Ask YC: How do you lose weight?
After extensive research, I tried the Hacker's Diet and lost 60 pounds over 7 months. The big problem with HD is that it doesn't emphasize increasing your protein intake. As a result, I lost some muscle mass as well as fat. I kept the weight off for two years but eventually gained most of it back. Another criticism of HD is that you lose your energy--had I been working at the time I couldn't have pulled it off.
I recently started a medically supervised diet called a Modified Fast which does emphasize increasing protein and virtually eliminating carbs. One of my board members recommended the clinic and they claim they can do 15-20 pounds a month with no muscle loss or decrease in energy. I'm ahead of schedule but I'm only a couple days in so it doesn't really count. (The first 10 lbs are water weight.) I also take an appetite suppressant called phentermine during both diets.
Here's the Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet) for something similar to my current diet. They call it the Ketogenic Diet. (The whole point is to kick your body into a state of ketosis where it rapidly burns off all your fat. The protein is to make sure it doesn't also burn off muscle.)
So YC, have you ever tried to lose weight? If so, how?
155 comments
[ 150 ms ] story [ 924 ms ] threadhttp://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/06/how-to-lose-...
in addition to this type of diet and exercise, lift weights to build muscle. more muscle = more calories burned. because of this, make sure to take in extra protein, and during the one "break" day, eat minimal protein.
change around the food and such as you like, but keep the principles the same.
"Diets" don't work because the word implies a temporary change in your eating habits. In order to maintain weight loss, you need to change your eating habits for the rest of your life.
Further, in order to be in good shape - not just maintain "low weight" - you need to eat well and exercise. For the rest of your life.
I wouldn't focus on being a certain weight or losing a certain weight - you should initially be staying about even since you will be increasing muscle mass while reducing fat mass.
Part of the problem is that most people have no idea how to do the basic lifts, and most personal trainers don't teach them. Another problem is a basic lack of structure, which is why I advocate focusing on the basic lifts: bench, squat, deadlift and maybe clean & press.
Doing both cardio and strength training is important, but I think most people already understand the basics of cardio.
For the average dude just trying to stay in shape, nothing beats the full olympic lifts. Take the barbell from the ground to over your head with snatches and cleans. Do it right and you'll be stronger than 90% of the people in the gym from 10 minutes three times a week.
FYI: The kind of lifts you see most people do in a gym are derived from body building routines, not proper strength training for athletic purposes. Such lifts will puff up muscles through sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. These slow movement high volume exercises actually decrease peak force, and puffed up muscles will slow you down and decrease aerobic efficiency. Hence the terms "blown-up" or "puffed-up" fighter.
Strength is more a neurological matter than people realize. Achieving higher explosive strength is almost more about training the nervous system than the muscles. The explosive lifts done properly achieve this training, whereas slow heavy-weight movements simply don't.
To equivocate, just snatches and cleans will lead to accommodation quickly. Variations will be necessary. But I will stand by my assertion that ten minute strength training routines done three times a week can leave you stronger than most of the people in a typical gym. You won't necessarily puff up bigger, but you will throw a much harder punch.
p.s.
I like how you admit to being a newbie elsewhere yet you're contradicting me with confidence. I'm not just talking out my ass. This is knowledge I use to win in the ring.
The math just doesnt work out, go and run hardcore for about 3 miles at 250 lbs bodyweight and you are looking at burning about 500 calories. While thats a good amount its the same as maybe 2 bottles of soda. Its a lot easier to cut out 100 calories from 5 meals then to run 3 miles...
So I never advocate exercise for weight loss purposes as much as diet. I greatly advocate exercise for all the other benefits plus the motivation it helps with in dieting.
Really as someone else stated, if you are overweight you need to make a lifestyle change. Cut out all the crap esp empty calories like soda (sugar) pastries, and other junk.
Also, please note there is more to exercise than cardio.
However, excercise does have other effects, possibly including reducing cravings and changing hormone levels and maybe (over the long term) gene expression.
