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Jesus, people will submit anything for points now
Apart from your comment, it would appear.
This strategy is how I imagine the "least painful" transition from init to systemd in a distro would go: someone would make the change, tell everyone to update, and then ask if anyone noticed.
But then you'd go to add / remove / change an init script and realize that the world had been completely changed underneath you.
And your personalized init scripts, for applications not available in the repositories or for applications you want launched in a different way... would just break.

I feel like on bootup you'd realize that your work was broken.

I was thinking about this and I guess _maybe_ if you didn't customize anything during boot/init it would work from your distro's install...very golden path thinking there...
That actually sounds like the most painful transition possible as scripts would start failing and admins couldn't use their tools anymore. Would be entertaining to watch though.
Linux users tend to be aware of update contents. They read the changelogs, review the list of packages that will be updated, etc.

I've been using a mac at my new job, and a dialog box popped up today asking if I wanted to update. The options were something like "Not now" and "Update all". How am I supposed to know if I want to update if I don't even know what's going to be updated?

The App Store's "Updates" tab shows which apps are getting updated, and can even show build notes.
Click on the text box (not on the buttons) and it will bring up the update software and let you know what it wants to update.
That would be like if Kraft replaced the macaroni with nails without mentioning it, and then later asked if anyone noticed.
Well, some of us connoisseurs we're prepared for this change since 2013:

  http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/11/01/242412024/kraft-dims-that-mac-and-cheese-artificially-orange-glow
This isn't as radical a transition as "New Coke", and we haven't had to raid stores to build a stockpile like we did in the early 80s.
For people who don't know the "New Coke" story, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMxXw9TeE4 is an interesting watch.

Americans take their soda very seriously (or at least did in the 80s). It makes the hoo-ha over Kraft buying Cadbury, a British staple similar to how Coke is/was an American one, and the changes they made since (some of them within days of the purchase despite having promised the government otherwise to get the deal to go ahead) look like a storm in a tea-cup.

Interesting idea, I guess a tech comparison would be revamping the server side code considerably but not making an announcement so users wouldn't think they had to be on the lookout for bugs / quirks that weren't originally present. If you test well you could 100% overhaul the back end with not a single end user the wiser. I suppose if you announced a "major overhaul" scheduled for some time then users may be wary or hesitant to engage with the platform thinking hat they should expect intermittent outages or broken features.
I've done this, went from a Windows Server C# based backend to Linux servers with a completely new backend in Java. Nothing changed on the frontend and no announcement, some users gave feedback that the application seemed snappier though but they were never aware of what happened "under the hood".
I don't remember new Pepsi, but new Coke had a huge backslash which lead to pulling the product off the market, reversing back to original formula. And if I remember correctly, this original Coke, dubbed Coca-Cola Classic saw much better sales than the same coke did before that. Making people wonder if the new coke fiasco wasn't intentional.
They didn't actually use the original formula. They used the opportunity to switch from Cane sugar to Corn Syrup. Since people didn't have the ability to taste the difference any more, no one noticed. This let them cut the cost of a major ingredient which then translated into profit. They gained a LOT more from the failed product.
And decades later, we all still talk about it. Classic Coke is so awesome that it cannot be changed because EVERYBODY WILL REVOLT!

Achieving that level of mythos about a product is an astonishing accomplishment.

They revolt if they know its happening. Even today Coke has lots of different recipes. A bottle is very different from a fountain machine at a restaurant for instance. And folks don't get out the torches and pitchforks.
Yeah, I don't see how it's possible for all fountains to get the exact same syrup and gas concentrations. Especially with ice and temperature also being factors.
> don't see how it's possible

It could be computerized pretty easily, it's just not.

They use different sweeteners in bottled Diet Coke and fountain Diet Coke. Bottled Diet Coke uses aspartame, while fountain uses a combination (one being AceK, can't remember the other(s)).
I want to contrast this with your (!) earlier comment:

> Maybe they [Kraft] worried too much. Even though the change was written on the box, nobody noticed or commented. That's how much people cared.

I agree with the comment I'm responding to; I think Kraft was completely correct to worry, for exactly the reason you state here.

But it played out differently here. Kraft mentioned it; nobody blinked. They made the change and marked it on the box; nobody commented. That's a very different result than Coke's experience.
And I think we can attribute that to the strategy Kraft used to specifically avoid what happened to Coke. What if Kraft had made the change and announced it?
The switch to HFCS started 5 years before New Coke. Some bottlers were already using only HFCS at the time New Coke happened.
The switch happened here like two years ago (or less), and I couldn't notice any difference. But I don't drink Coke more than once or twice per month, so perhaps that helped me (to not notice the change).
The sweetener isn't part of the Coca-Cola formula (or more specifically, isn't part of the Coca-Cola concentrate). Coca-Cola provides unsweetened concentrate to independent bottlers, and the bottlers add high fructose corn syrup, sugar, or both during the bottling process. Some US Coca-Cola bottlers still only use sugar for sweetener.
No, but the formula needs to be adjusted for different sweeteners in order to keep the same final flavor.
Ahh, that's interesting. I remember Coke (KO) bought out the US distribution/bottling from Coca Cola Enterprises (CCE) in 2010 but Wikipedia says 5-10% of US Coke is still bottled by a handful of independent bottlers.

