Virtue signaling heavily laden with Trump derangement syndrome.
Thinks Twitter failing to discipline President Trump because he violated the don't-threaten-people policy over North Korean missile launches is a grave double standard.
In all fairness, this is a reactionary "definition". It's not useful when looking at this behavior as an actual condition and discerning the causal elements.
There's a segment of the population that seems to amplify their own disgust with a celebrity's manners/message/actions/writing/etc, to the point that they see every facet of a personality as caustic. Bibi, Linus, Trump, Mencia, and probably countless others. It's only brought to light when an individual from this population happens to have a media pedestal, so the locus is usually some conservative.
Sometimes signalling your virtues is what you want to achieve. In the twitter example, Twitter decides that Trump hasn't technically broken a rule (debatable), so you signal that your virtues are more important than Twitters rules by leaving, a perfectly valid response.
Personally, I enjoyed the article but I felt bombarded by the suggested links as I was reading... the very slight , light blue highlighting should be enough for most readers to just gloss over, but I couldn't help myself with at least hovering over the group of words to see what is the site that's been linked. Made it difficult for me to take in the piece in it's entirety; I'll definitely be keeping this experience in mind next time I write.
Quit Facebook a long time ago despite being a huge fan and promoter (lol) in the early days (even used lastname@facebook.com seriously when email addresses launched) – it's not that difficult to do. Same with LinkedIn, love the occasional mild shock when people find out I'm not using either.
South Park is spot on as usual. “Who invited Mark Zuckerberg to town in the first place?”
"A facebook account was closed." Headline suggested to me someone resigning from the company. The latter is more interesting.
Many people have closed their facebook accounts, it's not a big deal, you just announce you're going to do it, get whatever contact details you don't have from connections then do it. Others never opened one. Life is fine without facebook, if you feel you want to close your account, do it. Footage at 11.
> Many people have throwed away their cigarette packs, it's not a big deal, you just announce you're going to do it, get that one last cig with a friend then do it. Others never started to smoke. Life is fine without smoking, if you feel you want to stop smoking, do it. Footage at 11.
> Many people have stopped gambling, it's not a big deal, you just announce you're going to do it, get whatever money's left on the table then do it. Others never started gambling. Life is fine without gambling, if you feel you want to get out of gambling, do it. Footage at 11.
I am always shockingly impressed at the lack of empathy and open-mindedness some people or group thereof are reliably able to show, here failing to recognise that this mind trick minefield can have devastating effects and act at the very least as a dramatic catalyst in loss-of-balance situations. The underlying, untold, insulting judgement is basically "damn this guy is weak/an attention seeking whore".
I found the article articulated quite well the issues he faced, his reasons (which extend beyond Facebook's carefully engineered attention seeking madness) and both of his strategy and tactics to get out of the hole he found himself in (which extend beyond Facebook and social networks). Writing about one's problems help a lot in internally processing them. Making a public statement helps in committing oneself to improvement, and help others in a similar predicament to relate and hopefully even proceed to action.
Well there are a couple of studies that track vitals and responses of people who get their cellphones taken away. So it's not like that's an empty implication.
What about taking away peoples ability to go out with other? Looking at “cellphones” as one collective thing is foolish, it’s a platform on which all of modern life takes place- you’re causing them serious harm by taking away their phone
CBC radio had an interesting interview with Franklin Foer this past weekend. He makes that argument during the interview and presumably in his book World Without Mind.
Yup and Facebook would like you to believe it's hard. Cigarette companies encouraged the "I can't quit..." Idea too. If you fail once, twice, eleven times. Try again, keep trying, quitting cigs is really worth the effort. Each failed attempt to quit cigs you learn something you can use to succeed in the future.
I don't care for Facebook, I doubt they cause you heart disease etc. Not sure how empathetic it is to those who've watched people they love die in a cancer ward to suggest a website is equivalent. But hey, make the case if you want to...
After all a couple of thousand bucks of Russian advertising on Facebook decided the election. Facebook admit it with no ulterior motive at all.
Think of it a small thing and it probably is. Maybe it will be as big as MySpace one day...
> If you fail once, twice, eleven times. Try again, keep trying, quitting cigs is really worth the effort. Each failed attempt to quit cigs you learn something you can use to succeed in the future.
Been there, done^Wdoing that. Fourth attempt in progress, each time I'm inching closer to be done with this crap for good.
> I don't care for Facebook, I doubt they cause you heart disease etc
Mind disease surely. By receiving constant stimuli and dopamine hits the mind is plasticly shaped to expect regular, immediate, worthless rewards and can't contend anymore with long term effort for bigger, worthwhile rewards, whether physical, social, intellectual or spiritual. IOW it makes you feel like shit for even trying to do anything that matters.
