He actually had a green badge for a while. That's normally associated with interns, but it's also given to visiting scientists. Something about that was just funny.
I only waved hello to him, but was very lucky to spend time with the Gapminder/Trendalyzer folks in B41 (his son Ola, Anna and Henrik), before they moved back to Stockholm. My thoughts go out to Ola and Anna. :-(
I can also recommend the Planet Money podcast which covered tshirts. It changed my mind about the whole globalization and child labour story. The textile industry is the first step towards industrialization, and despite the abuses it's a net positive for humanity. More so when you consider the systemic pressure of the charities which work for better conditions.
The only counter argument is global warming: development means more energy usage, which means more warming. Certain groups know this, and would prefer that 80% of the world's population live a Victorian lifestyle so we can keep enjoying ours.
It's clear to me that if our generation can solve the energy problem then the driving factors behind most of the human-world problems go away.
He could explain very complex issues in a way everyone could understand. Something that is need more than ever now in the age of fake news and alternative facts...
Professor Rosling is just the type of man we would need in todays political landscape. A character with a strong belief in verifiable facts and using those facts to change the world for the better.
that idea is an old idea predating Rosling, that the automation or labor-saving in the home and, more or less at the same time, women working in factories while the men fought WWII, was what led to women being recognized as "economically capable" and having a lot of free time as soon as they were done baby booming.
Also, with the shifting and opening of roles for women, education of children plummeted because "teacher" used to be the most acceptable role for an educated woman, and quality dropped dramatically when the most talented women funelled into the economy to become scientists, doctors, lawyers, etc. It's a serious question, this is a real "technical debt" style tradeoff, and it's not a question of "pay teachers better" or "treat them differently", it's a quality question (this view is not popular within teachers' organizations)
Paying teachers better might attract more people to become teachers instead of lawyers?
Just nitpicking your argument here. I think there are empirical studies looking at things like impact of teacher pay, teacher prestige in society, teacher selection etc on student learning; and teacher pay doesn't actually have that much of an impact (and neither does class size). But I would need to look that up to be sure.
I'll confess I don't know who Hans Rosling was, but if that's what he really said, I can't muster much admiration for him. What is really depressing is that "a huge chunk of women in the world" are expected to do the washing, while the men are working or getting an education etc. Having a machine do the washing for you under the circumstances simply frees your time so you can spend it in more house chores. After all, there's not a big difference between "woman, go to your washing" and "woman, go to your washing machine".
I mean, alright, I get it- it can save time and all. But personally, I can't think of a context where I wouldn't find the association of washing machines with women to be humiliating.
And I, in turn, find your outrage misplaced. I am certainly in no position to condemn anyone to anything. Most women in most of the world are in a social situation that forces them to be domestic slaves. So what's the solution to that? To automate their domestic slavery, by buying them washing machines?
Well duh, of course not. The solution is to change their societies so that they don't have to be the ones who do all the bloody washing. Until then, selling them washing machines is primarily of benefit to the people who sell them the washing machines.
> Until then, selling them washing machines is primarily of benefit to the people who sell them the washing machines
Have you ever done all your laundry by hand? I have, and it's a MASSIVE waste of time. As long as someone in the family has to do it manually (along with cooking with fire, carrying water, sweeping, etc), it will keep someone in the home to do all that work.
You should definitely actually watch the video. It's only 10 minutes.
I agree with your basic sentiment, that it's wrong that we so often assume that housework is women's work, and that it would be better if that gender expectation were not taken as a fundamental given.
I disagree with the view that the washing machine, and other domestic labor-saving devices, haven't been deeply beneficial for hundreds of millions of women, even though it is still a mistake that we still see doing the laundry as a job for women. I disagree because changing cultures is really hard and really slow, while changing technology is, by comparison, incredibly easy and fast. And it is absolutely better to make easy, fast changes, whenever that is possible, than to sneer at them because they do not solve the underlying problem. They still solve some part of the problem. Sometimes to a significant degree. That matters: billions of hours of trivial human labor have been saved, many of them going instead to the leisure, study, and thought necessary to move people toward the real solution.
When I read statements like this, I realise how detached many people are from the African reality.
I'm a Ghanaian/German and my wife is a house wife.
Indeed, I go to work while she stays at home to clean, cook and take care of the kids.
The point is, it's her choice to do so. Because she doesn't work, we can't afford to get help. And she prefers to take care of her kids herself at this young age (oldest is 4).
Does that mean we need to change so I leave work and come help her with the washing?
Well, I bought her a washing machine due to the sheer volume of laundry my kids generate in a day so she doesn't have to, on top of her other chores spend her whole time washing.
Now she has more time to study as she's done with chores sooner and is less tired after doing them.
