A funny HN story here: back in my last month or so at the company, when the seeds of this idea were germinating, I was going to call this NotiPhone, but had some minor worries about Apple going after be for selling something that was not iPhones. I had mentally gotten over that and was going to register the domains as soon as I got back a three day stint at the office... and on the last day, Notifo (YC10) launched. Going with NotiPhone struck me as professionally discourteous so I went back to my old trusty generic.
(I did end up buying the domains eventually because, hey, you never know.)
Good for you man. I liked your bingo card deal and this looks like it has even more potential. Nice job of identifying a market need that can be made easier through your app.
"Prior to the appointment, we’ll automatically remind your customer of the date and time of their appointment."
"we"? Aren't you alone in this venture?... Or it's just a "professionalness" thing? I'm kind of torn between "I" and "we" for projects completely made by just one guy...
Saying "I'll remind your customer" sounds like it's one guy in a basement calling out manually. Whenever you're talking about an automatic service I think it's fine to say "we", because if you think about the system as a person you're always at least two people :-)
I've always done business communications in the plural, because it sounds better to my ear and I think three seconds worrying about this issue is two seconds too many. (It was a frequent, frequent bone of contention on the Business of Software forums a few years ago.)
Note that I already had three freelancers working on this, so it is literally accurate, if you're feeling dissatisfied by that explanation.
Pre-existing relationships plus http://www.fiverr.com . I think almost everybody could get an idea for something business-related they could do with $5 on that site. Sure, why not have your own rap jingle.
Do you really expect businesses to buy software from "just one guy"? I's would make it feel a little too personal in my opinion. And to some extent, there is more than just Patrick involved in this: Twilio makes the calls, not Patrick.
Well, if you are indeed 100% alone in providing a service, I feel it's a bit of a misrepresentation to say "we" just because you want businesses as customers. But that's just a feeling.
He responded to you to explain this. He certainly isn't alone and even if he were, there's nothing wrong with this. People expect "we" from businesses. This is a business.
I don't like this Patrick, sorry. No "congrats" and "pat on the back" here.
You know, I do get a personal call from my dentist, carpet cleaner, and my kids' doctor before an appointment. I call my customers before meeting with them too.
But what a waste of time for all of us right? Why not send out this automated voice mail message instead:
"Don't be late! I don't have time to call you, but you better have time to meet and PAY me."
Nice.
I think you'll be able to sell it, but it seems like a DIS-service to me.
Also, NOTHING pisses my wife off more than a voice mail from an automated system.
Just yesterday she got one from a local service we donate clothes to (pretty sure it was them again), and she let out a throaty roar in the kitchen because she hates them so much, she wants a different service now.
I upmodded you from zero, because negative feedback is even more valuable than positive feedback, and it probably does Patrick a disservice to try to filter out the negative stuff.
That said: we get automated calls from a couple of different things in our life, and while I can't say that I love the calls, they are effective --- they actually change behavior.
I agree actually. Sears automatically called us about a service call. And it wasn't a big deal.
That being said, when we bought a stove at Home Depot, we received a personal call from the truck driver delivering the product to see if we were ready and where would be the most convenient place for him to carry it into the house.
So, automation probably does work sometimes, but if it's not all the time, then it's just an administration problem (as noted in the thread above)
Ya.. I wonder if you could crowdsource something like this? Pay folks a smallish commission to place the calls for you through a Twilio interface. I know of some answering services that work more or less that way, and they seem to do well. I'd imagine you can get a $2-$4 (somewhere in that range) per call, so pay a $1 commission per call. Use Twilio to record the calls to audit quality.
If you get 10 customers a day, you treat each one like they're a duke; if 100 a day, each one is made to feel like a person. 1000 customers per day are a vague blur, an avalanche of humanity of whom only occasional glimpses are clear, 10,000 customers a day is statistics, and 10 Million per day is an abstraction.
Different businesses deal with different customers and different customer volumes change the shape and functionality of the organizations that serve them.
The question for you is, at what scale does a business built on somewhat random customer service experiences work?
You're welcome to your opinion. The market is big enough to accommodate folks of your persuasion as well as folks of mine. (If some day you are getting customers because of an outspoken dogged resistance to using Appointment Reminder, trust me, we'll both be thrilled.)
I didn't bother, since estimating market size is witchcraft.
The American Massage Therapy association has 57,000 members. Massage therapists are a small portion of the overall personal/professional services industry. 57k / small number = big number. Does it matter if it is 400k or 4 million or 40 million? Not to me. (If I was going for VC, yeah, there are 40 million -- you can see it right here on this chart in the up and to the right portion.)
There needs to be a nice balance between the needs of the business, and the needs of the customer. As a customer, you need to recognize that businesses aren't doing this to annoy you, and that missed appointments are something that they cannot afford. As a business, they need to recognize that services like this can be off-putting to their customers.
That said, perhaps a good balance would be for the business to integrate their policies with a system like this: allow customers to exempt themselves from the reminder system either in part or in whole, and then make sure those customers get charged extra if they miss an appointment.
If someone had this service of Patrick's, and then they had "some" customers on it, and other not, then it becomes an administration nightmare. Your staff would still have to take the time to look-up everyone and see who's getting called and who's not, and it's one more thing to keep track of. This burns a hole right through the benefits of automation.
If you don't realize that not showing up for an appointment is extremely discourteous and more importantly costing someone money, then yes you do have something you need to recognize.
Because thats what appointment means. How would a customer feel if the service provider books say 5 customers at the same time and provide services to only one.
When you book an appointment with a service provider, service provider cannot book anyone else, EVEN if some other customer is interested to obtain their services at the same time.
You lost me there. You said that it is not discourteous and doesn’t cost someone money when the customer doesn’t show up to the appointment, right? What does this answer have to do with that?
But I hate interruptions. Make the interruption as quick as possible. To me the advantage of getting a recording is the minimal interaction. I don't have to exchange greetings with a robot. So make it fast.
I think the SMS notifications could be better received. I was extremely happy myself when the company installing my ADSL sent two SMSes prior to that day -- I probably would have forgotten otherwise.
Perhaps the service could build in some kind of opt-out option? It could either be at the point of making the appointment, or after receiving the first reminder.
Actually, overall I love the idea! I think there is tremendous value in this service.
