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Ask HN: How do you take notes other than using paper?

42 points by simon_acca ↗ HN
Hi all,

going trough college, it struck me that notes are still mostly a pen and paper business. At least, that is my experience, as well as my colleague's, for anything that is not plain text.

I found that there is no app that allows me to quickly mix together text, math formulas, code, images, sketches, graphs, and other kinds of media (yes, yes, I hear you invoke the mighty LaTeX... but can you write correct LaTeX on-the-fly?).

I would like to tackle this problem by building a platform for storing and sharing your personal knowledge, and it would help greatly to hear other people's insights on this matter.

    So, what I am asking is: do you take complex notes with a computing device? 
    If yes: 
      how? what method, device, app?
      do you re-process your notes offline?
      would you like some functionality that you don't have in your system?
    If not:
      what is missing from current technology that would allow you to do so?
      would you want to upgrade from paper to a computer or tablet application that suits your needs?
Thank you!

p.s. In case you want updates on this, check back on http://taquino.it in a few months or send me an email (see HN profile)

87 comments

[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 159 ms ] thread
Hates_
I use Evernote for non coding notes and Quiver for coding related notes.
MollyR
Video recorded with my cell phone (ask if your professor is okay with it). Also took notes by hand, something about writing down helped with memory retention. Followed it up with manual conversion into flashcards in anki http://ankisrs.net/ .
MarlonPro
"I found that there is no app that allows me to quickly mix together text, math formulas, images, sketches, graphs, and other kinds of media"

OneNote - with add-ins

stinkytaco
I like OneNote, I really do.

But it is not always quick. If you're using a pen and/or the tablet version of outlook, there are some cumbersome menus to navigate. Still not quicker than paper.

EDIT: Though after a reread of the original post, it is faster than LaTex.

dpcan
I take notes, then take pictures of the pages. I really have no need for notes to be converted to text or any special format as they are for review only.

That being said, an app where I can create a folder for, or tag the photos of my notes for the class or conference, put the pictures I took in that category to easily flip through them, and then be able to virtually highlight them, create bookmarks in them, or mark over them with a virtual sharpy would be awesome.

stinkytaco
I'd love to find this. I have a case of notes from college that I'd like to reference again, if only for my own interest. I'm not sure it's worth the effort to go through and digitize 3 dozen notebooks, but there's information in there I'd like to have and I didn't really think much about long term recall when I was in college. I wish the capability of taking pictures and quickly digitizing them existed at the time I went to school.
Arcten
If you're alright with destroying the notebooks, you could try removing the spines and running them through a tray-fed scanner. That would be much faster than taking individual pictures/scans of each page.
mitola
I use Evernote if that helps, it suits my purpose. Even though I do use some extra hotkeys for formating. The best use out of it for me is the search functionality.
DrSayre
I like Notes in iOS/macOS. I really like having it on my phone and mac. I would like it if it was markdown or something to style them more, but the updates they released in the past year is an improvement.

Im glad you mentioned math formulas. One thing I can't do, that would be nice to do in Notes is someway to do math. I like to calculate what each contestant should bet for Final Jeopardy! and it's hard to do it in Notes.

stinkytaco
I find writing aids my recall. I have experimented with a surface pro 3 and it is ok, if you need them digitized, but less convenient then paper. (sometimes I accidentally hit a button or exit my notetaking app, sometimes I find myself wanting to do special formatting and not knowing how to, etc.) Its recognition and comfort are fine, however.

Notes are for you to recall the material better. What helps you with that?

Apreche
iPad pro + magic pencil.
stinkytaco
Honest question, but do you like the iPad Pro? I've eyed it, but that's a lot of money to spend for the addition of a pen. I assume you do design or something else that makes that more worth it for you?
fredsir
Is there going to be an iPad Air 3 at some point, or is the only 9,7" model the iPad Pro going forward, I wonder?
jxy
Going back to the question, what apps do you use and how do you like them?
rffn
I use the iPad Pro and the pen as well.

For taking handwritten notes, drawing, annotating slides, etc. I use Notability. I reviewed a few of these apps and liked it because it has a macOS version, offers the option to store all files on a local WebDAV (no cloud needed), differentiates between finger (movement) and pen (writing) and is reasonably simple, i.e. quick to use.

I also looked at Evernote and OneNote. Both are fine programs and I am ok with having most of my notes on their servers; just not all of them. OneNote lost a bit lately. It used to have local handwriting recognition. This is now in the cloud. Impractical and a privacy issue.

I also looked at the MS Surface 4 instead of the iPad but found that I rather have a oversized tablet then a laptop with a detachable keyboard. I enjoy a selection of excellent epub readers and touch enabled video players more than a RAW workflow (Darktable, etc.). These were the things I found being much better on the iPad or on the Surface. There are for sure more differences, depending on the user's needs.