The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world.
Mothers are some better suited to taking care of their children than fathers are. Slice it whatever way you want, it's a fact of nature.
Our realities are different, sometimes I wish people would understand that.
I don't know what nature has to do with anything- is it any different for
people in Africa, than in the UK, where I live? Over here men are expected to
help with all the house chores - dishes, cleaning up, washing, you name it.
And that includes taking care of the children. For instance, it's very common
to see lone dads out with their toddlers in a pram, or a sling around their
neck.
>> The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world.
Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that. If you want to say that there's a great
deal of social reform that's needed before women and men have the same
opportunitites in life, and there's no reason to "split roles" so that women
stay at home and do the washing and men go to work, then fine. But that it's
"necessary" anywhere, I don't accept that. It's no more necessary in Ghana,
than it is in the UK.
And btw, I'm an immigrant to the UK. I'm originally from Greece which is a
very traditional country, so I'm very familiar with the alleged social
necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines. It doesn't make
sense in Greece, it doesn't make sense in the UK, and I'm pretty sure it's
just an excuse in Ghana also.
> I'm very familiar with the alleged social necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines.
I think you missed the point where I mentioned it was her choice to stay at home and take care of the kids.
No where did I try to advance an argument to keep women at home with their washing, rather, I tried to explain that for most people, they have no choice, and this lack of choice doesn't mean they should continue to do it manually.
You speak about it being an excuse. Again, basing this on your reality. One that has only experienced western culture and life styles.
In a region where much of the population is poor, and the only jobs available to them are hard and laborious with long hours, you have no option but to leave that kind of work to the men.
So yes, it is indeed a necessity to many of these people to split their roles and not just an excuse to lord it over the women as you try to make it sound.
The reason this is difficult to end is due to the difficulty in ending the underlying cause itself, mostly poverty.
Very sad. Another victim of pancreatic cancer. A couple of months ago, astronaut Piers Sellers died from it.
Ever since I heard Randy Pausch's "The Last Lecture", I take notice when people die from pancreatic cancer, which a decade later, is still basically a death sentence.
...or you could find a way to detect it earlier. I'm not sure why you'd simply throw up your hands in defeat. It's not an unsolvable problem, just a difficult one.
139 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 245 ms ] threadVila i frid, professor Rosling.
The difference between the worldviews are which facts are emphasized, shared and deemed culturally relevant.
You can make pretty much any movie "based on a true story."
Check out his presentations: https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_... (to showcase just one)
https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_...
I only waved hello to him, but was very lucky to spend time with the Gapminder/Trendalyzer folks in B41 (his son Ola, Anna and Henrik), before they moved back to Stockholm. My thoughts go out to Ola and Anna. :-(
The way data is presented means if the audience understands it and is interested versus simply saying good job and moving on.
For some context: Hans is famous here for his fantastic series of TED talks which cover population growth, poverty and development.
Totally changed (well, confirmed) my world view.
Start here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg
I can also recommend the Planet Money podcast which covered tshirts. It changed my mind about the whole globalization and child labour story. The textile industry is the first step towards industrialization, and despite the abuses it's a net positive for humanity. More so when you consider the systemic pressure of the charities which work for better conditions.
The only counter argument is global warming: development means more energy usage, which means more warming. Certain groups know this, and would prefer that 80% of the world's population live a Victorian lifestyle so we can keep enjoying ours.
It's clear to me that if our generation can solve the energy problem then the driving factors behind most of the human-world problems go away.
This episode goes into detail iirc: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/12/03/247360855/two-s...
https://www.gapminder.org/videos/the-joy-of-stats/
Or here is the direct link on Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/18477762
He could explain very complex issues in a way everyone could understand. Something that is need more than ever now in the age of fake news and alternative facts...
RIP
His passion shined through in the videos he made, which any non-expert could understand.
1: http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_y...
Also, with the shifting and opening of roles for women, education of children plummeted because "teacher" used to be the most acceptable role for an educated woman, and quality dropped dramatically when the most talented women funelled into the economy to become scientists, doctors, lawyers, etc. It's a serious question, this is a real "technical debt" style tradeoff, and it's not a question of "pay teachers better" or "treat them differently", it's a quality question (this view is not popular within teachers' organizations)
Just nitpicking your argument here. I think there are empirical studies looking at things like impact of teacher pay, teacher prestige in society, teacher selection etc on student learning; and teacher pay doesn't actually have that much of an impact (and neither does class size). But I would need to look that up to be sure.
I mean, alright, I get it- it can save time and all. But personally, I can't think of a context where I wouldn't find the association of washing machines with women to be humiliating.