I would just want one additional feature: allowing people to opt-out. A lot of appointments are recurring, take hair-cut for an example. This will work effectively for the first time, however some customers (who actually remember appointment) may started fearing that they would get a useless call even though they perfectly remember where and when they need to go.
So, a simple Press 7 if you don't wish to have automated reminders next time will be a great addition.
We recently set up a free diet program that also involved behavioral change. The conversion rate on the site in terms of signups were great (about 70% actually). We were also tracking a couple of products that were integral with the diet that we referred our customers to and the sales weren't quite close to matching the numbers we were seeing.
Long story short, we tried asking for phone numbers, and those who provided were given calls a couple of days after signing up, and the response rate has shot up exponentially, including sales of the products. The people didn't mind the calls either, even after we asked if we could call them once a week to follow up on progress.
Of course, these were personal calls, not automated ones.
Email reminders are also automated, yet you are more likely to miss it because we're not glued to our monitors 24/7. A phonecall however is more likely to get your attention. There's been many times I've missed or forgotten something that could have been prevented with a short call or text message.
There certainly are some people that are put off by automated voice systems. Its hard to say if that will have a large negative impact on Patrick as he's an extra step upstream from the annoyed person.
An idea to counter this would be soothing and pleasant voice templates that may disarm those easily set off by automated voice systems.
”You know, I do get a personal call from my dentist, carpet cleaner, and my kids' doctor before an appointment. I call my customers before meeting with them too.”
You do? Must be a American thing. I never ever heard of that.
There is an existing company that does exactly this - my dentist just started using them. Some time before each dental appointment I now receive an email and an sms reminding me and asking me if I'm still going. I can either click "yes" or "no" links in the email, or respond to the sms with "yes" or "no".
Everything is white-labeled, but if you like I can ask my dentist who they're using.
I receive sms messages from both a taxi service(on way/arrived) I use and a physiotherapy clinic(reminder that you have an appointment tomorrow at ...) that I use. I find these useful and am grateful to receive them. On the other hand if they were automated voice calls I would hate them with a passion, I just can't describe how much I hate being called by an automatic service. SMS seems like the right way to go. Given that you do that I think you have a valuable service that I would be happy to use.
I built the same thing 8 years ago but it did the opposite of what patio is doing... it called/texted/emailed the dentist (or dentist's secretary) and told them to call their customer.
As someone else mentioned, his monthly enterprise account seems priced too high. You can buy full practice management software for this much.
I'd love to hear more about your struggles with this, Patrick. I suspect this is an undertreated topic.
bingocardcreator. appointmentreminder. These names leave little doubt about what it's about. I've also noticed a lot of TV shows do this very well too: Undercover Boss, Pawn Stars, Desperate Housewives.
So what should the rest of us do? Go with a "trusty generic" so we don't have to lose attention trying to explain what it is? Or come up with something short and slick, with far fewer SEO synonyms?
Counterexample: classic kung fu movies. You rent "Snake and Crane Styles of Shaolin" because you want to see people beating each other up using the snake and crane styles of Shaolin. (insert "Snakes on a Crane" joke)
You're obviously going for maximal SEO with a name like that. Good luck getting ranked highly. I know you're a whiz at that, but that keyword looks pretty darn competitive:
http://www.google.com/search?q=appointment+reminder
I'm guessing you'll have to rely a lot on your AdWords kung-fu that you talk about so much, because I think customer acquisition is going to be your toughest challenge.
Edit: Actually, I partially take that back. The ads look competitive, but the results look penetrable. Your blog post announcing the site is already #21 for that term, so you appear to be in good shape.
Edit 2: Although you may do well for SEO, I can't help but wonder if you're taking a hit on word of mouth sales with such a generic name that doesn't use a .com. "Have you tried Appointment Reminder Dot Org? My sales increased 10%!" It make work, but I think you're putting all your eggs in the SEO /SEM basket.
One last thought on this: In DropBox's lessons learned slides they said they had a lot of trouble getting customers via search because that was just a way to harvest demand, not create it. This product feels like it may fall in the same trap. DropBox at least had a 2-syllable name to fall back on for word of mouth marketing, but this has an 8 syllable name and could have more trouble.
I will second the parent comment. I feel that there's a large number of people who have needs for this kind of product, but haven't recognized it: the need is latent.
Unlike active needs (the bingo card creator program, for example), people don't just go searching the internet for latent needs. The number of people who are actively searching for "appointment reminders" are probably less than 1% of the total number of people who have the need. That's why latent needs are very hard to harvest in online marketing. How are you going to tackle this problem?
[bingo cards] is also surprisingly competitive. The trick is, he's not going to go for [appointment reminder]. He's going to go for hundreds of variants of the term.
I'm really interested in hearing what the content marketing angle is for appointments though. Bingo cards had a natural content fit.
I assume you've noticed this already but just in case it is a quirk of my browser or something, the two panes of your main marquee are of different heights, leading to a little bit of a bounce when you scroll between them.
Also, for what it is worth, in this user's opinion:
1) I'd prefer you disable or hide (probably disable) the green scroll arrows when you are already at the edge of the ribbon. (Ie., when you are on "Apppoinment Reminders" the arrow on the left is gray and disabled while the one on the right is green; when you are on "Who is it for?" the arrow on the left is green while the one the right is gray.) The infinite loop aspect confuses and annoys my reptile brain. I expect to see new content when I click "next". (The fact that your image is a placeholder may be making this worse for me. If I saw the same image crop up again it may be more obvious that this is cycling.)
2) I'd make more of each column on the pricing page clickable. Maybe it just that I'm using a short screen, but scrolling down to the "Sign Up" link seems a pain, especially when it looks as is if "Small Business" is already selected due to the highlight.
3) Personally, I really dislike the green of the Small Business column heading on the pricing page.
Since you're keen on testing, have you user tested the pricing page yet, or is this just a first cut?
Don't let the naysayer get to you. I think the idea definitely has merit for lot of small businesses like hair salons, etc. that are often one-man (or one-woman) bands. IMHO that seems like a very long tail.
Otherfolks have pointed out that there are competing services. I think the secret here might be to be friendly, non-technical, and drop dead simple.
