A while ago we rented a car for a trip to Vancouver island. We had a tent with us and wanted to use that but the rental company upgraded us to a huge SUV and we quickly realized that there was no point setting up the tent since we could comfortably sleep in the back. So we ended up using the tent only once.
I used to sleep in my 1995 Honda Del Sol by pulling the passenger seat all the way forward and fully reclined then resting with my head on the dashboard and my feet going out the back window! Only worked on clear nights, though...
I've slept in vans and cars and tents and a big class A motorhome with a slide out living room and now sleep in a travel trailer towed by a big diesel pickup. But, this is bonkers.
While I'd love to improve my fuel efficiency, this takes it a little too far in the direction from "most of the comforts of home" to "no comforts of home". There has been a real move toward fuel efficiency in some categories of motorhome in recent years. Several really nice models are available that are built on the Sprinter chassis, which gets 14-22 MPG if you're not in a hurry. There's class B (van-like), class C (cutaway van chassis with a boxy house and cabover), and even a few class A (has a bus-like body that covers the whole chassis and usually provides the most living space) models. And, I've started looking at replacing my big diesel V8 F250 with a newish Ford EcoBoost 3.5 liter V6 F150; similar towing capacity, much better fuel efficiency (though towing a whole house will drop the efficiency by a lot).
What I'm trying to say is, while I love Tesla cars and a mobile lifestyle, this is goofy. A tent on the ground would be more comfortable, assuming you're camping in decent weather. A hybrid minivan or pickup with a topper would be smarter if you wanted to do minor conversions on a fuel-efficient vehicle to make it camp-friendly. I mean, I guess if you already have the Tesla and want to sleep in it every now and then, that's not so crazy (though I couldn't, as I'm 6' and can't sleep comfortably on my side).
Did you read the article? You can lay the seats flat and sleep two 6'+ individuals side by side. You also get a panoramic view of the night sky, and a climate-controlled, HEPA filtration system.
This seems like an incredible way to go camping to me. I've gone camping for years, and this would be great to be able to experience the star-filled night sky, in a comfortable climate controlled environment, without having to pitch a tent.
Things like this are what make a car appealing to me. Lots of cars drive well and are inexpensive to operate. There are only a few that seem to augment one's life. Designers will say It's the little things that people notice and I 100% agree. While Tesla obviously didn't design "Camper Mode" into the Model S, it seems like the sort of company that would embrace it.
Then you are no longer Telsa-hacking but rather just sleeping in a car with a sunroof. The climate control is the crux of differentiating Camper Mode from Cant Afford Motel mode.
This was always one of my dreams when panoramic sunroofs were unheard of -- buy an E34 chassis BMW 5-series wagon with the dual sunroof option, sleep in the back with the "middle" roof open for a nice view of the night sky!
That sounds more like glamping than camping. I go camping and backpacking to get away from technology. I can get a far better view of the stars by sleeping in the open in the desert in summer.
"You can lay the seats flat and sleep two 6'+ individuals side by side."
I did read the article. It said this: "However, the flat bed on the compact Model 3 is long enough to accommodate only someone who is about 5 1/2 feet long, stretched out."
This article was written in 2016. Other articles have said that the Model 3 design team made modifications to ensure it was compatible with "Camper Mode."
Last year I wrote about a subculture of Tesla drivers who go camping in the back of their cars. It sounds crazy at first, but the car’s massive battery can maintain perfectly controlled climate all night while only losing about 7 percent of the car’s range. With the glass canopy overhead and the view of the stars, it’s a great way to enjoy national parks without the bother of a campsite. I tried it myself and loved it.
With the new Model 3, there’s great news for those Tesla campers and others who like to haul long cargo. The seats of the Model 3 fold completely flat, and with the front seats in their most forward position, the back bed measures an impressive 6 feet 9 inches long (206 cm). This is a car that’s dying to be slept in.
"I don't suppose you tow your travel trailer around everywhere with you?"
No, but a motorhome was my only motorized vehicle for about six years. Spent plenty of nights camped on city streets.
A trailer is certainly less amenable to that sort of camping...but, is stealth camping really what these folks have in mind? In the most noticed car on the road, that doesn't have an enclosed sleeping area?
I'm all about stealth camping, but a Tesla isn't the right vehicle for it. Again, if you have a Tesla and want to sleep in it, more power to you. It's just a silly thing to make a trend out of.
