I would call it refreshingly quiet. I am not a fan of loud ICE engines in any vehicle. I do worry about the quietness of these vehicles and sight impaired pedestrians and distracted pedestrians. I wonder if there will be an adjustment period where car-pedestrian impacts increase until cars are autonomous enough to stop for those who step in front of a car, and/ or pedestrians realized they cannot rely on their hearing to monitor traffic at crosswalks.
This- The implication is that this technology would make it into road cars. I also realize this isnt a new problem. The article made a point of the volume level of these cars, which will be everyone's problem when/if electric cars are mainstream.
It's mostly a problem at lower speeds, where hybrids tend to run in electric mode and thus are just as silent as pure EVs. Which is to say, this problem has already been mainstream for years.
You both have it wrong. Both cars and pedestrians must remain alert and look carefully for the other. Anything less than that gets people killed unnecessarily. Trying to pin it on one or the other is just arguing over who should pay for the headstone.
I'm not talking about responsibility, I'm talking about what people need to do in order to increase the odds that everybody involved can die in bed. Responsibility is just the question of who pays for the funeral.
I went to the last season's final race in London. They are indeed significantly quieter than Formula 1 cars, but they're by no means silent. It's more of a not-uncomfortably-loud whining noise as the cars pass you.
Formula E has been pretty exciting to me since I first heard about it 2 years ago. I wonder if it will really ever become a mainstream event though - as Formula 1 and similar gradually involve more EV elements
Due to the relative quietness of the cars, the Formula E events usually involve background music, sometimes live from a DJ, usually electronic style music.
I watched the Battersea Park race on TV and I can't see it becoming popular - the mid-race car change (which admittedly may well disappear as technology evolves) was laughable and the whole "fan boost"[1] thing made even some of Bernie's more ridiculous suggestions seem sane.
[1] Fans vote on a driver who gets an extra speed boost in a race. Because Reasons.
In the old horse days in Europe (and presumably everywhere else too) lots of very nice houses were built next to roads. Nowadays as I drive past I pity them and the ugly sound-deflecting fencing and berms they have to invest in to make them habitable. I look forward to quieter cars rejuvenating these old houses.
This is a common misconception about roadway noise pollution.
Electric Vehicles will still generate a fair amount of road noise pollution. There will be important improvements for city quality of life, mostly in reductions in the sub 35kmh acceleration/deceleration moments. But for highway speeds the reductions will not be that big.
Check this interesting wikipedia article for reference.
Linking to the part that lists the basic variables that affect Roadway Noise:
I don't think it's entirely a misconception. Yes, some people mistakenly think that an all-EV world will be totally silent, and it won't, but the noise reduction is still huge. In most situations, the average is much less important than the maximum, so the fact that typical noise from modern cars is mostly tires and air is irrelevant. Trucks, motorcycles, and performance cars are what make up the bulk of the annoying noise, and EV versions of those would help a lot.
My house fronts on a 4 lane parkway. As soon as I wake up, I can tell whether or not the road out front is wet from the increased tire noise. (And indeed, we have a wooden fence of maximum legal height, set on top of some earthworks, and double-pane windows to cut the noise down to acceptable levels and I can still readily tell the difference.) The objectionable [to me] noise is mostly from tires.
Every so often, we get someone on a sport bike or sports car ripping along the parkway having some fun. That's very intermittent and far more often brings a smile to my face as I'm reminded that we can still do that...
Unfortunately electric cars won't solve that problem. The graph on http://www.leiserstrassenverkehr.bayern.de/laerm/entstehung/ (a German government website) compares the engine noise ("Antriebsgeräusch") with the tire noise ("Rollgeräusch") for different speeds ("Gesamtgeräusch" means "total noise"). The yellow line is for trucks, the blue lines for cars.
As you can see at a speed of 40 kph (25 mph) a car's tire noise is already higher than the engine noise and at even higher speed the engine noise doesn't really matter anymore. So even if your electric car engine is absolute silent, the total noise at speeds above 30 mph won't be all that different.
Indeed. The engine noise is relevant for Formula 1, however, because high-performance race cars generally have much louder engines than commercial cars.
Until they went for these bloody 6-cylinder turbos that the formula is using now. They're nowhere near as loud or as impressive as either the v8's of the 00's, or the v10's and v12's of before.
Even being televised, they've got to jack up the volume to try and make it seem more exciting.
These cars just look like some kind of Formula cars but there are some of important differences:
- first for now all cars are more or less the same (there's no research competition behind motors or aerodynamics like in WEC or F1)
- the race rules are not so meaningful to me: changing cars in the middle of the race doesn't add to the fun, why not doing 2 shorter races?
I see it as a minor low budget futurist racing series to exploit the "electric motors" trend in automotive.
Real investments go to WEC for technology or to F1 for PR and brand strength.
