With some materials changes I can imagine a moving walkway of sorts. However like at the airport it would be a lot more pleasant to use /within/ an at least partially enclosed environment.
Every time I think of this type of topic I wonder how long we're going to leave cities the way they are now. Having at least glassed over streets, separated pedestrian and roadway layers (makes sense when both need more space), and later stopping cars at the border entirely and having a network of the moving walkways within makes sense.
That's one issue, needing a canopy. The other is they are mechanically delicate, they wear out and need constant maintenance because garbage, dust, gunk, rubbish etc contribute to wear as well as breakdown. Just not good for outdoors environments.
If we used vehicles that weigh a lot less, say 200Kg, we could, in an urban setting, probably get 60km/l of gasoline, instead of 10km/l. Accidents wouldn't be so dangerous (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixMVuOslebI) and we could even let younger people drive (you could certainly let a 14yo drive a golf cart). There would be less pollution and less noise.
In all fairness, future cities may still be designed around that kind of transportation. Not many cities have been designed and built in the last 10 years.
Also, I didn't know Steve Jobs had any kind of relationship with the Segway. But it doesn't seem like he was the biggest fan of it and the launch plans: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html
>I think [the design] sucks. Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant and it doesn't feel anthropomorphic
>Screw the lead times. You don't have a great product yet! I know burn rates are important, but you'll only get one shot at this, and if you blow it, it's over.
>Jobs said he lived seven minutes from a grocery and wasn't sure he would use Ginger to get there.
Steve Jobs was a very critical person, but I think he was often right for the right reasons. The segway was a product designed by engineers, and it showed. Its launch was over-hyped and under-delivered. It also doesn't really solve a problem that exists in current cities.
I think a major problem with it, outside of the social stigma that gets slapped onto anything without a massive MSM endorsement campaign, was that it didn't slot neatly into existing legislation.
It seemed aimed at being a vehicle for young and old alike, with no license requirement. But as it didn't fit inside bicycle, never mind e-bike, definitions, it became treated as a motor vehicle. And that dragged in all kinds of regulations.
I'm interested in the promise that ebikes show. As the cost of batteries decline, they get cheaper and become a more interesting value proposition. I've submitted some HN articles on them:
In the West, good ebikes around $1,000 haven't yet arrived. We'll see what happens if / when they do. I don't ride an ebike—I just got one of these: https://www.rei.com/product/888337/novara-gotham-bike-2016—b... I do see many more of them than I used to, and there are many ebike Kickstarter campaigns.
Take a look at the links. They're not really comparable. They don't go as fast and are designed to be pedal-assisted—that is, without pedaling, nothing happens. The basic frame is a bike frame, not a motorcycle frame. And so on.
Ebikes provide assistance but are not designed for high-speed riding or conventional freeways or that sort of thing.
In addition, electric-assist bikes potentially (e.g. in EU they have a power limit, and can only supply power if you move the pedals) count as bicycles, so you can use cycle lanes or restricted paths, don't need a license or insurance...
Well if we got arcologies or such, then maybe. I never understood the hype. If anything all we saw of it in my city were overweight city employees zipping around with them.
It you had a massive weather controlled area, a domed city, then yeah you could design around them but if you are going the domed city route I am quite sure part of the planning would involve good use of moving walkways and similar. Who would want to dodge a bunch of people of Segways?
I'm honestly surprised the monorail never took off. The only reason I can think of is that "monorail" sounds like some kind of disease — perhaps "air rail" or "sky train" would have worked better? Safe, efficient, quiet — it seems like these would go far with regard to public transportation in many cities.
It's expensive and provides few (if any?) advantages over conventional rail. Especially these days with safety codes such that you need to provide a way for passengers to exit the train in an emergency.
Monorails and maglev both have the disadvantage that they don't do junctions very well. You have to swap a massive peice of straight structure for a massive piece of curved structure to form a junction.
Monorails are still used as a part of "subway" systems around the world, but (from what I heard) they usually have less capacity than regular railways, so most big cities end up building conventional subway system.
Also, it turns out residents and shop owners hate a gigantic elevated structure that blocks sunlight half of the day.
Do you actually mean single rail? Or alternatively do you mean elevated rail and/or maglev?
I'm under the impression that true monorails have essentially zero advantage over standard birails. (Narrower and more elegant support structures casting smaller shadows is of course desirable, but I don't think the number of rails is a confining parameter in modern tech.)
Monorails typically use rubber wheels, which DO have a lot of advantages (maximum grade, sound, stopping distance), but I'm also unclear why that couldn't be applied to birails. Monorails might also have a smaller turn radius?
Ultimately I feel like the problem with monorail is that public transit is primarily a political, not technological, phenomena, and so while there might be a good idea in monorails, or iterations where it could be combined with birails to make something truly technologically superior, but it just doesn't matter.