You would condemn the women of the world, the poorest of the poor to backbreaking work because you won't identify with reality?
Even amongst the ultra rich, aka you (given you are on HN, most likely), women do more house work.
Yet you expect people who dedicate their lives to the ultra poor and get things done to be careful of your sensibilities?
Well duh, of course not. The solution is to change their societies so that they don't have to be the ones who do all the bloody washing. Until then, selling them washing machines is primarily of benefit to the people who sell them the washing machines.
Have you ever done all your laundry by hand? I have, and it's a MASSIVE waste of time. As long as someone in the family has to do it manually (along with cooking with fire, carrying water, sweeping, etc), it will keep someone in the home to do all that work.
You should definitely actually watch the video. It's only 10 minutes.
Yes, I have. Why is it the women that have to do it- by hand, or otherwise?
I disagree with the view that the washing machine, and other domestic labor-saving devices, haven't been deeply beneficial for hundreds of millions of women, even though it is still a mistake that we still see doing the laundry as a job for women. I disagree because changing cultures is really hard and really slow, while changing technology is, by comparison, incredibly easy and fast. And it is absolutely better to make easy, fast changes, whenever that is possible, than to sneer at them because they do not solve the underlying problem. They still solve some part of the problem. Sometimes to a significant degree. That matters: billions of hours of trivial human labor have been saved, many of them going instead to the leisure, study, and thought necessary to move people toward the real solution.
Have you seen the work men do in poor countries?
Do you really expect women to be doing this work and the man stays at home doing house work?
I do see women carrying huge bags of concrete, masonry, pulling carts along occasionally.
And I find it heart breaking. It's body ruining as a man, for women to be doing it is an even lower level of poverty that they are at.
There is a lot of 'let them eat cake' going on here.
Like- Problem: women are treated as domestic slaves. Solution: get them domestic appliances.
Well that's just ridiculous.
Where there's no option, you have to split the roles.
And where you split the roles, you can't make one party burdened unnecessarily.
I'm a Ghanaian/German and my wife is a house wife. Indeed, I go to work while she stays at home to clean, cook and take care of the kids.
The point is, it's her choice to do so. Because she doesn't work, we can't afford to get help. And she prefers to take care of her kids herself at this young age (oldest is 4).
Does that mean we need to change so I leave work and come help her with the washing?
Well, I bought her a washing machine due to the sheer volume of laundry my kids generate in a day so she doesn't have to, on top of her other chores spend her whole time washing.
Now she has more time to study as she's done with chores sooner and is less tired after doing them.
The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world. Mothers are some better suited to taking care of their children than fathers are. Slice it whatever way you want, it's a fact of nature.
Our realities are different, sometimes I wish people would understand that.
>> The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world.
Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that. If you want to say that there's a great deal of social reform that's needed before women and men have the same opportunitites in life, and there's no reason to "split roles" so that women stay at home and do the washing and men go to work, then fine. But that it's "necessary" anywhere, I don't accept that. It's no more necessary in Ghana, than it is in the UK.
And btw, I'm an immigrant to the UK. I'm originally from Greece which is a very traditional country, so I'm very familiar with the alleged social necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines. It doesn't make sense in Greece, it doesn't make sense in the UK, and I'm pretty sure it's just an excuse in Ghana also.
> I'm very familiar with the alleged social necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines.
I think you missed the point where I mentioned it was her choice to stay at home and take care of the kids.
No where did I try to advance an argument to keep women at home with their washing, rather, I tried to explain that for most people, they have no choice, and this lack of choice doesn't mean they should continue to do it manually.
You speak about it being an excuse. Again, basing this on your reality. One that has only experienced western culture and life styles.
In a region where much of the population is poor, and the only jobs available to them are hard and laborious with long hours, you have no option but to leave that kind of work to the men.
So yes, it is indeed a necessity to many of these people to split their roles and not just an excuse to lord it over the women as you try to make it sound. The reason this is difficult to end is due to the difficulty in ending the underlying cause itself, mostly poverty.
Ever since I heard Randy Pausch's "The Last Lecture", I take notice when people die from pancreatic cancer, which a decade later, is still basically a death sentence.
http://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/
And that's unlikely to change given how late symptoms show and how benign they seem.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170206111912.h...
The problem of that method is the number of false positives, and that pancreatic isn't a hugely common cancer, just a really lethal one.
> I'm not sure why you'd simply throw up your hands in defeat.
Now what the bloody fuck are you talking about? Looking at the situation objectively is not "throwing up my hands in defeat".
Compare with most thyroid cancer. Stage IV 5 year survival rate 50%.
Also fuck cancer.
Heartfelt love and condolences to his family.
:)
Yes, I agree, he will be missed.