Not to be that guy, but what happened to being a decent human being and just getting up for pregnant women and elderly people? Do we really need an app for that now?
As a founder I really do see lot's of value in technology to drive our society forwards, but I just can't wrap my head around some stuff..
Also simply asking people to give over their seat. That's exactly what the app does. Why not ask people directly? Just to avoid having to talk to them? Seems very strange to me.
Imagine public transport was full of 90% polite people who would happily give up their seat, and 10% assholes who'd get in your face for no good reason. And you couldn't tell those people apart.
If all the polite people had the app installed, using it would let you address them and avoid the 10%.
Imagine if public transport was full of 90% polite people, and 10% full of selfish people, who'd say "sorry, no". Then this app wouldn't have to exist.
Or just ask loud enough so that the potential-asshole and his two neighbors hear, giving you a 99.9% chance of getting a seat, and a 0% chance of getting chewed out because no-one acts like a dick to a pregnant woman on a crowded subway for obvious reasons.
If you're adequately introverted/shy (which is me, most of the time) or just feeling tired/exhausted/drained (which I imagine is not atypical for expectant mothers), then I can understand not having the energy to ask something of a stranger on the train.
I use the tube every day and rarely see a situation where people don't instinctively stand for pregnant or elderly people. People don't want to talk to one another but we locals are generally courteous.
To play devil's advocate, early on, pregnancy may not be visible, and even when it appears to be visible...they might just be fat. And you really don't want to make that particular mistake.
The "easy" solution is that it needs to be acceptable to say "no" when someone asks you for your seat, regardless of whatever outwardly obvious physical conditions the two parties have.
I wasn't really under the impression we were strictly discussing the app anymore. But on that subject, I do think the cure may be worse than the disease in this case - this app helps alleviate a minor inconvenience in the short term by making it easier to avoid human contact, the lack of which is arguably the reason people aren't behaving well in the first place.
I have literally once offered my seat to a pregnant woman on the Tube in London and it turned out that she was just overweight round the middle and not pregnant. It was extremely embarrassing for both of us.
I greatly appreciate the women who wear these badges: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx because it makes it unambiguous. It can honestly be hard on a packed London underground train to tell the difference between a pregnant woman and someone who is simply overweight.
My rule is, if they use a cane or walker, are visibly hunched, are steadying themselves with both hands, or seem to be actively looking for a seat, I get up. Otherwise no. (The older population in Boston is pretty fit; if I offered my seat to everyone with grey hair I think I'd insult quite a few perfectly hale people.)
Also, pregnant women tend to hold their bellies. Overweight people don't. And if you accidentally offer your seat to someone who's chubby and has indigestion, well just tell them they looked like they had indigestion.
My approach is, if someone I would give my seat up to is standing near my seat, I'll get up and move without saying anything, as if I'm getting off at the next station.
If they're actually just fat, or if they don't consider themselves old, or if they don't speak English, or they're upset at my presumption they're weaker than me, or they're mentally ill or whatever, no problem.
Of course, if there are people between them and your seat, there's a chance someone different will take your seat. So it's not an infallible solution.
I'd only been in London about 2 days, I jumped up like a good boy scout, conscious of the fact I was in the "priority seat" (for those outside of London our tubes have the nearest seats to the door reserved for those less able or up the duff).
This lady burst into tears. I tried to apologise, then just got off and walked.
Since then I've firmly put the impetus on those in need to ask.
I don't see the problem here. Those rare times I'm on a crowded train (I don't normally live in a city with such things), I frequently offer my seat to women, pregnant or not. Them being pregnant isn't important, only that they're female. Sorry if that's old-fashioned, but a lot of women do still seem to appreciate such gestures from men.
If I spot someone whom I think might be pregnant I just stand up without comment. I don't want to make the mistake someone made with a female relative of mine: "Oh, are you expecting? Would you like to sit down?", to which she replied with a smile "No thanks, I'm just fat".
And I thought it's nerds who are socially awkward...
I can't see such things as anything else as trying to use technology to avoid the possibility of embarrassment that comes with dealing with other people.
This is what I do, and it wins for all sorts of reasons, not just the avoidance of mistaking flab for a foetus.
