It's disturbing that in the age when we can manipulate atoms, we still cannot do anything about religious fanaticism, and about religion itself for that matter.
One might think that mankind is just a bunch of stupid monkeys that happen to be very good with tools.
I would like to see if religion would not exist (so no heaven, no elaborate scripture, no virgins, no caliphate) if they would've picked another 'tribe' with such vigor and disinterest in their own and other lives.
(Following huuu here; we don't know if it was ISIS or another group yet)
Agreed, let's shelve this until we know. However unless it's just some lunatic (escaped from an asylum, coming out of nowhere, working alone etc; so no, i'm not calling all terrorists lunatics although, in some ways at least, of course they are) I am willing to bet, ISIS or another group/person, it was religion based.
Which was why I added the possibility of a lunatic. But I was indeed thinking of that. As I just left the Netherlands when that happened and people were quite shook up.
It is not really something you are allowed to say here it seems as even on HN are people who believe which boggles the mind; I would love to hear from them what a possible solution would be. I know Islam & Christianity etc are about peace these days, but they were and often are not; their bibles are full of violence, hate, prejudice etc that 'the enlightened' learned to interpret differently. The fact that humanity decided to interpret things differently in 'some cases' is weird in itself; who told them too etc? Maybe the intent was and is violence and death and pain for everything that is 'different'? Isn't that what hell is? And many (growing in the middle east and africa) believe that to be their religion. Unfortunately besides trying to say their religion is peaceful, which they don't read in their holy books, no real solutions come from those who are religious so doing something about religion itself would be the only solution. I would love to hear some other, practical, insights which exclude teaching people more so they abandon religion. For me personal the latter would be the best, but on the other hand, everyone should be able to live the way they want (within boundaries) and if you want to live like that then that is fine as long as you tolerate others who believe something else. Again; I don't see that happen unless you radically rewrite the holy books to be completely modern (which also includes all other things which people still literally believe, and which are thus part of the problem, like the creation in 6 days and so forth).
Religion only doesn't explain why the recent (post 9/11) surge in terrorists attacks. Also the world is far less religious than it was in the past, a very violent and vocal minority of people claiming to be religious are perpetrating these attacks while the majority of religious people condemn them. So it would be interesting to think about what changed, if not religion, that might cause this. I don't have a complete answer, not an expert in the subject but I'd venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response.
> venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response.
Agree to that. And I don't say that no religion would stop it, but I think it would help as then you don't have firm base to stand on and get others to follow you for.
Pretty soon attacks like these (Religiously-motivated muslim terrorists killing large numbers of innocent people) will be happening every week or even every day, I fear.
I think it's sad that everybody is already jumping into conclusions. The same happened with the missing flight MS804. Everybody was shouting 'IS attack' but we still don't know.
This is dangerous because it troubles our thinking.
If he had taken some time to build bombs at least he could have been caught. Now any nutjob will get a fucking truck and run over some crowd and nobody will be able to catch them.
The problem with this attack is that no sophisticated preparations were done, no weapons were needed, just a fanatic driving a truck and yet so many people died.
This makes things harder for counter terrorism. If terrorists operate independently and don't require special training (piloting a plane) or resources (e.g. explosives) how do you stop them before they attack?
I'm honestly wondering whether this indicates that the TSA torment is useless (there isn't even a remote chance of stopping them, so why bother), or whether it indicates that it is effective (they're switching methods because the first one no longer works).
The abysmal TSA performance data seems to strongly suggest the former, but I can already see some policymakers scramble towards the latter interpretation - we need more TSA, everywhere.
You are right but you are talking about world-wide education and decrease in inequality - is that even feasible? And say it is, we're talking about a project that will take a century to see fruition so what happens until then?
I am not convinced that your (possible) answer is compatible with "We are at war and I am a soldier - now you too will taste the reality of this situation." - Mohammad Sidique Khan (7/7 Bomber)?
