Truth is as coders we understand we can do whatever the fuck we please, so wearing a suit or a gorilla costume are equally acceptable if they help get the job done.
Edit : cuss word added for effect. Not sure if you guys and gals also talk like proverbial sailors at work sometimes. Try doing it with the halo effect turned on
I care to explore this comment it should not be ignored. The confidence ultimately comes from the trusty aspect of the suit, not from any inflation of the ego. The pride associated with wearing suits and ties is a rookie phenomenon. Anyone who wears suits long term realizes it's a humbling display of modesty and equality in actual fact, contrary to conventional wisdom.
I care to explore this comment it should not be ignored. The confidence ultimately comes from the trusty aspect of the suit, not from any inflation of the ego. The pride associated with wearing suits and ties is a rookie phenomenon. Anyone who wears suits long term realizes it's a humbling display of modesty and equality in actual fact, contrary to conventional wisdom.
I agree.
I have friends who wear makeup to work that reason. The confidence from looking like they are put-together. I imagine wearing a suit can be the same mental confidence.
Most certainly the put together effect cannot be understated. I looked up the definition of confidence one day and fundamentally it means holding onto some intimate knowledge like a secret that provides an advantage to the holder. It has grown to mean so wany things it's one of those words like 'agile' where agreement on terminology ironically masks disagreement on ultimate meaning.
There's a youtube who always wears a suit in his videos, here he talks about why he started (and continues). It's quite interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqp5zI4Ng_s
The halo effect is definitely one aspect, also the Diderot effect or California effect. There are many other nuances I care very much to understand, one of them being a possible memory palace effect.
I'd like to know all about it from any perspective. I've come to learn the reasons people do things are varied and worthy of respect. It may seem outwardly that one is exhibiting a certain behavior for one reason whereas the truth may underlie a completely different motivation. The question relates to coders who prefer a suit and tie for any reason and we're hoping to understand what those reasons are.
The cultural and societal implications are important and extend from the personal and individual motivations.
I had a long think on this, it occured to me that fitting in was not always the intention of casual office attire. One inhention originally was to fly in the face of convention and show a level of superiority due to technical prowess versus the squares in suits. There's a sociological phenomenon which escapes me. The same reason teenage girls go out in public with trackpants and messed up hair.
I am the son of a geologist. My father spent his career working around crushed or ground minerals, and the chemicals applied to them. The trousers he kept to do his own coal sections would have been rejected by a fair proportion of the homeless population. He was a wonderful man, but not much of a model for what one wore to work.
I married the daughter of a manager, who in fact started giving input on my wardrobe before we were married--I think before we were particularly serious. Since we married, she has generally set out my work clothes. Monday through Thursday, this includes a tie. September through May, it includes a jacket. On an irregular basis it will be a suit.
At the job where we met, I was expected to wear jacket and tie to customer sites. At the next--a government contractor--I was expected to wear a tie. At this one, nobody cares. I have been here long enough that people would certainly notice if I started to show up in tee shirt and jeans, or even omitted the tie, but I don't think anybody cares one way or another. Most employees here wear what I'd call business casual. In a building with about 250 persons, there might be five other men who wear ties, and a few more women who wear something comparably dressy.
My advice: blend in. Don't give people an excuse to reject you.
It's cool of you to share bro. I would care we reserve judgement and the urge to draw conclusions until we have collected a lot of evidence.
My father too has a PhD and dresses like mantracker. Blending in is a societal concern we can address once we settle the personal ones. I'll share one reason I wear a tie, it helps with my hypertension from stress and helps me contain my anger at technical debt and things of that nature. I wear a jacket for all the pockets. It's like cargo pants but with a different cultural perception. We're after personal choices here.
Edit: my pockets have sub pockets into which I put desk keys and the like.
Yes, most certainly. The tie in combination with a comfortable stiff collar compresses the arteries in my neck and prevents me from letting anger and stress rise up into my upper chest area and stay there. In combination with breathing I can dissipate the anxiety to the rest of my body. As well, it does not allow for loud outbursts. Fundamentally, suits and ties alter your posture and behavior patterns to more gentle ones in my experience, while providing needed support.
It's like a G suit allowing me to work in higher atmospheric pressure and stress without damaging my soft internal organs.
I don't understand, could you elaborate on how compression around your neck prevents anything from rising into your upper chest, considering the higher positioning of the neck in relation to the chest?