"HIPAA Compliance Guaranteed" seems like a strong statement to make. Just out of curiosity, can you explain what you mean by that? I mean, if you're allowing "custom reminders" how do you know they aren't recording "Mr. Smith, we have the results of your HIV test and it's positive." or "This a reminder for you to come in for your colonoscopy" or something like that? Are your custom reminders more templated than that?
Just out of curiosity, can you explain what you mean by that?
It means that, if you don't see a check in that column, you're on notice that HIPAA compliance is not guaranteed. (Looking at my competitors shows that some invest a lot of effort into HIPAA compliance and some insist that it is out of scope for simple appointment reminders. My approach is a little different: I'll deal with the lawyers and regulatory angle, but not right now.)
If in spite of the plain language of the table and eventual language in the TOS folks insist on putting sensitive information on a service which is not rated for sensitive information, I'll say the same thing Gmail or Facebook would: I had no idea they were doing that, did not encourage it, and if you want to sue someone please sue them.
I think you misunderstood my question. I'm asking: what are you doing to guarantee HIPAA compliance? I.e., what's different about how you treat those accounts than the others and/or what steps are you taking to ensure compliance?
Reading over your response again it seems like you're saying that you're not doing anything to ensure HIPAA compliance and possibly that the HIPAA compliant premium option is only there to contrast with the other account types.
Is that right? If that's the case, why not just cover this in the TOS or with an on-page note like "NB: AppointmentReminder is not currently appropriate for HIPAA sensitive information." (Or some rephrasing of that that makes more sense.)
I'm confused why you're listing an account type you're not really willing to sell, or if you're intending to sell it, I'm curious what you intend to do to ensure compliance.
Of course, if you're not comfortable disclosing your plans here, or if you haven't yet figured them out, by all means disregard this question. I don't have any skin in this, I'm just curious.
One thought - this is something that's very valuable, but I do hope that you've considered selling this (at full price) as an addition to existing reservation systems. Asking service professionals to switch reservation systems is a very large ask; perhaps your $669/mo plan overlaps with that segment enough that it's not an issue. Even outside healthcare, my barbershop has a pretty tricked out system installed already. So I think you're going to have more $9/mo in your mix than you do, but I'm excited to see the data.
Also, I think there are many, many people who would love to fete you at a meetup. Please do consider publishing your American travel plans to us HNers so that we may ply you with beer and learn the dark arts of keyword research and other internet marketing ephemera.
Agree with that. Something like: "(value:) Stop losing money on missed appointments (large font). (how it works:) Send automatic phonecall reminders to your clients."
Small businesses already have appointment scheduling systems. Do you plan on integrating with them? Or is Appointment Reminder meant to replace them completely? Or do you expect your users to manually input their appointments into two separate systems?
Some small businesses certainly have appointment scheduling systems. One thing I have heard a few times from folks is that they're using Pencil and Paper v1.0. I plan on listening to my customers and iterating appropriately. If it is obvious that their needs include interop or importing, then there will be interop or importing.
In my wildest of fever dreams, solving a revenue-draining pain point is enough to establish a beachhead in the B2smallB mini-enterprise environment, and then I get to eat the elephant from within. ("Since you're already using me for scheduling..." Basically, a 37Signals style approach where each additional product adds synergistic effects from existing customers plus marginal revenue.)
I really like the idea, but I would make it even more general. Granted one could use it right now for absolutely everything, but the title says appointment reminder, I would personally use it to remind people interested in e-sports related streams.
Here's another idea, having the ability for this to send me IM messages or URL callbacks would be even better.
I actually thought "Hey, this would work for WoW guilds" and immediately saw myself getting emails from a bunch of people arguing about how expensive $9 was when they could get email to their iPhones for free. If that market interests anybody here, feel free to go for it! I'll be talking to the 30 ~ 50 year old ladies who pay money for things.
Your new venture seems very thoroughly thought-out, and I wish you good luck with it! I bet you've grown tired of hearing "you're an inspiration to us all".
But $770 for a 45-minute dentist's appointment?! Is that normal in Japan?
No, it is rather substantially cheaper here. Until recently I had not been wowed by Japanese dentistry, so I got some long-delayed work done last time I was in America on a cash basis. (Happily, when one of the fillings that cost $~X00 popped out and I had to visit the first dentist I found on Google Maps by my office, I had a wonderful experience but for the searing pain of losing a filling, and will be going to him from now on.)
None of the above is intended as a commentary on the relative merits of national health insurance.
I was hoping someone would ask that. Remember fiverr.com, the Mechanical Turk for people with talent, where every task is priced at $5? Somebody was offering to record a phone tree. I paid her $5 for half the job, liked what I got, paid her $5 for the other half, then got her email for ongoing work at a more appropriate wage.
God, I love the Internet.
Incidentally, the total cost of getting this project this far has been about $450, including $250 put on deposit for Twilio. (Better to have too much than too little, right?)
A full list of all the tools/services you used for this project would be most welcome. I've got: Twilio, PayPal WPP, Spreedly, Fiverr, and whoever your host is.
I'm not sure what was used here, but I've used Voices.com before to source voice overs and have been really happy with it. Worth a look if you need something like that.
If you send a message asking if the customer is coming, I'd bet they'd be more likely to cancel. "Not showing up is an acceptable option? In that case..."
Isn't not showing up always an acceptable option? For most of the cases I see this being used in, the customer is the one who wants the appointment in the first place. No one is forcing people to get massages.
I see Appointment Reminder as a way to eliminate no-shows from people who forget their appointment (which I tend to do more than I'd like). Personally, I wish every business I made appointments with used this.
It's frowned upon to cancel appointments even though it's an acceptable option. If the person I made an appointment with asks me if I want to cancel, that disincentive goes away.
The idea is still good, but tweaking the messaging might make it better.
I agree. A read-through of Cialdini's "Influence" should give us a better idea on how to phrase this. Something like "looking forward to seeing you" is less suggestive of a no-show.
That reminds me, I need to finish that book. I believe it's on the Personal MBA list if that interests you.
I glanced at an associate's blog last week and he had his own list of PMBA books reprinted from an original source. That looks like about the same list, yes.
Cool, thanks. It does seem like a good list... looking over it, I've read/listened to 4 so far... so only 95 to go! Ya right, but I will try to read one from each category this year.