There are less drastic options. I'm still on facebook but unsubscribed from all feeds. As a result there's almost nothing but ads on my news feed so I'm not really tempted to go there anymore. I also don't post anything there. Still, I keep my account "just in case" and I do use messenger a lot though.
I have the feeling facebook is slowly dying, but I'm probably wrongly generalizing my own experience (is this called a "false consensus bias"?)
Its funny. Most people I know (~37 and under) only really use it for events and, at times, messenger. Its sort of a modern phonebook.
My sister (early 40s) and her peers are still using it on a regular basis, but the content could easily be on twitter or instagram.
The real demographic that is in love with it is my parents' generation, ~67+. They follow a lot of the '%city% then and now' and other nostalgic groups. Along with those, their feeds are filled with goofy videos that were going around a while ago.
I don't see Facebook going the way of myspace in the near future, but I do think they'll have to shift their focus a little if they want to draw us back in.
What I don't understand is why facebook isn't going head first into online dating. They already have a lot of information on everybody -- where a lot of us like to eat, locations we frequent, events we like, etc. For a lot of us the data would be slightly outdated, but I bet they could give some solid suggestions.
That's not a bad idea on the online dating. Though it would probably mean Facebook becoming much more transparent regarding what data they collect on you, at least to the unknowing majority.
Just from witnessing what people are looking at on their smartphones (in Spain), couple of years ago it was all facebook now it's all whatsapp - even older age groups (60+).
Only people I know ever mentioning facebook are (as mentioned in the other reply) middle-aged upwards.
Facebook do own Whatsapp, but if people are staying in Whatsapp then they're never engaging on the Facebook platform, and thus never generating ad revenue.
It's strictly a loss for Facebook, unless they can figure out how to monetize Whatsapp to the same extent as their main platform.
Which is reasonable, given that WhatsApps social graph is your phonebook and therefore portable. This is different with facebook or facebook messenger.
People like that cannot live without ranting and validating themselves externally. Please go back to facebook before you explode intto every other online platform.
An ambiguous title, came in expecting this to be about someone quitting his job at Facebook.
Which you absolutely should do if you work there. Facebook has an obligation to its shareholders to maximize its profits, which (possibly) means its strategy of monopolizing everyone's social identity is a valid one (though hopefully it could be mitigated through anti-monopoly laws, see the recent trend in the EU).
But no talented programmer has an obligation to help Facebook fulfill their strategy. If you care about freedom, don't help its opponents.
I haven't deleted mine yet, but it's been a long time. Often I think I'll regret doing so, lots of memories with my closed ones, but again I feel like none of that matters at the present. A tragic dilemma.:/
I can't think of any other social mediums for reaching out my people in the state of emergency or during such times.
Did this 5 years ago and never looked back. The fact that people write about it is probably showing how serious Facebook has become to them. Pretty sad and frivolous if your think about it.
My other social media (Twitter, Instagram) have notifications turned off, and are silently — and non instrusively — waiting for me when I decide to glance at them (usually once every 2-3 days). You end up forgetting about them and only remember when you're bored, it works wonders.
I believe we’ll look back in 10 years and realize that this generation (like most generations that are first to adopt something new) was ridiculously over attached to social media.
Well I really like the “in case you missed it” section. Brings up the important and funny stuff condensed.
If I hear something’s going on, I’ll open un the TT section and get some instant insights from it. They way I see it, Twitter is useless most of the time, it comes in handy only when some event is taking place.
Before Facebook, there was an entire genre of "friends reunited" stories, where people had lost contact with someone they used to be close to and recovered it after decades. That was back in the old pre-connection days where you could just lose someone's contact details, or they could move and if they didn't update you (or you were both moving) that was it forever.
Now things are very different. You never have to wonder what's happening to those people you knew at school, or wait for the reunion.
>Before Facebook, there was an entire genre of "friends reunited" stories, where people had lost contact with someone they used to be close to and recovered it after decades.
Those were more "once friends, then estranged/lost touch for decades on end, meet again, might or might not keep contact" stories than "friends re-united" stories.
Maybe we have extremely different feeds, but I mostly just see junk updates like: "walking the dogs", "just had breakfast", "just got home from work", "yay friday", "look we are at bar/party/gathering", "argh! mondays suck"
Then there are some random quiz/ad/lottery things. And random pictures of people's kids/pets.
I get much more human interaction out of IRC and Discord, places where you can actually talk and not just like and comment.
>See, if you're calling things like those "junk updates", I'd venture the problem is on your end.