If you are doing this, the likelihood is that there is someone more in need of a seat than you, and possibly for invisible reasons (e.g. carrying a minor leg injury, first trimester of pregnancy, or just tired).
Some people in a certain age range (mid-late 60s) may be grateful for a seat, but don't want to think of themselves as old enough to warrant being offered a seat.
The person you think you are getting up for may not want to sit. When my wife was pregnant, she was inundated with offers of seats. She often refused, because on shorter journeys, the effort involved in sitting down and standing up again was greater than that of just standing all the way.
Agreed. Especially that they're charging £3.99 for it.
I'm also surprised to see this on BBC of all places, since Transport for London specifically makes "Baby on Board" buttons for pregnant women to wear to make it more obvious for commuters.
https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx
I think some commuters might be just oblivious to the need some of pregnant and elderly folks, without actually trying to intentionally deny them a seat. I feel that raising awareness instead of reverting to an app, is a better long-term approach.
When my wife was pregnant (this was in London) she would specifically ask people if she could have their seat. Nobody ever refused, nor did they even appear annoyed. Even in very crowded carriages.
The last time I tried to offer my seat to a obviously pregnant women she responded with: "No thanks, I'm pregnant, not a cripple.". So yeah it's complicated sometimes ...
Of course, you can't argue when they're pregnant. My wife's 8 months pregnant with twins at the moment; I think she's probably at the point of admitting defeat but she's so enormous now people dive off their seats from a mile away anyway.
Not a hope in hell of getting her to pay £4 for this, or of anyone in a seat having the app I'd imagine either.
I think the rationale is not that a woman can't stand when she's pregnant but that in sitting lowers risk for an accident - e.g. the train suddenly stopping unexpectedly or even people just having more people bunched around you when standing. When sitting, you have a more defined space around you and people tend to stand further away from people who are sitting.
The detail you and a lot of other respondents seem to be missing is that they actually did do research (at least it sounds like they ran some focus groups), and one of the things they discovered is that pregnant women were feeling the most ill and in need of a seat the most were early in their pregnancy and not showing yet. I'm sure many would feel uncomfortable asking someone to move for them, so having an established non-confrontational mechanism could help. On the other hand, I would echo many of the sentiments in this thread - I make it a point to stand unless there are many empty seats, but I've also been spontaneously engaged for an argument by a women who was insulted that I stood after she boarded the train. So I often just stand the whole time to avoid it all.
I don't get it. The whole concept only works if there are people who have deliberately installed the free version so that they actually get the notifications. Seems like a whole lot of work and £3.99 for a very small chance of anyone actually noticing.
If you're pregnant and want my seat then just ask me - I'll always happily give it up.
Exactly, there are a lot of requirements for this to succeed, both having the app installed, bluetooth on, location services on (does it work on the tube?) and being within a short distance of each other.
I think the money spent creating this app would have been more useful going straight to the charity.
Pregnant women may well pay for the app, but I think the only reason others would pay that much, for an app that will probably never actually alert them, would be to donate money to charity.
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the company behind this app did no research into the problem. It's possible that they didn't, but it's also possible that they asked pregnant women what problems they faced and discovered that actually getting a seat by asking people doesn't work as often as we'd like to think. That would be a really interesting discovery - on the face of it the problem shouldn't exist, but maybe it actually does, and it's a big problem. Maybe women have found they've asked people and been verbally abused in response, so they're reticent about asking again in the future.
The lesson here for me, as a man who will never face the problem of not finding a seat when I'm pregnant, is that there are huge problem spaces that I have no insight in to.
This is an minimum viable product for a problem that I don't understand or have knowledge of. It won't work in every situation, and there are some huge problems to resolve in getting enough traction for it to be genuinely useful, but if this problem exists (and I'm willing to accept that it does) then I see this as a positive step forwards.
I doubt you have absolutely no insight into it - you've probably given up your seat a few times. I have at least, and usually without a single word being spoken. I've witnessed it and done it dozens of times, yet I've never seen anyone get belligerent about it.
I've seen a pregnant woman ask for someone to give up their seat maybe 20 times in my life. A pregnant woman probably has more experience of that situation in a week. So, while I can't think of an occasion where I've witnessed a woman asking for a seat being denied one, I have such a small amount of experience of the problem that my input is worthless.
