Ask HN: I feel my dream slipping away
Well, I'm not looking for hang-in-there-buddy-advice but rather employment ideas or immigration hacks from someone in my situation or who understands it. I'm an Engineer working at a big corp in California - a job I so hate but have been needing to hold on to for green card purposes (I'm a foreign citizen). I'm still at least 2 years away from getting it. Meanwhile, in my spare time, I've been hacking away on my boostrapped startup idea. I released a MVP two months ago and it has been gaining steady traction. I intend to hit ramen profitability by early next year. This is where it gets hard on me. In spite of spending many waking hours working on it, moonlighting often translates to slow progress. At the end of a full 10 hour day working for the man, creativity and productivity are not at their peak when I get to work in the evenings. I fear that when competition gets wind of the opportunity that exists in their blind spot, they will get to work and could outdo me quickly.
One option is quitting my job cold turkey but that may mean going back to my home country. I've lived in the US for 8+ yrs now and want to stay here. I want to build my business here. I like it here. Is that so bad? Isn't America the land where you can realize your dream and help others realize theirs too?
It gets very frustrating at times and I fear my dream is slipping away. I will turn 30 soon (no, that is not precipitating this :). I'd like to spend the next decade of my life building my own company, not waiting for a green card. I am making progress but at a snail's pace (at least I feel so). Plus from my last venture, I learned the lesson that working with a useless co-founder is worse than going it alone. This time, I am solo-ing until I can find a partner who is as passionate & hard working.
I've been bearing this situation for two years now and feel like I'm stuck in this rut for the foreseeable future.
Are any of you in similar shoes? How do you deal with it? Are there any immigration hacks that you are aware of? Have you figured out some way to spend a major chunk of your time working on your startup but staying in legal status and maintaing your perm residency petition?
tl;dr: Working on startup venture. No green card. Stuck in this situation for 2+ yrs. Slow progress and sometimes feel dream slipping away. Suggestions?
Gosh. I hope I don't come across as whiny. I'm not.
[EDIT] I've been trying to reply to some of your comments but the post isn't going through. Would you know why? I'm a long time HN user but this is a throwaway account and I'm not sure if it's because this is a new user.
79 comments
[ 7.3 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] threadSee one of the comments:
"I have a lot of experience with this, having done it several times myself. Proving the company is 'real' to the USCIS can be tricky, because they don't consider companies with cash but no revenue to be viable. Luckily it never usually gets to that stage of analysis for a simple H1B (although green cards are a whole different matter). Just make sure you have an office address,letterhead, phone numbers, a bank account and good lawyers. The USCIS will often pick up on little details that show the business is being run out of someones backyard.
The hardest part is in the early stages, prior to transferring the H1B visa, because technically the visa holder can have no involvement in the company i.e. cannot attend meetings or talk about the opportunity without violating their status.
One approach I used successfully was to get my accountant to create an LLC. The LLC held my shares in the new startup. My immigration attorney then applied for a part-time concurrent H1B to work for that LLC as a board member a couple of hours a week, in parallel with myexisting H1B visa, allowing me to be involved from day one (you can start work the moment the visa is filed). When the startup was funded, they then filed a H1B transfer for me. "
H1B visas are granted for three years, and you can renew once. That gives you a total of six years after which you have to go home - no matter how well your startup is doing at that point. I've never heard of anyone doing the above and managing to keep their Green Card application going. I'm not sure it's actually possible.
In contrast a Green Card can be renewed indefinitely, so it's a rather valuable thing to wait for. Totally worth it in my opinion.
Not exactly. They can be renewed past the second term indefinitely, as long as an immigration application (I-140/I-485) has been filed with USCIS and is under review -- can be a long process.
From what he says about USCIS picking on little details, I think setting up my own company and sponsoring an H-1B without revenues will be subject to audit for sure and could jeopardize my green card petition.
I'm going to talk to an immigration lawyer but from my past conversation or two, they say this is very hard to do without raising major flags.
So if you do find a loophole, and exploit it - remember that your green card can be revoked. To stake your entire existence on your exploiting a loophole seems a little risky to me.
I am not discouraging you from trying, believe me...I was in your situation a few months ago, I just don't think it is a sustainable path to take.