Allegedly, Kosher For Passover Coke (which should be available soon if not already) uses sugar.

> Coca-Cola Classic saw much better sales than the same coke did before that. Making people wonder if the new coke fiasco wasn't intentional.

They're not that dumb, and they're not that smart.

Pepsi changed the formula for Diet Pepsi in Aug 2015. The change was mainly to remove the aspartame and substitute Splenda. Some folks are very unimpressed.
I just bought many cases of the new Diet Pepsi with sucralose after learning of this change. I found the protests regarding the change from aspartame to sucralose to be hilarious: in my opinion Diet Pepsi used to be the worst tasting Pepsi and the move to sucralose seems to have improved the flavor considerably AFAICT.
> new Coke had a huge backslash

Sadly no appropriate MS-DOS jokes come to mind

Rambling ahead: the spot occupied by \ is the ¥ mark on Japanese keyboards. I mention it because a Windows 98 toaster I used for Myspace and transferring songs to my iPod displayed paths like this: C:¥foo¥bar¥. Which reminds me of another adventure:

The Japanese keyboard I use requires pressing shift to get a tilde (the tilde spot is occupied by a key to switch input methods on some keyboards and nothing on others).

Tilde opens the console in Doom 3, and it didn't like having it on a shifted character, and there was no way of rebinding the key. Long story short, I had to change the key in the source and recompile it to something else. Thanks id for open sourcing your games :-)

That's cool, I remember the yen signs. I lived in Japan for a while and studied Japanese but have never used an actual Japanese keyboard (just various IMEs over the years). What keyboard do you use?

[/guy who was just modding NIBBLES.BAS yesterday]

I mainly use the small Apple keyboards, which are the OADG 109 key layout minus the numpad.

Symbols are in different places compared to overseas keyboards (@ is to the right of P and doesn't require pressing shift, and ctrl and caps lock are swapped). It's not a problem except with old or lazy apps that expect them to be in a certain places, like my DOOM3 example.

There are a bunch of different Japanese layouts actually, a Japanese company makes keyboards with blank caps so you can use which ever one you like:

http://www.pfusystems.com/embedded-keyboard/hhkb/index.html

There is kana input, but I have yet to meet someone who uses that instead of an IME. I see a lot of people using it on their phones, though.

I'm fairly certain this change came to Canada first but unlike the USA, it was announced. Kraft launched a new version of Kraft Dinner (what you Yanks call "Mac and Cheese") with the preservatives replaced by natural things last year. I thought it tasted fine and was happy that it's even a little healthier.
Maybe the preservatives were better for you ;)
There was a change.org petition by "Food Babe" to get this changed due to a lot of bunk arguments. Replacing a tiny amount of a very common food dye is not going to affect the healthiness in any substantial way.
Food Babe: "When your body is in the air, at a seriously high altitude, your body under goes some serious pressure. Just think about it – Airplanes thrive in places we don’t. You are traveling in a pressurized cabin, and when your body is pressurized, it gets really compressed!"

That line from one of her articles sums up her thought process perfectly.

I agree that Food Babe makes a lot of rather silly arguments "That ingredient in Subway bread is also used in car tires!", etc. but she has drawn attention to some unnecessary additive choices (like 4-Mel in Starbucks pumpkin spice lattes), which I think is helpful. Even if the additive is not harmful, as a consumer, it's good to have more knowledge about what Starbucks puts in their drinks.

Having watchdogs like the Food Babe keeps companies a bit more on their toes about the health impacts of their additives than they would be otherwise.

A broken watch is right twice a day.
And why is that an unnecessary additive? Is it actually harmful?

A quick google seems to indicate that is just the same inciteful(note: not insightful) nonsense to get page views.

Not to mention the fact that she is targeting a drink where the primary ingredient(s) are actually bad for you in the quantities they are served in unless you are already following a fairly well-balanced diet.

It is insane to single out minutiae that are orders of magnitude less impactful than the huge sugar bomb that is the core of the food/beverage.

> she has drawn attention to some unnecessary additive choices

Most ingredients are unnecessary. Nothing useful about picking random ones to complain about on that basis alone.

> Even if the additive is not harmful, as a consumer, it's good to have more knowledge about what Starbucks puts in their drinks.

In theory it's always good to learn things. In practice there is limited time throughout the day, and a popular enough food blog about harmless additives gets in the way of people trying to find out about harmful additives.

>Having watchdogs like the Food Babe keeps companies a bit more on their toes about the health impacts of their additives than they would be otherwise.

No it doesn't. It keeps them on their toes about ~spooky~ ingredients, and more likely to pick natural ingredients even when they are inferior or worse for you than artificial ones.

... and this is why people with severe allergies always always always read the ingredients list, even if the packaging has not changed. And always carry emergency medication.
I feel like that kind of comparison is a good candidate for a side project. Take picture, OCR, compare to old list, turn red if it's different
Would be a cool app project. "Scan" each label as you put it in your cart, and see if it rejects it or not
The problem is, the ingredients can change without the UPC code changing. You would need manufacturers to purchase and use unique UPC codes for each version of their food formulations.
Neither parent nor grandparent references UPC. Grandparent references the list of ingredients.
Sorry about that! I didn't assume someone would suggest having a mobile device OCR an ingredients label, versus looking up a UPC code tied to an ingredients list and groking for your allergies.