This is a really common situation with most startup ideas. If you ask people who have no information about the problem what they think you'll get feedback that isn't worth anything. This is one of the reasons why getting good feedback is hard.
There are, broadly, two questions here. I don't have any insight on the first, but I do on the second.
One is whether the existing solution (asking) works well. I wouldn't know, and I'm fully prepared to believe that it doesn't. The old "breaching experiments" about asking for someone's subway seat come to mind - asking for a seat while pregnant is very different from asking for one with no reason, but there's still a strong impulse against asking strangers for concessions. Add in the possibility of a hostile response, and I certainly won't be making fun of anyone for "not just talking".
But the second question is whether the solution works any better. The requirements for that are "people download the app, keep location and bluetooth on, then notice the alert and respond". That, simply put, isn't going to happen. You don't have to tell me what the product is - just knowing it's a two-sided 'market', where one side is "do all of these tasks without a reward", I can tell you that adoption will never be high enough to count on the app (unless someone enforces its use).
I don't object to someone making this app, though I'm a bit uncomfortable with them charging for a product which will work approximately never (even for charity). But it feels more like an art/awareness project than an actual tool - it's motivation to consider the problem, but I can't see any road for it to be a solution.
You have to remember that this is a British app and we're probably not the best at things like asking for seats. As somebody who has been pregnant twice (and in the UK),I still can't really see what improvement this is over the baby on board badges. I don't think it is something I would have paid for - sometimes people just don't notice you certainly, but the chance of somebody having it installed in the same carriage seems pretty remote.
My pregnant wife has a similar app, it is called 'her mouth'. It is revolutionary: you go up to people and you simply state 'Hello, I am sorry, would you mind letting me sit here? I am pregnant.'
What industry is she trying disrupt? Who are the early adopters? How many months to series A or angel investment, or will this be a crowdfunded innovation? Are we aiming for a possible unicorn/narwhal/decacorn here?
My wife has that app too, but has the enhanced US Midwest edition. After 4-5 months, she doesn't even have to use her mouth anymore. People just offer her their seat. Best thing is, it's free!
I read "New seat alert app for pregnant computers" and was disapointed after following the link. Such clickbait. So wow.
(Also, I don't get why you'd spend 4 pounds and hope for other people who are not pregnant to have done so as well, even though the same can be achieved by speaking. Not everything needs an app.)
This seems like technology in search of a problem, and they've chosen a problem that already has a solution--just ask. God forbid we speak to each other.
I like how everybody here would of course, no problem, don't-even-ask give their seat to pregnant women.
And then when pregnant women ask for seats out of exhaustion and embarassment, they hear "no, that's my seat", and it's the elderly lady two rows farther who gets up.
I'm not sure it will work. Did the BBC even test the app? A few pregnant women might know about the app, but the rest of passenger in a bus or on a subway won't likely have it. Or they have it because they are pregnant.
Giving profits to charity... It would be good to know what that actually is, it could be 1p per download when the accountants are done. The article has conflicting claims in it!
You could discuss the viability of how and if the app would work in a real setting. But maybe the app already set out to do what it was meant to do - to raise awareness about pregnant commuters (check - they got covered by the BBC), or (cynical, but more realistic) - the innovation agency got to show off how innovative they are and can use some nice "featured by the BBC" in their marketing communication.
This app is just a fine publicity gimmick on the part of the developers. This happens a lot! Will get loads of news stories, Facebook shares and likes but make not a joy of difference to anything.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 155 ms ] threadAs a founder I really do see lot's of value in technology to drive our society forwards, but I just can't wrap my head around some stuff..
If all the polite people had the app installed, using it would let you address them and avoid the 10%.
I greatly appreciate the women who wear these badges: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx because it makes it unambiguous. It can honestly be hard on a packed London underground train to tell the difference between a pregnant woman and someone who is simply overweight.
Also, pregnant women tend to hold their bellies. Overweight people don't. And if you accidentally offer your seat to someone who's chubby and has indigestion, well just tell them they looked like they had indigestion.
If they're actually just fat, or if they don't consider themselves old, or if they don't speak English, or they're upset at my presumption they're weaker than me, or they're mentally ill or whatever, no problem.