1) What a dumb idea, that will never work
2) That company seems profitable, but we will beat them
3) We better copy that idea, but it is not our core business / it will cannabilise our profits
4) Okay, lets get some of our non-motivated, non skilled, unimportant engineers to look at this niche in our typical boring locked down plodding way
5) Budget cuts!
So yeah, don't be too worried about large companies.
It might be a good thing if the big guys see what you're up to, and realize that it's easier to buy you out than do it themselves.
Also, most customers you approach will never have heard of either of you - unless you are in a tiny market your competition has very little effect on you (other than encouraging you to work harder)
Why do I mention this? Because whenever I feel like I'm in a difficult situation (not all that much different from yours), I promise myself not to pull a Teddy Roosevelt and do something hasty that I'll regret forever. Neither should you.
FWIW, time is not slipping away. In spite of what you may think here at hn, 30 is not old.
My suggestion: keep your job and stay on your path to a green card, but find a way to do it and your startup at the same time. You have to get creative. Put in a few hours on your startup before work, not after. Get rid of you TV set. Block out huge blocks of time on weekends. Use your PTO for your startup. Work from home a few days a week and squeeze in extra startup work with the time/energy you save. You get the idea.
You're already creative enough to build a startup. Now use that creativity to free up more time and energy to work on it. Forget about the competition and time slipping away; just do the best you can. And don't pull a Teddy Roosevelt.
I'm in the same boat. And I completely understand how frustrating it is. So take this thread's advice to come out of frustration, but don't stop to find a real solution.
I'm also working to find a solution for this problem. Talked to few people who have done this before, reading some info on http://lawbench.com regarding similar cases, talked to lawyers and will be talking more lawyers for specific personal situation. Everyone's situation is different so general advice won't apply in such cases.
At the end, don't give up. Find a solution. Don't settle down for the part-time. I'm not going to settle for part-time either. Worst case, I'll have to take extreme steps once I know that I knew all possible solutions, and tried all of them, but there is just a solution that fits my situation. At that stage, Teddy Roosevelt's situation won't look similar to ours - and it will make sense to quit Green Card trap and take a leap.
I am 37 now and I think time IS slipping away. (Note: I am not the OP)
Really though, it's not so bad. We all face utter oblivion; the question is "When?" and not "If?" Live peacefully and with confidence. Be content that you do not live in Swaziland. Thirty-seven years is a long time to yet exist.
I don't think the glass is half empty. Despite all the problems, I think the world is an amazing place with countless interesting things to do. I am just not in favor of the "play it safe and keep your day job" advice, because time definitely is finite (though I am rooting for the singularity guys). I am not in a position to really advise against it, though - what if somebody quits their job and ends up broke and miserable? Everybody has to decide for themselves, I guess.
I think "fear is the greatest enemy" is true, though - what exactly is the day job buying you? Also think in opportunity costs - what could you do in the time you weren't working for the man?
what exactly is the day job buying you?
In the OP's case, US citizenship, which means a lifetime of opportunity to build businesses in a free country which he/she likes living in. Two years of steady income, while still working on your business on the side, sounds like a good bargain.
Of course, your situation must be different, so you would have to decide accordingly.
IMO, perspective is everything: focus on the positives. You are 30 and you are half way through to achieving what most people cannot achieve in a lifetime. The times when I feel most sad/depressed is when I am working long hours for 7 days a week. So when I take a break and come back after having some fun, suddenly everything looks positive and encouraging:-)
I think he's referring to time saved by not having to commute, not using company time for the startup. If that's true then it seems like good advice.
I also feel your pain on immigration issues. That was at least part of the reason why I had to do things the long way.
You can make progress while employed. Be disciplined about it, be smart in how you work, and above all don't give up.
Most of my good tips are here:
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/03/20/running-a-software-busin...
At the end of the process you'll have a company (successful for some definition of successful), a green card, and an excellent base from which to plot your takeover of the world. You might be surprised to know that at 28 or 30 or 32 having a successful company still makes you a huge anomaly among everyone you know. The discipline you learned while working will help you hugely, too, if you can maintain it.
Between writing code, thinking about the big picture, product features, promoting it, marketing, I'm overwhelmed most of the time. I have been looking for help now but still learning my way through hiring.
The 20-somethings media-fueled success stories that we hear all around us add undue pressure. In a subtle way, they make you feel like a loser if you haven't made it by 30, which is BS. I make a conscious effort to not be affected by the hype.