If living in something the size of a large car could be made comfortable, easy and inconspicuous, I suspect the market would be large with your prototypical cash poor/experience rich millennials who might (aspire to) use it as an alternative to renting for a significant fraction of the year.
A car is excessive and unnecessary- but a mini camper/"millennial convertable" is aspirational. True freedom. Nothing will stop you taking that trip up north/down south/out west/back east when accommodation is always free.
I can see the ads now. And they're coming straight from the mouths of my friends.
This article makes me think of all the people in The Mountaineers who sleep in their cars at trailheads for glacier climbs. There might be an untapped market for peak baggers here.
Absolutely- the air con is essential. Good air quality and a comfortable temperature is hard to get any other way. So the car would need to be at least a hybrid.
To be fair, if you're trying to camp somewhere that isn't 60-70 degrees at night, you need to leave most cars on (or wake up and run the AC/heat briefly) to make a lot of locations comfortable, since cars don't retain heat very well. This isn't really feasible in a gasoline car (it's loud and wasteful) and would run the batteries of many electric cars a little too low for comfort. In my admittedly limited experience, the Tesla has much better idle efficiency than many competitors.
If you leave the back open and climate control running with a gas engine vehicle you're a)going to run out of gas overnight and b) will get exhaust fumes where you're sleeping.
It might be a small thing, but it shows that electrical cars are different and offer many advantages. Here it is operating the cars air conditioning over night while parking.
I slept in the trunk of my Chevy Impala a few times, once on a car trip from Texas to Florida while someone else was driving.
The rear seats fold down, so there's actually plenty of room. I'm 6 foot 1 inch tall and was about 270 pounds at the time, and I would not have been able to sleep comfortably in the seat due to slouching over.
Probably only appropriate for favorable weather.
Edit: Incidentally, cars automatically turning off is a HUGE problem for K9 police units.
>Overheating in cars is the leading cause of traumatic death for K9 units.
Sounds like handler misconduct to me, but hey -- it's easier to blame the vehicle!
Too bad civillians don't have the same luxury of blaming the equipment.[0][1][2]
It's ridiculous -- and eye-opening -- that k9 units get that kind of treatment. I was always under the misconception (which is probably purposely portrayed in the media) that the dogs were treated as partners -- not tools. I guess that was too hopeful on my part.
I wonder what would happen if some good Samaritan busted out the window of a cop car to save the life of the K9 dog inside. I suspect that this would be treated as less than the heroic gesture that it is when saving a civilian dog.
There are subtle hints online that Tesla may help Bollinger manufacture their electric SUV, the B1. It certainly looks like it would make for a better camper. I would really prefer if Tesla would just buy Bollinger outright and bring a vehicle like this to a broader audience. Heres their website: http://bollingermotors.com/
This is actually pretty neat, since sleeping on the floor even with padding is pretty awful for me.
I really hope an electric car as practical as the now discontinued Honda Element makes a comeback [1]. From what I read, you could even wash that thing down with a hose if you wanted to! I would buy something like that in a heartbeat.
OTOH, even modern Jeeps are fine to wash out with a hose or leave in the rain. It seems weird, but there is even a drain plug under the carpet on each side. The only two components to watch out for are the clockspring in the steering wheel (which lasts about 50 miles on a Wrangler anyway) as well as whatever radio head unit came with the trim. Nothing else seems to care. It's awesome.
I've inadvertently driven mine with the top off in a persistent downpour, where I learned that (a) windshield wipers don't work on the inside, (b) wearing glasses presents an annoying set of challenges, (c) expect an especially wet left butt cheek from the tire flinging water past the fender at speed, and (d) other drivers will take pictures at traffic lights. Fun, though. Radio still worked and everything. Just drained it when I got home and let it dry in the sun. I bet your Element would do better than you think.
There's also a pop-top conversion[0] available for the Element, which takes advantage of its very large rear sunroof (which cannot be opened while moving, btw).
I own an Element and I've been flirting with this for years. I've slept in the Element a few times with my wife, but I'm 6'3" and everything gets a bit tight.
This has to be one of the worst websites I've seen in the past decade. I've seen these vehicles on the road but never "gotten" the pop up part. I tried to view a photo gallery (it doesn't work) and the only photos they have on the main page don't show what it looks like inside with the tent up. Amazing. I'm curious how usable the space is, and they don't help me figure it out.
There’s a gallery you have to go hunt for in the menus called “Interior”. Select the vehicle, select “interior” and...you’ll be met with a page that has no photos.