Monorail: Light rail transport is common, as are elevated trains. Whether they use one or more than one 'rail' is beside the point.
Moving walkways: Escalators. They are everywhere.
Pneumatic trains: Ok, this one failed. Compared to modern electric options, the sealed tube concept remains a pipe dream. Hyperloop is fun to talk about, but I cannot see any market.
Single-person car: They are everywhere. We call them motorcycles. And I see old people in wheelchairs/scooters with roofs, walls and even doors. Single-person motorized transport is a thing.
Jet pack: Come on? Nobody ever took that seriously. Even if they energy density issues were addressed, the inherent dangers of such flight would prevent any widespread use.
Also along the lines of single person cars: rickshaws in China and India -- more like a 3 person light car but the concept is the same (fabric roofs, no doors, relatively slow speed compared to full fledged metal cars, but highly agile and capable of navigating narrow old-world streets).
Rickshaws are pretty awesome vehicles. In the US, most of the people who have a bicycle or motorcycle also have a car.
Micro cars are a good middle ground between them in terms of passenger or cargo capacity, but they're usually too expensive.
I think Rickshaw-style vehicles could meet that middle ground in the US while also being far more affordable. It's probably difficult to import rickshaws since most of them are manufactured in foreign locales to specs that don't meet import EPA requirements.
I wonder if there are any that would meet import requirements or that are manufactured in the US. An electric rickshaw is an interesting idea too.
Edit:
Maybe the answer is to just get a pedicab and get some battery packs and an electric assist motor.
They are designed for disabled people and you can drive them in the bike lane and park almost everywhere. I think an cheap electric version could be very useful on rainy days (99% of the days here) for short commutes.
OK, here's my free gift to someone, since I don't live in SF or a big city. Why isn't there an Uber for buses? You use your smart phone to enter where you want to go, and a nearby bus comes around and picks you up. Seems like there are plenty of opportunities to make bus transport nicer. Like having the bus conform you the needs of the people actively using it at one time (i.e. no stops where no one is getting on or getting off, and more direct routes, etc.). Maybe the would be wifi and charging stations on board as well. It seems like the price should be relatively low, since the cost could be potentially shared between 10+ people. I'd imagine that the first couple of buses would be privately owned, but you could expand out to lease the technology to existing municipalities to extend to their bus lines. And there would be a natural fit for self-driving buses in the future.
It exists. Around here it's called Dial-A-Ride and like the name says, you call them and they pick you up at your house and take you wherever. The buses are like the small airport shuttle buses. It's very popular with senior citizens who don't drive much.
In Chile there is an interesting concept called colectivo. It's a system that takes the fixed nature of a bus route and the readily available nature of Uber.
Basically, they are cars/vans that drive along a designated route. You can flag them down anywhere along that route and exit anywhere along the route.
Pearson airport in Toronto has a pretty fast moving walkway. Although in its history it was amazing how often it wasn't working. Like when I flew in last Wednesday.
One of the things a lot of these transport methods seem to ignore is traveling with kids. Cars really are the easiest way to date to travel with small-ish children. It's really nice to be able to stash baby stuff in the trunk and know you always have it with you just in case without carrying it everywhere. (Bottles, diapers, change of clothes, etc). Single person cars, moving walkways and especially jet packs (!) Are particularly difficult / impossible with kids, same with Segways, etc.
Both bicycles (long john or long tail) and walking (with or without a stroller) are both quite good ways to get around with children as well. Unless you have a very large number of kids (> 3 or so) you can probably fit everything you need in a small backpack or messenger bag.
Only for short distances and in fair weather though. And as soon as you need to carry enough to let them sleep where you're going (eg. an umbrella bed), there's really no serious alternative.
Bicycles are incredibly dangerous compared to cars, even for adults [1]. They are an absolute nightmare for transporting small children. An adult can fall from a bicycle and get a scratched knee, while an infant/toddler will break his neck.
Walking is much more dangerous as well, and is tiring even with one child.
I'm very curious about the source data for this, in particular where (it will be different between countries) and when (over what period of time it was collected). I'm not outright discounting it, but seems very odd from my experience.
Monorails are being built in many major cities outside North America. Japan has several large monorail systems. Tokyo alone has three major monorail lines. China has five systems. Mumbai has a big monorail system. Nigeria has two monorail systems. Moscow has a monorail. (The trains throw the snow off the beam, raining it on passersby.)
China is putting in their second maglev monorail.
The only new monorail in the US in decades is the one in Vegas.
what about two-people vehicles?
see litmotors c1 - enclosed EV gyro stabilized motorcycle
I believe smart solution for city environments: business men, working moms, rainy cities, reckless teenagers
49 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 118 ms ] threadMonorail
Moving walkways
Pneumatic trains
Single-person car
Jet pack
Monorail does work in some places, it just never delivered the volume that most lines require. So, low volume lines can make use of monorails.
