Keyboards and trackpads were a differentiator for the MacBook, during its rise. They might not stand out today, but ten years ago they were exceptional compared with almost all of their competitor's laptop keyboards. The layout may not have been optimal, but at least the keys didn't feel like they were going to fall off at every press.
I think they're still better than anything on the market. It could be at the software level, but I've never once seen or used a Windows laptop with decent two finger scrolling.
Agreed. As someone who regularly gets "Linux laptops" for work, their keyboards flex inwards and their touchpads are miserable. I often carry a wireless mouse with me to meetings because using those things ends up being such a pain. Never had that issue with Macs.
Lenovo makes the T4xxP series laptops with Quad cores, I'm running one right now. But I would rather not be stuck buying the same model every time I go laptop shopping =\",
Unfortunately I think this model bundles dedicated graphics, which I have no need for. I have yet to find a Linux-friendly PC laptop with quad-core and integrated graphics only.
With the current T470p you can get a quad-core i5 (7300HQ or 7440HQ) with the integrated graphics. So you can get a quad-core. You just can't get the i7 w/o the nvidia graphics.
Thanks for the tip! I'm sure in my research I was always clicking on i7. What's the practical difference between the better of the i5 chips and the i7?
I got a ThinkPad X1 Yoga with an OLED display last year. It's pretty incredible, especially at rendering black and dark colors.
The form-factor is also incredible: very light and thin and just slightly larger than a 13" laptop. This means it fits in my small laptop bag (designed for 13" models) but has a 14" screen and a great keyboard with full-size keys.
The touchpad is also pretty large and top-notch and it comes with the traditional ThinkPad trackpoint pointer if you're into that.
It's not super cheap but if you can afford it, I highly recommend it.
> keyboard ... for most people it is the main way they interact with their machines
The answer is right there: no, most people barely touch the keyboard. Most people are not using laptops as tools to create anything. Most people do nothing but look at Reddit/Facebook endless stream of entertainment and scroll, scroll, scroll. Apple understood this early on and they made the perfect laptop for scrolling, which is now available in Air, Pro and Regular flavors. These aren't for typing.
As long as majority of laptop buyers are content consumers, this is not going to change. However...
It will change. The content consumption has been shifting to mobile: the phones and tablets are taking over. Once a laptop once again becomes primarily a _tool_, decent keyboards (and maybe even tall screens!) will come back, just look at the desktops. As traditional desktops have been 100% abandoned by consumers, the mechanical keyboards and high quality IPS monitors made a smashing comeback, the power users (remaining audience) is willing to pay for nice tools.
2. You can set it to permanently show control keys.
3. It's optional. You can buy the model without it.
4. Some of us actually like it. I use IntelliJ every day and it's great to be able to have dedicated refactor/debug keys instead of having to remember arcane key commands.
> 2. You can set it to permanently show control keys.
You can set it to permanently show images of control keys, on a flat surface. If I wanted a tablet I'd buy a tablet; keys have boundaries between them, push down and spring up, and otherwise respond to fingers in ways that a tablet doesn't.
There is no such an option for the 15-inch model. In fact, the 13-inch model that doesn't come with this bar is the lower-end one. If it is genuinely an 'option', every model should come with a variant without this bar.
Even for the 13-inch, the two models aren't remotely similar outside the outer case. The one without the touchbar is really more like a MacBook Air with a 15W CPU.
How do you remap it? Last I looked (when I was deciding whether or not to ditch CentOS for a Mac) swapping Esc and CapsLock on the Mac required third-party software and was a pain.
How many Macbook Pro users have you surveyed ? And how do you think that compares to Apple who clearly did some product marketing work before adding a very expensive new feature.
That doesn't specify the speed. If you read a review, the non-touchbar one is rated at 867Mbps vs 1.3Gbps for the touchbar model. I'm presuming the difference is in MIMO modes (fewer antennas?)
It's like 10 years ago when first MacBooks came out with chiclet keys, while all other manufacturers used previous design (most of them finally shifted to chiclet by now). Typing on a regular laptop now feels like masochism.
Chiclet is cheap. That is literally the only reason other manufacturers followed.
As to your strange preferences, I cannot understand them. Buckling spring keyboards are far more tactile and I resent that I cannot get them on "premium" products any more.
You mean the one that has a secure enclave for your fingerprint login? I probably will miss the function keys though, maybe they should make a non touchbar Mac with a touchid power button.
That would make too much sense, Apple haven't done sense for a while now - people have called Apple form over function for a long time except now it's actually true, at least WRT their laptops.
>> butterfly keyboards are amazing once you get used to it
Curious - what makes them so "amazing"?
Speaking only for myself-- going back to the 80s, there has only ever been one keyboard that I've ever used that I couldn't get used to (Surface Pro Touch keyboard). For all the others, once I got used to them, I never really felt like one was better than another, just different.
I don't know about the Apple ones, but I've definitely got keyboards of different qualities. Right now, I'm on a Lenovo that was built for classroom use. They keys have a nice travel distance, and a bit of click then they trigger. It makes it comfortable to type on. I've also got an HP Envy. The keypresses are shallower, the first tactile indication that you've triggered the key is when it hits bottom, and the edges of the keys aren't rounded as nicely.
I know that one hurts my fingers after typing for a few hours, and the other one is pretty comfortable after that same time.
They've gotten worse; the physical buttons disappeared. One step closer to useless. No tactile difference between left, right, and center. The drivers are crap; palm detection is spotty, allowing mouseclicks when they shouldn't be allowed, but also often preventing the mouse from being used at the same time as the keyboard.
It's a joy to mindlessly surf the web, but a pain in the ass to do most other things.
> As long as majority of laptop buyers are content consumers, this is not going to change. However...
That would be understandable for the consumer focused lineups but most manufactures also produce business models which are bought to create something and still suffer from the same problem. As can be seen in the example of the Thinkpad keyboards were already better but somehow they decided to worsen them.
> the power users (remaining audience) is willing to pay for nice tools.
As said there already is this business/consumer split and it has been for many years. Business is where the money is made, not at the consumer front where it can't be cheap enough, yet the devices inside this category weirdly are more and more designed not to be the workhorses they are supposed to be.
I believe that is only in passing. I honestly think the majority of laptop manufacturers are not visionaries when it comes to product specs. Only Apple and a couple of niche ones truly seem to know what they are doing. The rest will have a delay to see the change in trends (but they do eventually see it).
I think consumer masses moving away from the laptop market has a dire implications for this market (far less competition, expect premium prices). But on the plus side it should shift the market towards productivity, which is a big plus for some of us.