One is easy, the other is hard.

OCR isn't that hard, just expensive. You do a first pass with an algorithm, and then use Mechanical Turk to correct for errors.
> One is easy, the other is hard.

There are APIs and libraries for OCR, so that might not be so bad (even on a mobile device). A low-end phone is faster than the first PCs I did OCR on anyhow, and about 20 years more research has gone into algorithms.

You wouldn't even need to scan labels per se, you could just take a picture of the box and identify the food item that is the largest in the FOV.

If your ingredients data is getting stale, you could reward users with coupons for stale-data items, so some users will take pictures of the ingredients list (kind of a 'bounty' list). You could do this for new items too - e.g. a popup after the picture is taken saying you can get $0.50 off if you take a picture of the UPC and ingredients list. Do a visual diff on the ingredients photo to see if the they have changed, and if so, OCR it to the database.

Do the manufacturers change the UPC code when they update the ingredient lists? I doubt it. It's still technically the same item (and probably the same internal SKU too).
Nope, but for new items in the database or if packaging changes drastically, you would need the UPC to join the update with previous data.
If anyone actually starts this project, be sure to record two more data points:

- price of product

- food mass of product

Those vary invisibly all the time, and it'd be great to have a record of it.

And records the congolmerate that actually owns the brand.

So many food brands are now just meaningless words in someone's brand portfolio. Especially silly when the two main competitors for an item turn out to now be owned by the same parent and rationalised to be made in the same factory.

They get traded around like football cards.

And also get a very, very good insurance. Bugs in such an app can kill people.
It could be covered in the TOS.
Since this is about OCR'ing the ingredient lists, I think that it would be much more likely to have false mismatches than false matches.
I worked on an idea/project a couple years ago to OCR prices off of shelves in grocery stores. Basically you could scan an isle in Safeway and have a geo-based price list of grocery goods.

After talking to people about it though, it became apparent that most grocery shoppers already have an idea of where they are going to buy groceries, making location more important than price. It's a razor thin industry, and even the price-sensitive coupon-using folks almost always just go to the closest Safeway equivalent.

Well, if Hershey bars lose a few grams as a stealth price increase at one store, they're going to lose them at every store. What you're talking about is orthogonal to what I'm talking about.
Since I've discovered I've had celiac (the real deal) ~6 years ago, I've read a lot more ingredient labels than I used to, and I can vouch for the fact that food formulations change more than you'd expect without fanfare. For all that you might find "gluten free!" splattered all over a lot of things, I can tell you there have also been a lot of foods that have silently gone gluten-free over the years, along with trying to minimize their use of the other major allergens.

This includes even very big name brands, such as Doritos. For a long time, Doritos was gluten free in nearly all of its flavors except its "default" Nacho Cheese flavor. Suddenly and silently, it went gluten free. I don't know exactly when because I wasn't looking. I was actually trying to show someone that only that flavor had the wheat in it, except the bag went and contradicted my claim. I may have missed it but I don't think they ever publicized it, or if they did, it wasn't much. (Contrast, for instance, Corn Chex which has talked about being gluten free on its box now for years after it changed.)

Imitation crab meat is another example; it has gone from reliably containing wheat, to unreliably being gluten free depending on brand, to what appears to be converging on generally not containing wheat, just in the past few years. I'll still be checking labels for a while on that one, though.

(And before the inevitable commenter pops up: The things that I do not know whether they contain wheat are, pretty much by definition, the highly-processed foods high in refined carbs, so my examples have a selection bias in that direction. I do not eat either of the things I mention often or in quantity. But I'm not always 100% in charge of my food environment and it is nice at someone else's party to be able to eat something sometimes.)

I can tell you there have also been a lot of foods that have silently gone gluten-free over the years, along with trying to minimize their use of the other major allergens.

Good find!

But as have been indicated here http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35727244 , this may be counterproductive.

You're conflating disease and allergy.
Disease, allergy and sensitivity.

My friend has celiac, my co-worker is mildly allergic to wheat, I'm sensitive to gluten.

Too much gluten makes me gassy so I avoid large quantities, but that's pretty much it. My co-worker breaks out in hives. My friend is in for a world of hurt.

Possibly so. My gluten sensitivity is worse than my father's. Why? Environment? Different genes having slightly different effects? Heck if I know.

But at this point in my life, it also no longer matters for me. It is certainly the case that I must avoid gluten now. And, alas, to the extent that it matters for my children, they're almost certainly also going to be biologically-grown-up before we have any solid answers either. In the meantime I just do my best for them.

That is not how Celiac works. It is an Auto-Immune Disease
This is not about Celiac but about larger trend. Somewhat similar to mass usage of antibiotics.
I have a diabetic friend who has problems with this - Tesco does a mixed beans in tomato sauce that I liked and recommended to him, and he checked it out and it was low enough in sugar for him.

Later, it jumped, and he was upset about the change, and contacted Tesco - turns out they change the mix for each batch based on the price of certain beans - if the sweeter beans are more expensive, they put in more of the others and add more sugar to try and keep the taste consistent, while keeping costs low.

