Ask HN: How would you invest $50,000?

46 points by alphabetaprune ↗ HN
I am in a financially secure position. I have no debt, I am single, no mortgage to pay, and no need to work (although I do it anyway because I enjoy it). I am not "super" wealthy either. Rather than having money sitting in the bank, I've decided to invest $250,000. $200,000 will go into vanilla/convserative investments. But with the remaining $50,000 I'd like to try something a bit more interesting. I have unlimited risk tolerance for the $50k, provided the investment has "home-run" type upside.

1. Excluding angel investing, what would you do?

2. Assume you have zero experience angel investing, but have a capable technical background. What do you do? How would you build an angel brand for yourself?

100 comments

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You could loan it out over Kiva, or at least a part of it. Just be sure whatever you choose, for any of your investments, that they at least beat the rate of inflation, else you are better of spending it.
Kiva does not even pay interest, so I don't see how this fits the description of a potentially high-risk investment with the possibility for a large payout.
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That's not true; Kiva often charges extraordinarily high interest rates. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiva_(organization)#Interest_ra...
It charges interest to borrowers, but it doesn't pay interest to donor-investors.
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?
I lend on Kiva, and I don't have a problem with it. There's a lot that has to happen between my Paypal transfer to Kiva and the money being distributed to the local entrepreneur...and even more that has to happen to collect the payments.

I'm happy to set aside a small amount of money as a catalyst for progress, and thankful that others are doing the heavy lifting.

(Apologies for continuing this off-topic line of conversation.)

Enter in contact with other angel investors, sometimes they group together in a fund and they will be happy to help you invest the $ 50,000.
I would make a list of lesser known sites that I am impressed with, then sequentially contact them for an x% stake. If all say no, I would try and join the angel list on venture hacks. If they didn't let me in, I'd go to the angel investment network.
Find a startup that interests you personally enough that you'd go on board as a founder who conveniently has $$$.
board experience is a super big plus.
Be careful: If you're in the US, to do most angel investing, you must be an accredited investor, per SEC regulations. To qualify, you must have a net worth of at least $1M or have made >$200K in each of the last two years (>$300k if married). Almost any company with a good lawyer will require that you sign something certifying that you are accredited.
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I would post on HN and ask for people to share with you what they're working on but for the love provide some sort of template or format you want to be pitched with. Whether you want to see wireframes, a demo, or a slide deck with 5 slides etc.

Pick what you like best and dive in - in whatever capacity you choose.

For #1, are you looking for a 1 in 10 chance of a 5x return, or a 1 in 100 chance of a 50x return?

For #2, if you don't want to spend the serious time and money (because you will lose some money while learning) becoming a angel investor, consider investing in a fund that does angel size investing. David Cohen of TechStars runs a small fund that does seed stage investing, and I'm sure you can find others as that is a hot area.

For #1 You can beat those odds by going to Vagas. It's not hard to get a 1 in 10 chance of 9.5x return or a 1 in 100 chance of a 95x return. What you want is a 1 in 3 chance of a 30x return within 5 years.

PS: This is also why most VC funds make so little money for the investors.

> It's not hard to get a 1 in 10 chance of 9.5x return or a 1 in 100 chance of a 95x return Does 2x on $100 leave me a total of $200 or $300.

> What you want is a 1 in 3 chance of a 30x return within 5 years Obviously, that will be hard to find. If you did 100 of those, you'd be getting a 10x return in 5 years.

My original question to the poster stands. Are you looking for a real long shot, or something with a decent chance of paying off?

To answer your question. My original thinking in setting aside $50k was to expose myself to "positive black swans." I'm looking to place a series of improbable bets such that if one pays off in a major way...

I do like the idea of investing in an angel fund to get my feet wet. I'll consider that.

There was an idea floating around the blogosphere a few weeks ago about investing in individual rather than an specific company. Where you would pull in a percentage of that persons net income for the rest of your life...could be interesting.
That sounds like slavery.
No, slavery would be forcing someone to work for you (rather like what the government does when it forces people to pay an income tax.) Contracting with someone for a percentage of their income is rather like investing in their startup with the agreement that they will work for the startup for a long time.
Even if it's done without force, one can't contract away their freedom (at least in the US). The contact isn't enforceable.
No dude it is slavery, it is called indentured servitude (classified as a form of slavery) and it is illegal. The reason being that if allowed it is easy for the rich to drive down the market until you sign up for service or you starve. If allowed, the vast majority on this board would be indentured in less than 15 years. The worst part is that it never becomes enough, fathers have to enlist there sons, before they can consciously accept or reject just to be competitive. If they ever legalized this in America, I would revolt the day it was passed, it may be a revolution of one, but it would be a revolution.
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Here's something you can do even with small dollars and without being an accredited investor: find some public firms with lots of "toxic assets" on their books, e.g. mortgage REITs. See if you can find some that most people are afraid to touch, yet you think they'll pull through. Buy their stock.

I have a lot more research to do before I pull the trigger, but I'm planning to throw a couple grand in this direction myself.

Sounds like somebody was watching 60 Minutes last night.

Here's a full article about one of the guys they profiled: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-str...