Most people I know attach external display, mouse and keyboard to their laptops when they use it for programming, or writing large texts. The quality of the laptop keyboard itself it not really relevant. And you never be able to put a real good ergonomic split keyboard in a laptop anyway...
Can confirm; I vastly prefer my Latitude E5450 from work to my old Asus laptop.
I also have a cheapo lenovo thinkpad 2 in 1 that has a surprisingly good keyboard. I say this as someone who has ridiculously snobbish keyboard taste. They're out there!
It's already arriving. Look at the Chromebooks for education. They're thicker, ruggedized. A fair number have more durable keyboards. The battery life is excellent. These are machines for doing assignments -
serious work. Likewise a lot of convertibles are sporting a stylus again to pick up the digital art market. And "Mobile Workstation" has become a sizable laptop segment independent of "gaming laptop". The shift is visible, although it'll be some time before the hardware/software packages are polished enough to satisfy pros with an established workflow.
> Most people are not using laptops as tools to create anything.
Even for people creating stuff. The touchpad is way more important than the keyboard as a developer. I can spend a lot of time scrolling, scrolling, reading code and documentation and stuff. Ok there is a lot of shortcuts involved, but keyboard quality needs to be real bad before it becomes a show stopper.
Sure there are days were I code all day. But even there, the IDE is doing a lot of the work too. In a language like java, you never have to type a method, class or variable name beyond the first time you defined them. And the IDE will even suggest good enough variable names.
Now that I'm thinking off, this is probably the longest sequence of word that I have written unassisted for the day. Commenting on HN, or documentation, or email is what a good keyboard is useful for.
If I'm developing, there can be hours between times that I use the mouse. I don't consider it remotely a priority. The quality of the keyboard in most laptops is already "real bad", and has been for a long time, IMO.
Consumer oriented laptops have touch screens. They are more efficient at controlling on screen stuff than touchpad. I'd like a touchscreen for my next laptop too.
So how do you explain the prevalence of keyboard add-ons for tablets?
It seems there are quite a few people out there who not only need keyboards but they even try and make them work with devices built to be entirely touch centric.
It's surprising how no laptop manufacturer has managed to come up with a trackpad that comes close to being a decent competitor to Apple's.
I'd love for a non-Apple laptop to have the (older) MacBook trackpad and keyboards — not the huge trackpads or butterfly switches that come with the current generation ones.
> The 2017 model has the second generation keyboard which is significantly better than the 2016.
I thought both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros had the second-generation butterfly switches. Wasn't the first iteration of the butterfly switch only in the first generation 12" MacBook (the one with one USB-C port)?
I love the new keyboards. They feel so solid and strangely "direct" compared to the old ones (which now feel like typing on marshmallows by comparison). Same goes for the iPad Pro smart keyboard cover. The stability and "clickiness" of the keys outweighs the depth of travel for me.
I'd argue that the Surface Book is of the similar quality and the keyboard is certainly light-years ahead. I've got a mac pro at work that's nothing but a pile of squishy keys.
Not to say that the MacBook is better, but I found the Surface Book's keyboard to be infuriating: No right Ctrl key (how do you press Ctrl+I/L/M/P?). Fn lock lamp (one more mode to remember). Hard-to-find Home/End keys. Home/End/PgUp/PgDn mapped over F8/F9/F10/F11 keys. And ironically, I find the key labels easier to read in black with the backlight off, than in white with the backlight on.
I've never used Apple's, but I have an ASUS gaming laptop with the most awesome (and large) trackpad I've ever used. Admittedly it's not a cheap computer, but that was one of several very pleasant surprises when I unboxed it.
Between T520 and T550, there was T530, which had basically the chiclet version of the T520 keyboard, and it was just as good if not better than the T520 keyboard. Indeed, Lenovo really screwed up with the T540 and beyond - the useless numeric pad shifts the rest of the keyboard way off center. Fortunately, there's the T4XX series, that has a very good keyboard still.
I recently did a little bit of research and as far as I could find, currently there are exactly two 15" laptops with tenkey-less keyboards: Apple's and (now) the Dell XPS 15.
I can attest, the keyboard on the 5th gen X1 Carbon is also excellent. Remarkably, they actually managed to improve on previous generations (which, for the record, have Backspace, Delete, PgUp, and PgDown keys) by increasing key travel. About its only fault is the Ctrl/Fn key position, but you can swap them via configuration for those who have trouble adapting.
As an aside, I much prefer Fn key mappings for thing like media keys over dedicated buttons: fewer things that actuate means fewer things to break, fewer things that'll get crumbs or liquid under them, etc. The 5th gen carbon has one button aside from what's on the keyboard: the power button. The result is a much simpler, cleaner layout.
I had a W500 and the keyboard was amazing (as was the whole laptop). I replaced the screen, the hard drive, memory, etc. I've bought Thinkpads since IBM sold them because of their keyboards and nub.
I hate the numeric keypad. It throws the balance off and I feel like I have to shift the laptop to the right to type. Is the demographic that wants the numeric keyboard that large? They used to sell a separate one for accounting types, now they all have them and I hate it. They also switched to the chicklet style like Apple. I like the chicklet style on the Macs but I don't think I'd like it on a Thinkpad. I believe they took a row off the keyboard and jammed them together in some jacked up configuration. The home/end/pageup/down isn't in a position that resembles a 101/104. That aggravates me too.
I'm ready to buy a new laptop. My 2013 rMBP is getting old. I've had to repair the trackpad and now it's complaining about a memory module. I looked at the P51s and P71s, but that damn keypad.
Come back to us old Thinkpad keyboard, it was a real differentiator.
Give something like the T470 a try in-store somewhere. I had an old T410 with the old school Thinkpad keyboard, and I loved it, but the chicklet style that Lenovo uses these days is actually pretty damn good.
We had a T4xx series at work. I forgot the exact model. The keyboard was really good, old Thinkpad style, but the home/end key is in a weird place. As a coder, I use home and end probably more than any other keys except maybe space (and backspace hah). I thought about getting one, but I wasn't sure if I could get past it.
I map the Cmd-> and Cmd<- on my Mac to the home and end. It works really well in a Windows VM. Might get the new MacBook, but I'd buy a Thinkpad with an old style layout in a second if it existed. I even tried resurrecting my old W500 to use as an RDP machine, but it's too far gone.
Another feature laptop makers could differentiate is easy repairability. I mean: Make the laptop as easy to repair as it is to repair a (self-built) desktop PC. This is an ideal that can never be reached completely due to the (e.g. space) constraints - but it can serve as an ideal to strive for.