Very cool. What you do best: providing actual value to real people from customer #1, not fancy high-tech services. I do wonder about your marketing plans, though. Are enough small business owners actively looking for this kind of service that AdWords is going to be a viable option?
And one tech question: what are you using for the calendar? It looks beautiful, like a simple iCal.
And lastly: international phone numbers don't seem to work. I'm sure that's intentional, I just hope I didn't freak out some random person in Iowa reminding them about a fake appointment.
Good idea, if it were mine I would make text message to cellular the standard notification feature with a fallback to e-mail only if the text message did not go through, or if the customer opted in for it instead of text.
I would also try offering a 15 day free trial for the businesses and sell packages on a quarterly, 6 month and yearly basis vs monthly.
Texts are still pricey for some folks, particularly with US cellular carriers. I only just upgraded from $0.20/msg a la carte to a $5/month 200 messages plan.
I think a .org is a bad idea. I know you are getting it for the exact match bonus, but noone clicks .org expecting to pay. Most people will probably just think you are an organization of appointment reminders
Here are a few available .net/.com domains that you can get now, w/ # of exact match searches per month:
The next time you get a haircut, can you do me a favor? Ask your stylist "What is a domain name?" and "What is the difference between dot com and dot O R G?"
I deal with this level of computer literacy every day, and you're right. However -- as I'm sure you know already -- a lot of people "go to" websites by typing something similar to the website's name into Google or, these days, Bing (curse them).
But you've written some pretty great stuff on SEO, so this is just for the benefit of anyone else reading this. :-)
Try naming 10-20 commercial websites(sites actually selling things) that are successful on a .org domain name. Can't? There is probably a reason for that.
It's not hairdressers you need to worry about, it's Google...who simply won't rank you in top positions.
It's not hairdressers you need to worry about, it's Google...who simply won't rank you in top positions.
Like saying there is carbon in a water molecule, this is simply not correct. com, net, and org domains all get the exact match bonus in the US, and orgs are not noticeably weaker than coms given equivalent link equity.
how many .net and .org websites have you launched? A .com gets a HUGE bonus over those.
A .com with 0 link building will almost always start off on page 1 or 2. Even for a competitive keyword, at worst you are looking at page 3.
A .net or .org will usually start off on page 40.
After 2-3 weeks of link building, with a .com you are looking at a top 3 position. With a .org, after 2-3 weeks of link building you'll be lucky to climb up to page 2.
A .com will always be king, it's the most valuable domain name for a reason.
No, it's a good example, for all the reasons you state.
The fact that a .com often ranks higher than its .org equivalent has nothing to do with it being a .com, but rather that its owners have done a better job of building it into a relevant site. You're seeing correlation, but not causation. As you correctly observe, PageRank and other SEO factors are the important thing.
Here are a few more examples of the same principle in action:
Same SEO methods on a .com and .net, will always have .com beating out the .net.
All those examples you give, there is no competition, those are BRANDS that choose to reside on a .net/.org domains, there is no wikipedia.com trying to outrank the .org.
We are not talking about brands here. We are talking about keyword centric domains that are targeting keywords people actually search for. So to give you an example, you should be trying to find a bluewidgets.org that outranks a bluewidgets.com, where bluewidgets.org has the same or lower page rank.
Link them on a single page somewhere, wait Google to index it, and search for "hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf". What tld will Google show first?
But if the .org or .net have a couple good links from somewhere else, they will rank higher. So, you're right on your pure domain keyword ranking, but I am from the opinion that it doesn't matter if you're going to use additional SEO techniques.
To whoever is downmodding this guy: Please stop. His post is neither inflammatory or offensive. If you disagree with what he's said, say so in a comment (with explanation as to why). Don't downvote just because you disagree.
I used to buy celebrity domain names and create "fan" pages. And this is not true.
.com .net .org worked equally well in getting ranked for the keywords in that domain.
A lot more people buy .com domains. So we see a lot more .com rankings higher up in the search engines.
But as far as my personal tests and experiences show, keyword.org will work as well as keyword.com in getting ranked if the same amount of link building is done for both of them.
The only downside of a .org is - if you plan to sell the site or the domain, a .org gets a lower price than a .com. But from search engine point of view, both work equally well.
I dont think .org will be so bad here. I think seeing the words appointment+reminder will be enough for them. Plus they are going to see the description which will likely have good copy.
.org Yeesh. I assume you're planning to buy .com when its proven itself.
Getting tiny businesses like a Salon to use a web app for scheduling may be very difficult. Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception. Maybe you could let them route calls to a phone-based scheduler (then email/SMS in the appointment to the staff).
The domainer who owns the .com is known for a resistance to selling and would want 5 figures or more, and the .net is owned by a market leader in the space. I can think of better things to spend my money on.
Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception.
You're certainly correct, but the market is so much bigger than me that I expect it will not matter either way. We'll see if my prospective customers routinely bring this up as an issue over the coming months.
My brother has exactly this problem with a small suburban music school he runs, so much so that I almost wrote something like this for him.
The biggest problem he seemed to have wasn't reminding people to show up; it was having a streamlined process for handling people rescheduling. Scheduling changes create drama for him by forcing him to renegotiate lesson times, and of course it creates bubbles in the schedule.
People can pick their own new spot in the schedule without having to go back and forth to find available times that work for both parties. The empty bubbles can still be a problem.
I might not completely understand the problems he runs into, but I think it could help.
When someone books an appointment for Monday and then later reschedules it for Friday, a Monday booking is lost. Every time that happens you give up a booking for free.
Sure it can. Here's a simple response: you have can book an appointment for any available time slot, but you can reschedule only within a limited number of slots.
That's pretty good, but how do you distinguish a rescheduling from a new appointment? Are most customers scheduled at the same time every week for long periods of time? If so, that makes lots of sense.
It's very easy to track which customers are rescheduling. It may be the case that a timely reminder prevents them from doing so. So that's another technological response to the problem.
Here's another: it is probably the case that rescheduling well in advance is better than rescheduling late. The earlier you reschedule the more economic value your original time slot has. So, it may be that a nudge like this gets you to free up your original spot while it's still saleable.
Those are just random thoughts off the top of my head. I just don't agree that this basic business problem admits to no technical solutions.