There is just no value in these updates. Who cares you just ate a plate of casserole at home? What value is in griping over Mondays? I'm always globbed in with "millenials", but I feel anything but one. I see no value in any of the social media sites everyone seems to use. Maybe just because I don't know how to use them, but in the past I've tried in vein updating them, but I never have anything meaningful to say and I am definitely not going start posting pictures of the shit I eat.
>See, if you're calling things like those "junk updates", I'd venture the problem is on your end.
And I and the parent would venture the problem is in your end.
>How is commenting not "talking"? Unless you're restricting "talk" to solely mean "synchronous discussion" which is madness.
Talking implies empathy, actually listening to the other, back and forth, etc.
Merely commenting on some crappy post about ones vacations or food or pet or some political slogan and such (which is what it usually is) with at best 2-3 one sentence reply reactions is not exactly it, or it's a very low and basic form of it.
Yeah, because "human connections" can only be achieved on a web platform, with people you merely chat with on a casual BS basis for casual BS topics, and consider "friends" besides seldom meeting or having much in common with most of them.
> see all the relevant studies about the rise of loneliness and its impact
I've seen a bunch of those studies and in the absence of historical studies, there's nothing to show that it isn't just that people are more open about being lonely now compared with, say, even just 50 years ago.
Also there's nothing to show this is due to the rise in "social media" as opposed to changing dynamics in family structures or the general fuckheadery of politics etc.
> What we do have developed is a bizarro attachment to social media
There are people in there - it's not "bizarro" in the slightest.
The modern over-reliance on statistics and "expert opinions" for things that should be plenty obvious by mere observation is infantilizing and detrimental to thinking. It's like we only experience the world through ready-made conclusions.
Even so, we do have studies that have already tracked levels of various symptoms of decreased social interaction / cohesion / etc spanning over decades.
I'm honestly a little amazed at all the thought put in to quitting Facebook. It seems like such a big deal for people. I think it's very sad that we've gotten to this point.
Technically it is, but it is much more than that in reality. All my friends use Facebook to create parties and announce sudden gatherings. I don't use facebook to much more than to know when these things occur so I can participate but if I were to deactivate my account it would mean that I would probably miss out on some of these gatherings.
I'd rather just keep my account and post as little as possible in order to just recieve that information. Even if I personally do not like facebook, pretty much everyone else does. What can you do?
Some closer friends might, but several of these people doesn't have my phone number or email. I participate in several groups and people often write "does someone want to do something today?" etc.
To message every single one every time and ask would be too much of a task. Of course you could create a mailinglist but then you'd have to convince everyone to use that instead which I know would be impossible.
Are people that can't be bothered to mail you a letter really your friend? Facebook is an efficient form of communication that the vast majority of people use. I'd expect close friends to go out of their way to contact me but you have to accept that by not using Facebook you're going to miss out on things and creating an inconvenience for people. SMS and email aren't as efficient for arranging group events.
> by not using Facebook you're going to miss out on things
This is the beginning and the end of all the thought that should be put into this matter. Missing things is not the end of the world, since there is so much to do in life anyway.
More importantly, I think the benefits of fb are greatly exaggerated. In Europe at least, it seems the de facto standard are whatsapp groups of close friends, and that's where things get arranged. Even wedding invites are generally sent out over emails nowadays.
Finally, I never get the point of keeping in touch with a zillion people. I prefer not being in touch with high school friends. The endless comparing yourself to others and the 2 AM binge facebooking take a huge toll. Better to get in touch once in a while with old friends and have no idea what they've been up to. It's so much more of an enjoyable conversation. And after it's done, you have the lingering benefit of being able to retire to your cozy, slightly-more-solitudinous-than-normal existence.
> > by not using Facebook you're going to miss out on things
> This is the beginning and the end of all the thought that should be put into this matter. Missing things is not the end of the world, since there is so much to do in life anyway.
Missing out on things isn't the end of the world but what's the big deal of keeping up with what's going on? It's minimal effort to be signed up to Facebook so you can receive messages and event invites.
> More importantly, I think the benefits of fb are greatly exaggerated. In Europe at least, it seems the de facto standard are whatsapp groups of close friends, and that's where things get arranged. Even wedding invites are generally sent out over emails nowadays.
So if Facebook was the de facto standard for communication where you live you'd be OK with it? My point is just use what your friends are using to keep in touch and don't make a big deal about it. If Facebook, WhatsApp or whatever is having a large unhealthy influence on your life that's something you should fix about yourself.
2 billion monthly users, as of mid-2017 and according to Google. Maybe there's something to the idea that it is losing popularity? That doesn't seem like a vast majority and I seem to recall higher reported numbers in the past. I haven't paid too much attention, however.
"It's just a web site" is such an empty statement. A web site could be anything, from a meeting point to harass others until they kill themselves or a trove of all knowledge in the history of humanity.