And either provide your modified GPU drivers with regular updates for the whole lifetime of the device (i.e. 3-5 years) or let the GPU vendor do the job. But don't make it hard/impossible to install the GPU vendor's drivers if you cannot regularly provide updates.
Make it easy to find the drivers that you need to install when one sets up the OS newly. I've seen driver websites of laptop vendors where just the complete list of drivers is shown for hardware that might be used in some laptops of the family. Not fun. :-(
Negatiate hard with Microsoft whether you can also provide Windows 10 Enterprise to your customers, where a lot more surveillance functions can be blocked (a large reason why a lot of German companies don't update to Windows 10 - only Enterprise allows decent blocking of the surveillance, but is hard to get).
Not really. Depending on the edition and branch you are using you cannot disable telemetry.
If you have high assurance environment that use O365, the best path right now is Windows 8.1, which takes care of you until 2023. After that, assume that you'll use another platform and make appropriate application decisions.
Can Win 10 LTSB be configured with equivalent assurance to Win 8.1 (or Win 7) minus telemetry updates?
How realistic is application migration for the 2023 timeframe? MacOS requires a hardware change and the macOS/iOS landscape may be very different in six years. If applications wcan afford to invest in migration to Qt/wxWidgets, they can support all three of Windows, macOS and Linux. Electron-based (web) applications are consistent across platforms but memory/resource intensive. This might be improved with WebAssembly.
The most efficient cross-platform app architectures are used by games, which combine a fast garbage-collected runtime (e.g. Lua) with native graphics rendering libraries. The downside is a complete absence of "native" widgets or semi-standard "web widgets".
What could be the options for a high-assurance desktop application architecture of 2023? Let's assume that high-assurance and "cloud/SaaS" are separate markets. Even VDI solutions require an OS to run applications. OpenBSD + Qt? Qubes + unikernels + graphics compositing? Linux + Qt? A fusion of macOS and iOS? A reversal of Microsoft on Windows telemetry and data collection business model? The challenge is for any platform to achieve the scale needed to attract developers, an advantage which Microsoft is throwing away.
That gives me a question: why is the desktop market so different from the laptop market? Maybe because manufacturers are incentivized not to make modular parts because that would compete with their business models. But that doesn't explain companies like Asus which both makes personal computers and provide the parts.
Perhaps the reason is because all the parts to make a laptop are custom for that size specification.
Modularity directly increases space and weight of the parts, you can make a smaller/thighter/lighter laptop by sacrificing repairability.
There are people who'd accept a bit bigger and a bit heavier laptop - so for them you put in more battery in that weight and space, instead of "spending" it on repairability.
This doesn't apply for desktops because there noone cares about tiny differences in space or weight.
How about you use a decent keyboard connected to your desk dock? The only time I need to use the keyboard seriously is when I'm sitting at my office desk or the work desk at my home. And both places have a dock with an awesome keyboard and display connected. I don't even care how the in built keyboard works as long as it's enough for the random Facebook post.
Hint: Many people use laptops when traveling or when not at home or the office. Infact that's the only thing I use mine for. I have a significantly more powerful desktop in my home office.
You can literally get every single one of those things. This idea that the only laptops available are MacBooks and other Ultrabooks is annoying here on HN.
Considering that desktop keyboards are essentially tied to the computer only by a cable (or nothing), it is kind of amazing that laptop keyboards are so integrated. Something like a standard rectangle that can snap in/out or slide in/out different keyboards would sure be nice.
The actual mechanics are mostly standard among manufacturers lately. The shapes are all that's not, and getting laptop manufacturers to design around a fixed range of form factors seems like a tall order.
Its hard to pack a decent keyboard into a super slim profile. My thinkpad t420 is really fat by today's standards but the keyboard on this types like a dream.
I have one of those T5*0s that he's talking about and he's right - the keyboard is awful. Not only those surprise pgup pgdn next to the arrow keys but take a look at PrintScreen jammed in between alt and ctrl! Then I've got the fact that the keycaps are so easy to remove that my 2-year-old has made a game of popping them off and stashing them around the house.
Trackpads on devices that aren’t macs are the work of the devil. Why are they so touchy or non responsive? Why are they so small? Why are they not centered?
It's bizarre. What's also bizarre is that, apparently, it's the new thing to hate modern MacBooks not having physical buttons. I have absolutely _zero_ problems with that, never "accidentally" clicked anything in my life, it's perfectly balanced for just the right amount of pressure.
As for the other things, I've been wondering, too!
> Why are they so small?
Probably because they're afraid people accidentally touch them? I think if Apple dares to make them this big, that's probably an irrational fear.
>Why are they not centered?
After a _long_ time thinking of it, I got an idea: Maybe they're centered on the space bar to be between your hands when typing? That, however, would also mean that they acknowledge that you're usually holding your hands off-center to reach around the number pad. Has anyone used a laptop number pad in the past 20 years? I agree that they should go in favor of a more sensible overall layout.
People aren't just bad at life they are bad at understanding their own relationship with things and predicting what will satisfy them.
People will be subtley dissatisfied with things without examination of why or attempting to alleviate this dissatisfaction.
It is meaningless to posit people are satisfied with the state of things as if this said anything about the value of the current state of things or how people would react to an improvement.
People could have been said to be as satisfied with pocket pcs back around win ce.
After being exposed to a touch screen interface that wasn't completely garbage they overwhelming preferred them and voted with their wallets.
Last month I bought the latest MacBook Pro 15'', and although I'm really happy with my purchase, I've definitely experienced a lot of accidental clicks. Sometimes I'll rest my hands and they accidentally land on the huge trackpad or touchbar. Other times I try dragging stuff around but I screw up and end up dropping things in the wrong place. Admittedly, as I've used the laptop more the problems have become less frequent.
They made the new trackpad so big that the gap between it and the spacebar shrunk to something like 3 mm. I used to rest my thumbs on that gap and I can't any more. Took a fair bit of time getting used to it.
Same with not being able to rest your fingers on the touch bar.
I have absolutely _zero_ problems with that, never "accidentally" clicked anything in my life, it's perfectly balanced for just the right amount of pressure.
Dragging requires more effort since you have to both move the finger horizontally while maintaining downward pressure, which increases the friction significantly. If the button was separate, you can hold it with one finger while just touching the touchpad and controlling movement with the other.
Not sure if this exists on modern MacOS, but you used to be able to move three fingers along the glass without clicking to drag. I think you had to enable the gesture.
You can still do this in macOS [1]. It's one of the first things I change on any new MacBook, along with remapping Caps Lock to Control.
I'm not sure why Apple doesn't present this as a main option instead of burying it in the settings.
