This is unbelievably deplorable, it makes me question human decency...a young man's life has changed irrevocably because he developed a photo-sharing tool, not to mention the immeasurable harm and grief that it caused his father (who died knowing full well his son was in the worst of shape, stuck in solitary prison for a 'crime' that he did not commit, and would never get to pay his final respects) and causes his ailing mother...it is deplorable, even unthinkable...a lot certainly can be said about the excesses of Islamic fundamentalism and geopolitics and their role in precipitating countless such scenarios, but the systemic disregard for human welfare is shocking...having lost a parent while I was thousands of miles away, stuck in a world of hurt of my own, I can almost identify with what Malekpour endured...while we can not change the outcome of such cases around the world (and there are many), hopefully, we can help this one individual by spreading the word and saying a prayer or making a thoughtful petition...this more than sucks!
vishalzone2002, in the grand scheme of things, I am convinced that your facebook post helped...if only our (global) leaders were as concerned as you were...
I agree. I have also tried reaching out to few business folks I know in Canada. But either ways, irrespective of religion, anything like this should be alarming to everyone because it can pretty much make anyone's life upside down in a matter of days for no reason.
So we ask a snow board instructor to save a man held by an outrageous government? We also realize that there is so little gain for our little snow boarder. He will do nothing. Canada could probably do little in any case
Not really! The current Indian PM was son of a tea seller and i see people making fun of it on social media. I don't even know what to say to these kind of people.
Yeah, the nerve of someone for understanding what it's like to earn a paycheck and have to work for every dollar you have. How are you ever going to understand your electorate of 0.1% elites?
Perhaps you take the wrong message from this appeal to help out a young man (and family) whose life is forever changed. You and I are not the only ones eager to right this injustice- there are other individuals and organizations arguing his case, in Canada and, undoubtedly, in Tehran. This post, and many other like them, add up to something substantive, whether within the the preferred time-frame (Now!) or a little later on. Outrageous governments like Iran's cannot stand the test of time (admittedly, there will always be evil of one kind or another, just as, Jesus said, there will always be poverty) and it is events like these, and the pressure that they invoke from external (read international) and internal parties (rest assured that there are countless discussions on how these injustices can be resolved within the Iranian state, more so in the wake of the recent nuclear deal) that the infrastructure of oppression will eventually be dismantled. For instance, while the Arab Spring produced mixed results, numerous organizations trained activists for decades, one at a time (perhaps a little more, perhaps a little less), training them on organizing petitions, using Tor, launching demonstrations, keeping safe... What I am saying is that (and you will hear this a lot here, in other forums, and in everyday life, that is, if you haven't already) it all starts from somewhere- at the end of the day, everything counts.
Utterly touched reading about Kazemi: remarkable that one of her (alleged) murderers was charged with and later acquitted of "semi-intentional murder." What does that even mean? Is it even possible to "half intentionally and half accidentally" murder someone in your care/custody? I gather that this is a concept operational within Quranic law and is generally intended to apply to deaths that resulted from an action that would not threaten a life, but that definition cannot be reconciled with the fact that Kazemi had been so violently assaulted and horrifically murdered (and the unapologetic cover-up and sham trial that ensued). As a Kenyan youth, I hardly know anyone that has not been arrested by the police at one point in their lives (and this is, sadly, the case for many other young men in other parts of the country as well). As such, I have personally heard horror stories from women that I know who have endured unspeakable treatment at the hands of the almighty Kenyan Police Service- it seems that justice touches all races and all countries, except, if you believe it, North Korea, the Land of Human Achievement, Love and Joy. A lot has already been said about such circumstances and a lot more has to said to fight this particular form of injustice. One wonders how many Kazemis and Malekpours and Njoroges it would take to succeed.
To expand on your explanation of semi-intentional murder: in Iranian law, instead of first degree and second degree etc, murders are categorized as:
1. Non-intentional murder: when the defendant did not intend to harm the victim in any way. This is almost equivalent to manslaughter. The penalty includes financial compensation for the victim's next of kin and potential prison sentence. Example: vehicular manslaughter
2. Intentional murder: when the defendant knowingly and intentionally kills a person, whether premeditated or not. This is the closest to fist and second degree murder in US law. The penalty can be up to and including death sentence.
3. Semi-intentional murder: when the defendant did intend to harm the victim but did not intend to cause death. The penalty includes financial compensation and prison time and is more severe than non-intentional murder. Example: a person pushing a man during a fight, inadvertently causing him to fall from a balcony to his death.
It is scary to know that as a Canadian, I can get abducted simply for having contributed to open-source projects. It's even worst knowing that my government won't do anything to help if it happens.
No it doesn't if you are Brown they don't care much like for Mohamed Fahmy[0] or the most egregious one giving a _kid_ to the USA to jail and torture[1].