Extrapolating from our Westfalia, the pop top will give you about two feet where you stand straight up. I assume sleeping space up there, too. But who would buy from a company that relies on strangers to guess what it might be like inside, and then tell you?
The Honda Element had some great features - it was a perfect "surf and explore" car.
Only thing that kept me from getting one was the fact that the front doors have to be opened for the rear doors to open. Kind of a pain, especially when you're picking someone up in the rain (which happens surprisingly often in Florida!)
Always wanted one -- unfortunately you couldn't get a supercharged m/t. or a supercharged AWD m/t or something. First time I sat in the back seat in one, I was blown away. Could slide the seat back and not even touch the front seats with my legs extended, but still tons of cargo room.
I'm still awaiting for the update myself or to hear from others on what kind of battery drain to expect from 12 hours of use. Super excited for this feature though.
Perhaps we need a Model W the Westfalia edition :-).
Car camping has a long and rich history, the '71 Chevy Impala was used by travelling salesmen because the bench seat in the back would fold flat into a decent bed.
It is interesting that with a small number of 'tweaks' to where things were laid out you could really improve the experience in the Model S.
The rise in popularity (and price) of Westafalias recently has been interesting to watch! Huge demand (even on $100k pre-upgraded versions), which seems to be driven by younger folks.
I feel like the van-life idea is growing, there are many videos of "here's me converting a moving van to a house on wheels!". I guess the lack of traditional show-up-at-the-office-everyday jobs (if a college grad can still even get one of those these days) and easier access to high-speed internet mean people are willing to try the nomad lifestyle. Of course all the youtubers say "follow me on Instagram" so they can tell companies that they're "influencers", would they like a mention for some money?, which to me feels like an unsustainable line of work...
One of the things I've noticed about the high cost of housing in this round of expansion of the Bay Area has been more campers on the curb acting as houses. I now see a number of places where people are clearly living out of an RV in lieu of permanent housing.
I attribute some of that to the cost of housing and some to the relative ease of connectivity with a cell phone. There isn't any hard and fast not to live in such a space if you don't mind it and have a PO box and a cell phone.
Man, I'd love to get a Model S. If only they weren't so expensive... Anyone have opinions on the ideal model year and trim to target for max bang-for-buck? From a cursory look, I'm thinking something like an 85D (not P85D). Probably either 2014, for first gen autopilot, or a 2013 without. (I've heard a lot of stories about quality control issues with early cars, which hopefully were ironed out somewhat by 2013.)
I drive a volvo XC70 (the outdorsy station wagon) and its incredible for sleeping in. I've probably logged 8ish days in the past year or so. The best benefit is that most campgrounds in places like Yosemite are limited in capacity and you can't really plop a tent down anywhere, but the parks service and land management folks have not seemed to be bothered by my parking wherever I want and sleeping for the night. I highly recommend it to avid campers.
It's a real pity that sleeping in your car is illegal in most cities. Otherwise, with free parking and high rent, I suppose that cars would become the pods everyone has been dreaming of.
This would be another advantage to my plan. Maybe free parking would become a thing of the past and you could perhaps even get rid of all the parking lots and stop having a concrete death valley in front of every building in America.
> It's a real pity that sleeping in your car is illegal in most cities.
Is that the case? I know it’s legal in NYC (much to the consternation of yuppies in the upper west side). In Oakland people sleep in cars and rvs parked on major roads, same in San Francisco.
I don’t think I’ve ever dreamt of living in 60 cubic feet of space. Maybe instead we should, I don’t know, create more places where people want to be, rather than trying to cram everyone in the world into NYC and the Bay Area.
One of the biggest resources in the US is cheap abundant land. Why the hell are we concentrating all the talent in a few square miles of it?
Hate to sound like the nerd... but segways are freaking fantastic.
If you haven't ridden one, go on a "segway" tour of your city. Super fun, and you can see just how simple and mobile you are. Completely replaces most small bus hops.
Not denying what you wrote, but a folding bike is cheaper, probably more portable (i.e. you can take it on a plane with you) and it doesn't need recharging.
Is that really the number one priority for talented people? Walking?
Besides, we have a dozen modes of transportation already available: cars, buses, motorcycles, segways, bicycles, subways, trams, taxis, powered walkways, rollerblades, skateboards, hover boards, ATVs, skis, sleds, horses, etc. How exactly is walking the panacea of transportation? So much so that people would be willing to live in cars?