In my opinion, it's a significant usability & productivity improvement. Three finger drag makes selecting text a breeze, along with quickly moving applications across monitors.
Having to maintain pressure while awkwardly moving your finger across the touchpad, while simultaneously appeasing the force touch gods, seems rather uncivilized.
My issue is less about accidental clicks and more about accuracy: I have not yet figured out how to depress the pad without moving the cursor. Even one-in-ten outright misses is enough to make computer use absolutely infuriating.
I use the numberpad all the time as a Mechanical engineer. ffs, there are other fields than clacky clack let's make another bullshit frontend library artists.
Is that the same technology as what's used in the Surface? I was really disappointed by the Surface touchpad. Sticky texture, small, too close to the edge, scrolling is discrete and clicky... It felt like a synaptics touchpad from ten years ago.
Agreed, the XPS 15/precision 5510 touchpad is the best touchpad there is in my opinion. Just the right texture, gestures are perfect every time, perfect resistance on the physical click. Heavenly.
Wait, what, lol? As someone having been looking for laptops quite a few times in the past few years, I find it ridiculous how hard it is to find something with a) the exact hardware you want/need and b) not having a super shitty case/design. It's bizarre! You'd think you go to a website, pick a CPU, RAM, GPU, harddisk, screen and case. Hey, maybe you have to pay $100 extra for someone screwing that shit together in half an hour, I'd do that!
I'm still waiting for swappable gpu wherein a) you can actually buy the gpu and b) future generations support the same standards without different cooling and power requirements
Why not ask for 20 hour battery life while gaming in a lighter chassis? If we're playing the "design a device with no thought to the physical realities" game, let's get creative!
Although on a more serious note, you can have this today as long as thunderbolt is okay.
I owned a computer with this about 9 years ago in theory.
In reality it was only within a small range of gpu wherein price wise it made little sense to go with anything but the best of I think 2 or 3 possibilities.
Unfortunately while you could select from multiple options at purchase you couldn't actually buy even those options after the fact so nobody could have upgraded after the fact.
Future editions had different thermal characteristics and didn't fit. I heard anecdotal evidence that at least some had physically modified the heat sink and made a original generation + 1 gpu work but couldn't confirm and I have no idea where they were supposed to have actually bought such a thing.
I will have to check out what is being done with external gpu recently it certainly seemed like an interesting idea.
I used to own IBM model M when I was 15 and I was very happy to throw it away and buy an ordinal keyboard when they appeared in Russia. Being a part of "keyboard cult" for several years, I owned several "ergonomic" keyboards including Ergodox(which I have sold several days ago) and can say that it's a hype. Laptop keyboards are good enough for touch typing. Two things I'd like to have - non-staggered layout and split groups for each hand. Everything else above this does not add any usability at all.
Interesting feedback, as I have been considering an Ergodox. All I want is a split keyboard with 10+cm between the two sides, but the build quality of split normal keyboards (like Goldtouch, Kinesis Freestyle 2, Matias Ergo Pro) is shocking. I don't want something zany or a 60% keyboard (I like arrow keys, dedicated page up/down, home/end and function keys) but... the choices aren't there.
I damaged my wrists a while ago so I'm very sensitive to the wrong wrist position. Unfortunately, I could not position Ergodox so doesn't cause me wrist pain. Also I find the travel distance of mechanical keys way too long. Otherwise Ergodox is one of the best keyboards in terms of layout and customizability. You can try Microsoft Sculpt. Not the latest version with numpad, but a previous version. It is split, has good enough scissor switches and has the best wrist support on the market which is built in the keyboard.
I blame the "thin, light, cheap" trend. Flat, island-style keys with an equally thin switch mechanism are easier to manufacture, thinner, and lighter than the traditional design.
Other keys that are seldom used and could probably be done without are: Scroll Lock, Insert, SysReq, Home, and End. Removing unnecessary keys would free up space and improve usability.
I strongly disagree. Scroll Lock causes the viewpoint to scroll instead of the cursor in a few programs I use. Insert/Home/End are essential for text editing. SysRq doesn't sound so useful until you realise that it's also known as the Print Screen key, and if you use Linux extensively then the actual SysRq function also becomes invaluable ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key ). On the other hand, I've found "media/multimedia keys" pretty useless, and F-keys defaulted to something else is extremely irritating.
I also disagree that the numpad is "useless": it's very effective for entering numbers, such as when you need to calculate something (of course, this is probably a minority opinion as most people seem to find maths mostly useless in general...)
Personally, I'd be happy if laptop makers would stop trying to change keyboard layouts around and just keep all 10x standard keys as found on the IBM desktop PC keyboard (omitting the numpad is acceptable if the laptop is not wide enough), and go back to the traditional taller switch mechanism with curved, area-filling keys. The T60/X60 comes close.
Keep in mind that these functions aren't being removed, just shifted to keyboard shortcuts. Do you really hit Print Screen more often, or more impatiently, than Ctrl+S? Besides, shortcuts are sometimes faster, by virtue of keeping your fingers near the home row.
I use all three a lot when editing text, although I suppose I could install vim extensions/plugins in everything I use instead. I'd say they're non-essential, but annoying to be without, in the way that I use my machine.
Macbook Pros need a spring-loaded drop out ethernet jack, the thunderbolt doodad gets really hot, isn't as easy as ethernet to plug/unplug and is annoying to have on your desk to say the least.
I have a USB 3.0 type-A to Ethernet adapter and it's a pleasure to use with my old MacBook Pro. I wish they'd solve the grip issue on USB-C (and Thunderbolt/mini-DP).
I was strongly agreeing with the article until the last part where he went on a crusade to remove keys.
> For example, the large Caps Lock key is a waste of space on a crowded keyboard. I never use it, but often hit it by mistake CAUSING ALL LETTERS TO BE CAPITALISED.
Some people remap this to Ctrl. Anyway, users are so accustomed to a physical key in this position (regardless of what function they map it to) that it would be a disservice to remove it.
> Other keys that are seldom used and could probably be done without are: Scroll Lock, Insert, SysReq, Home, and End. Removing unnecessary keys would free up space and improve usability.
Are you kidding about not using Home and End? They are the lifeblood of text editing on Windows. Have you never selected a line with Shift+Home? Jumped to the end of the text with Ctrl+End? Or do you always mouse-select text?
One of my laptop keyboards did not have dedicated Home+End keys, and had to access them with Fn+PgUp/PgDn. It was inconvenient to use, and was glad to switch to a ThinkPad that had real Home+End keys!
> Google took some steps in this direction when they introduced Chromebooks in 2011. They removed the Caps Lock key, all the F1 to F12 keys, Home, End, Delete, Page Up/Down and the entire number pad.