So, no, if you are not white Canada most likely won't care much unless some huge PR disaster.
According to Wikipedia Fahmy has been given a presidential pardon and released (he now lives in Vancouver). While I don't know the specifics of this case, presidential pardons in developing nations are usually the result of international pressure.
Khadr's case is tragic, but it's a bit disingenuous to claim his treatment was entirely on account of him being "brown". I'm pretty sure the fact he was fighting for the Taliban against his own country was part of the reason he wasn't properly advocated for.
There's also the case of two white men being beheaded by terrorists because the Canadian government refused to pay ransom. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/asia/philippines-canada-abu-sa... Their race didn't seem to affect the position of the government, despite much publicity.
They didn't give a kid to the US, he got taken from Afghanistan by the US after his shitty parents sent him away from Canada. I do agree he was a victim of a horrible family and that Canada should have protected him from the worse things done by the US (torture, ridiculous trials, detainment in gitmo), considering he was a 15 year old citizen of Canada at the time.
There is an old, two-year HN discussion [1] on the danger of traveling for hackers (logically, the thread morphed into a heated discussion on the Spanish Inquisition, because... Hacker News!) and it certainly is scary that open source contributors should now entertain the prospects of arrest...I mean, it is open source, people typically do not get paid for that sort of work...and they could get arrested! Kidding aside, scary indeed..
I do not think that Canada is the only such country to find itself in said position. Only recently, Australia was unsuccessful in preventing the execution of some of its citizens, convicted of drug smuggling in Indonesia. Here [2] is a handy tool that visualizes the percentage of foreign prisoners in most countries around the world while [3] reports on the number of non-nationals facing death penalties mainly in Asia. Also came across these news reports on the many (100s) of Canadians that are in foreign prisons [4].
Question is, how exactly did they get to him so quickly after his arrival? Perhaps they de-anonymized his code [5]. Perhaps the State has a huge database of persons of interest [6]. And by the way, how did they figure out that it was his software that was getting used by porn site webmasters?
The justification is based on human rights. Not on citizenship. Any country can pressure Iran to do the right thing, but Canada seems to be the one the coder preferred to live in.
Previous Canadian administrations, and the Canadian parliament, have included Saeed's case when criticizing and negotiating with Iran.: it was that stance that in part led to Saeed's previous (two!) death sentences being commuted to life. A return to Canada's previous position would undoubtedly help Saeed now.
No he can't. If the reasons for Saeed's arrest are truly as said in the article, it would be immense loss of face to any Iranian politicians to release him. So they won't.
If Trudeau does anything to this stuff, there are three options:
1. Give up and lose face yourself.
2. Threaten Iran and lose public image of Canada as the do-good nice guy.
3. Exchange Saeed to something valuable. This would paint Saeed as spy and would save face of everybody involved in that regard. What would be sweet enough for Iran? What Canada has to offer?
Lifting trade sanctions prematurely or offering nuclear goods and ballistic missile designs. This would in turn make every ally of Canada pretty mad.
At a broad level, you're correct: prisoners like Saeed are often pawns in a wider geopolitical game (in fact, there's an upcoming documentary on this aspect coming out soon, which includes a detailed look at Saeed's case: https://www.facebook.com/filmcheckmate/ ).
However, these negotiations don't work at such a dramatic level as you suggest. For instance, Saeed was originally sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted to life following external pressure. Mostafa Azizi, the Canadian filmmaker, was released in April.
Canada frequently makes strong protestations to Iran, and is currently in the middle of debating whether to restore diplomatic relations with the country. The fate of Canadian prisoners in Iran is clearly tied up with this, including that of Homa Hoodfar, who was arrested earlier this year.
While I can't predict what the results of those negotiations would be, whether Saeed is included in the names of prisoners being discussed would have a relatively marginal effect on the cost to either Iran or Canada. What's disturbing is that the previous Canadian government appeared to include Saeed in that equation, whereas Stephane Dion has implied that the new government does not.
(The other point I'd make is that the Iranian government, like most governments, is not a monolithic organisation. In particular, the parts of the political administration attempting to improve trade and diplomatic relations with the West is not the part that targeted and sentenced Saeed. Much of the real negotiations and power dynamics are internal to Iran. But that can be positive as well as negative. My impression is that Saeed's detention has served its political purpose for the more strident groups. I don't think, at this stage, years after the original prosecution, that releasing him would be an immense loss of face.
But still releasing will cost something to Canada. Probably something agreed behind closed doors as a part of package deal. I'm afraid this is one of those cases where you have to trust politicians. Trudeau or some diplomat will have to calculate what solution is good for the big picture and that may require sacrificing individuals.
31 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 75.6 ms ] threadOr hell, why not just auction the PM's office off to the highest bidder?
Or hell, why not bring the Divine Right of Kings back?