I can and have lost eight pounds (not water) in three days. I could do it right now. I call BS on whatever research.
A pound of fat is roughly 3500 calories. In order to lose eight pounds of fat in three days, you would have had to induce a caloric deficit of over 9000 calories per day.
A note to everyone: The most weight you can healthily lose is about two pounds per week. More than that and you're going to start losing a measurable amount of muscle mass. The exception is when you first start out exercising and eating properly, but that should only last for a couple of weeks.
I specifically said it was not water.
In other words, sorry if you don't believe me, but much of what you lost was water.
Of course proper diet does have a huge effect in weight loss though.
On more than one occasion, I've made relatively mild cuts to my caloric intake (say, 250 Cal/day), and lost significant (>10 lbs) amounts of weight in 1-2 month time periods (and I've kept it off for years). Right now, I maintain my weight (6'2", 180lbs) by eating about 2,300 Calories per day. I don't count Calories anymore (I can estimate pretty well), but by weighing myself daily, I adjust what I eat to maintain.
People think that calorie restriction doesn't work, because they don't give it enough time, they aren't careful about it (i.e. sloppy record keeping), or they cheat. But if you're diligent, patient and honest, it's the most effective weight loss routine you can establish. I recommend using something like calorie-count.com to keep track of everything that you eat for a week or two, then cutting back on that number by a small amount (say, 250-500 Cal.) for a month. You'll be surprised at the results.
Just cut back on soda. Eat half a burrito instead of guzzling the whole thing. Eat proper meals instead of snacking on candy bars.
Just the basics.
I've never dieted, but I'm down at 177 pounds from 189, since I thought I was getting a bit heavy, just through using the techniques above.
I suspect the largest contribution is from not eating an entire Chipotle burrito every couple of days, but instead eating just half, which is still a pretty good meal.
The problem with exercise, like many endeavors, is that the results are from long hard work. Many times as soon as the initial results slow to a crawl people will lose pretty much all motivation. Its the same as anything else really, burnout is not caused by the work but by the months of seeing no results.
I mainly exercise with weight training (5-6 days a week) and cardio maybe 2-3 times a week. I have been exercising regularly for probably about 8 years now. I don't do it for muscle or weight loss anymore (but of course I enjoy those effects) I do it to get away from everything. Its the time when I can really clear my mind and do something is mentally very easy (although many times physically difficult).
I think exercise is the best thing for people that spend many hours doing mentally challenging but physically non-challenging work like programmers or engineers.
So I think you may be underestimating the impact of exercise on weight. I certainly haven't done as much as you but I feel exercise has helped me lose weight.
so yea, at least in my case, exercise doesn't do much for weight. re: stress though, that's a different issue
Sure you were.
You still may have to make some diet changes: sucking down sodas all day long is not a good idea no matter how much exercise you do.
The other thing to realize is that your body will try to adapt to exercising every day. If you are routinely active, your body is going to be less likely to store energy in fat.
go to a nutritionist and they will ask you "what's your diet like?"
Well basically that's it. I go to dancing classes. It's not hard and effect is not instant, but I rate that better than gym.
How to do it is a different question.
My way is to eat mostly fresh food, highest quality meat and fish and very moderate amounts of all. The most important thing: no sugar, and when I say no I mean no! No yoghurt with sugar, no drinks with sugar and also no artificial sweeteners. They ruin the taste and you will always want sweet things. Better have two bad weeks without any sweet things. After that sweet tasts ugly. This is one really big step. If you don't like sweet any more, the whole diet will become more healty.
I do understand this is very hard to achieve in the US. But for me this is very important. Without sugar I can eat enough without high calorie intake. Similar things are true for alcohol. Especially in the evenings its billions of calories.