My haircutter absolutely calls me the day before each appointment to make sure I'm going to show. Assuming its cheap yet professional, this seems like a no-brainer for her.
If you could add a way for them to take appointments online that would be killer.
Great market you are in. I am currently working on a identical application for my day job, although we are focusing on a niche industry we have been serving for a few years. Great design. I know companies that spend $1,000+ a month on reminders and related messages.
Edit: looking at the HIPAA compliant feature I can tell you have done your research very well :). Glad to see you in this space. Looking forward to some "cooperative competition".
It looks like you're targeting medical offices with that enterprise plan, but it just seems far too expensive for them. At that price your service is starting to cost as much as EMRs or practice management software.
I'd be one of the cheapest solutions on the market at that price point. Enterprise sales, hooooo. It isn't irrational, either: like I said, if the dentist rescues a single appointment with me, he gets $750 in cash the same day.
That said, as I alluded to, I did not primarily include that plan out of a desire to sell it. It won't be available at launch: it just gives folks fair warning that the other plans are not guaranteed to be HIPAA friendly, and additionally makes everything else I sell look cheap by comparison to what the Big Boys use. As I mentioned, that appears to be essentially all of the space at the moment.
Right, I think there are many software niches that are still dominated by over-priced enterprise solutions, and the web is eventually going to destroy them.
If you eventually want to compete with those guys though, wouldn't you rather have a significantly lower price to make people consider switching? Or do you think having too low of a price will make people dismiss your business as shady, unreliable, etc.?
This whole article could be a case study on finding an idea and starting a business.
"I want to be able to say something similar to 'Appointment Reminder will pay for itself the first time it prevents a no-show.'" - despite patio11's humility about sales, this sentence shows he has the right instinct.
If I were you, I'd drop the Wordpress and WooThemes link - it brings nothing to your business and negatively affects those who care about such things.
Do you have experience in B2B? Cold calling and searching for your customer instead of them searching for you? It's a very time-consuming task, much worse in support than B2C.
Cold calling and searching for your customer instead of them searching for you?
I don't know if this came across in my blog post: cold calling is not in the cards here. I think there is a market niche which exists where it is not profitable to do the cold calling, and believe that I can reach it with scalable approaches like AdWords and AdSense, in much the same way that I reached individual teachers because doing enterprise sales to their school districts would not have been possible.
You know, what I think is that this business is not going to work. There just seem so many things unusual about it. If you cross $1500 a month, you're going to have to give a detailed break-down of what made it work, because I bet I would learn a lot.
Just looking at it, my instinct is saying "nah", so if I can retrain and learn some new stuff that would be very useful.
I think direct marketing (postcards, ads in trade journals, banner ads on trade portal websites) will work better than Adwords for this.
Because I think that your solution is something that a lot of businesses need and can get a benefit from. But its not a solution that all of these businesses search for.
So you will do better with a more pro-active marketing tactic. Take the educational approach - get case studies written about your first few clients - in their trade journals. Such a PR / case study approach will work better for you than Adwords.
It's an interesting idea, but I'm not so sure about your price structure. I guess that you don't want to bill for every notification, but have you thought about billing for prevented no-shows (maybe on top of a base-price that includes x appointments)? You could still make the case that your Reminder pays for itself after the first no-show and make more money off of users that benefit more from your product.
Also: I don't know who the target audience for the base-price is. If you know you have 10 and only 10 appointments per month, this plan may be fine, but otherwise? Why not change it to a "1$ for every appointment"-Plan?
What do you perceive as the benefit to my business from going from an easy to understand option to a complicated one which requires forecasting, math, complexity, and anxiety about marginal costs nagging at my users every time they sign in?
target audience for the [personal plan]
Productivity bloggers. It exists to give my business something to offer them, because they have something I want, and it is not really their money. shh
I completely see your point about the fixed rate. However, the benefit of a flexible plan is that you can lower the price of the initial payment and make a little money every time you are really helping your customers (detecting a no-show). You potentially save your customer money and take a fee for this service. I get now that that's not what you want - just wanted to offer a different perspective.
The sales pitch is too long IMO. If you end up keeping something like it post-demo you should test alternatives.
The voice talkent is good. A bit too slow for my tastes but you need to do research here to see what people can handle for speed. Maybe faster with an easy "repeat" function. It always frustrates me when I miss something on a recording and can't replay it.
The synthesized voice is really bad. Recording a real voice for every five minute interval (or heck, everything) is not that bad.
I realize the recipient of the call is not your customer, but the faster you can get off the phone the happier they'll be and the cheaper it is for you. If I'm a business owner I'm thinking that people are going to hang up on this. Even though the actual reminder is short you're reminding people of a long call.
Minor "ad copy" bit: I think the people you areselling to are more likely to recognize something like "text message to your mobile phone" than "SMS".
You need some sort of easier way for this to spread. Perhaps that will naturally happen as customers hear about the product.
"I’m coming to the market several years behind most of my competitors and will be playing catchup for quite some time"
Unless your competitors have significant secret sauce, playing catchup is a lot more efficient than leading. The unfair advantage that you have is the ability to ask your competitors' customers what they like and don't like about their products. Unlike the competition, you can add/remove features without pissing off existing users.
While I trust you folks to not be abusive to verify this, if you were to attempt to put in the same number twice, you would get an error message telling you that to prevent spam that is not possible, but if you want to hear the demo again you can call a 877 number from the phone you want to unblock and then follow the instructions to unblock it.
That number is also the outbound caller ID for the demo calls, and explains that the demo call was scheduled by someone on the website, and if you received it in error we're sorry, etc, and you won't receive another one.
You'll note that the free demo doesn't allow folks to actually specify any of the contents of the call. (Well, technically speaking, you can manipulate the time, but that is it.)
Should some person use the paid version of the service in a malicious fashion, I'll do what the phone company would do: block their account and cooperate with the authorities.
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168 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 249 ms ] threadA funny HN story here: back in my last month or so at the company, when the seeds of this idea were germinating, I was going to call this NotiPhone, but had some minor worries about Apple going after be for selling something that was not iPhones. I had mentally gotten over that and was going to register the domains as soon as I got back a three day stint at the office... and on the last day, Notifo (YC10) launched. Going with NotiPhone struck me as professionally discourteous so I went back to my old trusty generic.