> Is that really the number one priority for talented people? Walking?
Just walking? Maybe not. But fast commutes to work, easy access to restaurants, easy access to culture, lots of things to do nearby, large dating pools? Most certainly.
I'm reading Haidt's "Happiness Hypothesis" right now, and in one section he identifies life circumstances which people never adjust to (i.e. excluded from the Hedonistic treadmill effect).
A long commute is something he identifies as always a negative. Humans don't seem to adjust to a long commute -- it will always negatively impact the typical person's outlook/affect/happiness.
Congregating close to other talented people? Yes, it appears to be very very highly valued and the resulting cross-pollination of ideas a core reason that dense areas have very high creative output.
Are you willing to have millions of people move into your city and sleep in cars in the name of having some of the more talented ones nearby? At that point, why even bother with cars? Coffin hotels are a thing, let's just cover SF in those. We could charge $3-5k/month per coffin!
Not at all, I'm personally a fan of very dense mixed-use plans when it comes to urban development styles. But I was just answering your question about why walking is such a priority for talented people and why "walkability scores" are a thing. Clearly if we're talking about walking most places then everyone having a large car doesn't make much sense in the first place, nevermind living in it. That's just weird Telsa fetish stuff.
I grew up in suburbs and consider them soul sucking hellscapes for robots who've learned to feel despair ... so that probably colors my view of basing cities around them by having people drive all the time.
I'd say it's pretty high on everyone's list and we have almost no good places to live in the US, so only top talent and homeless people can live in them.
There's a world of difference between walking 15 minutes and driving 15 minutes, and overall having people walk usually makes for a better overall urban environment.
You wouldn't want to walk along a highway, but because everyone drives in major US cities, even downtown has highway-sized roads.
I'm not super for sleeping in cars, but I already pay a space tax for my living quarters to have walkability (even if I end up taking the train)
Fair's fair, I think that skis and horses might rank above walking for most people, but most places where that is possible don't have the amenities of major cities.
I got a boosted board at this beginning of this summer, and I've really enjoyed using it to get around. It's mostly for my commute, but I've definitely taken it out in the evenings and stuff too— indeed, my main complaint is that I haven't yet gotten proper lights for it, so I can't ride after dark.
Or just build more houses where people want to live? They want to be there because lots of other talented people are there, with all the opportunities of culture, education, and jobs that brings. And also they want to be able to get around easily, not rely on their car.
- living outside of a city is actually a luxury. Cheap land, but a long distance to culture and services. Most people cannot afford a car, for example.
- rural living is more detrimental to the environment
So people who can't afford a car should give up whatever housing they have outside a city and buy a Tesla, then move into the city and live in the car?
Like, I guess I don't understand how nobody is seeing the dystopian future where you have to live in a goddamn car because you can't afford proper shelter. I know it's a thing elsewhere in the world, but people are try to get out of that, not into it.
It's actually a relative luxury to live in a car. Living in a car is more expensive than, say, living on a cot in a group shelter.
If we were most concerned about maximizing efficiency, we'd all be living in dense urban environments, using shared public transportation, etc. Most people would sleep in something similar to a Capsule Hotel.
Right. I am saying that it seems not desirable to live in Capsule hotels, cars, shared shelters. We can do better than that. Why move in that direction?
1. Could view it as a cultural thing. For example, some cultures might embrace minimal personal space. And, the media keeps talking about the "tiny house movement."
2. Everything is relative. I personally opted to buy a smaller house than I could afford, and I generally try to live minimally.
3. In general, it's better for the collective good (less waste) to move in that direction. That said, technological advance might some day allow every human to live in a McMansion.
I grew up in a neighborhood with large houses and "horse lots" and I always dreamed of living in the apartment block in the next neighborhood over, because I had no one to play with, and the "poor kids" over there were always together.
The tiny house movement is because people can't afford regular houses so they build glorified sheds on whatever scraps of land they can afford. Cities are breeding grounds for disease primarily because of the lack of personal space.
See I can totally get behind what you are saying. Or at least most of it. Tiny houses require a lot of external infrastructure to make work. Again, a few people camping out in Golden Gate park is not an issue. Thousands would be.
Also remember that there isn’t a big difference between tiny houses and trailers. Imagine turning SF into a trailer park.