Apparently he was "a quiet, studious boy who was never in trouble but was sometimes bullied. Friends from his teenage years recall a highly Westernised young man who insisted on being called "Sid". After school, he worked in low-level government clerical jobs before leaving to study for a degree in business studies at Leeds Metropolitan University. "
Sadly your and my 'fix' is unlikely to be a fix for everybody. The 'fix solution' makes a very large assumption about shared values across the world.
Every group has crazies and outliers, we can minimze their damage but they will always exist. Just because he made a statement doesn't mean it applies to anyone more than him.
From his description it is likely he was suffering from depression. He found a hook and tried to get out of the spiral by joining something he felt gave his life meaning and friendship. Just like someone joining AA, just like someone joining a local church or synagogue group. Sometimes people are desperate to just be with and around other people and they'll take what they can get.
With better mental health resources he would hopefully have been helped before he got to that state.
These terrorists tend to be well educated, with degrees in some cases, and have good understanding of the scriptures. Is not an education issue.
Nor it's a wealth issue. Attacks happen all over the world, rich or poor. These guys are not desperate because they lack money.
Nor they are, in most cases, insane (although we tend to think so).
It's an indoctrination issue. They've been told who the enemy was, since they were little. They were told liberal values are despicable, the end of "society". And they've been told any means necessary to end with these values is valid.
You need to end the indoctrination, right from where it starts: the neighborhood mosque.
The problem with the attacks like this that civilized people have enough technology to stop this from happening but don’t have enough political power to make changes. I wonder why civilized people allow this to happen again and again. The proper answer to this is giving more power to robots rather than humans. Why commercial truck can’t be stopped remotely? Why car engine continues to work after several hits? Why pilot door (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525) can’t be opened remotely? We need to give more power to software and make firewalls for barbarians.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 103 ms ] threadOne might think that mankind is just a bunch of stupid monkeys that happen to be very good with tools.
(Following huuu here; we don't know if it was ISIS or another group yet)
Nor would I describe that as terrorism; the nazi's were the elected party.
Of course, "tribes" have always painted their fight against the other tribe as God-approved. That doesn't mean that God actually plays a role.
Agree to that. And I don't say that no religion would stop it, but I think it would help as then you don't have firm base to stand on and get others to follow you for.
This is dangerous because it troubles our thinking.
Oh boy… What a world…
This makes things harder for counter terrorism. If terrorists operate independently and don't require special training (piloting a plane) or resources (e.g. explosives) how do you stop them before they attack?
The abysmal TSA performance data seems to strongly suggest the former, but I can already see some policymakers scramble towards the latter interpretation - we need more TSA, everywhere.
Everyone likes to paint bad guys as monsters, but they all started as little baby human beings just like the rest of us. Then something went wrong.
Lets fix those things that go wrong piece by piece and make this world a better place for everyone.
Apparently he was "a quiet, studious boy who was never in trouble but was sometimes bullied. Friends from his teenage years recall a highly Westernised young man who insisted on being called "Sid". After school, he worked in low-level government clerical jobs before leaving to study for a degree in business studies at Leeds Metropolitan University. "
Sadly your and my 'fix' is unlikely to be a fix for everybody. The 'fix solution' makes a very large assumption about shared values across the world.
From his description it is likely he was suffering from depression. He found a hook and tried to get out of the spiral by joining something he felt gave his life meaning and friendship. Just like someone joining AA, just like someone joining a local church or synagogue group. Sometimes people are desperate to just be with and around other people and they'll take what they can get.
With better mental health resources he would hopefully have been helped before he got to that state.
Remember, no monsters, just people.
Nor it's a wealth issue. Attacks happen all over the world, rich or poor. These guys are not desperate because they lack money.
Nor they are, in most cases, insane (although we tend to think so).
It's an indoctrination issue. They've been told who the enemy was, since they were little. They were told liberal values are despicable, the end of "society". And they've been told any means necessary to end with these values is valid.
You need to end the indoctrination, right from where it starts: the neighborhood mosque.
Easy. Stop them at the border.
Normally when someone failed in a company, it is fired. When a company failed in a market, it bankrupt.
In this sector (maybe it's the state level): more budget.
They would have done better to invest in the future of those stupid guys.
Sad.