Nope, coincidence. Been looking at this for a few weeks. Thanks for telling me, though: I'll take into consideration anything that looks like a spike from the media attention.
See if you can implement an improved information system if they have a really bad one. Their cause of failure: bad information. On the other hand maybe they have some good information that can be useful.
I believe that guy effectively took short positions on the firms with toxic assets. His positions were pretty much insurance bets, which paid off when a lot of these firms tanked during the crisis.
1. Excluding angel investing: If I were you, with 50,000 and unlimited risk tolerance, I'd buy a foreclosure. If you take some time, do your homework, and make the right investment then the payoff could be quite good.

2. I understand your frustration. There's just nothing out there for the beginning angel. As you can tell from most of the answers here-- there really isn't a good answer. You're too rich to have the money sitting in a bond fund, and too poor to be Paul Graham. You're stuck in the middle, and the investments market (right now) doesn't have a home for you. You're also a prime target for some get rich quick investment schemes, so you ought to be careful.

Invest it in something that will directly and non-financially benefit at least one other person, not including yourself. I guarantee that it will give you the greatest ROI. You already sound much better off that 99% of the population. Good luck with your investment!
I imagine that becoming an angel is difficult.

1. You need to be situationally positioned well to get decent dealflow.

2. You need to invest in many deals; I have been told that profitable angels do 10+ deals a year.

3. Low-end slices are typically $25k and up. It's a lot of work for companies to wrangle a large number of investors so minimizing that number is to their advantage.

4. It can take YEARS to return anything at all. I've invested in 24 startups since 2007; one exited so far.

I have a few friends that do angel investing in the 5k - 10k range regularly. Unfortunately that's still only a handful of deals and might not be enough to get a good reputation or good deal flow.
In what kind of companies? With what kind of success? In what region?
I was/am in a similar situation. The rule of thumb financial advisors tend to use (and you should take any advice from them with a few grains of salt...) is to put around 10% of your portfolio into high-risk investments.

The 'typical' route you'll be steered toward are real estate investments. There's a whole world of exotic financial instruments I had never heard of before coming into money, but real estate is probably the most popular, since it seems so familiar to most people. This is what we did. In 2007. Yeah... =) It paid off in the end, surprisingly, but it was a close thing.

The best advice I can give you is to invest in things you understand. If you have enough experience with startups to judge them critically, angel investing may be your best option. Putting your money into something you don't understand is little better than gambling.

Though one. Are you willing to spend significant time on those angel investments?
Think about how you can differentiate yourself in the angel market. What do you believe in the potential of that you don't think is shared by a lot of more established names? What do you think everyone else is missing? I bet there's something.

Track down the most talented people you can find working on that unfairly underserved idea and make it your cause.

1) I wouldn't, but you could do real estate, franchising or futures/options trading.

2) If you want to consider angel investing alongside me, email me.

Angel Investment? Seriously? For a guy with $50k in the bank??? Surely you must know how Angel investing works, right?

You might as well advise him to take his money to the dog track. It's better odds and more fun.

If he wants to be a co founder and contribute, and he's got some skills the odds go up
He's the one talking about it. I'm just offering a way to think about it in a more focused manner.
Ah, in which case your answer should have been "No. Angel investing only works if you invest in dozens of companies, since chances are any one of them will go under."

Or better still, "No. You should take it all out in twenty dollar bills, box it up and send it UPS to that Expat Software guy." I'd back you up on that one.

Simple:

- $40k into an Index Fund tracking the S&P 500

- $10k into a Six Month Trip Around Southeast Asia

Chances are you're not going to hold onto that Single, No-Mortgage thing very long. If you haven't done much traveling, it's probably best you get out there now to see what you're missing.

You definitely have the right idea with getting your debt sorted and starting the retirement investment stuff early. You're never going to be in a place where excess money comes in so fast, and it's physically impossible to get into a place where your investments have longer to compound.

But then you're also in a place where you can afford to squander a bit of that advantage to go have some fun. Send us a postcard!

I went around most of Southeast Asia, plus Japan on $12k for exactly six months. Three of those months were in Japan.

Totally worth it. I'd go back now, if I wasn't dead broke.

I go to Thailand in just over 4 weeks, after Indonesia last year ive got exactly the same bug. Though I think my anti love of commercial epicentres was further developed by the fact we spend 3 days in Dubai on the way back home..seriously everything that is wrong with anything is there! Nasty...Rant over.
Invest in a small tech firm from a country where labour is cheap. India. Ukraine. Philippines.

$50,000 = annual salary of 3-4 employee team.

Get them to make iphone apps, android apps, facebook games.

If you go with a 4 people team, the division should be: 3 developers and 1 marketer. And one of them handles everything for a bit higher salary and a very small equity stake.

If you had $100,000-$200,000 to invest, I would get the team to flip websites. You buy the websites (with the remaining $50,000 to $150,000). They make it better with new features / redesign etc and then increase traffic to it for 4-6 months. You then re-sell the websites.

In this instance, I would go with: 2 developers and 2 marketers.

I'm a programmer I typically make ~72k a year. But for 50k, I'll work for you for 1 year. The catch, is you have to let me work on whatever I want (provided you agree it has profit potential) we can discuss further details if you're interested.

hey its worth a shot :)

Find somebody who wants to start a company in the hardware business. They don't have the luxury of building something for free and $50k might be enough to get a prototype.
Have you considered becomming a creditor? You can lend via sites like lendingclub.com. Annual returns are approaching what you'd expect to get on the stock market in the long term.

I haven't tried this investment myself yet (insufficient funds) but I'd be interested if I had the money spare.

Warning: I'm not sure about how this works in the US, but here in the UK I'd have to obtain a consumer credit act license for lending more than 25k.