Of course, if there are people between them and your seat, there's a chance someone different will take your seat. So it's not an infallible solution.
I'd only been in London about 2 days, I jumped up like a good boy scout, conscious of the fact I was in the "priority seat" (for those outside of London our tubes have the nearest seats to the door reserved for those less able or up the duff).
This lady burst into tears. I tried to apologise, then just got off and walked.
Since then I've firmly put the impetus on those in need to ask.
I can't see such things as anything else as trying to use technology to avoid the possibility of embarrassment that comes with dealing with other people.
If you are doing this, the likelihood is that there is someone more in need of a seat than you, and possibly for invisible reasons (e.g. carrying a minor leg injury, first trimester of pregnancy, or just tired).
Some people in a certain age range (mid-late 60s) may be grateful for a seat, but don't want to think of themselves as old enough to warrant being offered a seat.
The person you think you are getting up for may not want to sit. When my wife was pregnant, she was inundated with offers of seats. She often refused, because on shorter journeys, the effort involved in sitting down and standing up again was greater than that of just standing all the way.
I'm also surprised to see this on BBC of all places, since Transport for London specifically makes "Baby on Board" buttons for pregnant women to wear to make it more obvious for commuters. https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx
I think some commuters might be just oblivious to the need some of pregnant and elderly folks, without actually trying to intentionally deny them a seat. I feel that raising awareness instead of reverting to an app, is a better long-term approach.
When my wife was pregnant (this was in London) she would specifically ask people if she could have their seat. Nobody ever refused, nor did they even appear annoyed. Even in very crowded carriages.
Of course, you can't argue when they're pregnant. My wife's 8 months pregnant with twins at the moment; I think she's probably at the point of admitting defeat but she's so enormous now people dive off their seats from a mile away anyway.
Not a hope in hell of getting her to pay £4 for this, or of anyone in a seat having the app I'd imagine either.
"Why should I have to give up my seat to someone just because they didn't use birth control?"
If you're pregnant and want my seat then just ask me - I'll always happily give it up.
Pregnant women may well pay for the app, but I think the only reason others would pay that much, for an app that will probably never actually alert them, would be to donate money to charity.
The lesson here for me, as a man who will never face the problem of not finding a seat when I'm pregnant, is that there are huge problem spaces that I have no insight in to.
This is an minimum viable product for a problem that I don't understand or have knowledge of. It won't work in every situation, and there are some huge problems to resolve in getting enough traction for it to be genuinely useful, but if this problem exists (and I'm willing to accept that it does) then I see this as a positive step forwards.
This is a really common situation with most startup ideas. If you ask people who have no information about the problem what they think you'll get feedback that isn't worth anything. This is one of the reasons why getting good feedback is hard.
One is whether the existing solution (asking) works well. I wouldn't know, and I'm fully prepared to believe that it doesn't. The old "breaching experiments" about asking for someone's subway seat come to mind - asking for a seat while pregnant is very different from asking for one with no reason, but there's still a strong impulse against asking strangers for concessions. Add in the possibility of a hostile response, and I certainly won't be making fun of anyone for "not just talking".
But the second question is whether the solution works any better. The requirements for that are "people download the app, keep location and bluetooth on, then notice the alert and respond". That, simply put, isn't going to happen. You don't have to tell me what the product is - just knowing it's a two-sided 'market', where one side is "do all of these tasks without a reward", I can tell you that adoption will never be high enough to count on the app (unless someone enforces its use).
I don't object to someone making this app, though I'm a bit uncomfortable with them charging for a product which will work approximately never (even for charity). But it feels more like an art/awareness project than an actual tool - it's motivation to consider the problem, but I can't see any road for it to be a solution.
Alexa: "Hello citizen, please give up your seat. This woman is pregnant."
Isn't that what the article says?
(Also, I don't get why you'd spend 4 pounds and hope for other people who are not pregnant to have done so as well, even though the same can be achieved by speaking. Not everything needs an app.)
This app is a perfect example.
https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx
And then when pregnant women ask for seats out of exhaustion and embarassment, they hear "no, that's my seat", and it's the elderly lady two rows farther who gets up.
Edit: having said that, if they are looking at their phone or reading then maybe this app would work.