I run twice a week (10 miles) and swim twice a week (1 mile) . My weight is 145 lbs at 5ft 10. Running and swimming does not burn a lot, but the regeneration phase does (repair, build muscles, refill energy reservoirs etc.). Plus you 'll soon be in great shape and can take the stairs instead of the elevator ;o). Or the bike instead of a car.
Well, and it takes a lot of time and patience. But in the end it works.
Monks life? ;o). Not at all. Fresh milk with cereals and fresh fruits (strawberries, melons) in the morning taste absolutely great. Fresh salad with barbecued fish and a glass of chilly white wine is fantastic in the evenings.
Good luck.
Lookout for hidden calories. Soda, juice, etc can contain about 250 cals per glass. It takes probably about 15 minutes of running to counteract that.
So, to balance those scales of calorie intake (or tip them into your favour) focus on eating better and drink mostly water, coffees and teas.
Exercise is a must. Do whatever form you can do regularly.
Patience is the final piece the puzzle, you can't healthily lose more than a few pounds a week.
http://www.naturalnews.com/022836.html
http://www.hfcsfacts.com/UofWResearchAJCN.html
Pretty much every drink other than water is empty calories.
Being active gives you more "slop." Further, being inactive changes what your body does with those calories.
My home work desk is configured for standing... right now I'm experimenting with mini-steppers though I have a feeling that I either need to hack a full blown stepper or that I need to buy a treadmill. The problem is that most mini-steppers have bad design and will probably break in a month, though if you want a treadmill that doesn't break after prolonged use; I've heard you need to spend a few grand...
Ideas:
- http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/08/the-treadmill-workstation...
- here's one guys hack: http://webworkerdaily.com/2007/07/31/web-workout-make-a-work...
- http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/3634
- http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz/Treadmill_Workstation
I also use a combination of Wii and a mini exercise cyle (not usable for most desks and it's too loud for the office) when I play xbox 360 video games.
http://www.amazon.com/Brookstone-Mini-Exercise-Bike/dp/B0000...
http://www.shovelglove.com/
His logical, noncommercial, do-it-yourself attitude reminds me a lot of the Hacker's Diet.
Once I knew I'd be using the treadmill long-term, I bought a Nordic Track A2350 treadmill online, along with a 4-year extended warranty (added to the year that's already included). There is little chance the treadmill will actually last through 5 years of 5-8h daily usage, so I expect to get my value out of the extended warranty. The whole thing cost about $950 delivered. Far less than a treadmill that's actually built to tolerate this sort of long-term usage.
Edit: I also don't drink soda, diet or regular.
There are many myths and pieces of information out there on dieting. Yes, keeping protein intake up, to a point that many people would even consider disgusting, is important. It's ultimately pure thermodynamics: eating less than you burn. However, it is a big mistake to try and do too much in the gym. The eating is by far the most important part of the equation.
Another big key is that certain diet patterns are much easier to follow. Low carb works very well for me (after a week or two of adjustment where I'm absolutely fried). Once it's locked in, all cravings for high carb and junk foods just disappear. But I have to be careful, because any break from this leads to extreme temptation again.
Weight training has similar effects. The body can be in an anabolic mode with a caloric surplus, and in that case, yes it's good to work hard in the gym. (Most people shouldn't go to failure very often if ever though.) But when you are in a catabolic mode, working out very hard with weights is going to lead to adherence issues again, e.g. dreading the workouts. You don't really need to do all that much to maintain muscle mass, as opposed to building it when you are approaching your genetic limit. Three times in the gym per week at 30-45 minutes per session would be just fine in my opinion.
In summary, picking something you can adhere to is far more important than trying to optimize the equations in a way that someone with infinite willpower might manage.
My issue is not length, but intensity. I understood "not doing too much in the gym" to mean "don't work too hard." If instead you meant use your time in the gym wisely, then that I agree with. But if you want to see continued improvement, then you need to increase the intensity over time. Despite being in the gym the same amount as some people, I'm in better shape because I work harder.
I agree with your summary, but I would stress "work hard." I've found that working hard and continually trying to improve actually makes workouts more fun.