All I'd like is to give it my best effort, learn a lot in the process, and hopefully create a nice little place for myself.
I myself am 35 with a wife and two kids. I've been bootstrapping solo for the last two and a half years. Traction takes time (like 2-5 years). You can't just put something online and expect it to grow. You have to physically talk to your potential customers, even if it means doing so repeatedly for very small deals.
You're actually quite lucky to be employed while working on your side project. Keep your job (or find another one if it won't screw up your green card process) and figure out a way to keep building on the side (make sure you're covered from an IP perspective). If you really want to make it happen, you're going to need a lot of energy and patience.
Also, don't worry about competition. It's the least of your concerns.
You have a perfectly viable third option, and it's one that I nearly took while trying to juggle a business and a regular job at the same time. I certainly would have taken it if I felt that it was necessary to keep the regular job.
That option is, get help. You have a steady, reliable job now, and you might not enjoy it, but you might also be surprised at how much more enjoyable it can be if you have a successful business on the side that's taking care of itself. Also, I'm beginning to think that "getting help" is one of the most challenging steps an entrepreneur eventually has to take; why not handle it right away?
Take a day or two off from your regular job, if you can. A long weekend would be good. Decompress a little -- but don't procrastinate! -- and then sit down and draft an idea of what you want your business to do, and when you want it to do it. It doesn't need to be fancy; it doesn't need to be a business plan. Just: "in X months my business should be doing Y" kind of stuff.
Then, once you've got a clear idea of what you want to accomplish, start looking for people that can help you do it. The economy is your friend right now -- you should be able to find some part-time or contract help for pretty cheap. You'll get to learn how to manage them really effectively, since you won't be able to look over their shoulders 40 hours a week.
Two years from now, you can have your green card, and you can be way ahead of schedule in your business, just because you got help sooner rather than later.
Worst case, it's easier to tweak or rewrite something that's been already written than start from scratch.
It's a tough call what to do within the limits of our current environment and I wish you the best of luck in your current situation.
I thought they were making this process tougher because of the current economic climate.
My only piece of advice would be to look for ways to hack the Green Card process. While it looks completely unhackable on the surface, there were a couple of times dring my application where we managed to find influential contacts who sped things up by as much as six months. If the immigration lawyer your company is using isn't doing everything possible to make your application go quickly, find a lawyer of your own to review the paperwork and see if anything more can be done.
Good luck!
If you hold on for two years, you will end up with a solid start up, a green card and in addition to your salary you'll have another revenue stream.
That's a very nice way to enter your thirties.
Hang in there!
Your situation sounds a lot like my dad's. He came here after college, finished his Ph.D in the U.S, then got screwed over in every industrial position he took. The immigration situation sucks in this country. You need a company to sponsor you, but the company realizes that you have zero leverage as a foreigner, and treats you accordingly. He was paid less than native-born citizens, missed out on all the scientific conferences given abroad because he couldn't leave the country easily for visa reasons, and found that promotions and accolades went to his American colleagues that knew how to work the system, rather than the people who did the best technical work.
He ended up getting his citizenship when he married my mother, a few years past 30. But in a sense it was too late for him by then: he was so bitter about the way he was treated in industry that it poisoned all his future ventures. It did mean that my sister and I grew up as native-born U.S. citizens, though, with all the cultural capital that comes with that.
My advice for now: forget about the startup. Instead, concentrate on learning as much about American culture as possible. Go out with coworkers after work. Start cultivating your own social life - invite friends to go do stuff with you. Date some American girls. Listen to pop music. Someone said throw away the TV set - I'd actually disagree with that, I think you should watch more TV, but don't just veg out. Instead, listen carefully to what shows the people around you are into, and then watch them so you have something to talk about with them.
This'll all be useful if you ever found a startup in the future, but more to the point, it's essential if you really plan on staying here permanently. My dad never fully assimilated into American culture, which meant that my sister and I had to pick up a lot of it as kids, sometimes very painfully. And then it caused conflict with my father, who remained very Chinese (and distrustful of Americans) until he died. If you stay here, you'll need to interact with Americans wherever you go, you'll need to rely upon them to build a business, and your kids will become American. Better to join them than fight them.