I had to check the definition of hypertension, it seems I'm using the alternate definition being a state of psychological stress. In my case prolonged sitting at the desk in a frustrated state led me to hyper-extend my neck region, kind of puffing out my chest. By the end of the day I would invariably have a ball of pain above my sternum? (right where the nucktie knot goes)
The necktie prevents any pressure from building up there and subtly changes the way one swallows to support the adam's apple. It's very comforting once you get the hang of it but I can understand why people find it uncomfortable, especially if the fit isn't right.
Essentially the tightness afforded by the tie alerts one to the pressure buildup earlier than more 'comfortable' collars which provide less support, thereby allowing one to take a rest or breathe and allow the pressure to dissipate.
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918606 in this post they show how getting in touch with your body helps understand your own emotions. The tie helps amplify these signals by increasing sensitivity, as mentioned earlier!
I've done it a few times, usually because it provides a distinction between working at home (on side projects) and working in the office (on work related ones). Keeps me from getting sidetracked by random things and what not.
Sometimes helps you look smart on the journey too, if you're travelling through a more businesslike area to get to work.
Yes! The separation of work-life is huge. I've thrown a bowtie into the mix too for added levels. As well, the message the bowtie sends is impossible to put into words. It shows you don't give a damn about what anyone thinks but you still care immensely. Contrast with ripped jeans which would have to be very distinctly tailored to give off the same vibe.
I am required, but I am not technical. Financial consultant for a government client.
If you have to, I suggest getting the best pants you can afford. I wear dress pants that are slim fit but have some stretch to them, making them infinitely more comfortable.
It sucks horribly. I am very into fashion and dressing up and buy nice clothes, but holy shit ties on a daily basis are the worst thing ever. And I don't even get to wear fun formal wear - I am stuck in conservative colors and such.
I am going back to school this Fall and am looking forward to dressing more casually day-to-day.
Totally understand your sentiment. If I may ask, when you look at men like Don Draper in a suit and tie or politicians etc. do you surmise they too are uncomfortable? In other words do you believe it's impossible to be comfortable in a suit and tie? In my case, like a swaddled baby I'm happy as a clam in strawberry jam. Ironically, tightening the tie makes me more comfortable.
I agree on getting the best you can afford. I'd estimate paying about 2-4% of pre-tax income yearly and buying Brooks Brothers suits exclusively. There are added benefits to $1000+ suits. And shirt collars matter. Stiffer collars at your exact neck size distribute the pressure of the tie and make it super comfortable.
At this point my suit is as indenspensible and trusty as my top-of-the line retina MacBook Pro. I've understood why it's called an investment.
Edit: the same rule applies to shoes and of course I'm talking sticker price, not register price. There are seasonal sales.
What advice are you looking for? Fashion? Where to buy? Fit? How to wear a suit when coworkers don’t? My advice for fashion and fit is to find a picture of something you like and go to a reputable men’s suit retailer. They will help you ensure a proper fit and offer custom tailoring (which might not be optional). Get the suit tailored and give feedback as to how you like your clothes to fit. Take the shoes you want to wear with the suit. Allow the tailor to measure you and help you with the fit for your body type. When you pick up the suit after tailoring, try it on again to ensure it is how you expected it. If not, have them make adjustments. A suit that is uncomfortable stays in the closet. Pick out two different color shirts and two different color ties. Again, the professional at the store you picked can help with color, fit, and selection. This will make your suit more flexible. Be prepared to spend some extra money on appropriate accessories as well (like a belt and socks). Ask for a garment bag with your purchase to ensure you keep your new purchase in good shape while hanging in your closet. Dry cleaning is a must with a nice suit, but if your don’t expose it to harsh treatment (rain, wind, dirt, etc) you should be good with several wears before cleaning is necessary.
Hey! It sounds like you're familiar with the ins and outs. This is great advice for anyone and personally I have selected Brooks Bros. as a one stop shop for all my needs. (not paid for the endorsement)
Can you tell us about your journey in terms of workplace dress and how it has served you?
On the subject of fit, I'd care to indicate 'fit' is a door that swings more than one way. It's how the clothes fit on the person as well as how well they fit into the situation. Clothing becomes an important measure of awareness on a corporate or societal scale but the task of this thread is to examine personal motivations and inspirations so to speak.
Oops no, I'm in Iowa, USA and live in the boonies. I go into town for lunch most days, in a long-sleeved dress shirt, suit pants, a tie (but I wear a bolo), a jacket and decent shoes. Not terribly fancy but not 'casual' at all.
Bolo for the #yolo! I'm gonna have to pick one up next time in Texas or Nevada, or Iowa! I'd like one with an Egyptian looking scarab beetle or maybe a sort of butterfly or bird motif?