Things might change when teams will have the chance to customize their cars more (mainly motor, batteries)
Edit: they race in very nice locations anyway, that's the only cool thing about the series :p
This was true in the first season, but in season two the motor regulations opened up. Teams are now allowed to choose their own motor and gearbox, and there are (I think) about six variations in use. Packaging differences between the motors has led to some variation in rear suspension as well.
Aero, battery, and tires remain standard for all the teams.
Tangential, but I keep thinking that the moment EVs have finally "made" it will be when they can compete in endurance races like 24 Hours of Le Mans against IC vehicles.
The fact these Formula E races are considered quite enough to be run in populated areas is pretty sweet though. I've never attended a Motorsport event before, partly because I'd have to make a big effort to go out of town to watch any, instead of just staying local.
Quiet is not a great selling point. One of the big complaints in F1 right now is that the current spec engines are too quiet. The noise contributes hugely to the atmosphere and sense of speed.
Great selling point, except when you happen to live within earshot of a racetrack. Which is literally a radius of miles, easily enough to house half a million when you put the track in a densely populated area (which is increasingly rare, but still exists).
Funny paradox isn't it ? should we stop before it's too late ? or maybe we plan to rely on a climate catastrophe to set progress back to the Jurassic era.
This is in response to the video saying that the fans love the cars since they are almost quiet.
When I went to my first F1 grand prix, I could hear the sound of the cars from the parking lot. As a huge fan, that gave me goosebumps and got me excited. The sound is a huge plus, and all fans I know love it. Yeah you need to plug your ears when you are in the stands, but I would take that over the sound of these electric cars.
I think this has a lot of promise, but I think they haven't quite dialed in the format.
I think they should focus on battery swapping as the way to deal with limited energy capacity. It makes for a nice spectacle watching pit crews do their thing. Swapping out an entire car and driver is just boring. Likewise the constraint to be able to swap the battery packs quickly will necessarily lead to the cars looking a bit different than F1. I think that also would be an improvement and help them differentiate as more than just "like F1 but more quiet and slow."
The ability to run events almost anywhere is a huge opportunity. It could make for some really compelling video footage in some awesome locations, if they can negotiate it.
Courses should focus on short sections and tight turns. Acceleration is where electric motors are most exciting, and keeping top speeds below the 200mph+ of F1 would let them run smaller events with less safety buffer space. Let people get up close and see the cars rocket out of each corner.
I went to the Formula E Grandprix in Berlin last year. I am a pretty big F1 fan, watching most of the races and know whats going on but Forumla-E was actually pretty bland and boring, i believe mostly due to missing any kind of engine noise. It kind of feels like very fast soapboxes racing around (not nearly as fast as F1 though).
Same here. It has zero appeal for motorsport fans. Maybe there is some new audience for this in the future, but right now it's probably more about technology demonstration.
(I don't disagree with this being great technology, I would love to have quiet cities, what we do to the space we live in right now is an abomination in my view)
Just wondering, have you ever attended a F1 race in person? I ask because after watching WTCC for a long time, when I attended my first live race I found it pretty boring as well. Watching on TV allows me to follow the race, and I missed that a lot when attending live.
One issue with Formula E is that the city street courses are really boring race tracks.
If you look at the recordings from their pre-season "dress rehearsal" from Donington Park (available in YouTube), it was magnificent racing. Much better than any of the proper races they had.
There is work to be done to make Formula E interesting. I know I'll be watching RoboRace, but probably not the current season.
Are Formula E cars geared? Electric engines can deliver the same optimal torque throughout the RPM range, so is shifting involved? That's obviously an important part of the F1 drivers' skillset (especially during starts) so I'm curious if they just have work the brake and accelerator or also worry about gear changes.
Electric motors are usually torque limited (especially modern inverter driven ones), so they have a constant maximum torque throughout their speed range. However, this means that at higher speeds, they are able to deliver more power, so gearing is actually beneficial. Formula E cars have 5 gears.
There is a lot of work done to change the performance - ideally you'd actually not want flat torque, but high torque at low speed and lower at high speed to reduce the need for switchable gears. This is done with techniques like flux weakening.
In the first season they all had the same car with 5 gears. In the second season development has been allowed on the motor, inverter, and transmission and the teams have taken a number of different approaches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-KONybIQQA
I guess the engine speeds would become an issue at 100mph+. Even if theoretically you can get maximum torque at any speed, practical issues would arise if you ran electric motors at 100k rpm.
I couldn't really tell if that first kid liked cars or not. He certainly doesn't look that interested.
Here's how you get a kid to get interested in this kind of event. First, buy good earphones. Super important - it's incredibly loud. Next, go to a top fuel event.
If you are grown and haven't been to a top fuel drag race, I HIGHLY recommend you try it once. Once is enough to figure it out.