You can't seriously be approving the removal of F1 to F12 keys. Do you not use F2 to rename a file? F3 to find next? Alt+F4 to close a window? F5 to reload a webpage? F11 to full-screen the browser? F12 to open the web development pane?
> Apple have removed some of the more peripheral keys, including Page Up/Down [...] Removing Caps Lock would be great but I find the Page Up/Down keys to be very useful
Glad to see that you don't agree with the removal of PgUp/PgDn.
I agree. The closer a laptop keyboard is to a 101/104 layout (minus numeric keypad) the better. That's what made Thinkpad so great. I could switch from the desktop to the laptop without hesitation.
I don't think the idea is the removal of the functionality, just the physical keys. Any half decent laptop will have home, end, page up and page down mapped to Fn+Arrows which to me is a smarter solution.
I'm strongly against Fn+Arrow keys. On such keyboards pressing Ctrl+Shift+Home (select all text from current position to beginning of document) or similar shortcuts requires too many keys to be pressed at once.
I like keyboard layouts on laptops like System76 13/14 inch models or Gigabyte Aero 14. Full size arrow keys, not that half-size nonsence. And dedicated PgUp/Down and Home/End keys.
I completely agree with your post. Removing the home/end & function keys is such a waste given the amount of free space for keys on every single notebook ever made.
edit: I realized I hadn't taken my initial argument to complete absurdity, "Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard":
I am aware of vim, but don't find its working style comfortable. It's true that vim can work well on a plain keyboard without needing arrow keys, Ctrl key, home/end/pgup/pgdn, shift-selecting, mouse, etc.
I like being able to type and select at any time, without having to remember which mode is active. Also, using Dvorak destroys the intuitive hjkl keys for positioning.
MacBook Wheel was great satire from The Onion ;-D. It vaguely reminds me of how annoying it was to type passwords and search terms on the Apple TV remote's D pad. For home theatre PC use, it seems most my friends choose a Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400.
I set up a Roku for someone and the d-pad on the remote jumped twice instead of once for every click. Putting in a password required mod 2 arithmetic and switching between rows/columns with even/odd lengths. Things can always become more absurd.
I don't normally comment, but this author and I strongly disagree on the ideal keyboard on almost .every. .single. .point., in fact there is no need to enumerate them because I disagree with all of them.
But, the most glaring problem is the idealized keyboard for a laptop being one with a 10 key area. When you sit down at a desktop you can position the external keyboard to center the G/H keys in the middle of your monitor and type comfortably. If you shift the G/H to the left it makes you move your arms to the left for 99.9999% of your typing - unless you still do 10-key data entry for some reason.
The second overall problem I have is the idea that you need dozens of keys that are not essential to the function of your ability to TYPE on the laptop. Sure, you could have a button to disable the wireless on your laptop - but this is exactly the kind of key that SHOULDN'T be on a laptop. I have had to "fix" so many laptops by re-pressing the wireless toggle key that I have been tempted to physically break the key.
I'm only ranting here just incase any keyboard designers think this article has any merit and tries to design a laptop-keyboard-from-hell like this.
You might make the argument that using Excel is like being a data entry clerk, but having actually having had a job as a data entry clerk in the 80s, I can tell you it is not the same thing.
Louis did a nice video on the older keyboard/trackpad vs the newer ones, which I agree with. Modern keyboards actually aren't bad, but the trackpads are terrible. The entire design of having left and right click as just one big flat button causes so many issues.
That's because trackpads are now used to control as you would on a phone/tablet : tap for single click, double tap for double-click, two-finger tap for right click, pinch to zoom, etc.
Ideally, there would still be buttons to allow both types of control though.
Talk about irritating. A laptop is not a phone/tablet. A laptop, even a tiny netbook, is big enough to allow the LUXURY of haptic feedback, so why not provide it?!
Apple's trackpads provide haptic feedback. If you push them gently, there is a soft click, if you push them more, there is a hard click.
An additional benefit over hard buttons is that applications can use it for additional feedback. E.g. OmniGraffle provides subtle haptic feedback via the trackpad when objects align, which I find extremely handy for quickly aligning objects.
I like distinct buttons. I like being able to tell by feel where my fingers are. I lose track of my finger's position on a big trackpad where the only clues to finger position are the edges of the pad. This leads to touch leakage: you go click but you touch halfway in the button area and half-way in the trackpad area and so the mouse pointer jumps as you click, thus clicking on the wrong thing. Talk about irritating!
I personally love the huge trackpads Apple builds. Especially the double tap right-click and all the swipe features. I think the dedicated button ones are super inconvenient, because you’d have to move your finger there instead of clicking/tapping anywhere
My laptop has 2 physical buttons, but the lack of a middle mouse button irritates me. A huge amount of the web browsing I do involves opening links in new tabs with the middle mouse button.
I started doing it with ctrl-left click on laptops a long time ago...but it's an annoying switch if I've been using a desktop or an external mouse all day.
My laptop has 2 sets of 3 physical buttons (HP zbook 15). Unfortunately it's got a number pad that puts the touchpad and the space bar out of center. I have to shift the whole laptop to the right and place the main windows on the left to have them where my eyes are. The only 15" laptop without that issue was a Mac but it comes with a top bar and a global menu which are worse issues IMHO.
It seems that most people but developers like and actually use number pads. I think I touched it ten times in 3 years, included checking that it worked.
I think you misunderstood the article re. the number pad - it argues against number pads on laptops.
"Last laptop ever made with excellent keyboard design? (Lenovo Thinkpad T520, fr 2011)" - no numpad.
The IBM Model M keyboard is just raised as the prototypical desktop keyboard design, and the numpad there is commented as "Separate number pad possible on large keyboard without disturbing main keyboard" - which is hard to argue against.
I just want a non-Apple laptop that is as sturdy as an Apple laptop. Yes, I know they aren't impact-resistant, but those unibody aluminum cases last forever.
The 2016 model that I have has an aluminum chassis and glass screen. It's pretty much like my 2011 unibody MBP except that it's a little wider (because of the numpad).
AFAIK, the 2017 model is just less wide but same build.
A number pad on a laptop that sets the keyboard/trackpad off-center is inexcusable. Completely unergonomic. It's the manufacturer not giving a second thought to their product. It's the sign of a terrible laptop. At that point, what goes under the hood is irrelevant.
