Ask HN: My house might burn down in the next 24 hours. Suggestions?
E.g. Paperwork not to forget, items to document, things to expect when dealing with insurance, etc. I'm looking to avoid stupid mistakes from things I just didn't think of.
I'll forward the discussion along to the thousands of others in a Facebook group facing the same situation.
349 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 230 ms ] threadSpend one minute just experiencing being inside your house before you leave.
Leave a note with your contact information inside.
From Reddit: omeowner turned his sprinklers on before leaving to escape a Kansas wildfire. He came home to the only house saved.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turn...
Two story house, so hosing the roof is hard, but it's tile at least.
Northern California, so basements are pretty much non-existant.
Faucets left on is an interesting idea, but given the fire is leaving flat slabs in its wake, not sure how much it will help. Probably can't hurt though.
Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turn...
Basically take photos of everything, if just to remember what will be lost so you can list it for the insurance later.
Hmm, looks like it has to be explicitly written into the concept one way or another. For instance, flood insurance or earthquake insurance deliberately include floods or earthquakes (respectively) in the coverage language.
Most likely outcome is something like a single "dirty bomb" attack on a city 1500 miles downwind of where I work, unfortunately where a datacenter is located, resulting in me putting in a 36 hour work day trying to bring everything up at a disaster recovery datacenter 1000 miles away from both me and the attack, then on the commute home after 36 hours without sleep, I fall asleep driving and die in the resulting car accident, and my family won't get a penny because "clearly his death was a result of a N.K. act of war". Even worse not only might my family not get a penny WRT death but if anyone can sue anyone for anything, and my liability insurance is cancelled because of "act of war" then my family could end up quite destitute after a multi-car accident.
I wonder how many people had heart attacks watching the 9/11 news coverage a couple decades ago.
Or for any value of american response, a large fraction of the population would be very unhappy with the american response to a nuclear terrorism attack, regardless of the specific response, so my car parked downtown gets set on fire in the riots. That would suck if my car was temporarily uninsured because it was an act of war.
There's a lot of people paid a lot of money to deny insurance claims. See also, medical insurance.
Like this, for example: 'If you said "High-end Toaster, Stainless Steel, Blue glowing power button" ... you might get $35-50 instead [of much less]. We had to match all features that were listed.' I can imagine that someone who has been through an ordeal and just wants to get the claim processed might just say 'toaster', and end up with $7 instead of $50. Multiply that by everything in your house, and you're really coming up short.
http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/living-through-brush-fire...
The most important rule. IF YOU CAN SEE THE FIRE AT ALL, GO.
I'm an Aussie, from the country, we saw a lot of fires when I was growing up. It moves soich faster than you can imagine. In good condition ditiona it can go faster than you can drive.
Be careful, gods speed buddy.
Edit, as mentioned : if safe turn off gas.
2nd edit as techjuice said: legal documents and video, but this is the last thing. Documents won't help your family if you don't get out.
Look I'm not kidding about how fast fire can move, if you can see it, it's panic time.
Also, I emailed you, if you need to ask a question, drop me a email with your skype, I'll call and answer anything I can.
Edit: email I sent to op, for anyone else's info:
Okay, now I'm sorry if some things sound like I'm talking down to you. I'm just going to explain as I know it (also forgive typos I'm on a phone).
Driving through a fire- even on a road is not a plan. Ever. It starves the engine of oxygen and the vehicle will stall. Bad place for it. Only ever do it if it's an emergency.
Fire will move faster than you. Yes it takes days sometimes to move a few hundred feet, but Murphy is an arsehole and fire can move faster than you can drive, if the conditions are right.
Clothing; hot and cold, you don't know where you will be, pure cotton is better than synthetic, synth melt if your in fire, melting is worse than burn.(you have to take it out of the skin if it melts).
Water, lots.
First aid kits: if you have it bring it, alovera plants are an amazing treatment for burns, snap a small part off and run the juice over the burn. If there is a burn with a melt(eg clothing, plastic etc), and if it's safe, do not pour cold water on, it will set the melt, try and remove as much as possible (without touching the burn), before applying water.