Please change the title. yet-another-random-dude-closes-his-fb-account. He did not close his medium account though, so he can blog about his amazing journey clicking few buttons on a webform.
Plus, it seems like he deactivated it instead of deleting it. Which basically is the equivalent of logging out, from the user's perspective. So all the pomp and circumstance and the quoting of Trump and Snowden seems even more ridiculous to me. Like, have the balls to fucking do it properly.
Actually, if you read the post, I reference why I temporarily deactivated—and that I’ll delete. (I also reference what I’m doing with Medium, which I hardly ever used anyway.)
The question I have for you, is why the negativity? “Have the balls to fucking do it…” Seriously? Why do you feel the need to emasculate me over a personal choice to not use a social network?
Some people found the post useful; others didn’t. What I’m curious about is why you seem to take this so personally. You needn’t take it as an affront; and it certainly wasn’t intended that way.
The inevitable "negativity" should be seen as addressed to the HN community (for somehow upvoting this irrelevant submission to the front page) + the submitter (for the misleading clickbatish title).
It does not reflect on your motives, writing style, or whatever.
I did read the article, and the reason you gave was "I didn't want to be too rash". Which kind of serves my point. You wrote a 100,000 word article on quitting Facebook without even quitting it!
You're right though, and my apologies. I found your post grating and it rubbed me the wrong way. I really dislike this recent trend where everything is a Medium article. Oh your startup failed? Better post on Medium. Oh, you're firing people? Better Medium it. Oh, you're quitting social media? Better announce it everywhere. I know you recognise the irony, and mention it as such in your post. But I'm just one random man on the internet, and my vitriol is a reflection of my thoughts, not a reflection on you.
I deactivated as a sort of safeguard. I had transferred all of our company/project pages to my business partner at the time of deactivating. If something went wrong that prevented him from accessing those, I wanted to have a way to get back to them.
Like I said in the post, I’ll sign in one more time in the weeks ahead, and delete the account altogether.
As for the company/project pages, it’s not as though I intend to use them again. (I did delete a few outright.) That said, I also didn’t want to leave those urls/names open for someone else to grab—and spam from.
I understand your frustration with folks posting on Medium—and turning life/work events into a type of promotion. That said, while some do this purely as a marketing ploy, I think some just want to share their experiences.
Personally, I just like writing. I enjoy thinking through an argument/idea and seeing if my thoughts hold up. That’s part of why there were so many links in the post; they served as a way for me to force more research and find the gaps in my thinking—which, typically, there are many.
I try to be honest in my posts, and share the struggles I’ve experienced. To me, this adds a cost to them. For example, in this one: http://www.erickarjaluoto.com/blog/in-pursuit-of-mental-plas... I admit to past beliefs I’m deeply embarrassed by. I know some will probably think less of me for even acknowledging such biases/stupidity, but without such admissions, I’m not sure the writing is worth much.
I’m carrying on, which perhaps also reinforces your point. That said, I read your initial comment and just felt shitty. I didn’t write this post to sell anyone anything, or trick anybody. It was just something I felt I needed to write down somewhere, and I thought others might also find the reasoning useful.
Me neither - I resisted joining Facebook from day one. I never felt the need nor do I feel like I'm missing anything! At the end of the day its just a personal choice and I also don't feel the need to tell everyone about it (current post excepted of course! but this is literally the first time I have ever mentioned it in any kind of forum/post)
Alternatively: accept the value of Messenger and access it directly via https://www.messenger.com or the Messenger app.
I will never be able to understand these articles as ALL (with some exceptions) my friends are on facebook, and it is the only way I have to keep touch with all of them. This is a huge problem for people like me who travel a lot and have no other ways of getting in touch with someone.
> have no other ways of getting in touch with someone.
They don't have telephones or e-mail, or even home addresses?
Granted, it might not be as convenient, but people, including friends, do not cease to exist outside of facebook, or are facebook-friends friends of convenience only?
Telephone numbers and home addresses change all the time, and communicating the change of this information is a hard problem that requires effort that most people won't put forth. On the other hand, Facebook accounts just stay the same. It doesn't matter where they live or what Nth phone they happen to have, they've always got a Facebook account.
I don't know everyone else's use cases for Facebook, but in my case it's just a way to be able to keep in contact with people I'd otherwise be losing contact with.
> They don't have telephones or e-mail, or even home addresses?
1. they live in different countries
2. what am I going to do with an home address?
3. people change phone, email and home address all the time unfortunately. A Facebook account is surprisingly more reliable.
> Granted, it might not be as convenient, but people, including friends, do not cease to exist outside of facebook
I could in some case contact someone who still have them on Facebook, but sometimes I just don't have any friend in common with them.