There's a time for intensity. As someone starts to get diminishing returns, the needs increase for higher intensity, probably higher volume, and higher complexity e.g. periodization or something even more complicated than that. The time for intensity is not when you are just starting weight training, in which case anything will work (but someone should do exercises properly of course.) The time for intensity is doubly not when your primarily goal is to lose weight, in which case the body isn't going to have its full resources to repair itself.
As a counter-example to what you said about intensity, check out the video for The Captain: http://www.gymjones.com/video.php
I also like this essay: http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge.php?id=36
2. I stopped drinking soda
People who move and then lose weight probably just don't like the food in the country where they moved.
That said, when I stopped drinking soda, I dropped a surprising amount of bodyfat, and felt better overall.
Not true in my case because I moved to France and food is _good_. But I've noticed three important differences from the US:
1. Portions are smaller 2. People eat more slowly 3. Meals are more varied (given #1 it's quite normal to eat starter + main course + dessert in a restaurant because all are relatively small).
Moving can have a big influence on someone's body/appetite, but moving specifically to Europe has other advantages. There's a book called The French (don't) Diet. I haven't read it, but I know people who have. The basic idea is that French food (and presumably much of Europe's food overall) is naturally healthy. It's not filled with preservatives or infused with high-fructose corn syrup. Those artificial ingredients in most American foods are hard for our bodies to digest, so they move to fat where they are almost never digested. The French food is made of natural ingredients that our bodies can actually use for nutrition and energy, so we don't store the food away - we use it.
The funny thing is that in America, we don't have this artificial food because it tastes better. We have it here because it's cheaper.
On another note, why is this on HN? I know it's tangentially related to the hacker diet, but an Ask YC: How do you lose weight? thread doesn't seem like it would belong here.
You also left out Okonomiyaki, which is not only delicious, but surprisingly healthy. And onigiri...
Damnit, now I miss Japanese food again. :)
He pretty much did the South Beach Diet. It's kinda faddy, but it really is approximately what humans were designed to eat. You should pick up the book, but approximately: no white flour, no white sugar, no rice, no potatoes. First two weeks are pure carb-free (painful) but the rest of the time, complex carbs are okay in moderation.
This really kicked me in the ass to drop weight. I did a fair bit of research into diets and really detested the idea of a fad type diet. But, for me - the South Beach diet allowed me to eat the food I enjoy and not feel like I was starving myself.
Fast forward to April 12th I had lost 42.6 pounds and had my blood retested. My triglycerides were down to 76 (a drop in over 300 points) and my cholesterol was down to 153. Granted triglycerides can range fairly broadly from day to day, but the doctor was very impressed with my progress.
This week, I started a morning exercise routine as outlined by the Hacker Diet ( http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/chapter1_2_5.html#Exerc... ). My goal is to drop an additional 25-30 pounds, which will get me to 170-175, over the next year by eating right and exercise.
During those two weeks, it was hard to focus + I would get headaches from the withdrawl. Nowadays it's much easier to find whole grain/lean meat alternatives at every restaurant. All you need is will power to make the right choices.
I would actually repeat the South Beach just for this wine tasting experience :)
and humans weren't approximately designed to sit in chairs for 10-12 hours day typing away staring at a computer screen.
the diet matched the activity.
People ate high fat preserved food. Cheeses, pemmican, manteca, bacon, etc. Also pickled stuff.
So if all you do is sit around, try living off tubs of lard and sauerkraut.
Frankly, most of us are professional sitters. We essentially do nothing physical every day. If we were, historically, designing the human system, we would have never expected it to expend so little energy in a day. We have systems to manage and regulate weight but our activity level is below the expected minimum and they fail. Design-wise--we are not what was expected, so we must consciously do more.
This is to say that medicine and science can help you tremendously with 1) but you need to get your head in a different place if you want to succeed at 2) and that is hard++.