On the iPad I also find PDF Expert for PDK journals and books and Hyphen or Marvin for epubs quite useful. Using Working Copy as a git client is nice for occasionally looking at code or keeping notes in ASCII text. Surprisingly typing on the large 12.9 inch screen works well for me. This was not the case with smaller screens.

The iPAD is the paperless office for me as well as a portable library. It could do much more I think. Working on it.

It is also a good player for Netflix, etc. :)

collyw
Pen and Paper works for me. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
rch
Google Keep is good for the odd note, list, or whiteboard picture.

I'd like to have a CLI version.

stinkytaco
Since you'll be in the command line and limited to text, why not just text files? deft for emacs is like Notational Velocity. If you store your notes in dropbox, you've got them in the cloud.

There's also org mode, vi, todo.txt, etc. etc. etc. etc....

rch
Exactly, but it could be in Keep (the OP asked what I'd improve). I use a few of the approaches you've suggested as well, which is why I find myself wishing I could do some things from the command line, e.g.:

  keep notes.txt list.yml --remind 'tomorrow morning'
  keep graphviz.png -m 'links #ok'
  keep -n 20 -f > notifications.txt
and so on.
stinkytaco
So what do you find to be the primary advantage of keep over those other options? I can see sharing (my wife and I share lists in keep), images (though that's workable in some solutions with filesystem linking and markdown) and reminders (the big gaping hole in org mode for me, I also do reminders in Keep).
rch
The ones you list are the first that come to mind. I also use colors and labels in Keep.

How about a sharing a location based reminder to retrieve an unused network card from a server next time someone visits the datacenter?

thomasfoster96
I used to use OneNote a lot (partly because my high school used it a lot). It was alright, but the free version on the Windows Store is horrible and I don't have enough use for it to pay for the full version.

I've tried using the notes app on my iPhone but it's just not quick enough to write things down in - although that might be because I have a 5s with a smaller screen than newer phones. I've used it when I have been without a pen a couple of times, but other than that I have very little use for it.

I think I used Evernote once and it just seemed like an early-2000s version of one note.

Ideally what I want is MediaWiki in a .exe or .app. Most other wiki programs seem to be inferior to OneNote for me, but I'd love to have my own offline Wikipedia of my life and projects.

simon_acca
MediaWiki.{exe|app} exactly! That's what I'm trying to build, and this is the best description I've heard so far :)

Related question: would you prefer this to be local or on the cloud? I am oriented towards a cloud service because of cross-platform support and auto sync between devices, but open to suggestions.

thomasfoster96
Well, it'd be nice (well, actually, quite necessary) for it to be available offline.
wwkeyboard
I absolutely must have control over my own notes. The primary reason I'm using org-mode + dropbox is that I can replace that system with some other file-sync on my own if dropbox goes away.
taserian
Have you looked at TiddlyWiki? http://tiddlywiki.com/

It's a simple wiki-on-a-page, with collapsing and linking built in. You can also keep it completely off-line, or have it sync with your preferred solution (Dropbox in my case).

stinkytaco
What platform are you on? I can think of several programs that fit at least some of this bill:

Emacs with Org Mode and deft

Zim

Circus Ponies notebook

Devon Think

Notational velocity with its wiki like linking

Tomboy notes

many more that I could list with time

Some of these will have various limitations such as not supporting images or not allowing easy drawings, etc, but many would come without the overhead of wiki markup.

thomasfoster96
I'm on Windows 10.

Images (as well as tables) are kinda a bit of a must for me. I don't find Wiki markup to have much overhead in practice.

OneNoteIsFree
Onenote (native) is free. I use it on windows 10. Are you sure you're downloading it from the right place? Try spoofing your windows version.
two2two
Used to use Evernote, then Notes in macOS, but I'm still a pen and paper person as it allows me ultimate flexibility. I also record audio on my phone, write a time in my notes next to anything I need to review later. I just don't retain the information nearly as well if I type. Using a pen/pencil like tool on a screen wouldn't work for me as I use the texture of the pen and paper as a guide to look away while still scratching down notes. As weird as it is, the act of turning a page and marking the date in the corner places a marker in my mind for when I review; practically takes me back to the moment I was writing the notes.
scarecrowbob
I keep notes in text files in sublime. If I want to search, I just do a text search. I generally have many, many tabs (don't the old folks call them text buffers?) open, and when I go through a weekly cleanup of these I find that they fall into two categories:

Stuff that was just, say, a couple of lines of code or urls, short todo lists that have been todone, long lists of credentials, research.

I delete the stuff I don't think I'll need and store the rest in an encrypted store on my main machine.

To your question, these things are things I almost never want to share with folks, my sketches / doodles /etc are generally ephemeral on purpose, and my images are usually parts of projects or collections of similar media, not part of my "notes", and code, of course, is very good in plain text.