> or are facebook-friends friends of convenience only?
No, I value my friends. I just met a lot of people traveling in my life. I still meet friends I haven't seen in decades when I travel every year. This would definitely not be possible without Facebook.
I'm not just arguing for the sake of arguing. Last month alone I met two of them. In Stockholm and realized I had a Swedish friend there, that I hadn't seen since 2009. We barely talked since then, we didn't really remember what friend we had in common (Facebook helped) but we sure had a good time back then so we were super happy to meet again. In Lisbon I met with a Portuguese friend I hadn't seen since 2009 as well. If it was not for Instagram she wouldn't even have noticed that I was there. We had dinner together and it was awesome. Just felt like old times.
I can't help but feel that if Facebook has such a huge negative influence on your life, the problem isn't Facebook but something deeper you need to resolve in yourself. If you're getting hopelessly addicted to Facebook or letting it make you feel bad, you're probably just going to replace it with something else until you fix the reason you let it impact you that way.
I use Facebook to keep up with friends and arrange events. It's a useful communication tool and I don't get caught up in it any more than that.
My point exactly. I can't for the life of me see how Facebook can be so addictive (based on the application itself).
If you're the type of person who HAS to know what other people are doing, then 'yes' Facebook will take over your life.
I'm always so busy (and can careless of the day-2-day of people) that I'm barely on the platform. And when I am, its probably for 5-10 mins every month (unless someone Messages me).
I'm thinking that closing your account may slowdown your addiction, but there are other apps, sites, avenues to be 'in the know'.
Maybe Facebook in this case means all social networking apps?
I felt the same way about cigarettes. I would occasionally smoke one, maybe once or twice a year, and couldn't imagine how anyone could get addicted to such an underwhelming stimulant. To want to smoke cigarettes more than a handful of times seemed like a symptom of unresolved life or mental issues.
Anything that has a quick action->dopamine-response loop can be addictive. Facebook is purposefully tightening that loop in its product.
I hear a lot about facebook but I almost never run into it though I feel like I am literally living inside internet. It amazes me how something I can literally not see any presence can have presumably such huge importance in the cyberworld. Google, I get it, twitter, I get it, facebook... nope. Looks like big inflated wind to me (or quite crafty salespersons).
I've tried deactivating facebook multiple times but always got back to it. I like facebook as a tool to keep in touch with people who are somewhat friends to periphery friends but I'm not interested in consuming the feed. So the solution that worked for me was to unfollow everyone with the help of the link which is at the end. Now my feed is empty and whenever I open facebook without thinking, I see nothing and get back to my normal real life very soon.
Good article,, but easy on the Trump stuff, it sounds like you believe too many lies. That aside, fake news can be found anywhere: Facebook, Twitter, CNN, NYT, Fox News, ... Why? Controversy = Money.
I agree with the part about social media having negative effects on our behaviour. I can recognize some of these effects in my self. I hope we can see studies about this in the future and maybe schools teaching the pros & cons of the internet in general.
Meh. The author goes on a rant against Trump, complaining about how views are being pushed upon him.
Yet he also goes to CNN, which was shown to be colluding with the Clinton campaign (and runs overwhelmingly slanted coverage. Something like 90% negative on Trump, hugely positive for Obama.)
He's picking his preferred poison. But he's not getting a balanced world-view, if that's what he's after.
The point I made about Trump wasn’t about views being pushed on me. It was that Twitter’s TOS was being changed to allow him to bypass those policies.
As for the CNN reference, you’re cherry-picking. I also note going to HN and Bless This Stuff. I provide these as honest examples of where I find myself going to waste time. I didn’t at any point say these provided a more “balanced world-view”.
105 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 36.3 ms ] threadThinks Twitter failing to discipline President Trump because he violated the don't-threaten-people policy over North Korean missile launches is a grave double standard.
Not a quality article.
I'm keen to understand what you mean by this, in context.
In all fairness, this is a reactionary "definition". It's not useful when looking at this behavior as an actual condition and discerning the causal elements.
There's a segment of the population that seems to amplify their own disgust with a celebrity's manners/message/actions/writing/etc, to the point that they see every facet of a personality as caustic. Bibi, Linus, Trump, Mencia, and probably countless others. It's only brought to light when an individual from this population happens to have a media pedestal, so the locus is usually some conservative.
This is getting very, very close to the fallacy fallacy.
South Park is spot on as usual. “Who invited Mark Zuckerberg to town in the first place?”
https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/12/south-park-vs-zuckerberg/
Many people have closed their facebook accounts, it's not a big deal, you just announce you're going to do it, get whatever contact details you don't have from connections then do it. Others never opened one. Life is fine without facebook, if you feel you want to close your account, do it. Footage at 11.