Do you mean http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-its-alive/ the Retro ThinkPad? It's coming, I am waiting and if it sports the old seven row keyboard and Thunderbolt then I am buying and not asking the price. Do yo know why? Let's run some numbers! If I charge 130 USD / hr as a consultant (as consultants handle their own taxes as such, it's the equivalent of a 130K yearly which is not crazy high for a sr sw architect/developer) and this machine makes me 1 percent more effective than the second best then it's earning me 10 bucks a day. An 5000 dollar machine will earn itself back in two short years. And this is at 1% while I believe the difference to be much, much bigger. I am ready to invest but there's no product since the T420 family which would be worth investing in. It also gives us an idea of the lifespan of these machines: the T420 family is from 2011 and it's not like they are on their last legs six years later.
Also, read the https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73419.0 Matias Ergo Pro review on some interesting design decision that went into that particular keyboard. (And yes, it's the one I use vertically and can only recommend doing the same.)
Interestingly enough, some gaming laptops are the ones that at least attempt to have a semi decent keyboard by using mechanical switches.
What's the point? If you want a decent keyboard then you have to carry one. There's no way that using a laptop on your lap can be healthy for you (neck pain), while raising the laptop to improve the strain on your neck... can't help your hands.
Anyways, that's what I do: travel with a compact wired keyboard. And that's my advice.
As for differentiating laptops, lots of other things seem like better characteristics to compare: freedom, privacy (mechanical webcam and mic disable switches), mic quality, speaker quality, RAM, battery life, GPU, SSD vs. HDD, weight, ...
One thing I hate is the bevelling on Macs: it actually hurts my fingers, but then again, I carry an external keyboard (and mouse) anyways, so this wouldn't stop me from buying a Mac.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 228 ms ] threadThe form-factor is also incredible: very light and thin and just slightly larger than a 13" laptop. This means it fits in my small laptop bag (designed for 13" models) but has a 14" screen and a great keyboard with full-size keys.
The touchpad is also pretty large and top-notch and it comes with the traditional ThinkPad trackpoint pointer if you're into that.
It's not super cheap but if you can afford it, I highly recommend it.
The answer is right there: no, most people barely touch the keyboard. Most people are not using laptops as tools to create anything. Most people do nothing but look at Reddit/Facebook endless stream of entertainment and scroll, scroll, scroll. Apple understood this early on and they made the perfect laptop for scrolling, which is now available in Air, Pro and Regular flavors. These aren't for typing.
As long as majority of laptop buyers are content consumers, this is not going to change. However...
It will change. The content consumption has been shifting to mobile: the phones and tablets are taking over. Once a laptop once again becomes primarily a _tool_, decent keyboards (and maybe even tall screens!) will come back, just look at the desktops. As traditional desktops have been 100% abandoned by consumers, the mechanical keyboards and high quality IPS monitors made a smashing comeback, the power users (remaining audience) is willing to pay for nice tools.
Their second generation, butterfly keyboards are amazing once you get used to it and aren't some indication that they are abandoning content creators.
2. You can set it to permanently show control keys.
3. It's optional. You can buy the model without it.
4. Some of us actually like it. I use IntelliJ every day and it's great to be able to have dedicated refactor/debug keys instead of having to remember arcane key commands.
You can set it to permanently show images of control keys, on a flat surface. If I wanted a tablet I'd buy a tablet; keys have boundaries between them, push down and spring up, and otherwise respond to fingers in ways that a tablet doesn't.
some people seem to think that apple is in the business of personally catering to their every whim.
i totally get why you wouldn’t like the touch bar, but you don’t have to buy that model. in fact, you don’t have to buy a macbook at all.
it’s also pretty astonishing to me how many people vehemently hate this thing they’ve never even tried to use.
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
And for more money you can spec them identically.
And not the same CPUs. Max CPU speed without Touch Bar is 2.5Ghz, while the Touch Bar models begin at 3.1Ghz.
Different GPUs as well: Iris Plus 640 v Iris Plus 650.
It's a downgrade: the pre-touchbar MacBook Pros (and the touchbar ones) have 3x3 MIMO wifi/BT chipsets.
I'm yet to meet a single person who likes the touch bar after 1 month.
The only problem is the lack of ESC key really, but after you remap it to Caps Lock everything is good again.
How many Macbook Pro users have you surveyed ? And how do you think that compares to Apple who clearly did some product marketing work before adding a very expensive new feature.
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
https://arstechnica.com/video/2016/11/the-2016-13-and-15-inc...
It's like 10 years ago when first MacBooks came out with chiclet keys, while all other manufacturers used previous design (most of them finally shifted to chiclet by now). Typing on a regular laptop now feels like masochism.
As to your strange preferences, I cannot understand them. Buckling spring keyboards are far more tactile and I resent that I cannot get them on "premium" products any more.
That would make too much sense, Apple haven't done sense for a while now - people have called Apple form over function for a long time except now it's actually true, at least WRT their laptops.
Curious - what makes them so "amazing"?
Speaking only for myself-- going back to the 80s, there has only ever been one keyboard that I've ever used that I couldn't get used to (Surface Pro Touch keyboard). For all the others, once I got used to them, I never really felt like one was better than another, just different.
I know that one hurts my fingers after typing for a few hours, and the other one is pretty comfortable after that same time.
Don't forget porn!
It's a joy to mindlessly surf the web, but a pain in the ass to do most other things.
That would be understandable for the consumer focused lineups but most manufactures also produce business models which are bought to create something and still suffer from the same problem. As can be seen in the example of the Thinkpad keyboards were already better but somehow they decided to worsen them.
> the power users (remaining audience) is willing to pay for nice tools.
As said there already is this business/consumer split and it has been for many years. Business is where the money is made, not at the consumer front where it can't be cheap enough, yet the devices inside this category weirdly are more and more designed not to be the workhorses they are supposed to be.
I think consumer masses moving away from the laptop market has a dire implications for this market (far less competition, expect premium prices). But on the plus side it should shift the market towards productivity, which is a big plus for some of us.
https://twitter.com/chuckmoyes/status/868582082896830464
It's such a shame to see them go downhill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doEZMNXz1JY
I also have a cheapo lenovo thinkpad 2 in 1 that has a surprisingly good keyboard. I say this as someone who has ridiculously snobbish keyboard taste. They're out there!
Even for people creating stuff. The touchpad is way more important than the keyboard as a developer. I can spend a lot of time scrolling, scrolling, reading code and documentation and stuff. Ok there is a lot of shortcuts involved, but keyboard quality needs to be real bad before it becomes a show stopper.
Sure there are days were I code all day. But even there, the IDE is doing a lot of the work too. In a language like java, you never have to type a method, class or variable name beyond the first time you defined them. And the IDE will even suggest good enough variable names.
Now that I'm thinking off, this is probably the longest sequence of word that I have written unassisted for the day. Commenting on HN, or documentation, or email is what a good keyboard is useful for.