It makes sense, but it is a pain for people with dietary restrictions (or just those trying to track their intake accurately).

If they're keeping the taste consistent, shouldn't the total amount of sugar stay roughly the same? It seems like the only thing that would change is how much of the sugar comes from beans versus granulated sugar.
There are many different sugars. They all vary in how sweet we perceive them and how they affect blood-glucose (and how fast).
> Since I've discovered I've had celiac (the real deal)

Do people pretend to have celiacs? God why?

The "real deal" for gluten sensitivity. Also wanted to head off "are you sure you're sensitive to gluten? there's a lot of questions about that in medicine right now" questions. Yes, I have the one that's definitely medically real. I wish it were just my imagination. :-/ (Or, alternatively, that I had found out ~25 years earlier.)
Not necessarily. They are trying to be "health conscience". Sugar-free diet! Fat-free diet! Both arguably good, healthier diets to have.

Then you get people who reason themselves into "Gluten-free!" must be a good thing! I blame the "____-free" moniker often being related to "healthier for you" diets. People will seek out "gluten-free" and there have been cases of restaurants serving "gluten-free" food that wasn't actually "gluten-free".

I've heard a number of cases from actual gluten sensitive individuals who have a love/hate relationship with this fad.

1) More gluten-free things to choose from! Yay!

2) More "gluten-free" things that can potentially kill them, causing them to have to be even more careful than they already were with what they choose to eat! Boo!

I get the gluten-free craze; are people seriously suggesting they have celiacs when they avoid gluten? It's easily tested for and basically impossible to ignore.
In many cases companies are not advertising "gluten free" as it may require additional tests and certifications which cost extra money and extra effort, especially smaller companies avoid these unless it's really important for their brand.
Isn't doing this illegal? Since it makes people think they're buying the same product they always have but it has actually changed.

At least in Brazil, every time the formula of a product, or the quantity in the package, is changed, companies have to disclose that on the packaging.

It was disclosed on the packaging.
not the fact of the change itself
Then how come they only "announced" it now? Unless the disclosure was very discreet, I'd count it as an announcement.
This is thoroughly explained in the article.
It is disclosed in the packaging. They just didn't do a big promotion prior to the change.
When you say "disclose that on the packaging," do you mean something more than just changing the list of ingredients printed on the package?

Here, the packaging must describe the contents and that description must be accurate, so changes must be reflected there. But nothing requires them to say "hey, we changed this" beyond changing the nutritional information, which most people don't pay attention to.

And it's worth noting this is one of those places where the technicalities kill it. How major a change is needed to trigger a 'formula changed' warning? The reality is lots of products these days change on a batch-by-batch basis to reduce costs or use what is available.

Legislation forcing companies to disclose that something has changed in a more noticable (less specific) way, would no doubt just result in those warnings always being there, making them just as useless (I mean, maybe you could say 'new formula as of <date>', but again, people are probably just going to ignore it with that much detail).

I feel like a decent compromise would be requiring a date of last change along with the ingredients list on the back. That way people with particular concerns can just check that to know whether anything has changed without having to carefully check the whole list every time.
Do all those batches have customized nutritional information and ingredient lists? If those are the same, then the variations on the formula don't matter.

I think having the year+month of the last recipe change would work perfectly fine. If you care what the ingredients are, it's very easy to notice. Much better than 'new'. The goal is not to force anyone to care. The goal is to have information be convenient. Scouring the entirety of the nutritional info is not convenient. And adding the date is a minimal burden to the company.

Yes, they do - I know of at least one case where they make large changes to the sugar content in a product based on costs at the time.
Yes, in Brazil AFAIK the law involve more than, let's say, listing it somewhere in the back in small print. You actually need to visually shout it out, think bold letters in white on a red background, occupying a sixth of the height of a can, for a canned good, for example.

If a reasonable person who's not paying attention doesn't notice it, it's not enough.

Having multiple allergies that can kill me, I always read the ingredients, and even check online.

For example, ice-cream manufacturers make ice-cream with peanuts in it on the same line as everything else. However, because they clean it between runs it's supposedly fine, and wont list it... It's all good until I have a reaction and have no idea why.

If you have allergies it's a great reason to learn to cook your own food. As said, you should also always carry and EpiPen and other drugs.

> If you have allergies it's a great reason to learn to cook your own food

Yes, but they may severely limit your life-choices, and it also defeats the purpose of ingredient labelling (if you can't rely on it).

I think this story is actually a pretty incredible one. Just logistically it's a very interesting story that they were able to keep their collective corporate mouth shut--and even though it seems they're gearing up to milk the marketing effort now, that they did this without immediate payout in terms of brand marketing is surprising. And it's not like we're talking about a processed food brand with a million variants on the shelf either--we're talking an iconic, one-note Kraft dinner.

I'd inquire about the taste, if it's any different, etc, but I haven't had Kraft in, uh, a long ass time.

It wasn't a secret, it was fully announced it just didn't have a media blitz associated with it. For example, it was reported on in the Washington Post[1].

1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/2...