But the true article title is "I Quit Facebook—and You Should, Too", that is more obvious
> Many people have stopped gambling, it's not a big deal, you just announce you're going to do it, get whatever money's left on the table then do it. Others never started gambling. Life is fine without gambling, if you feel you want to get out of gambling, do it. Footage at 11.
I am always shockingly impressed at the lack of empathy and open-mindedness some people or group thereof are reliably able to show, here failing to recognise that this mind trick minefield can have devastating effects and act at the very least as a dramatic catalyst in loss-of-balance situations. The underlying, untold, insulting judgement is basically "damn this guy is weak/an attention seeking whore".
I found the article articulated quite well the issues he faced, his reasons (which extend beyond Facebook's carefully engineered attention seeking madness) and both of his strategy and tactics to get out of the hole he found himself in (which extend beyond Facebook and social networks). Writing about one's problems help a lot in internally processing them. Making a public statement helps in committing oneself to improvement, and help others in a similar predicament to relate and hopefully even proceed to action.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedition/the-sunday-edition-...
I don't care for Facebook, I doubt they cause you heart disease etc. Not sure how empathetic it is to those who've watched people they love die in a cancer ward to suggest a website is equivalent. But hey, make the case if you want to...
After all a couple of thousand bucks of Russian advertising on Facebook decided the election. Facebook admit it with no ulterior motive at all.
Think of it a small thing and it probably is. Maybe it will be as big as MySpace one day...
Been there, done^Wdoing that. Fourth attempt in progress, each time I'm inching closer to be done with this crap for good.
> I don't care for Facebook, I doubt they cause you heart disease etc
Mind disease surely. By receiving constant stimuli and dopamine hits the mind is plasticly shaped to expect regular, immediate, worthless rewards and can't contend anymore with long term effort for bigger, worthwhile rewards, whether physical, social, intellectual or spiritual. IOW it makes you feel like shit for even trying to do anything that matters.
Indeed. Quite disappointed with the article.
A: They'll tell you all about it.
I have the feeling facebook is slowly dying, but I'm probably wrongly generalizing my own experience (is this called a "false consensus bias"?)
My sister (early 40s) and her peers are still using it on a regular basis, but the content could easily be on twitter or instagram.
The real demographic that is in love with it is my parents' generation, ~67+. They follow a lot of the '%city% then and now' and other nostalgic groups. Along with those, their feeds are filled with goofy videos that were going around a while ago.
I don't see Facebook going the way of myspace in the near future, but I do think they'll have to shift their focus a little if they want to draw us back in.
What I don't understand is why facebook isn't going head first into online dating. They already have a lot of information on everybody -- where a lot of us like to eat, locations we frequent, events we like, etc. For a lot of us the data would be slightly outdated, but I bet they could give some solid suggestions.
My hope is whatever they are so fascinated with will eventually get old, and that phone will be put away, or perhaps left at home.
That's something I really don't see happening.
Only people I know ever mentioning facebook are (as mentioned in the other reply) middle-aged upwards.
They're not leaving Facebook, just switching from one Facebook property to another.
It's strictly a loss for Facebook, unless they can figure out how to monetize Whatsapp to the same extent as their main platform.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Which you absolutely should do if you work there. Facebook has an obligation to its shareholders to maximize its profits, which (possibly) means its strategy of monopolizing everyone's social identity is a valid one (though hopefully it could be mitigated through anti-monopoly laws, see the recent trend in the EU).
But no talented programmer has an obligation to help Facebook fulfill their strategy. If you care about freedom, don't help its opponents.
My other social media (Twitter, Instagram) have notifications turned off, and are silently — and non instrusively — waiting for me when I decide to glance at them (usually once every 2-3 days). You end up forgetting about them and only remember when you're bored, it works wonders.
I believe we’ll look back in 10 years and realize that this generation (like most generations that are first to adopt something new) was ridiculously over attached to social media.
If I hear something’s going on, I’ll open un the TT section and get some instant insights from it. They way I see it, Twitter is useless most of the time, it comes in handy only when some event is taking place.
Fixed that for you.
For one, Facebook isn’t a human connection, it’s really not. You’re not really friends with someone you haven’t spoken to in 5 years.
On the other hand, we’ve been attached to human connections since the begging of civilization. Not sold that would end in 10 years time.
Now things are very different. You never have to wonder what's happening to those people you knew at school, or wait for the reunion.
Those were more "once friends, then estranged/lost touch for decades on end, meet again, might or might not keep contact" stories than "friends re-united" stories.
It is, it really is.
> You’re not really friends with someone you haven’t spoken to in 5 years.
Well, yeah, that's a truism.