(I did end up buying the domains eventually because, hey, you never know.)
I wish you the best of luck.
"we"? Aren't you alone in this venture?... Or it's just a "professionalness" thing? I'm kind of torn between "I" and "we" for projects completely made by just one guy...
Note that I already had three freelancers working on this, so it is literally accurate, if you're feeling dissatisfied by that explanation.
Patrick, ever A/B tested the I/we thing?
You know, I do get a personal call from my dentist, carpet cleaner, and my kids' doctor before an appointment. I call my customers before meeting with them too.
But what a waste of time for all of us right? Why not send out this automated voice mail message instead:
"Don't be late! I don't have time to call you, but you better have time to meet and PAY me."
Nice.
I think you'll be able to sell it, but it seems like a DIS-service to me.
Also, NOTHING pisses my wife off more than a voice mail from an automated system.
Just yesterday she got one from a local service we donate clothes to (pretty sure it was them again), and she let out a throaty roar in the kitchen because she hates them so much, she wants a different service now.
That said: we get automated calls from a couple of different things in our life, and while I can't say that I love the calls, they are effective --- they actually change behavior.
That being said, when we bought a stove at Home Depot, we received a personal call from the truck driver delivering the product to see if we were ready and where would be the most convenient place for him to carry it into the house.
So, automation probably does work sometimes, but if it's not all the time, then it's just an administration problem (as noted in the thread above)
If you get 10 customers a day, you treat each one like they're a duke; if 100 a day, each one is made to feel like a person. 1000 customers per day are a vague blur, an avalanche of humanity of whom only occasional glimpses are clear, 10,000 customers a day is statistics, and 10 Million per day is an abstraction.
Different businesses deal with different customers and different customer volumes change the shape and functionality of the organizations that serve them.
The question for you is, at what scale does a business built on somewhat random customer service experiences work?
The American Massage Therapy association has 57,000 members. Massage therapists are a small portion of the overall personal/professional services industry. 57k / small number = big number. Does it matter if it is 400k or 4 million or 40 million? Not to me. (If I was going for VC, yeah, there are 40 million -- you can see it right here on this chart in the up and to the right portion.)
That said, perhaps a good balance would be for the business to integrate their policies with a system like this: allow customers to exempt themselves from the reminder system either in part or in whole, and then make sure those customers get charged extra if they miss an appointment.
When you book an appointment with a service provider, service provider cannot book anyone else, EVEN if some other customer is interested to obtain their services at the same time.
But I hate interruptions. Make the interruption as quick as possible. To me the advantage of getting a recording is the minimal interaction. I don't have to exchange greetings with a robot. So make it fast.
I may not be representative.
I would just want one additional feature: allowing people to opt-out. A lot of appointments are recurring, take hair-cut for an example. This will work effectively for the first time, however some customers (who actually remember appointment) may started fearing that they would get a useless call even though they perfectly remember where and when they need to go.
So, a simple Press 7 if you don't wish to have automated reminders next time will be a great addition.
We recently set up a free diet program that also involved behavioral change. The conversion rate on the site in terms of signups were great (about 70% actually). We were also tracking a couple of products that were integral with the diet that we referred our customers to and the sales weren't quite close to matching the numbers we were seeing.
Long story short, we tried asking for phone numbers, and those who provided were given calls a couple of days after signing up, and the response rate has shot up exponentially, including sales of the products. The people didn't mind the calls either, even after we asked if we could call them once a week to follow up on progress.
Of course, these were personal calls, not automated ones.
Email reminders are also automated, yet you are more likely to miss it because we're not glued to our monitors 24/7. A phonecall however is more likely to get your attention. There's been many times I've missed or forgotten something that could have been prevented with a short call or text message.
An idea to counter this would be soothing and pleasant voice templates that may disarm those easily set off by automated voice systems.
You do? Must be a American thing. I never ever heard of that.
Everything is white-labeled, but if you like I can ask my dentist who they're using.
As someone else mentioned, his monthly enterprise account seems priced too high. You can buy full practice management software for this much.
I'd love to hear more about your struggles with this, Patrick. I suspect this is an undertreated topic.
bingocardcreator. appointmentreminder. These names leave little doubt about what it's about. I've also noticed a lot of TV shows do this very well too: Undercover Boss, Pawn Stars, Desperate Housewives.
So what should the rest of us do? Go with a "trusty generic" so we don't have to lose attention trying to explain what it is? Or come up with something short and slick, with far fewer SEO synonyms?
I'm guessing you'll have to rely a lot on your AdWords kung-fu that you talk about so much, because I think customer acquisition is going to be your toughest challenge.
Edit: Actually, I partially take that back. The ads look competitive, but the results look penetrable. Your blog post announcing the site is already #21 for that term, so you appear to be in good shape.
Edit 2: Although you may do well for SEO, I can't help but wonder if you're taking a hit on word of mouth sales with such a generic name that doesn't use a .com. "Have you tried Appointment Reminder Dot Org? My sales increased 10%!" It make work, but I think you're putting all your eggs in the SEO /SEM basket.
I'm really interested in hearing what the content marketing angle is for appointments though. Bingo cards had a natural content fit.
If I figure one out, I'll tell you. This is one of the things I'm less than sanguine about.
Also, for what it is worth, in this user's opinion:
1) I'd prefer you disable or hide (probably disable) the green scroll arrows when you are already at the edge of the ribbon. (Ie., when you are on "Apppoinment Reminders" the arrow on the left is gray and disabled while the one on the right is green; when you are on "Who is it for?" the arrow on the left is green while the one the right is gray.) The infinite loop aspect confuses and annoys my reptile brain. I expect to see new content when I click "next". (The fact that your image is a placeholder may be making this worse for me. If I saw the same image crop up again it may be more obvious that this is cycling.)
2) I'd make more of each column on the pricing page clickable. Maybe it just that I'm using a short screen, but scrolling down to the "Sign Up" link seems a pain, especially when it looks as is if "Small Business" is already selected due to the highlight.
3) Personally, I really dislike the green of the Small Business column heading on the pricing page.
Since you're keen on testing, have you user tested the pricing page yet, or is this just a first cut?
Otherfolks have pointed out that there are competing services. I think the secret here might be to be friendly, non-technical, and drop dead simple.