That agrees with the OP. Still, its not 'fully announced' if they don't have a 'media blitz' - its called a soft launch. In the end almost nobody remembered it was going to happen; almost nobody noticed.
That raises questions about how much a company would have to do to qualify as a media blitz.
It was semi announced that they planned on changing the recipe but at the time of the announcement that had not happened yet. It did no roll out until December and they did not announce that.

Of course from the articled submitted they said people were already saying that could taste the difference before the change was ever made.

It tastes of butter, salt, and poverty, same as always.
In the 80s, we always referred to it as "reganomics" as in "oh no, not reganomics for dinner again!"

I seem to recall a massive cheese redistribution campaign back then. And ketchup being declared a vegetable for purposes of school lunches.

Maybe they worried too much. Even though the change was written on the box, nobody noticed or commented. That's how much people cared.
This was pretty genius! I'm looking forward to trying the "new formula" even though it won't taste any different haha
Plot Twist: They haven't actually changed anything and will silently roll out the REAL change 6 months from now.

(Not really. But that'd be a cool story too.)

Are Kraft and Mondelez the same company? They now own British chocolate company Cadbury and have received a lot of criticism for changing recipes there (amongst other things). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/features/7-ways-ca...
Mondelez bought kraft iirc.
It went something like this - my memory is a little hazy as this happened a few years ago: Kraft at the time owned Nabisco and had all of it's "snack" brands under the Nabisco umbrella. Mondelez and Kraft merged and then split all the "snack" brands off under Mondelez (this included Cadbury because Kraft had already taken them over). Then 3G capital came in and merged Kraft and Heinz and spun Mondelez completely off into its own company - all the Cadbury/Nabisco brands are under the Mondelez umbrella and Kraft/Heinz has the non-snack stuff.
Kraft renamed themselves Mondelez after spinning off grocery brands who now use the Kraft name - Philadelphia cheese etc.

Mondelez are well on the way to destroying the Cadbury brand here.

One of the things Kraft made a big deal of during the takeover was promising to keep a particular UK plant open. 7 days after finalisation they announced the plant's closure.

Creme Eggs are now revolting, It's not even Cadbury choclate any more, but some sugary cheap fake chocolate. Being egg shaped, they were commonly sold in packs of 6, now sold in 5s - same price. They're also markedly smaller.

They've fiddled with most products, generally made them noticeably worse, and shrunk the sizes of nearly everything.

I buy other makes these days.

Bear in mind that British Cadbury's, after reformulation, is still better than American Cadbury's.

Chicago may be the candy capital of the world, but let's just say that not all innovation in confectionery is to the ultimate good of the consumer. I don't know how, exactly, it has come to this, but I believe many of the chocolate-like products sold in the US are now labeled as "chocolate candy", as they no longer even meet any of the American legal definitions for chocolate.

It makes it really easy to adhere to a low-sugar diet when all the "chocolate" around you is junk.

Be glad if your chocolate still has actual cocoa butter in it, instead of coconut oil, palm oil, palm kernel oil, or shea butter. Or even sunflower or safflower oils!

I remember trying Hershey's chocolate on my first trip to the US, not expecting quite how nasty it was.
According to Wikipedia, they transitioned from chocolate (which legally in the US must only contain cocoa butter fats) to "cocoa-flavored", which can contain less or no cocoa butter and includes cheaper fats such as vegetable oil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadbury_Creme_Egg#Changes_to_p... http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-may19apr19-story.html

That would explain why the texture is wrong then. Best word I can find is "slimy", and is too sweet which is quite an achievement in a product that's 80% fondant.
Cadbury's chocolate now reminds me of the stuff I used to find in cheap advent calendars and low end pick 'n' mix.
Canadians are anxiously awaiting the shipping of Kraft Klassic :)
I actually noticed a couple of months ago that it now takes 5-6 minutes to cook instead of ~4 to get the same consistency. That threw me off since I am the primary mac&cheese maker for my kids.
Whoever thought of this must be a parent. This is brilliant, and exactly like changes you make when you feed picky eaters (and they probably know that they are a staple food for picky eaters).
Having young children, there's almost always a box of macaroni and cheese in the house.

My kids, who fancy themselves mac & cheese connoisseurs, started complaining about the taste of Kraft a couple of months ago.

So now when Kraft advertises on TV that they changed their mac & cheese and nobody noticed, my eight- and six-year-old just roll their eyes. I suppose the upside is, they're already learning that you can't believe advertising.

My wife and kid are pretty happy with Annie's. Might be worth trying if you're looking for another brand. (The only stuff I eat these days is homemade, typically gruyère-based, but we keep Annie's on hand in case we don't have leftovers for lunch.)
>The only stuff I eat these days is homemade, typically gruyère-based

Bravo.

created: 5 minutes ago :-(
I've never been all that impressed by Annies (weirdly enough, I remember this being a view bordering on heresy when I was in college...), it struck me as being too expensive and too fussy to make. Adult-Kraft dinner is too easy to make - substitute real macaroni, and cheddar instead of the florescent orange cheese dust, same milk and butter. I mix in some American slices or Velveeta-esque process cheese, since I think that gives it a little better consistency, but you can leave that out if you have an abhorrence for tasty, jello-like cheese products.

My guilty pleasure is a big bowl of mac and cheese, with cubed fried Spam mixed in.

You can buy an emulsifier and add that directly (sodium citrate).