I'll write more after this email. If you are forced to drive through fire, a)very. Fucking. Dangerous. B) all windows up, clothing(cotton) around mouth and nose. Be. Careful.(gods I hope you don't get into this)
Again. If you can see the fire, get. Out.
I don't have much more for during the fire, some people recommend sprinklers, watering roof etc, I believe that's an edge case. Yes if you have time, it may help, but there is no reason to risk your family for it.
Lives can be rebuilt, life cannot.
Actually, listen to local authorities, if you can see the fire then there's a good chance that it's too late. I'm sure you're aware of our newer "stay or go" procedures and that these decisions must often be taken 12-24 hours in advance. You don't want to be one of those tragic images of a burnt out car on the road while you were trying to evacuate.
If OP is asking on HN now then I think it's safe to say they don't have a well thought out evacuation plan and should leave ASAP if it's still safe to do so, just take the phone, wallet and a few clothes.
If you are unsure, I'll certainly agree, be. Fucking. Careful.
Otherwise, staying seems like a bad plan(cavet yes I know I know, but shit. If it's coming towards toh, go, if there is akm firebreak between you don't, I can't cover everything edge case)
I don't disagree with you, it's risky either way, and I only have my own personal experience to go from (which was dense bush to near the house), so I can't give op a definite plan. Not without knowing a lot more than I do, what I do know though, is leaving 24 hours before it arrives, is a lot safer than either of the previous options. Worst case scenario ario, a little fuel is wasted.
Edit: Just found a good facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/SCScanner/
1: https://www.facebook.com/groups/586292148428439/
2: https://www.facebook.com/groups/208796179660535/
(Unless the house has sprinklers, of course, or other fire suppression, obviously.)
Not that this helps, I just figure it is interesting and one less thing to worry about at a stressful time.
They usually don't require power or external water because those can be disrupted. I only know this because I've been involved in having a few systems installed and am not an expert.
The systems I'm familiar with were all commercial, so that may be why I'm unfamiliar with them being fed from the main. I had to deal with getting a couple of commercial buildings done. I am not completely certain, but I think both of those systems were completely independent of the municipal water supply. I'm 99% certain, at least.
Not that I'm aware of, which means I'm pretty sure not. It might be that at the house level, a single house isn't expected to draw so much water, while in a larger structure it's probably possible to overwhelm any feasible main that could be expected if a bunch of sprinklers go off. Even if the main can handle it, maybe there isn't a large enough connections to specific portions of the building from the main which causes water starvation. I imagine there's lots of insidious details when scaling to a large building which aren't immediately obvious.
I can see why there would be different systems and code requirements for residential construction. Come to think of it, whilst you could put the tank in an attic space - or use a bladder system, it would occupy a lot of space and I'm not sure residential construction would support the weight of the system.
I would also take a look at your policy and look for things that are not covered under traditional home owners. Things that come to mind are jewelry, art, and sometimes computers. Jewelry especially being high value and easy to evacuate with you.
Best of luck. Will be thinking of you all.
Also insure you have video and pictures of the now to include the inside and outside of your home, vehicles and land along with what the neighbors homes looked before you vacate the area.
Once you are sure you have everything, fill up on gas if possible and vacate the area and check the safety status of the area many miles away from the fire. To be safe go to a different county or city far away from the flames.
https://www.usps.com/manage/forward.htm
https://www.ups.com/us/en/service-alerts.page?id=alert1
That's UPS, not USPS. I wouldn't really trust either one of them, but if there's one I'd trust to do the obviously wrong thing, it's USPS.
Grab your homeowner's policy and any small personal items, like wedding rings.
It is cool if you can grab personal hygiene items, but those are relatively easily replaced. Try to take prescription medications. People sometimes wind up seriously ill a week or more after an evacuation event because they don't have their usual drugs and can't readily get more. In some cases, people die a few months later and relatives speculate that it is partly because they couldn't get a steady supply of their usual meds in the weeks afterwards.
Edit: After the fire, when you go back, take photos and call an insurance adjuster immediately. Do this before you try to fix anything or do any clean up. Cleaning up amounts to destroying evidence.