But there is a huge difference between a minimally viable shelter (electricity, plumbing, standing room, privacy) and a car or a capsule. Where exactly do you have sex? Vomit when sick? Keep a pet gold fish? Cook? Poop? All of that is possible in 400 sqft apartment and not possible in a car. So it’s not quite relative.
The long term effect is that it allows for landlords who own parking spaces to charge what is currently charged for a small apartment, charge for small apartments what is currently changed for large ones, and so on. SF already has a housing problem. This would invite more people in without actually adding proper housing. How many hundreds of thousands or millions of people would do it? Have you thought about the plumbing issues associated with adding people without bathrooms? One person roughing it in a car and using public facilities is ok. Several thousand is an annoyance. Snowball that to few hundred thousand and you have a shit river.
Less than 2% of the US's population works in agriculture. Nearly 20% live in rural areas. We are no where close to the point where we need to worry about having too few people living in rural areas to be able to grow food.
Those farmers don't need any network around them then? Just farms and more farms? Who does all the non-farming stuff in your vision of rural areas? Noone needs a plumber or a dentist or a schoolteacher?
Hey, I’m pretty darn pro-density, but “most people cannot afford a car” is just a false statistical statement about the US adult population, unless you add some MAJOR caveats.
My startup is called Druber, the elevator pitch is: like Uber for people who sleep in their cars. Use it to find and hire a driver to drive slowly while you sleep, so you don't break the law.
Or I guess the driver can just sit in thr parked car and watch for authorities, if they knock, the driver can claim s/he's just about to depart, and their friend (you) just went out like a light.
Sleeping in a car for a long period of time increases the risk of leg edema. In most vehicles you can't lay flat and so the blood pools in your lower legs. Not good for veins, especially for older people.
Kind of off topic: I went on a long trip with my tesla last week. While researching for a matrices that fits in the back of my Model S I found dreamcase [0]. This + camping mode made the nights in my car pretty comfy. Will definitely plan a longer holiday trip now.
if this becomes a bigger thing in the future, would be interesting to see a 'climate control out port' that you could use to connect to a tent/camper/tiny-house via ducting. It could close the car's internal a/c vents and direct out to the port.
Are these generally individually metered and charged for supply? If not, I can't see this lasting long once people start pulling 80+ kWh per night out of them.
There’s almost no chance you’ll pull 80+ kWh from a campsite jack in a night. Typically you’ll be provided 15amp @ 110v at best. That’s only ~2kWh.
Also, most camp sites charge ~$10/day for electricity. Depending on the electric rates, they likely won’t lose a dime covering your usage at that price.
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[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 197 ms ] thread[1] - https://youtu.be/33AP0JnXSOA?t=253
No SUV required.
While I'd love to improve my fuel efficiency, this takes it a little too far in the direction from "most of the comforts of home" to "no comforts of home". There has been a real move toward fuel efficiency in some categories of motorhome in recent years. Several really nice models are available that are built on the Sprinter chassis, which gets 14-22 MPG if you're not in a hurry. There's class B (van-like), class C (cutaway van chassis with a boxy house and cabover), and even a few class A (has a bus-like body that covers the whole chassis and usually provides the most living space) models. And, I've started looking at replacing my big diesel V8 F250 with a newish Ford EcoBoost 3.5 liter V6 F150; similar towing capacity, much better fuel efficiency (though towing a whole house will drop the efficiency by a lot).
What I'm trying to say is, while I love Tesla cars and a mobile lifestyle, this is goofy. A tent on the ground would be more comfortable, assuming you're camping in decent weather. A hybrid minivan or pickup with a topper would be smarter if you wanted to do minor conversions on a fuel-efficient vehicle to make it camp-friendly. I mean, I guess if you already have the Tesla and want to sleep in it every now and then, that's not so crazy (though I couldn't, as I'm 6' and can't sleep comfortably on my side).
This seems like an incredible way to go camping to me. I've gone camping for years, and this would be great to be able to experience the star-filled night sky, in a comfortable climate controlled environment, without having to pitch a tent.
...with the dash lights on.
That's a problem for seeing anything more than a faint smudge of the Milky Way. Andromeda is right out.
(Sure, you don't want to do that if it's raining. But if it's raining, you weren't going to see Andromeda anyway...)
https://drivetribe.com/p/touring-double-sunroof-E2FIZEvbQuiJ...
I did read the article. It said this: "However, the flat bed on the compact Model 3 is long enough to accommodate only someone who is about 5 1/2 feet long, stretched out."