Sodium citrate mac cheese is enough to Google for.

You can also just buy the powder by itself, King Arthur Flour sells a white cheddar that's pretty good.
I second this, although I buy from Nuts since I can get it by the pound. There are other bulk distributors out there as well, although the quality does vary. Pick the one you like best!

White cheddar powder is also great if you want to make a cheese sauce with a roux base reasonably quickly and for some reason don't want to use shredded cheese (I usually use both, however, but it is faster with a powder).

Here's some of the ones I use:

https://nuts.com/cookingbaking/powders/cheddar-cheese.html

https://nuts.com/cookingbaking/powders/white-cheddar-cheese....

Looks interesting, but way, way too fussy. I really don't understand why people make macaroni and cheese recipes so complicated, with the cream sauces and baking it and all that. It's incredibly easy and delicious if you just boil the pasta, strain it, throw it back in the pot, then chuck in butter, a little bit of milk, and cheese, and simmer until the cheese melts. Literally the Kraft dinner directions, just with real ingredients.
I think you could use it in that recipe; the sodium citrate will keep the cheese from separating and help it mix with the butter.
Adding sodium citrate to a cheese sauce is the best way I've found of making it less fussy. It's literally like pixie dust - you sprinkle some into some water, melt some cheese in the water, and bam: smooth, creamy cheese sauce with no chance of it separating.
http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/silky-smooth-macaroni-an...

This is supremely unfussy. Best part is the cheese sauce reheats perfectly. The final result is creamy and can be made with any cheese on hand to taste. (Smoked Gouda is astoundingly good)

Your instructions above is my "bachelor version", but grating some cheese into water with sodium citrate while the pasta water is coming to a boil is ridiculously easy and will produce an actual sauce, unlike the melted globs of cheese produced in the bachelor version.

>too fussy to make

1. boil water

2 stir in pasta, cook 8-10 minutes

3 strain pasta

4 add 3 Tbsp of milk

5 sprinkle cheese powder

6 add pasta and combine

[1]

And from kraft its:

1 boil water, stir in pasta, cook 8-10 minutes

2 drain, return to pan

3 add milk, butter, cheese powder and combine [2]

Its the exact same process either way.

Are you saying you buy kraft dinner boxes and then use only the macaroni noodles (making the rest of the macaroni and cheese from scratch)? Why dont you just buy a box of macaroni noodles?

[1] http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lVBCtTygO2g/Ufavcs5SauI/AAAAAAAAAd...

[2] http://northsouthfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/info1.j...

Maybe the parent post had tried making a rice noodle version? Rice noodles[1] can be a bit more finicky than wheat noodles in my experience[2].

[1] The "Italian pasta made with rice" versions. I'm not talking about Asian rice noodles.

[2] The rice noodles tend to give off more starch into the water and you need more water to make them. If you don't have enough water, then it gets super starchy in the pot and easily boils over (and can -- seemingly -- take longer to cook, the starchier the water is).

I don't think that' what he was saying at all. He said he does use real noodles, and was just calling his homemade version "Adult-Kraft".
Pretty sure he means: Buy your macaroni in bulk, and just shred a half cup or so of cheddar to stir in with the milk/butter.

Prep is the same, but it's actually cheaper to make.

When I made Annies for the kids my "secret" was to whisk the cheese powder in the milk. It made it much more creamy.
I was raised on Velveeta but eventually the taste of corroded metal and my awareness of frankenfood got to me and I stopped buying the stuff. Luckily I discovered Colby Jack, which as far as legitimate cheeses go is closest in mouth feel and flavor to what Velveeta tries to be. It's awesome for toasted cheese sandwiches.

Not salty enough for mac and cheese though. I've tried adding salt, or garlic salt, or parmesean, or a mix of the three. I haven't perfected it yet.

> if you have an abhorrence for tasty, jello-like cheese products

I have an abhorrence for horrible tasting, jello-like cheese products. Are there any that taste good.

(comment deleted)
I keep saying to myself that I need to go to one of those world food sections at my local supermarket and buy a box of Kraft Mac and Cheese to try it,but I always forget - is it really worth it?
It's only worth it to see what people mean when they talk about it. It's not particularly yummy in and of itself.
It's nothing special on it's own, but if you want to get crazy with it, throw a can of tuna in it as you mix in the cheese. And some onion. And a little bit of pepper. And if you love bacon, some bacon bits. It turns it into a very full inexpensive meal and it is super tasty.
At that point, you may as well make the cheese sauce yourself.
And then bake it in the oven.

Casserole!

Like most processed foods -- did you grow up with it? If not, then you probably won't like it compared to "real food."
> is it really worth it?

The main advantage of packet-mac-and-cheese is convenience, compared to laboring over a stove to make a smooth roux.

I used to take a couple of packets with me when bicycle-camping but I can't say that I enjoyed them. They 'fill a hole' as we say here.

If you are paying more than the equivalent of US$1 per box, no.

Kraft Mac & Cheese is the spiritual equivalent of top ramen noodles, artificial cheese flavor.