You can hire a public adjuster to file for you. Your broker, lawyer or a public adjuster are essentially the only people that can talk to the insurance company on your behalf.
(Edit: changed private adjuster to the correct term public adjuster)
Good call on the meds op.
If it were me I would pack synthetics in a bag for use after reaching safety, and wear long sleeve shirt, pants, and boots while escaping in a vehicle or worst case on foot.
There will for sure be people be swooping in like vultures after something like this to try to profit... Not all are bad, but I would just say, be careful.
(Source: I worked for an insurance company for over five years.)
Like, in 1681 when the "Insurance Office for Houses" was founded, or did you mean the maritime loans from the 4th century BC? Insurance and mutual aid societies have coexisted for literally millenia now, and if you think the latter are better, you're still free to join one (assuming your government doesn't force you into the former). But it's pretty nonsensical to blame capitalism if you don't like the way your insurance company currently operates.
If you're claiming < $10k and you can live with receiving less back, you may be better off doing it on your own. If you're claiming much more, a (proper, non-scammy) insurance agent is going to multiply your return by an unimaginable amount. The majority of people are getting back less than 50% of their potential insurance payout. It can be worth paying an insurance agent $2000 to get back $30k instead of $10k.
Source: not an insurance agent or anything related; just remembering a Reddit thread where multiple people shared the gap between what they assumed they were eligible for, vs. what an agent squeezed out for them. Normal people don't know how to describe their possessions in proper detail. A decent insurance agent will ensure that what is being replaced is of equivalent value, rather than a bunch of the cheapest generic products.
I suggest grabbing 1 suit & tie for any legal battles you might face with insurance companies.
And your shower curtain, food in the fridge, extension cords and cables, business cards, books that you got as gift but never read, and so on.
Most people have tens of thousands of dollars worth of $5 items in their home. But in the stress of losing your home in a fire, you will forget about all of them unless you have a good walk-through video of the entire place, opening each cupboard and looking under each bed.
Taking this off topic, but what point is a fire insurance if it can be "maxed out"?
In a small fire it makes sense to look at what exactly was damaged and evaluate the loss, but if a house and all the belongings need to be replaced, then you can calculate that value beforehand, and put that as a reasonable limit to be used for the insurance; I believe you'd agree that if you add a million dollar painting to a half-million dollar house then that would need an adjustment to the insurance policy if you want it to be covered.
I would recommend extra changes of underwear and socks, as those are the two bits that will get bad quickly (especially in a hot environment) and can make life pretty miserable with the resulting rashes/fungus.
Before you leave, if you have time, take pictures of your rooms, especially the expensive items (and their serial numbers) as this will make life much easier for insurance claims later on.
Given the price of most college and university books, a student could likely get very rich by simply buying used and having those burn if they looked new enough and could be documented as being in the home when the fire occurred.
My only point was if you're a college student you probably aren't going to have the same amount and quality of items that someone more established has.
If you're a college student/low income/young you are likely to have, say, 1-2 bath towels bought from the Dollar Store; if you are more established then you're likely to have a nicer towel set that costs closer to $50. Those small items ($5-$50 each) are going to add up to probably be just as much, if not more, as any one expensive item. Every small thing matters.
Don't forget to take lots of pictures before the fire too.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/10/apocalyptic-images-from-the-...
15 people have died and hundreds of structures have been destroyed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/california-fires.html
"At least 2,000 homes and commercial facilities have been destroyed in the fires, which are burning in Napa, Sonoma, Solano, Lake, Nevada, Butte, Calaveras, Shasta, and Yuba counties. A fire station in the Fountaingrove area of Santa Rosa was among the ravaged structures."
http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Wine-Country-fires-W...
[1]: I am presuming that the poster is north of the Bay Area; the smoke from the fires up there obscured Oakland from view of SF this morning, and the smell of the fire was all over. Eerie as heck, and I'm thankful to be on this side of the Bay. Co-workers reported accidentally leaving a window open and returning to a thin layer of ash covering stuff.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Sonoma-State-preside...