In addition to your efforts at 1), I would _strongly_ recommend working on new habits. One I continually recommend is getting the habit of doing something physical for an hour a day on average. If you can't do an hour at first, do a half-hour on average. By something I mean literally that: bounce a ball against a wall, go for a walk, go for a run, hit the weights, jump rope, bicycle, etc. Just make sure you are fairly constantly active for the period. I think this something idea is more effective because it is much easier goal to keep. People fail at 2) because they cannot stick to their goals for new habits.
This is already more than I intended to write, but I have one last point. Focus on developing a truthful awareness of what you are putting into your body. Eating is an amazingly subtle and powerful mental process. Forcing yourself to be aware of what goes into your body will help you engage better habits.
Switch out breads and starches for veggies. Eat a meat with spinach and tomato, instead of fries / pasta. Skip the soda, skip dressing and use more spices for flavor.
If you're gonna go for a gimmicky diet, I recommend the caveman diet: http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html
If you want to lose weight you need to include both exercise and proper nutrition in your life (I don't like the word "diet").
Running, weights, PT, biking, swimming, etc. Brisk walking is great. Just do something!
My best advice regarding exercise is to make it a habit by including it in your daily routine. At first you'll feel worse when you do exercise than when you don't, but if you persist you'll soon feel worse when you don't. That's when you've succeeded.
The body's a machine, and with proper fuel and maintenance you have the best chance for a long and productive life.
When I'm eating that salad every day during lunch I just tell myself it's "brain food," and I notice the difference in the afternoon.
I also believe being a balanced and well-rounded person gives you the best chance of being a successful entrepreneur. You can only sprint for so long--think instead of "what I'm going to do for the next 40, 50, or 60 years."
Right now I'm still getting "newbie gains", but I can't even begin to describe how great it feels to know that every day I'm stronger and healthier than I've ever been in my life. I'm also happier and handle stress better than ever. Really, exercise is that miracle drug everyone seems to be searching for.
"Fit for life" is a good mantra, because fitness--a balance of stamina and strength--improves every aspect of life.
It's probably not quite "that simple." How else to explain the epidemic of obesity? Lifestyle hasn't changed that much since the 70s. It's dietary changes, most conspicuously much lower fat intake. Composition of calories matters a whole lot. So many people have difficulty executing on weight loss because they are malnourished in various ways.
I hate this guy and think he's a self promoting huckster, but he does an adequate job of making the point on calories here: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/02/25/the-science-...
Exercise. Establishing a lasting exercise routine is the only way to stay healthy for life. I was about 40 pounds overweight for 5 years and tried all sorts of diet changes, and nothing lasted for more than a month or so.
Instead of going on another diet, I started running. The above route is almost 6 miles that I ran last week. In February, I could barely run a half mile. It didn't take that long to get into great running shape, and I feel fantastic. I've only lost about 10 pounds, but I figure I've gained about 10 pounds of muscle and lost about 20 pounds of fat. Instead of concentrating merely on what's on the scale, concentrate on how you feel- the scale will come around eventually.
It's very simple to describe: 1. I stopped eating crap: no chips, pop, snacks, a bit less high-fat stuff etc. 2. I scaled back the portions: I was amazed as how much less food I needed to be full and have energy when I started cutting back. I am not a small person (6'4"), but I find lunch portions in most restaurants are a bit too big and dinner portions are often times insane. 3. Started exercising seriously - last summer I ran about 10km 5 days a week, the year before I biked about 120km-150km/week. It may be tough to get started, but after a while it actually gets easier.
I've made several changes in my life that I feel contribute to my loss. I don't know which changes have the most effect, but like anything I think it's a little bit of all of them.
First up, Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants. The book "In Defense of Food" changed my life. It's not a diet at all, but guidelines to how to eat better for yourself and the environment. I feel this has had the most impact on my weight loss. I eat way more fruits and vegetables now but less food overall. I try (it's damn hard) to stop eating when I'm full.