It seems there are quite a few people out there who not only need keyboards but they even try and make them work with devices built to be entirely touch centric.
I'd love for a non-Apple laptop to have the (older) MacBook trackpad and keyboards — not the huge trackpads or butterfly switches that come with the current generation ones.
Also might want to be clear which MacBook you are talking about.
The 2017 model has the second generation keyboard which is significantly better than the 2016.
I thought both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros had the second-generation butterfly switches. Wasn't the first iteration of the butterfly switch only in the first generation 12" MacBook (the one with one USB-C port)?
The keyboard is nothing special though.
Would you mind sharing what model it is?
https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-G750JZ/
As an aside, I much prefer Fn key mappings for thing like media keys over dedicated buttons: fewer things that actuate means fewer things to break, fewer things that'll get crumbs or liquid under them, etc. The 5th gen carbon has one button aside from what's on the keyboard: the power button. The result is a much simpler, cleaner layout.
I hate the numeric keypad. It throws the balance off and I feel like I have to shift the laptop to the right to type. Is the demographic that wants the numeric keyboard that large? They used to sell a separate one for accounting types, now they all have them and I hate it. They also switched to the chicklet style like Apple. I like the chicklet style on the Macs but I don't think I'd like it on a Thinkpad. I believe they took a row off the keyboard and jammed them together in some jacked up configuration. The home/end/pageup/down isn't in a position that resembles a 101/104. That aggravates me too.
I'm ready to buy a new laptop. My 2013 rMBP is getting old. I've had to repair the trackpad and now it's complaining about a memory module. I looked at the P51s and P71s, but that damn keypad.
Come back to us old Thinkpad keyboard, it was a real differentiator.
I map the Cmd-> and Cmd<- on my Mac to the home and end. It works really well in a Windows VM. Might get the new MacBook, but I'd buy a Thinkpad with an old style layout in a second if it existed. I even tried resurrecting my old W500 to use as an RDP machine, but it's too far gone.
And either provide your modified GPU drivers with regular updates for the whole lifetime of the device (i.e. 3-5 years) or let the GPU vendor do the job. But don't make it hard/impossible to install the GPU vendor's drivers if you cannot regularly provide updates.
Make it easy to find the drivers that you need to install when one sets up the OS newly. I've seen driver websites of laptop vendors where just the complete list of drivers is shown for hardware that might be used in some laptops of the family. Not fun. :-(
Negatiate hard with Microsoft whether you can also provide Windows 10 Enterprise to your customers, where a lot more surveillance functions can be blocked (a large reason why a lot of German companies don't update to Windows 10 - only Enterprise allows decent blocking of the surveillance, but is hard to get).
If you have high assurance environment that use O365, the best path right now is Windows 8.1, which takes care of you until 2023. After that, assume that you'll use another platform and make appropriate application decisions.
How realistic is application migration for the 2023 timeframe? MacOS requires a hardware change and the macOS/iOS landscape may be very different in six years. If applications wcan afford to invest in migration to Qt/wxWidgets, they can support all three of Windows, macOS and Linux. Electron-based (web) applications are consistent across platforms but memory/resource intensive. This might be improved with WebAssembly.
The most efficient cross-platform app architectures are used by games, which combine a fast garbage-collected runtime (e.g. Lua) with native graphics rendering libraries. The downside is a complete absence of "native" widgets or semi-standard "web widgets".
What could be the options for a high-assurance desktop application architecture of 2023? Let's assume that high-assurance and "cloud/SaaS" are separate markets. Even VDI solutions require an OS to run applications. OpenBSD + Qt? Qubes + unikernels + graphics compositing? Linux + Qt? A fusion of macOS and iOS? A reversal of Microsoft on Windows telemetry and data collection business model? The challenge is for any platform to achieve the scale needed to attract developers, an advantage which Microsoft is throwing away.
Perhaps the reason is because all the parts to make a laptop are custom for that size specification.
There are people who'd accept a bit bigger and a bit heavier laptop - so for them you put in more battery in that weight and space, instead of "spending" it on repairability.
This doesn't apply for desktops because there noone cares about tiny differences in space or weight.
The laptop is basically unusable.
As for the other things, I've been wondering, too!
> Why are they so small?
Probably because they're afraid people accidentally touch them? I think if Apple dares to make them this big, that's probably an irrational fear.
>Why are they not centered?
After a _long_ time thinking of it, I got an idea: Maybe they're centered on the space bar to be between your hands when typing? That, however, would also mean that they acknowledge that you're usually holding your hands off-center to reach around the number pad. Has anyone used a laptop number pad in the past 20 years? I agree that they should go in favor of a more sensible overall layout.
People will be subtley dissatisfied with things without examination of why or attempting to alleviate this dissatisfaction.
It is meaningless to posit people are satisfied with the state of things as if this said anything about the value of the current state of things or how people would react to an improvement.
People could have been said to be as satisfied with pocket pcs back around win ce.
After being exposed to a touch screen interface that wasn't completely garbage they overwhelming preferred them and voted with their wallets.
Same with not being able to rest your fingers on the touch bar.
Dragging requires more effort since you have to both move the finger horizontally while maintaining downward pressure, which increases the friction significantly. If the button was separate, you can hold it with one finger while just touching the touchpad and controlling movement with the other.
I'm not sure why Apple doesn't present this as a main option instead of burying it in the settings.
In my opinion, it's a significant usability & productivity improvement. Three finger drag makes selecting text a breeze, along with quickly moving applications across monitors.
Having to maintain pressure while awkwardly moving your finger across the touchpad, while simultaneously appeasing the force touch gods, seems rather uncivilized.
[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204609
Accountants use them all the time, along with a lot of other people whose job requires entering a lot of numerical data.
Wait, what, lol? As someone having been looking for laptops quite a few times in the past few years, I find it ridiculous how hard it is to find something with a) the exact hardware you want/need and b) not having a super shitty case/design. It's bizarre! You'd think you go to a website, pick a CPU, RAM, GPU, harddisk, screen and case. Hey, maybe you have to pay $100 extra for someone screwing that shit together in half an hour, I'd do that!
Although on a more serious note, you can have this today as long as thunderbolt is okay.
In reality it was only within a small range of gpu wherein price wise it made little sense to go with anything but the best of I think 2 or 3 possibilities.
Unfortunately while you could select from multiple options at purchase you couldn't actually buy even those options after the fact so nobody could have upgraded after the fact.
Future editions had different thermal characteristics and didn't fit. I heard anecdotal evidence that at least some had physically modified the heat sink and made a original generation + 1 gpu work but couldn't confirm and I have no idea where they were supposed to have actually bought such a thing.