It's very easy for non-foreigners to forget just how much of an advantage cultural capital gives them. There's this huge iceberg of cultural skills that white middle-class Americans take for-granted, that are just unknown to foreigners, poor people, minorities, or children of foreigners. You hear these stories about immigrant entrepreneurs who hit it big in America - but if you talk to any of them, you usually find that they mastered the culture first, and then founded their companies. It's not a matter of "the smartest engineer wins"; it's a matter of "the smartest engineer who acts and talks like me and that I can feel comfortable doing business with wins".
Not necessarily true. If he comes from a country with a significantly different culture (i.e., somewhere other than Europe), he would probably be more comfortable marrying someone of his own nationality who is also a recent immigrant, and thus is more likely to also be a non-citizen.
Unless there is some other point to this comment that is going WAY above my head.
Background: I'm a citizen, and my wife when through the process when we got married six years ago. She became a citizen a couple of years ago.
Also, if you get divorce after getting green card and if USCIS finds out that you married citizen only to get green card, they can revoke it.
But the unqualified "no leverage" of the OP seemed to imply at least to me that they thought that the green card would be taken away in a divorce irrespective of number of years of marriage (it doesn't after two years unless you got into a fraudulent marriage).
And I do not think the GP suggested getting a sham marriage. Yes, if you really enter into a sham marriage then the "wife" will have lots of leverage over you.
You're right, though, in that I shouldn't assume that he doesn't understand American culture - there's just no information either way. So if he does, it basically amounts to waiting until he can get his green card (or better yet, citizenship). I still think he's better off broadening out socially than concentrating on the technical aspects - after all, one of the complaints with the post was that he couldn't find a cofounder that he clicked with.
And yes, marriage is still probably the fastest way to citizenship, all the caveats about doing it for love and not for papers still applying.
I absolutely agree, though, that if one wants to be accepted and progress, assimilating in a culture is crucial.
Or just choose to give up the green card for something which matters more to you.
Things Other People Accomplished When They Were Your Age http://www.museumofconceptualart.com/accomplished/
Thirty is not old. Keep working. It doesn't matter if someone else swoops in and "steals" it. You'll have other and better ideas.
I'm finding working alone on my startup quite hard. And all that emotional rollercoaster stuff I heard about also seems to be true. I'm doing it fulltime and still feel like I'm moving painfully slow. So I can totally understand your frustration and fear.
I think I agree largely with what edw519 says. Keep the job and keep working on your startup but try and slowly build up the momentum.
Is there a chance for you to get another less demanding job? It sounds like you must have a decent paying job, so presumably you can save a bit of money from that which could help.
Finally, given your situation, the classic route of consulting might be a good option.
Is it the programming? Marketing?
It's been said here so much it might as well be on a stone tablet: 30 isn't too old, but I totally understand that such a milestone can put irrational pressures on someone. Trust me, I know.
As for your other dilemma, your fear that others might catch on to your idea and beat you to the punch.
No one can guarantee a surefire hit. Lord knows there's been a ton of those that ended up being total duds. Consider this though, an idea that's sat on is an idea that's wasted. Don't let the threat of competition scare you off. If you've got a great idea, it will remain great even if others are doing it, and if yours is better, people will come to you.
I've sat on a few ideas of my own for lack of time and technical help, only see other people start their own version of it or another. I think mine's still better, but seeing others attempt it gave me a bit more confidence in the viability of the idea, and a kick in the butt that I gotta get moving. Don't be afraid to find the right people to work with, sometimes it's a trial and error thing, but don't quit.
Find one that's not useless. All the problems you've mentioned can be solved by having another set of hands around to help.
Yes I ve been in your shoes. I got my gc but then realised that my idea/implementation was fundamentally flawed. Now I'm doing all of the above so I can quit in another 6 months.
Use this time to really vet your idea. 3. Seriously network with others
I've researched a couple of options to expedite green card processing and these may be applicable to your case - email johnbray8 at google's email service to chat.
Do I sound like sales guy for Canadian immigration :-) anyway find an immigration lawyer who has knowledge of both countries (USA & Canada), again trust me this will be immensely helpful for planning your future and stability.
edit: by the way, once you get PR for Canada, you may migrate there and easily find a job that is not stressful, you can work for 40hrs and rest of the time you can work for your startup.
Patience.