You may want to change your terminology there: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=massage+parlo...
The terminology difference is important to people in the industry but not always obvious to outsiders with less experience in the area.
One small nit: http://www.appointmentreminder.org/pricing says 'HIPPA compliance guaranteed'. It's 'HIPAA'.
It means that, if you don't see a check in that column, you're on notice that HIPAA compliance is not guaranteed. (Looking at my competitors shows that some invest a lot of effort into HIPAA compliance and some insist that it is out of scope for simple appointment reminders. My approach is a little different: I'll deal with the lawyers and regulatory angle, but not right now.)
If in spite of the plain language of the table and eventual language in the TOS folks insist on putting sensitive information on a service which is not rated for sensitive information, I'll say the same thing Gmail or Facebook would: I had no idea they were doing that, did not encourage it, and if you want to sue someone please sue them.
Reading over your response again it seems like you're saying that you're not doing anything to ensure HIPAA compliance and possibly that the HIPAA compliant premium option is only there to contrast with the other account types.
Is that right? If that's the case, why not just cover this in the TOS or with an on-page note like "NB: AppointmentReminder is not currently appropriate for HIPAA sensitive information." (Or some rephrasing of that that makes more sense.)
I'm confused why you're listing an account type you're not really willing to sell, or if you're intending to sell it, I'm curious what you intend to do to ensure compliance.
Of course, if you're not comfortable disclosing your plans here, or if you haven't yet figured them out, by all means disregard this question. I don't have any skin in this, I'm just curious.
One thought - this is something that's very valuable, but I do hope that you've considered selling this (at full price) as an addition to existing reservation systems. Asking service professionals to switch reservation systems is a very large ask; perhaps your $669/mo plan overlaps with that segment enough that it's not an issue. Even outside healthcare, my barbershop has a pretty tricked out system installed already. So I think you're going to have more $9/mo in your mix than you do, but I'm excited to see the data.
Also, I think there are many, many people who would love to fete you at a meetup. Please do consider publishing your American travel plans to us HNers so that we may ply you with beer and learn the dark arts of keyword research and other internet marketing ephemera.
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/
Using your value prop: "Stop losing money on missed appointments"
Small businesses already have appointment scheduling systems. Do you plan on integrating with them? Or is Appointment Reminder meant to replace them completely? Or do you expect your users to manually input their appointments into two separate systems?
In my wildest of fever dreams, solving a revenue-draining pain point is enough to establish a beachhead in the B2smallB mini-enterprise environment, and then I get to eat the elephant from within. ("Since you're already using me for scheduling..." Basically, a 37Signals style approach where each additional product adds synergistic effects from existing customers plus marginal revenue.)
But $770 for a 45-minute dentist's appointment?! Is that normal in Japan?
None of the above is intended as a commentary on the relative merits of national health insurance.
God, I love the Internet.
Incidentally, the total cost of getting this project this far has been about $450, including $250 put on deposit for Twilio. (Better to have too much than too little, right?)
If possible, I'd love to read up on how exactly you moved from concept to product.
I see Appointment Reminder as a way to eliminate no-shows from people who forget their appointment (which I tend to do more than I'd like). Personally, I wish every business I made appointments with used this.
The idea is still good, but tweaking the messaging might make it better.
That reminds me, I need to finish that book. I believe it's on the Personal MBA list if that interests you.
http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert...
Or is there another one you find valuable?
And one tech question: what are you using for the calendar? It looks beautiful, like a simple iCal.
And lastly: international phone numbers don't seem to work. I'm sure that's intentional, I just hope I didn't freak out some random person in Iowa reminding them about a fake appointment.
http://github.com/robmonie/jquery-week-calendar
I would also try offering a 15 day free trial for the businesses and sell packages on a quarterly, 6 month and yearly basis vs monthly.
Here are a few available .net/.com domains that you can get now, w/ # of exact match searches per month:
appointmentletter.net - 9,900
appointmentcard.net - 1,000
salonappointmentbook.com/.net - 1,000
appointmentremindersoftware.net - 1,000
appointmentletters.net - 880
appointmentpower.net - 880
salonappointmentsoftware.com/.net - 880
appointmentreminderservice.net - 880
onlineappointmentscheduler.net - 880
appointmentsystem.net - 720
appointmentbooksoftware.net - 590
automatedappointmentreminder.com/.net - 390
The next time you get a haircut, can you do me a favor? Ask your stylist "What is a domain name?" and "What is the difference between dot com and dot O R G?"
But you've written some pretty great stuff on SEO, so this is just for the benefit of anyone else reading this. :-)
It's not hairdressers you need to worry about, it's Google...who simply won't rank you in top positions.
Like saying there is carbon in a water molecule, this is simply not correct. com, net, and org domains all get the exact match bonus in the US, and orgs are not noticeably weaker than coms given equivalent link equity.
A .com with 0 link building will almost always start off on page 1 or 2. Even for a competitive keyword, at worst you are looking at page 3.
A .net or .org will usually start off on page 40.
After 2-3 weeks of link building, with a .com you are looking at a top 3 position. With a .org, after 2-3 weeks of link building you'll be lucky to climb up to page 2.
A .com will always be king, it's the most valuable domain name for a reason.
http://www.google.com/search?q=travel+blog
Now find travelblog.org on that page.
Go search for travelblog on google.co.uk, and it's in the top 3 position.
And sure travelblog.org is #1 there too, but the .org is a PR6 website, while the .com is a PR4 website. That's orders of magnitude higher.
The fact that a .com often ranks higher than its .org equivalent has nothing to do with it being a .com, but rather that its owners have done a better job of building it into a relevant site. You're seeing correlation, but not causation. As you correctly observe, PageRank and other SEO factors are the important thing.
Here are a few more examples of the same principle in action:
http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia http://www.google.com/search?q=slashdot http://www.google.com/search?q=php
Same SEO methods on a .com and .net, will always have .com beating out the .net.
All those examples you give, there is no competition, those are BRANDS that choose to reside on a .net/.org domains, there is no wikipedia.com trying to outrank the .org.
We are not talking about brands here. We are talking about keyword centric domains that are targeting keywords people actually search for. So to give you an example, you should be trying to find a bluewidgets.org that outranks a bluewidgets.com, where bluewidgets.org has the same or lower page rank.