I watched Formula E in Florida and it sounded like a race of blenders :)
I also watched Formula 1 and I loved the sound of the engines. You can tell by the sound what the top engines are. It is just a whole other experience. You hear the car coming before you see it and that gets you excited.
I'm probably biased, being a Formula 1 fan for over 25 years.
Cars are limited to just 200hp during races, and FIA has blocked the teams from innovating much. It's almost as if it pains them to have electric racers that they made them bad on purpose. These things accelerate slower than a tesla family SUV.
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[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 130 ms ] threadIt's time enough. Unless you are blind, you should look both way before crossing. You shouldn't jaywalk anyway.
The car driver should be looking before proceeding, and should be driving slow enough to stop before any pedestrian.
Yes, that may mean driving through a residential area at 15 km/h. (Or even 10km/h: [1])
[1] https://collegegreensharedspace.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/...
The responsibility lies with the one vastly increasing the danger.
Formula E has been pretty exciting to me since I first heard about it 2 years ago. I wonder if it will really ever become a mainstream event though - as Formula 1 and similar gradually involve more EV elements
Due to the relative quietness of the cars, the Formula E events usually involve background music, sometimes live from a DJ, usually electronic style music.
[1] Fans vote on a driver who gets an extra speed boost in a race. Because Reasons.
UPDATE: so my hopes are dashed :(
I've done a lot of horse driving as a hobby and can attest to how loud it is, particularly metal rimmed wheels on cobble stones.
Electric Vehicles will still generate a fair amount of road noise pollution. There will be important improvements for city quality of life, mostly in reductions in the sub 35kmh acceleration/deceleration moments. But for highway speeds the reductions will not be that big.
Check this interesting wikipedia article for reference.
Linking to the part that lists the basic variables that affect Roadway Noise:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadway_noise#Description_of_b...
Every so often, we get someone on a sport bike or sports car ripping along the parkway having some fun. That's very intermittent and far more often brings a smile to my face as I'm reminded that we can still do that...
As you can see at a speed of 40 kph (25 mph) a car's tire noise is already higher than the engine noise and at even higher speed the engine noise doesn't really matter anymore. So even if your electric car engine is absolute silent, the total noise at speeds above 30 mph won't be all that different.
Even being televised, they've got to jack up the volume to try and make it seem more exciting.
Real investments go to WEC for technology or to F1 for PR and brand strength.
Things might change when teams will have the chance to customize their cars more (mainly motor, batteries)
Edit: they race in very nice locations anyway, that's the only cool thing about the series :p
Aero, battery, and tires remain standard for all the teams.
It's actually much closer to an Indycar, both built by Dallara.
The fact these Formula E races are considered quite enough to be run in populated areas is pretty sweet though. I've never attended a Motorsport event before, partly because I'd have to make a big effort to go out of town to watch any, instead of just staying local.
http://roborace.com
http://roborace.com
When I went to my first F1 grand prix, I could hear the sound of the cars from the parking lot. As a huge fan, that gave me goosebumps and got me excited. The sound is a huge plus, and all fans I know love it. Yeah you need to plug your ears when you are in the stands, but I would take that over the sound of these electric cars.
I think they should focus on battery swapping as the way to deal with limited energy capacity. It makes for a nice spectacle watching pit crews do their thing. Swapping out an entire car and driver is just boring. Likewise the constraint to be able to swap the battery packs quickly will necessarily lead to the cars looking a bit different than F1. I think that also would be an improvement and help them differentiate as more than just "like F1 but more quiet and slow."
The ability to run events almost anywhere is a huge opportunity. It could make for some really compelling video footage in some awesome locations, if they can negotiate it.
Courses should focus on short sections and tight turns. Acceleration is where electric motors are most exciting, and keeping top speeds below the 200mph+ of F1 would let them run smaller events with less safety buffer space. Let people get up close and see the cars rocket out of each corner.
(I don't disagree with this being great technology, I would love to have quiet cities, what we do to the space we live in right now is an abomination in my view)
If you look at the recordings from their pre-season "dress rehearsal" from Donington Park (available in YouTube), it was magnificent racing. Much better than any of the proper races they had.
There is work to be done to make Formula E interesting. I know I'll be watching RoboRace, but probably not the current season.
There is a lot of work done to change the performance - ideally you'd actually not want flat torque, but high torque at low speed and lower at high speed to reduce the need for switchable gears. This is done with techniques like flux weakening.
Here's how you get a kid to get interested in this kind of event. First, buy good earphones. Super important - it's incredibly loud. Next, go to a top fuel event.
If you are grown and haven't been to a top fuel drag race, I HIGHLY recommend you try it once. Once is enough to figure it out.
I also watched Formula 1 and I loved the sound of the engines. You can tell by the sound what the top engines are. It is just a whole other experience. You hear the car coming before you see it and that gets you excited.
I'm probably biased, being a Formula 1 fan for over 25 years.