I also go to the gym every day. I don't have a in-depth program. I just have day 1 and day 2. Day 1 is 25-30 minutes of cardio and some simple weight training. I typically hit each major muscle set with one set of reps. Day two rests my weight training -- I do 40-45 minutes of cardio. I should also clarify that I don't hit the gym every day; I don't always go if I'm doing some other physical activity that day.
I've been working from home since mid-January. I use the gym in my building at lunch. Again, I do it every day. Commuting and lack of showers in my office were a huge mental barrier for me doing this in the past.
I've also been reliably and visually recording my weight. Every Monday I weigh in when I get up. I put my weight into a google spread sheet and it draws a graph for me. Seeing my progress has been a great reinforcement.
On top of the spreadsheet, I said in January that I want to be 190lbs by May 1 (I'm a pound off track right now). I used the spreadsheet to track where my progress should be. I purposely set my goals for roughly a pound a week. I was able to do a quick formula to show me where I should be every week. This allowed my to check my progress in bite sized pieces.
Good luck!
The exercise regimen is very practical. It requires 30 mins 3 times a week. All exercises can be done at home with the addition of an exercise ball and chair-no need to buy expensive equip AND they can be done even when I'm away from home. The exercieses also increase in difficulty as time progresses so you don't feel stagnant. I've definitely seen results.
All the details on the program are here:http://bellyoff.menshealth.com
That's pretty much the most important thing you need to lose weight.
Exercising burns calories when you do it, and then your body burns more calories just by itself when your muscles are bigger and so on.
It's like owning a website which brings you income just by chugging along!
Also, whenever you really yearn for something delicious to stuff your face with, try eating some kind of fruit instead of that chocolate bar.
Fruit can be delicious too, and will most likely be less fattening than, well, anything that you can't pick up from a tree/bush/the ground.
If you really want to go hard-core, eat lots of carrots.
They're definitely not delicious, but at least they provide you with the sensation of Eating, and keep your mouth busy, thus preventing it from devouring sweets.
I believe most diets are just an illusion - or bullshit - pick one.
Actually, here's what I would recommend:
- Stop drinking soda. Drink less beer and more wine and whiskey. Hoooyah. - Don't snack and do get in to things like organic dark chocolate instead of Snickers for dessert. - Set a goal to do something like 100 sit-ups and 25 push-ups a day, no matter what. - As much as possible, eat locally-grown foods. Fat, salt and other undesirables are used to counter the loss of flavor in most food that's packed, shipped, frozen, etc. - Drink a full glass of water before every meal. - Eat more slowly. Using chopsticks helps with this, until you get really good with chopsticks. - Get some exercise band/tube things. You can loop them under your chair and do shoulder presses at about 25-35lbs. resistance while puzzling through an intellectual problem in your code, or while staring at some stupid YouTube video.
The rest is all just about being more active. If you do that well and your metabolism goes up, you don't even have to be as picky about dieting. On top of it, some increase in muscle mass will cause you to shed more calories across the board.
I have often heard the exact opposite advice: eat smaller meals and have more between meal snacks, though obviously with a focus on healthy snacks.
Why do you find this to be a more effective approach?
So, we agree. If you want to slice up some cucumber and dip some humus, that's probably fine. If you're staring at a bag of chips, that's probably trouble.
One of the best methods to make snacking benign is to not stock anything unhealthy. Like, if it's crap, don't buy it and then you won't have to worry about avoiding eating it at home later.
Step 1: See a real nutritionist and have them develop a nutrition plan for you.
Step 2: Exercise.
It's pretty much that easy. And the nice thing is that once you've got those 2 steps figured out, you'll find you don't have to worry about losing weight ever again because you'll know how to maintain your weight.
It helps you figure out how much to eat, and let's you indulge occasionally so you don't go crazy. Their new online site is fairly geeky, and there are some great recipes as well.
No meetings or anything. Just online. It works!
Thanks Mark