I have to admit - my ties are not all southwest/native in design. I make them myself and use all sorts of stones, blown glass, fossils and even wood emblems. Of course I make silver-and-turquois (the most common request I get!) too. The turquoise I get these days is all synthetic; the American deposits of real turquoise are long run out.
I found a cloisonné fish in a shop once, and made a tie for my niece who's getting a PhD in fisheries. She loved it!
I want to find an office that doesn't care when I come in with jeans and a cut-off. I'm a programmer, everyone knows we're not client facing in any clothes.
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[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] threadPlease, please don't be that guy.
What's wrong with it? Unless it's a dress code that you need to wear Jeans, you should be able to wear something smarter without fear.
A fedora, right?
Edit : cuss word added for effect. Not sure if you guys and gals also talk like proverbial sailors at work sometimes. Try doing it with the halo effect turned on
The cultural and societal implications are important and extend from the personal and individual motivations.
Here is a video that came up on Digg which underscores this idea. http://digg.com/video/mind-body-problem
People make all sorts of assumptions. We treat casual clothes like a form of democracy, what if professional clothes fit the same heuristic?
I married the daughter of a manager, who in fact started giving input on my wardrobe before we were married--I think before we were particularly serious. Since we married, she has generally set out my work clothes. Monday through Thursday, this includes a tie. September through May, it includes a jacket. On an irregular basis it will be a suit.
At the job where we met, I was expected to wear jacket and tie to customer sites. At the next--a government contractor--I was expected to wear a tie. At this one, nobody cares. I have been here long enough that people would certainly notice if I started to show up in tee shirt and jeans, or even omitted the tie, but I don't think anybody cares one way or another. Most employees here wear what I'd call business casual. In a building with about 250 persons, there might be five other men who wear ties, and a few more women who wear something comparably dressy.
My advice: blend in. Don't give people an excuse to reject you.
My father too has a PhD and dresses like mantracker. Blending in is a societal concern we can address once we settle the personal ones. I'll share one reason I wear a tie, it helps with my hypertension from stress and helps me contain my anger at technical debt and things of that nature. I wear a jacket for all the pockets. It's like cargo pants but with a different cultural perception. We're after personal choices here.
Edit: my pockets have sub pockets into which I put desk keys and the like.
It's like a G suit allowing me to work in higher atmospheric pressure and stress without damaging my soft internal organs.
The necktie prevents any pressure from building up there and subtly changes the way one swallows to support the adam's apple. It's very comforting once you get the hang of it but I can understand why people find it uncomfortable, especially if the fit isn't right.
Essentially the tightness afforded by the tie alerts one to the pressure buildup earlier than more 'comfortable' collars which provide less support, thereby allowing one to take a rest or breathe and allow the pressure to dissipate.
Sometimes helps you look smart on the journey too, if you're travelling through a more businesslike area to get to work.
If you have to, I suggest getting the best pants you can afford. I wear dress pants that are slim fit but have some stretch to them, making them infinitely more comfortable.
It sucks horribly. I am very into fashion and dressing up and buy nice clothes, but holy shit ties on a daily basis are the worst thing ever. And I don't even get to wear fun formal wear - I am stuck in conservative colors and such.
I am going back to school this Fall and am looking forward to dressing more casually day-to-day.
I agree on getting the best you can afford. I'd estimate paying about 2-4% of pre-tax income yearly and buying Brooks Brothers suits exclusively. There are added benefits to $1000+ suits. And shirt collars matter. Stiffer collars at your exact neck size distribute the pressure of the tie and make it super comfortable.
At this point my suit is as indenspensible and trusty as my top-of-the line retina MacBook Pro. I've understood why it's called an investment.
Edit: the same rule applies to shoes and of course I'm talking sticker price, not register price. There are seasonal sales.
Can you tell us about your journey in terms of workplace dress and how it has served you?
On the subject of fit, I'd care to indicate 'fit' is a door that swings more than one way. It's how the clothes fit on the person as well as how well they fit into the situation. Clothing becomes an important measure of awareness on a corporate or societal scale but the task of this thread is to examine personal motivations and inspirations so to speak.
BUT when I leave the house, its in full kit. Because I like to. Its nice to look good.
https://www.birchbox.com/guide/article/how-to-wear-bolo-tie
Wicked to know we're representing on all levels. I'd best start with cowboy boots though..
I had this idea of wearing a camelhair jacket; the bolo would a absolutely kill it.
I found a cloisonné fish in a shop once, and made a tie for my niece who's getting a PhD in fisheries. She loved it!