There is no intrinsic American cultural value to it. Many of us do grant it some nostalgia value, because we grew up without a lot of money, and it was, and still is, cheap and filling food for poor people. A suitable protein accompaniment is a can of chunk light tuna (solid albacore is for rich folks), hot dogs (aka frankfurters) cut into coin-sized slices, diced bologna slices, Spam, or a hard-boiled egg. To drink, mix up some unsweetened Kool-Aid with 3/4 the ordinary amount of added sugar. If you are feeling flush this month, you may also have a slice of dry white toast with some leftover schmaltz on it.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=266230936

Looks like it's ~$3 for a pack on this side of the pond.

That's got an "Imported by" name and so on — I suspect it's sold in the foreign foods section, along with other American novelties.

The more traditionally British options are probably these:

1) In a can: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=252750031

2) Cheese sauce: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=258436291

3) As a ready meal / microwave meal: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=272971891

But I'm more amused by the "Tesco Easy Entertaining Macaroni Cheese 1.4 Kilograms". Is it still necessary to thank the cook, if served this at a party? http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=291659455

It's actually an English recipe.

Here is an 1859 version of the recipe, from Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management.

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10136/pg10136-images.htm...

And here's the original, from 1786 in The Experienced English Housekeeper: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.rsmcze;view=1up;se...

Those are just recipes for macaroni and cheese. Macaroni and Cheese has little to no relation to Kraft Mac & Cheese in practice.
Kraft Mac & Cheese bears little resemblance to anything you might achieve at home using your pantry staples and a recipe book. That is, unless you have an industrial-sized pasta extruder at home, and standing orders for sodium citrate and annatto coloring by the ton.

It cleverly evokes the idea of better food, so that what you are actually eating seems somehow less disappointing. There are other brands that reproduce more faithfully the concept of the original recipe, but they may cost 2-5 times as much as Kraft's.

Also, a box of Kraft Mac & Cheese can be prepared in one saucepan on one stove burner or hot plate in less than 15 minutes, spent mostly waiting for the water to boil, whereas "real" macaroni and cheese recipes may involve cheese graters, pasta strainers, multiple saucepans, and maybe even a casserole dish and time in the oven. This point may be important if you have to feed your kids quickly after school, before going to your second job, as many heads of household in the U.S. are required to do in order to fund the monthly budget. (The kids might be able to eat both breakfast and lunch at their schools, depending on the relative affluence of the neighborhood.)

> There is no intrinsic American cultural value to it

Of course not, Kraft Dinner is the national dish of Canada.

I've started making our own (just macaroni and melted cheese) with my kids. It tastes better, but the one thing we haven't been able to replicate is the bright orange color.
That's a totally different food. It's not comparable (whether it tastes better or not is subjective, of course). I like all kinds of mac & cheese, from Kraft to the super fru-fru fancy stuff, and also just pasta with melted cheese. But you can't compare them directly.
The bright orange is annatto.

On a personal note, I find the color to be nauseous.

Me too - somehow the kids like it though. And anything brown or green gets labeled as Mud.
My mother's recipe has completely ruined US-style mac and cheese for me. I get it, this isn't snobbery: I know it's a phenomenal comfort food and it's a trivially easy, un-refusable kid fuel that I regularly use to silence my screaming younglings, but I just can't enjoy it personally.

Her recipe goes something like this, E&OE, bit fuzzy on quantities, but dear Lord it's delicious:

Get your macaroni boiling away.

Then in a separate saucepan:

Couple tablespoons of butter.

Melt that.

Tablespoon of white flour.

Tablespoon of Coleman's mustard powder.

Incorporate gradually, stirring until it's smooth paste.

Milk (I forget how much, I know how much to pour, like a mug's worth?)

Add slowly, keep stirring, keep smooth.

Sufficient grated cheddar cheese, I like about 50% mature, 50% lighter, put about half in.

Same, keep it smooth.

Season around about now.

Stir in the macaroni, getting all the goo worked in.

Stir in a large tin of whole plum tomatoes.

Keep stirring, get it all even.

Transfer to a baking dish.

Put the remaining cheese on top.

Heat in an oven, 350f, 45m I think just get it hot and melty.

Brown under the broiler to get awesome caramelized crispy cheese top.

Serve with lettuce so you don't feel like a total fat bastard (actually the ice cold crunch is a great complement).

Sleep.

I'm more than a little surprised it's so successful. Macaroni & cheese barely takes any longer to make properly than to warm up a pan of bought.

OK, add a few mins if you want to grill it with cheese topping, which improves it no end :)

There's a decent amount of effort involved in making a roux base for a cheese sauce compared to squeezing a packet of cheese-product into a pan. It's not a huge effort, but it's still there if you aren't accustomed to cooking much more than frozen meals and prepackaged food.
You can't leave 8 pans of prepared Macaroni & cheese in your pantry for when you need them.
I doubt there's a soccer mom in the world who didn't know this had happened already; my wife had been expecting it for months when it finally switched.

Other manufacturers are doing similar things. In fact, Trix Cereal has quietly switched away from artificial colors recently, and other General Mills "kids" cereals are expected to follow suit soon.

Glad to see Craig Kilborn getting some work.
Do they still put Milk Protein Concentrate in it?
We did the same thing at reddit when we upgraded the search system.

First we put a little survey on every search result that said "Are you satisfied with these results? yes/no". After we collected enough data, we changed the entire search backend out, but told no one.