I will have to check out what is being done with external gpu recently it certainly seemed like an interesting idea.
Other keys that are seldom used and could probably be done without are: Scroll Lock, Insert, SysReq, Home, and End. Removing unnecessary keys would free up space and improve usability.
I strongly disagree. Scroll Lock causes the viewpoint to scroll instead of the cursor in a few programs I use. Insert/Home/End are essential for text editing. SysRq doesn't sound so useful until you realise that it's also known as the Print Screen key, and if you use Linux extensively then the actual SysRq function also becomes invaluable ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key ). On the other hand, I've found "media/multimedia keys" pretty useless, and F-keys defaulted to something else is extremely irritating.
I also disagree that the numpad is "useless": it's very effective for entering numbers, such as when you need to calculate something (of course, this is probably a minority opinion as most people seem to find maths mostly useless in general...)
Personally, I'd be happy if laptop makers would stop trying to change keyboard layouts around and just keep all 10x standard keys as found on the IBM desktop PC keyboard (omitting the numpad is acceptable if the laptop is not wide enough), and go back to the traditional taller switch mechanism with curved, area-filling keys. The T60/X60 comes close.
I manage to edit text without these buttons so they are demonstrably not essential.
... for you. For GP they obviously are.
Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
On a side note, I wonder if they make Ethernet cables with the adapter built in.
I find the smooth texture (on at least the Apple cables) to be a pain to grip. It's easier for me with USB type-A cables as there's more surface area.
> For example, the large Caps Lock key is a waste of space on a crowded keyboard. I never use it, but often hit it by mistake CAUSING ALL LETTERS TO BE CAPITALISED.
Some people remap this to Ctrl. Anyway, users are so accustomed to a physical key in this position (regardless of what function they map it to) that it would be a disservice to remove it.
> Other keys that are seldom used and could probably be done without are: Scroll Lock, Insert, SysReq, Home, and End. Removing unnecessary keys would free up space and improve usability.
Are you kidding about not using Home and End? They are the lifeblood of text editing on Windows. Have you never selected a line with Shift+Home? Jumped to the end of the text with Ctrl+End? Or do you always mouse-select text?
One of my laptop keyboards did not have dedicated Home+End keys, and had to access them with Fn+PgUp/PgDn. It was inconvenient to use, and was glad to switch to a ThinkPad that had real Home+End keys!
> Google took some steps in this direction when they introduced Chromebooks in 2011. They removed the Caps Lock key, all the F1 to F12 keys, Home, End, Delete, Page Up/Down and the entire number pad.
You can't seriously be approving the removal of F1 to F12 keys. Do you not use F2 to rename a file? F3 to find next? Alt+F4 to close a window? F5 to reload a webpage? F11 to full-screen the browser? F12 to open the web development pane?
> Apple have removed some of the more peripheral keys, including Page Up/Down [...] Removing Caps Lock would be great but I find the Page Up/Down keys to be very useful
Glad to see that you don't agree with the removal of PgUp/PgDn.
I like keyboard layouts on laptops like System76 13/14 inch models or Gigabyte Aero 14. Full size arrow keys, not that half-size nonsence. And dedicated PgUp/Down and Home/End keys.
http://vintagecomputer.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/LSI-ADM...
I completely agree with your post. Removing the home/end & function keys is such a waste given the amount of free space for keys on every single notebook ever made.
edit: I realized I hadn't taken my initial argument to complete absurdity, "Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
I like being able to type and select at any time, without having to remember which mode is active. Also, using Dvorak destroys the intuitive hjkl keys for positioning.
MacBook Wheel was great satire from The Onion ;-D. It vaguely reminds me of how annoying it was to type passwords and search terms on the Apple TV remote's D pad. For home theatre PC use, it seems most my friends choose a Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400.
But, the most glaring problem is the idealized keyboard for a laptop being one with a 10 key area. When you sit down at a desktop you can position the external keyboard to center the G/H keys in the middle of your monitor and type comfortably. If you shift the G/H to the left it makes you move your arms to the left for 99.9999% of your typing - unless you still do 10-key data entry for some reason.
The second overall problem I have is the idea that you need dozens of keys that are not essential to the function of your ability to TYPE on the laptop. Sure, you could have a button to disable the wireless on your laptop - but this is exactly the kind of key that SHOULDN'T be on a laptop. I have had to "fix" so many laptops by re-pressing the wireless toggle key that I have been tempted to physically break the key.
I'm only ranting here just incase any keyboard designers think this article has any merit and tries to design a laptop-keyboard-from-hell like this.
Just don't.
A lot of heavy Excel users would disagree.
You might make the argument that using Excel is like being a data entry clerk, but having actually having had a job as a data entry clerk in the 80s, I can tell you it is not the same thing.
Louis did a nice video on the older keyboard/trackpad vs the newer ones, which I agree with. Modern keyboards actually aren't bad, but the trackpads are terrible. The entire design of having left and right click as just one big flat button causes so many issues.
Ideally, there would still be buttons to allow both types of control though.
An additional benefit over hard buttons is that applications can use it for additional feedback. E.g. OmniGraffle provides subtle haptic feedback via the trackpad when objects align, which I find extremely handy for quickly aligning objects.
It seems that most people but developers like and actually use number pads. I think I touched it ten times in 3 years, included checking that it worked.
"Last laptop ever made with excellent keyboard design? (Lenovo Thinkpad T520, fr 2011)" - no numpad.
The IBM Model M keyboard is just raised as the prototypical desktop keyboard design, and the numpad there is commented as "Separate number pad possible on large keyboard without disturbing main keyboard" - which is hard to argue against.
My model has a numeric keypad (but no End key, wtf) but its successor for 2017 got rid of the numpad.
AFAIK, the 2017 model is just less wide but same build.
Also, read the https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73419.0 Matias Ergo Pro review on some interesting design decision that went into that particular keyboard. (And yes, it's the one I use vertically and can only recommend doing the same.)
Interestingly enough, some gaming laptops are the ones that at least attempt to have a semi decent keyboard by using mechanical switches.
Anyways, that's what I do: travel with a compact wired keyboard. And that's my advice.
As for differentiating laptops, lots of other things seem like better characteristics to compare: freedom, privacy (mechanical webcam and mic disable switches), mic quality, speaker quality, RAM, battery life, GPU, SSD vs. HDD, weight, ...
One thing I hate is the bevelling on Macs: it actually hurts my fingers, but then again, I carry an external keyboard (and mouse) anyways, so this wouldn't stop me from buying a Mac.