Anyway, this is not a joke and should be taken a bit seriously. A 2l "dry water" fire extinguisher costs about £20 a pop. They work on all fires that are likely to be encountered in the home (not rated for flamable metal). They are quite new but are certified in the EU and maybe beyond. The great thing about these is that they are safe for electrical fires as well as paper etc. So you can replace foam and CO2 with one extinguisher. I was encouraged to look into these by a member of the British Fire Brigade. Put one on each floor.
As well as that, get an escape ladder for upstairs - ~£30-40 and a blanket for the kitchen - ~£5
Fire needs three things to crack on: Something to burn, oxygen, source of ignition. It's not rocket science. No one needs to know about your little fixation about removing the towel that your sig. other leaves next to the gas hob etc.
Keep safe kids!
EDIT: Just seen a few posts whilst I was pontificating here from people who really have to deal with fire as a way of life.
You have a lot of good advice here - heed it!
There are many fine suggestions in the thread, so I'm going to amend, assuming you don't mind, your statement - just a little.
"It's time for everyone else to think about their fire plan."
At this point, OP should just follow the best solutions posted in the thread that the situation safely allows for. I'd add that they should monitor local radio as that's likely the source of a rapid evacuation notice.
-
Edited to make it clear that my comment is the pithy one, not the one to which I am responding.
I'm not from around there ...
As it appears to be a real and present danger, I'm tempted to write about how to respond in an emergency situation. I'd be more concerned with it derailing the subject of the thread, however.
I'd also add that if there is real risk, moving before the traffic increase may be a wise option. I'm not able to determine their risk and, for liability reasons, would not do so.
Aka Water Mist? https://www.thenbs.com/knowledge/fire-extinguisher-types-how...
These blankets are a bit dangerous on their own - depending on the material (both of the fire source and the blanket) they can essentially act as wicks. Source with pictures: http://www.nachrichten.at/oberoesterreich/Gefahr-bei-Fettbra...
Drivers licenses
Passports
Birth certificates
Social security cards (not technically ID but good to have)
Insurance documents (home, auto, health, life, anything else)
Property deeds or rental agreements for real estate, vehicles, any other major physical investments (own a boat? a tractor?)
Latest statements from bank accounts, credit cards, etc (digital copies will suffice - this is more about making sure you have account numbers, etc.)
Checkbooks
Paperwork from any corporate entities you may own or agreements such as stock option plans (digital may suffice here as well)
A digital copy (photos on phone if necessary) of your last year's tax documents
Photos of your last few pay stubs (if they're not already digital)
Any financial vehicles whose ownership depends on physical documents, such as bearer bonds
If you have documents relating to care of relatives (guardianship, power of attorney, DNR), bring those
If you have a will, make sure you have a copy (digital or otherwise).
Any other licensing documentation you might expect to want to refer to without having to ask the issuing body for a replacement (firearms licenses, medical licenses, marriage licenses, etc.)
Any documents relating to medical history or prescriptions
Contact info for everyone you know (this may already be digital, but some people do still keep Rolodexes or little black books)
Keys to any and all the things (shed, office, storage unit, safety deposit box, whatever)
You'll likely want to bring with you any laptops and external hard drives you own. If you're somewhat electronics savvy and have a desktop computer, consider extracting its drive too and taking that with you.
And of course, it's the things with sentimental value that are hardest to replace. You can always buy a new stereo system or replace a pair of jeans you left behind (even if you have to wear the jeans you did take until they fall apart and play music over a $20 pair of computer speakers while you save up to replace that tuner). You can never replace your photographs, your favorite stuffed animal from childhood, your grandmother's jewelry.
Good luck!
Panic will probably harm more people than fire or smoke. Anything to reduce stress is a good thing.
It is unrealistic, but it would be nice, to have everyone take some lessons in coping with emergencies. There are almost certainly local classes in emergency preparedness, and some varied levels associated with it.
So, in addition to the fine list above, I'd suggest that folks consider such courses in the near future - as well as taking refresher courses. My area has drills and training for citizen/volunteer search and rescue, more so than dealing with other disasters. They even offer free first aid training and classes for pay with some certifications as the result.
If anyone is interested, I'd check with your local fire department, EMTs, or police.