Maybe we have extremely different feeds, but I mostly just see junk updates like: "walking the dogs", "just had breakfast", "just got home from work", "yay friday", "look we are at bar/party/gathering", "argh! mondays suck"
Then there are some random quiz/ad/lottery things. And random pictures of people's kids/pets.
I get much more human interaction out of IRC and Discord, places where you can actually talk and not just like and comment.
See, if you're calling things like those "junk updates", I'd venture the problem is on your end.
> Then there are some random quiz/ad/lottery things.
Those I will agree do not count as human connections.
> places where you can actually talk and not just like and comment.
How is commenting not "talking"? Unless you're restricting "talk" to solely mean "synchronous discussion" which is madness.
There is just no value in these updates. Who cares you just ate a plate of casserole at home? What value is in griping over Mondays? I'm always globbed in with "millenials", but I feel anything but one. I see no value in any of the social media sites everyone seems to use. Maybe just because I don't know how to use them, but in the past I've tried in vein updating them, but I never have anything meaningful to say and I am definitely not going start posting pictures of the shit I eat.
Ok, you don't care but you are not the world. In my experience, people ask what was in it, what recipe you used, how you cooked it.
> What value is in griping over Mondays?
Again, in my experience, it leads to a sharing of experiences.
And I and the parent would venture the problem is in your end.
>How is commenting not "talking"? Unless you're restricting "talk" to solely mean "synchronous discussion" which is madness.
Talking implies empathy, actually listening to the other, back and forth, etc.
Merely commenting on some crappy post about ones vacations or food or pet or some political slogan and such (which is what it usually is) with at best 2-3 one sentence reply reactions is not exactly it, or it's a very low and basic form of it.
Who said that? Not me.
It's not that humans have developed some bizarro attachment to human connections in general.
If anything, human connections have suffered a lot in our age (see all the relevant studies about the rise of loneliness and its impact).
What we do have developed is a bizarro attachment to social media -- spending 1-3 hours per day checking them.
I've seen a bunch of those studies and in the absence of historical studies, there's nothing to show that it isn't just that people are more open about being lonely now compared with, say, even just 50 years ago.
Also there's nothing to show this is due to the rise in "social media" as opposed to changing dynamics in family structures or the general fuckheadery of politics etc.
> What we do have developed is a bizarro attachment to social media
There are people in there - it's not "bizarro" in the slightest.
Even so, we do have studies that have already tracked levels of various symptoms of decreased social interaction / cohesion / etc spanning over decades.
It's just a Web site.
I'd rather just keep my account and post as little as possible in order to just recieve that information. Even if I personally do not like facebook, pretty much everyone else does. What can you do?
To message every single one every time and ask would be too much of a task. Of course you could create a mailinglist but then you'd have to convince everyone to use that instead which I know would be impossible.
But to answer your question, yes.
This is the beginning and the end of all the thought that should be put into this matter. Missing things is not the end of the world, since there is so much to do in life anyway.
More importantly, I think the benefits of fb are greatly exaggerated. In Europe at least, it seems the de facto standard are whatsapp groups of close friends, and that's where things get arranged. Even wedding invites are generally sent out over emails nowadays.
Finally, I never get the point of keeping in touch with a zillion people. I prefer not being in touch with high school friends. The endless comparing yourself to others and the 2 AM binge facebooking take a huge toll. Better to get in touch once in a while with old friends and have no idea what they've been up to. It's so much more of an enjoyable conversation. And after it's done, you have the lingering benefit of being able to retire to your cozy, slightly-more-solitudinous-than-normal existence.
> This is the beginning and the end of all the thought that should be put into this matter. Missing things is not the end of the world, since there is so much to do in life anyway.
Missing out on things isn't the end of the world but what's the big deal of keeping up with what's going on? It's minimal effort to be signed up to Facebook so you can receive messages and event invites.
> More importantly, I think the benefits of fb are greatly exaggerated. In Europe at least, it seems the de facto standard are whatsapp groups of close friends, and that's where things get arranged. Even wedding invites are generally sent out over emails nowadays.
So if Facebook was the de facto standard for communication where you live you'd be OK with it? My point is just use what your friends are using to keep in touch and don't make a big deal about it. If Facebook, WhatsApp or whatever is having a large unhealthy influence on your life that's something you should fix about yourself.
...full of human connections. Which people tend to enjoy.
The question I have for you, is why the negativity? “Have the balls to fucking do it…” Seriously? Why do you feel the need to emasculate me over a personal choice to not use a social network?
Some people found the post useful; others didn’t. What I’m curious about is why you seem to take this so personally. You needn’t take it as an affront; and it certainly wasn’t intended that way.
It does not reflect on your motives, writing style, or whatever.