Ready for Camper Mode
Last year I wrote about a subculture of Tesla drivers who go camping in the back of their cars. It sounds crazy at first, but the car’s massive battery can maintain perfectly controlled climate all night while only losing about 7 percent of the car’s range. With the glass canopy overhead and the view of the stars, it’s a great way to enjoy national parks without the bother of a campsite. I tried it myself and loved it.
With the new Model 3, there’s great news for those Tesla campers and others who like to haul long cargo. The seats of the Model 3 fold completely flat, and with the front seats in their most forward position, the back bed measures an impressive 6 feet 9 inches long (206 cm). This is a car that’s dying to be slept in.
You also can do this on a whim at any time. I don't suppose you tow your travel trailer around everywhere with you?
Besides, there's no saying you can't throw a hammock or tent in the tesla and use that when it truly would be preferable.
No, but a motorhome was my only motorized vehicle for about six years. Spent plenty of nights camped on city streets.
A trailer is certainly less amenable to that sort of camping...but, is stealth camping really what these folks have in mind? In the most noticed car on the road, that doesn't have an enclosed sleeping area?
I'm all about stealth camping, but a Tesla isn't the right vehicle for it. Again, if you have a Tesla and want to sleep in it, more power to you. It's just a silly thing to make a trend out of.
It has that classic characteristic of a good start up market- people want the solution so badly, they badly hack their own.
Do you mean the people, or the physical things?
If living in something the size of a large car could be made comfortable, easy and inconspicuous, I suspect the market would be large with your prototypical cash poor/experience rich millennials who might (aspire to) use it as an alternative to renting for a significant fraction of the year.
A car is excessive and unnecessary- but a mini camper/"millennial convertable" is aspirational. True freedom. Nothing will stop you taking that trip up north/down south/out west/back east when accommodation is always free.
I can see the ads now. And they're coming straight from the mouths of my friends.
BUILD MORE GOD DAMN HOUSING.
Others seem to agree: https://www.treehugger.com/cars/yes-elon-musk-planning-build...
Many RVs don't even have air conditioning when the engine is not running.
The Tesla Model S also has non-exclusive advantages such as being large enough to lie down comfortably and being a good regular car.
If you are looking for a good camper that you can also use as an everyday car, the entire categories of MPV (larger) and LAV (smaller) are for you.
The rear seats fold down, so there's actually plenty of room. I'm 6 foot 1 inch tall and was about 270 pounds at the time, and I would not have been able to sleep comfortably in the seat due to slouching over.
Probably only appropriate for favorable weather.
Edit: Incidentally, cars automatically turning off is a HUGE problem for K9 police units.
Overheating in cars is the leading cause of traumatic death for K9 units.
Police cars are heavily modified, but they are still based on consumer vehicle architecture, much like a shared code base.
Sounds like handler misconduct to me, but hey -- it's easier to blame the vehicle!
Too bad civillians don't have the same luxury of blaming the equipment.[0][1][2]
It's ridiculous -- and eye-opening -- that k9 units get that kind of treatment. I was always under the misconception (which is probably purposely portrayed in the media) that the dogs were treated as partners -- not tools. I guess that was too hopeful on my part.
[0]: https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/10/16/owners-cha...
[1]: http://morgancountycitizen.com/2017/10/03/dog-left-in-car-di...
[2]: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-woman-arrested-d...
I really hope an electric car as practical as the now discontinued Honda Element makes a comeback [1]. From what I read, you could even wash that thing down with a hose if you wanted to! I would buy something like that in a heartbeat.
[1] https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8c/60/8f/8c608f586b1e0d1b1367ec1b7...
(I am an Element owner - I have not hosed out my Element however)
I've inadvertently driven mine with the top off in a persistent downpour, where I learned that (a) windshield wipers don't work on the inside, (b) wearing glasses presents an annoying set of challenges, (c) expect an especially wet left butt cheek from the tire flinging water past the fender at speed, and (d) other drivers will take pictures at traffic lights. Fun, though. Radio still worked and everything. Just drained it when I got home and let it dry in the sun. I bet your Element would do better than you think.
Also mud and deep water. But that's another story. :-)
I own an Element and I've been flirting with this for years. I've slept in the Element a few times with my wife, but I'm 6'3" and everything gets a bit tight.