After a few months of collecting data showing the satisfaction go from ~70% to ~90%, we made a blog post explaining what we did.

Here's the real kicker though that makes it different from Kraft -- we didn't say that we had done it months ago, so we kept getting comments about how it was "so much better this week vs. last week".

We did that a few times. When we moved the site to EC2, we announced it months after the fact, and people would claim to have noticed the "sudden change".

It's an interesting look into the human psyche.

Make no mistake about it, this is clearly a marketing ploy by Kraft's ad agency. They are battling the minds of consumers who are (as of recent) continually seeing companies change ingredients and then be marketed to because it's "preservatives are bad...now with less preservatives!", with an undesirable side effect of "hmmm, but it tastes different". Coke Zero is a great example of this effect.

I'm not so sure Reddit's system is that similar. Reddit had a serious issue with search functionality not reaching the desired effect, and was easily circumvented by using Google search directly on reddit.

In reddit's case it was about completing a task and reaching a goal ("I now can search for something and it works"), for Kraft this is about perception and desire ("This tastes good!").

> Make no mistake about it, this is clearly a marketing ploy by Kraft's ad agency.

Ad agencies doing marketing? Those bastards!

> In reddit's case it was about completing a task and reaching a goal ("I now can search for something and it works"), for Kraft this is about perception and desire ("This tastes good!").

That's a fair assessment in regards to the search example, but the move to EC2 example is completely analogous. If we had announced the change when it happened people would have said it was bad right away, but by announcing it after the fact we could point out that no one noticed until we said something (which we did in the comments after they said they noticed something).

If the change was actually good, why would people claim it was bad?

>If we had announced the change when it happened people would have said it was bad right away,

Because some people love to be contrarian/complain. Some people love being armchair experts on things.

It's the same thing every time some major website redesigns some feature - lots of consternation about how the new thing is so much worse and how this will spell the end of the website as we know it. Petitions to revert the change will be made, chain emails will be sent, the whole works.

And then a week later nobody remembers this even happened, and the website's numbers stay exactly where they are/go up.

Canonical example of this in my mind is Facebook. More recently when Twitter made "faves" into "hearts" - many a thinkpiece was written on Medium about this.

Yes, but by this logic, people will complain when you finally tell them, too.
I think the point is that by doing this you're undercutting the validity of the complaint. It feels more transparent that someone is complaining about the change after it having been explained to them when they clearly haven't noticed it in the preceding months.
It's like a reverse placebo effect. When something changes, people will start going over it with a fine-tooth comb. Some of the "flaws" that they might present as problems with the new system may well have existed with the old system, but they were just overlooked / forgotten.
You mentioned Coke Zero. I've often wanted a no-calorie unsweetened Coke flavored soda. I don't know enough about palate to know if something like that would even work, but I think a lot of the flavors I like about Coke aren't really the sweetness per se. I abhor all of the artificial sweeteners.
Try dumping a can of tuna into your Kraft™ Mac & Cheese. Delicious.
That's almost what I do when camping, but it's Annie's Organic Mac 'n Cheese and a foil pack of salmon. Tasty.
I also add a can of cream of mushroom soup. It was a staple when I was in college. I named it Mancaroni and tried to feed it to my three boys. They weren't buying it. There wasn't enough hot sauce or Old Bay in the house to get them to eat it. But I like it!
In addition to the tuna?
Yes. EDIT: It's condensed, and I don't add milk or anything. I believe this recipe was on the side of the box of Mac and Cheese at some point, probably long, long, ago.
Try dumping a can of tuna into your Kraft™ Mac & Cheese. Delicious.
This might (or might not) work for Kraft, but let me tell a cautionary tale. Those that hang on my every word have read me mention that I train dogs at the local animal shelter. Some dogs need to be taught how to be civilized members of society before adoption, so that's what my wife and I help with. Food is a great motivator, and we used to use these logs of dog food (Natural Balance, for those that care). Chop 'em up into tiny little cubes, makes a great and inexpensive training treat. Dogs love them.

Well, dogs used to love them. You see, Natural Balance changed their formula without telling anyone. I'm going to guess that the most common use for Natural Balance dog food is to make treats, not a meal for dogs. The new formula crumbles when you try to cut it, and here's the important part: dogs won't eat it. So Natural Balance dog food is no longer fit for the most common purpose I see in personal observation. No trainer, pro or amateur, that I know of uses it anymore. The hoity-toity major pet food chain in Seattle no longer carries it.

No worries, Red Barn makes a tasty equivalent, so we use that now. But here's the kicker: even if Natural Balance pulled a Coca-Cola and put the old formula back, they've still lost us for an indefinite period (if not permanently). Why? Because we'd never know. We found an adequate substitute, Natural Balance is no longer on our radar, and it's not like The Dog Food Blog is in my RSS so I'd know when NB came to their senses.

One might get away with this with people food, as kids are more likely to bug Daddy with "but I want Kraft!" than a dog is to bug their handler with "What's this Red Barn crap? I want Natural Balance!" But if kids won't eat it, as implied by other comments, then Dad might try another brand, the kids love it even more than Kraft, and Kraft just falls off a family's radar. Because it seems to me that Kraft, as with Coke before them, assumes a brand loyalty that might or might not exist.