Canadian journalist Zahra Kazemi was beaten to death in 2003 in that same prison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi
1. Non-intentional murder: when the defendant did not intend to harm the victim in any way. This is almost equivalent to manslaughter. The penalty includes financial compensation for the victim's next of kin and potential prison sentence. Example: vehicular manslaughter
2. Intentional murder: when the defendant knowingly and intentionally kills a person, whether premeditated or not. This is the closest to fist and second degree murder in US law. The penalty can be up to and including death sentence.
3. Semi-intentional murder: when the defendant did intend to harm the victim but did not intend to cause death. The penalty includes financial compensation and prison time and is more severe than non-intentional murder. Example: a person pushing a man during a fight, inadvertently causing him to fall from a balcony to his death.
Makes a big difference.
So, no, if you are not white Canada most likely won't care much unless some huge PR disaster.
[0]: http://www.canadalandshow.com/podcast/canada-failing-mohamed... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr
Khadr's case is tragic, but it's a bit disingenuous to claim his treatment was entirely on account of him being "brown". I'm pretty sure the fact he was fighting for the Taliban against his own country was part of the reason he wasn't properly advocated for.
There's also the case of two white men being beheaded by terrorists because the Canadian government refused to pay ransom. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/asia/philippines-canada-abu-sa... Their race didn't seem to affect the position of the government, despite much publicity.
Edit:Clarity
I do not think that Canada is the only such country to find itself in said position. Only recently, Australia was unsuccessful in preventing the execution of some of its citizens, convicted of drug smuggling in Indonesia. Here [2] is a handy tool that visualizes the percentage of foreign prisoners in most countries around the world while [3] reports on the number of non-nationals facing death penalties mainly in Asia. Also came across these news reports on the many (100s) of Canadians that are in foreign prisons [4].
Question is, how exactly did they get to him so quickly after his arrival? Perhaps they de-anonymized his code [5]. Perhaps the State has a huge database of persons of interest [6]. And by the way, how did they figure out that it was his software that was getting used by porn site webmasters?
1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8976882
2. http://chartsbin.com/view/8ns
3. https://www.hri.global/files/2011/09/14/IHRA_DeathPenaltyRep...
4. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/10/27/over_1590_can... ; http://globalnews.ca/news/2542128/not-enough-being-done-to-h... ; http://o.canada.com/news/almost-2000-canadians-held-in-forei...
5. https://www.princeton.edu/~aylinc/papers/caliskan-islam_dean... ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMa04HovKfs
6. https://www.iranhumanrights.org/wp-content/uploads/Internet_... ; http://voiceproject.org/post_news/inside-irans-judicial-crac... ; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12488420; https://opennet.net/sites/opennet.net/files/ONI_NameofGod_1_...
(I'm the author of the original EFF post)
No he can't. If the reasons for Saeed's arrest are truly as said in the article, it would be immense loss of face to any Iranian politicians to release him. So they won't.
If Trudeau does anything to this stuff, there are three options:
1. Give up and lose face yourself.
2. Threaten Iran and lose public image of Canada as the do-good nice guy.
3. Exchange Saeed to something valuable. This would paint Saeed as spy and would save face of everybody involved in that regard. What would be sweet enough for Iran? What Canada has to offer?
Lifting trade sanctions prematurely or offering nuclear goods and ballistic missile designs. This would in turn make every ally of Canada pretty mad.
However, these negotiations don't work at such a dramatic level as you suggest. For instance, Saeed was originally sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted to life following external pressure. Mostafa Azizi, the Canadian filmmaker, was released in April.
Canada frequently makes strong protestations to Iran, and is currently in the middle of debating whether to restore diplomatic relations with the country. The fate of Canadian prisoners in Iran is clearly tied up with this, including that of Homa Hoodfar, who was arrested earlier this year.
While I can't predict what the results of those negotiations would be, whether Saeed is included in the names of prisoners being discussed would have a relatively marginal effect on the cost to either Iran or Canada. What's disturbing is that the previous Canadian government appeared to include Saeed in that equation, whereas Stephane Dion has implied that the new government does not.
(The other point I'd make is that the Iranian government, like most governments, is not a monolithic organisation. In particular, the parts of the political administration attempting to improve trade and diplomatic relations with the West is not the part that targeted and sentenced Saeed. Much of the real negotiations and power dynamics are internal to Iran. But that can be positive as well as negative. My impression is that Saeed's detention has served its political purpose for the more strident groups. I don't think, at this stage, years after the original prosecution, that releasing him would be an immense loss of face.
But still releasing will cost something to Canada. Probably something agreed behind closed doors as a part of package deal. I'm afraid this is one of those cases where you have to trust politicians. Trudeau or some diplomat will have to calculate what solution is good for the big picture and that may require sacrificing individuals.
I simply added "I am a Canadian Citizen and voter" to the subject line.
Can't hurt.