[0] http://www.ursaminorvehicles.com/campers/element-camper.html
Extrapolating from our Westfalia, the pop top will give you about two feet where you stand straight up. I assume sleeping space up there, too. But who would buy from a company that relies on strangers to guess what it might be like inside, and then tell you?
Only thing that kept me from getting one was the fact that the front doors have to be opened for the rear doors to open. Kind of a pain, especially when you're picking someone up in the rain (which happens surprisingly often in Florida!)
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-tesla-camper-mode/im...
https://electrek.co/2017/10/12/tesla-new-software-update-con...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfLwj-rOG8
Car camping has a long and rich history, the '71 Chevy Impala was used by travelling salesmen because the bench seat in the back would fold flat into a decent bed.
It is interesting that with a small number of 'tweaks' to where things were laid out you could really improve the experience in the Model S.
I attribute some of that to the cost of housing and some to the relative ease of connectivity with a cell phone. There isn't any hard and fast not to live in such a space if you don't mind it and have a PO box and a cell phone.
http://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/
lol you fucking idiots.
Is that the case? I know it’s legal in NYC (much to the consternation of yuppies in the upper west side). In Oakland people sleep in cars and rvs parked on major roads, same in San Francisco.
One of the biggest resources in the US is cheap abundant land. Why the hell are we concentrating all the talent in a few square miles of it?
I propose jetpacks, to vastly extend peoples' comfortable walking radii.
If you haven't ridden one, go on a "segway" tour of your city. Super fun, and you can see just how simple and mobile you are. Completely replaces most small bus hops.
Besides, we have a dozen modes of transportation already available: cars, buses, motorcycles, segways, bicycles, subways, trams, taxis, powered walkways, rollerblades, skateboards, hover boards, ATVs, skis, sleds, horses, etc. How exactly is walking the panacea of transportation? So much so that people would be willing to live in cars?
Just walking? Maybe not. But fast commutes to work, easy access to restaurants, easy access to culture, lots of things to do nearby, large dating pools? Most certainly.
> cars, buses, motorcycles, segways, bicycles, subways, trams, taxis, powered walkways, rollerblades, skateboards, hover boards, ATVs, skis, sleds, horses
All of which take lots of time! People pay lots of money to live in certain neighborhoods (think Williamsburg and the like) for a reason.
A long commute is something he identifies as always a negative. Humans don't seem to adjust to a long commute -- it will always negatively impact the typical person's outlook/affect/happiness.
I grew up in suburbs and consider them soul sucking hellscapes for robots who've learned to feel despair ... so that probably colors my view of basing cities around them by having people drive all the time.
You wouldn't want to walk along a highway, but because everyone drives in major US cities, even downtown has highway-sized roads.
I'm not super for sleeping in cars, but I already pay a space tax for my living quarters to have walkability (even if I end up taking the train)
Also, horses shit all over the place.
- living outside of a city is actually a luxury. Cheap land, but a long distance to culture and services. Most people cannot afford a car, for example.
- rural living is more detrimental to the environment
Like, I guess I don't understand how nobody is seeing the dystopian future where you have to live in a goddamn car because you can't afford proper shelter. I know it's a thing elsewhere in the world, but people are try to get out of that, not into it.
If we were most concerned about maximizing efficiency, we'd all be living in dense urban environments, using shared public transportation, etc. Most people would sleep in something similar to a Capsule Hotel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel
1. Could view it as a cultural thing. For example, some cultures might embrace minimal personal space. And, the media keeps talking about the "tiny house movement."
2. Everything is relative. I personally opted to buy a smaller house than I could afford, and I generally try to live minimally.
3. In general, it's better for the collective good (less waste) to move in that direction. That said, technological advance might some day allow every human to live in a McMansion.
Also remember that there isn’t a big difference between tiny houses and trailers. Imagine turning SF into a trailer park.
But there is a huge difference between a minimally viable shelter (electricity, plumbing, standing room, privacy) and a car or a capsule. Where exactly do you have sex? Vomit when sick? Keep a pet gold fish? Cook? Poop? All of that is possible in 400 sqft apartment and not possible in a car. So it’s not quite relative.
Good luck with your city without rural folks to grow your food...
Or I guess the driver can just sit in thr parked car and watch for authorities, if they knock, the driver can claim s/he's just about to depart, and their friend (you) just went out like a light.
[0] https://dreamcase.eu/
Also, most camp sites charge ~$10/day for electricity. Depending on the electric rates, they likely won’t lose a dime covering your usage at that price.