You're right though, and my apologies. I found your post grating and it rubbed me the wrong way. I really dislike this recent trend where everything is a Medium article. Oh your startup failed? Better post on Medium. Oh, you're firing people? Better Medium it. Oh, you're quitting social media? Better announce it everywhere. I know you recognise the irony, and mention it as such in your post. But I'm just one random man on the internet, and my vitriol is a reflection of my thoughts, not a reflection on you.
Like I said in the post, I’ll sign in one more time in the weeks ahead, and delete the account altogether.
As for the company/project pages, it’s not as though I intend to use them again. (I did delete a few outright.) That said, I also didn’t want to leave those urls/names open for someone else to grab—and spam from.
I understand your frustration with folks posting on Medium—and turning life/work events into a type of promotion. That said, while some do this purely as a marketing ploy, I think some just want to share their experiences.
Personally, I just like writing. I enjoy thinking through an argument/idea and seeing if my thoughts hold up. That’s part of why there were so many links in the post; they served as a way for me to force more research and find the gaps in my thinking—which, typically, there are many.
I try to be honest in my posts, and share the struggles I’ve experienced. To me, this adds a cost to them. For example, in this one: http://www.erickarjaluoto.com/blog/in-pursuit-of-mental-plas... I admit to past beliefs I’m deeply embarrassed by. I know some will probably think less of me for even acknowledging such biases/stupidity, but without such admissions, I’m not sure the writing is worth much.
I’m carrying on, which perhaps also reinforces your point. That said, I read your initial comment and just felt shitty. I didn’t write this post to sell anyone anything, or trick anybody. It was just something I felt I needed to write down somewhere, and I thought others might also find the reasoning useful.
Too bad he couldn't find a way to post his medium page on Facebook. He would have gotten more attention that way.
I will never be able to understand these articles as ALL (with some exceptions) my friends are on facebook, and it is the only way I have to keep touch with all of them. This is a huge problem for people like me who travel a lot and have no other ways of getting in touch with someone.
They don't have telephones or e-mail, or even home addresses?
Granted, it might not be as convenient, but people, including friends, do not cease to exist outside of facebook, or are facebook-friends friends of convenience only?
I don't know everyone else's use cases for Facebook, but in my case it's just a way to be able to keep in contact with people I'd otherwise be losing contact with.
1. they live in different countries
2. what am I going to do with an home address?
3. people change phone, email and home address all the time unfortunately. A Facebook account is surprisingly more reliable.
> Granted, it might not be as convenient, but people, including friends, do not cease to exist outside of facebook
I could in some case contact someone who still have them on Facebook, but sometimes I just don't have any friend in common with them.
> or are facebook-friends friends of convenience only?
No, I value my friends. I just met a lot of people traveling in my life. I still meet friends I haven't seen in decades when I travel every year. This would definitely not be possible without Facebook.
I'm not just arguing for the sake of arguing. Last month alone I met two of them. In Stockholm and realized I had a Swedish friend there, that I hadn't seen since 2009. We barely talked since then, we didn't really remember what friend we had in common (Facebook helped) but we sure had a good time back then so we were super happy to meet again. In Lisbon I met with a Portuguese friend I hadn't seen since 2009 as well. If it was not for Instagram she wouldn't even have noticed that I was there. We had dinner together and it was awesome. Just felt like old times.
I use Facebook to keep up with friends and arrange events. It's a useful communication tool and I don't get caught up in it any more than that.
If you're the type of person who HAS to know what other people are doing, then 'yes' Facebook will take over your life.
I'm always so busy (and can careless of the day-2-day of people) that I'm barely on the platform. And when I am, its probably for 5-10 mins every month (unless someone Messages me).
I'm thinking that closing your account may slowdown your addiction, but there are other apps, sites, avenues to be 'in the know'.
Maybe Facebook in this case means all social networking apps?
Anything that has a quick action->dopamine-response loop can be addictive. Facebook is purposefully tightening that loop in its product.
Where's the love, HN?
You can do more and more with Facebook Account it's just just scary to lose control over my profile.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-unfollow-everyone-on-Facebook...
I agree with the part about social media having negative effects on our behaviour. I can recognize some of these effects in my self. I hope we can see studies about this in the future and maybe schools teaching the pros & cons of the internet in general.
Yet he also goes to CNN, which was shown to be colluding with the Clinton campaign (and runs overwhelmingly slanted coverage. Something like 90% negative on Trump, hugely positive for Obama.)
He's picking his preferred poison. But he's not getting a balanced world-view, if that's what he's after.
As for the CNN reference, you’re cherry-picking. I also note going to HN and Bless This Stuff. I provide these as honest examples of where I find myself going to waste time. I didn’t at any point say these provided a more “balanced world-view”.