Every time I think of this type of topic I wonder how long we're going to leave cities the way they are now. Having at least glassed over streets, separated pedestrian and roadway layers (makes sense when both need more space), and later stopping cars at the border entirely and having a network of the moving walkways within makes sense.
Also, I didn't know Steve Jobs had any kind of relationship with the Segway. But it doesn't seem like he was the biggest fan of it and the launch plans: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html
>I think [the design] sucks. Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant and it doesn't feel anthropomorphic
>Screw the lead times. You don't have a great product yet! I know burn rates are important, but you'll only get one shot at this, and if you blow it, it's over.
>Jobs said he lived seven minutes from a grocery and wasn't sure he would use Ginger to get there.
Steve Jobs was a very critical person, but I think he was often right for the right reasons. The segway was a product designed by engineers, and it showed. Its launch was over-hyped and under-delivered. It also doesn't really solve a problem that exists in current cities.
It seemed aimed at being a vehicle for young and old alike, with no license requirement. But as it didn't fit inside bicycle, never mind e-bike, definitions, it became treated as a motor vehicle. And that dragged in all kinds of regulations.
Jobs was right, the idea of the Segway was a good one, but the execution wasn't quite right.
* http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/vanmoofs-electrified-s-could...
* https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/23/xiaomi-mi-qicycle-smart-...
* http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/the-surprising-heal...
Or see: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/10/24/240493422/in-m....
In the West, good ebikes around $1,000 haven't yet arrived. We'll see what happens if / when they do. I don't ride an ebike—I just got one of these: https://www.rei.com/product/888337/novara-gotham-bike-2016—b... I do see many more of them than I used to, and there are many ebike Kickstarter campaigns.
Living in a city, motorcyclists are the dirt worst (especially after 10PM). I can't even hear an ebike.
Ebikes provide assistance but are not designed for high-speed riding or conventional freeways or that sort of thing.
It you had a massive weather controlled area, a domed city, then yeah you could design around them but if you are going the domed city route I am quite sure part of the planning would involve good use of moving walkways and similar. Who would want to dodge a bunch of people of Segways?
Also, it turns out residents and shop owners hate a gigantic elevated structure that blocks sunlight half of the day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorail
Do you actually mean single rail? Or alternatively do you mean elevated rail and/or maglev?
I'm under the impression that true monorails have essentially zero advantage over standard birails. (Narrower and more elegant support structures casting smaller shadows is of course desirable, but I don't think the number of rails is a confining parameter in modern tech.)
Ultimately I feel like the problem with monorail is that public transit is primarily a political, not technological, phenomena, and so while there might be a good idea in monorails, or iterations where it could be combined with birails to make something truly technologically superior, but it just doesn't matter.
Moving walkways: Escalators. They are everywhere.
Pneumatic trains: Ok, this one failed. Compared to modern electric options, the sealed tube concept remains a pipe dream. Hyperloop is fun to talk about, but I cannot see any market.
Single-person car: They are everywhere. We call them motorcycles. And I see old people in wheelchairs/scooters with roofs, walls and even doors. Single-person motorized transport is a thing.
Jet pack: Come on? Nobody ever took that seriously. Even if they energy density issues were addressed, the inherent dangers of such flight would prevent any widespread use.
Apparently there are some in SF too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Auto_Ric...
Micro cars are a good middle ground between them in terms of passenger or cargo capacity, but they're usually too expensive.
I think Rickshaw-style vehicles could meet that middle ground in the US while also being far more affordable. It's probably difficult to import rickshaws since most of them are manufactured in foreign locales to specs that don't meet import EPA requirements.
I wonder if there are any that would meet import requirements or that are manufactured in the US. An electric rickshaw is an interesting idea too.
Edit: Maybe the answer is to just get a pedicab and get some battery packs and an electric assist motor.
They are designed for disabled people and you can drive them in the bike lane and park almost everywhere. I think an cheap electric version could be very useful on rainy days (99% of the days here) for short commutes.
Then Standard Oil came in and stopped it from happening.
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/LA1963.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alweg
Basically, they are cars/vans that drive along a designated route. You can flag them down anywhere along that route and exit anywhere along the route.
I loved it.
Walking is much more dangerous as well, and is tiring even with one child.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Comparison_to_...
Flying cars
Supersonic passenger flight (Concorde was a great beta product, but there was no commercial case for expanding it)
Commercial hovercraft probably deserve to be there at least as much as monorails too.
China is putting in their second maglev monorail.
The only new monorail in the US in decades is the one in Vegas.