Simple experiment, buy these three domains:
hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.com hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.org hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.net
Link them on a single page somewhere, wait Google to index it, and search for "hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf". What tld will Google show first?
But if the .org or .net have a couple good links from somewhere else, they will rank higher. So, you're right on your pure domain keyword ranking, but I am from the opinion that it doesn't matter if you're going to use additional SEO techniques.
.com .net .org worked equally well in getting ranked for the keywords in that domain.
A lot more people buy .com domains. So we see a lot more .com rankings higher up in the search engines.
But as far as my personal tests and experiences show, keyword.org will work as well as keyword.com in getting ranked if the same amount of link building is done for both of them.
The only downside of a .org is - if you plan to sell the site or the domain, a .org gets a lower price than a .com. But from search engine point of view, both work equally well.
- Remindery.com (available) - Appointmently.com (available) - Appointmentize.com (available)
<name-you-actually-want>ly.com or get<name-you-actually-want>.com
I kind of like Remindery though :)
Wine from a winery, reminders from the remindery.
diction from the dictionary
... which informs me that medieval Europeans did not expect chicken from a chicanery. Drats.
Getting tiny businesses like a Salon to use a web app for scheduling may be very difficult. Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception. Maybe you could let them route calls to a phone-based scheduler (then email/SMS in the appointment to the staff).
Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception.
You're certainly correct, but the market is so much bigger than me that I expect it will not matter either way. We'll see if my prospective customers routinely bring this up as an issue over the coming months.
The biggest problem he seemed to have wasn't reminding people to show up; it was having a streamlined process for handling people rescheduling. Scheduling changes create drama for him by forcing him to renegotiate lesson times, and of course it creates bubbles in the schedule.
I might not completely understand the problems he runs into, but I think it could help.
It's very easy to track which customers are rescheduling. It may be the case that a timely reminder prevents them from doing so. So that's another technological response to the problem.
Here's another: it is probably the case that rescheduling well in advance is better than rescheduling late. The earlier you reschedule the more economic value your original time slot has. So, it may be that a nudge like this gets you to free up your original spot while it's still saleable.
Those are just random thoughts off the top of my head. I just don't agree that this basic business problem admits to no technical solutions.
If you could add a way for them to take appointments online that would be killer.
Edit: looking at the HIPAA compliant feature I can tell you have done your research very well :). Glad to see you in this space. Looking forward to some "cooperative competition".
That said, as I alluded to, I did not primarily include that plan out of a desire to sell it. It won't be available at launch: it just gives folks fair warning that the other plans are not guaranteed to be HIPAA friendly, and additionally makes everything else I sell look cheap by comparison to what the Big Boys use. As I mentioned, that appears to be essentially all of the space at the moment.
If you eventually want to compete with those guys though, wouldn't you rather have a significantly lower price to make people consider switching? Or do you think having too low of a price will make people dismiss your business as shady, unreliable, etc.?
"I want to be able to say something similar to 'Appointment Reminder will pay for itself the first time it prevents a no-show.'" - despite patio11's humility about sales, this sentence shows he has the right instinct.
Do you have experience in B2B? Cold calling and searching for your customer instead of them searching for you? It's a very time-consuming task, much worse in support than B2C.
I don't know if this came across in my blog post: cold calling is not in the cards here. I think there is a market niche which exists where it is not profitable to do the cold calling, and believe that I can reach it with scalable approaches like AdWords and AdSense, in much the same way that I reached individual teachers because doing enterprise sales to their school districts would not have been possible.
Just looking at it, my instinct is saying "nah", so if I can retrain and learn some new stuff that would be very useful.
I think direct marketing (postcards, ads in trade journals, banner ads on trade portal websites) will work better than Adwords for this.
Because I think that your solution is something that a lot of businesses need and can get a benefit from. But its not a solution that all of these businesses search for.
So you will do better with a more pro-active marketing tactic. Take the educational approach - get case studies written about your first few clients - in their trade journals. Such a PR / case study approach will work better for you than Adwords.
Also: I don't know who the target audience for the base-price is. If you know you have 10 and only 10 appointments per month, this plan may be fine, but otherwise? Why not change it to a "1$ for every appointment"-Plan?
target audience for the [personal plan]
Productivity bloggers. It exists to give my business something to offer them, because they have something I want, and it is not really their money. shh
The sales pitch is too long IMO. If you end up keeping something like it post-demo you should test alternatives.
The voice talkent is good. A bit too slow for my tastes but you need to do research here to see what people can handle for speed. Maybe faster with an easy "repeat" function. It always frustrates me when I miss something on a recording and can't replay it.
The synthesized voice is really bad. Recording a real voice for every five minute interval (or heck, everything) is not that bad.
I realize the recipient of the call is not your customer, but the faster you can get off the phone the happier they'll be and the cheaper it is for you. If I'm a business owner I'm thinking that people are going to hang up on this. Even though the actual reminder is short you're reminding people of a long call.
Minor "ad copy" bit: I think the people you areselling to are more likely to recognize something like "text message to your mobile phone" than "SMS".
You need some sort of easier way for this to spread. Perhaps that will naturally happen as customers hear about the product.
Unless your competitors have significant secret sauce, playing catchup is a lot more efficient than leading. The unfair advantage that you have is the ability to ask your competitors' customers what they like and don't like about their products. Unlike the competition, you can add/remove features without pissing off existing users.
If so, can a religious zealot / abusive ex-spouse / stalker / demagogue / etc use this system to contact their victim(s)?
While I trust you folks to not be abusive to verify this, if you were to attempt to put in the same number twice, you would get an error message telling you that to prevent spam that is not possible, but if you want to hear the demo again you can call a 877 number from the phone you want to unblock and then follow the instructions to unblock it.
That number is also the outbound caller ID for the demo calls, and explains that the demo call was scheduled by someone on the website, and if you received it in error we're sorry, etc, and you won't receive another one.
You'll note that the free demo doesn't allow folks to actually specify any of the contents of the call. (Well, technically speaking, you can manipulate the time, but that is it.)
Should some person use the paid version of the service in a malicious fashion, I'll do what the phone company would do: block their account and cooperate with the authorities.
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