Keep in mind that there are reasons why people, myself included, still take notes on pen and paper. For me, it's a single function thing that keeps me focused on the people I am meeting with... I've never gotten a distracting email on my spiral full of graph paper.

So here's an issue you can solve: I totally don't think that there is an "upgrade" for pen and paper in the situations that I use it.

stinkytaco
I sometimes have a yearning for a text program like emacs or sublime that can handle images, formulas or other graphical material as easily as paper or onenote. That way I could keep these things together. Not enough that I can't just dump that stuff into a folder, but enough that I find occasional friction.

And though I've never gotten a distracting email on paper, I find it quite easy to do distracting things like doodle, plan dinner, read previous notes, daydream, etc.

EDIT: As I'm brainstorming this, I can see linking to images on the filesystem using a markdown like syntax, then having those images appear when reviewing the notes. Perhaps quickly switching to a program for drawing or automatically syncing pictures of my paper notes or drawings to my PC so I can quickly link those files into the document I am working on.

jxy
Since you mentioned emacs, org-mode has the ability to attach files and show image files within the buffer, and it handles previewing latex formulas too.

The problem with these kind of system is that you always need the emacs open, because opening emacs and find the org file you want is too much a friction comparing to opening up a note book and start writing/doodling.

Vexs
+1 for google keep- simple one-line notes are organized easily, attached webpages are handy, and I can store images too- plus, it syncs to my pebble, so if I make a grocery list it's right there.
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html5web
I used wri.pe for a while, it's fast and easy to use. It also supports markdown
ASalazarMX
My ideal notes app would be a rich-text offline hierarchical organizer like CherryTree (http://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree) with a mobile version and synchronization thru Dropbox or similar (like KeePass).

Cloud solutions are nice, and I've tried several, but it always feels more like a convenience for the provider rather than the consumer.

simon_acca
A hierarchical structure is something I'm very keen on adding. Do you think a tree-like visualization (example: https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083 ) would be useful?
stinkytaco
If this is what you need, a mindmapping program like Freemind (or commercial alternative) is worth looking into.

Not to hammer the org mode drum, but you can output org-mode to opml and into Freemind for visualization.

stinkytaco
You can configure org-mode to be a two pane organizer. There is a mobile version in Orgzly or Mobile Org. I keep some of my org files in dropbox and edit them on the go with Orgzly. That said, orgzly doesn't support encryption, which is a bummer.

Neither of them are rich text, either, though you can use markdown.

pajtai
I use simplenote. It's plain text, syncs, is multi platform, and is free. https://simplenote.com/

I find that images, etc, clutter things, and that for me plain text works the best - my snippets are usually code - and it handles that well. I often use urls to link out.

In terms of remembering things - I find typing it out helps, but writing it with pen and paper helps more... and finally the most help is to review your notes. As long as you review soon after taking them, the format almost doesn't matter.

techload
Many thanks for this! Exactly what I needed. I used a simple .txt file in Dropbox.
snerbles
For meetings I almost always use a pen and notepad - I'm often the only guy in the room without a laptop.

For project/task notes at my desk I write to a single markdown file in the following format:

    ### Task Name
     * Note about task
     * Another note about task
Every time I save the file, a shellscript makes a date-stamped copy. For searching I wrote a rather obnoxious tool based on lunr.js that indexes the entire history, allowing me to search tasks by content.
ams6110
Very similar approach, I use emacs and org-mode though at my desk. Paper and pencil for active note-taking.
pbnjay
I've used most of the tools mentioned here. Plain text or Google keep work fine for most of my notes. But I often need to sketch things and I have yet to find hardware/software that can beat pen+paper for responsiveness. If I want a digital copy I'll take a picture but tablets just can't keep up.
kendallpark
nvALT synced with Simplenote (I use the Simplenote app on my phone). These are for the daily, random notes of life.

I use Workflowy for med school notes, which fit better into Workflowy's infinitely expandable/contractable tree nature.

Semiapies
If I'm doodling designs our the like, or if I'm not at my computer (say, at a client's office), it has to be pen and paper. Any other time, it's emacs in org-mode, with source code blocks for code or output.
markbao
I use OmniOutliner on Mac with a custom template to take notes at university. I have a two-column template that allows me to write questions/cues for notes which then go into Anki. I'd like to have a more flexible way to work with the content, such as being able to create Anki cards from content seamlessly, and yeah, inline LaTeX formatting and diagrams would be really nice.

Something programmable/hackable is what I'd be looking for; it'd also be neat if everything was all part of one knowledge graph like Workflowy.

More on the process: http://markbao.com/notes/college-strategies#note-taking

I've gotten nearly as fast as writing on paper for creating diagrams (in OmniGraffle) and LaTeX (with Mac app LaTeXiT), and being able to clearly read my notes without deciphering things outweighs the extra time spent typing.