Literally today, my wife took her Macbook (bought last year) to the Genius bar to get the Enter key fixed - you had to press really hard to get it to take. The repair person just cleaned off the underside of the key. They said they didn't even see any debris. I think there is a real design flaw here.
I definitely prefer my 2015 MBP over the TouchBar models. The 1 thing I DO like about the new models is universal USB-C charging.
I have an Anker USB-A/USB-C charger for my phone and it charges my TouchBar MBP just fine. Beats having to buy an expensive Apple charger to have one at home and one at the office.
Other than that, the 2015 has USB-A, HDMI, better keyboard, smaller touchpad, and actual Fn keys.
USB-C has been better than MagSafe for me for 3 reasons: 1) Can charge off either side, which has solved most of the cases MagSafe helped me with 2) I can replace just the cable with a cheap third-party one instead of replacing the whole expensive Apple charger when their crap cable falls apart 3) Can extend my battery life off a regular USB power bank
I wonder what actually changed in the new design that causes this problem? The travel is obviously shorter butsomething else is fundamentally causing the problem. Does it have a smaller surface area/pad, different pad material, different coating etc...
It is a completely different design. The old one was basically a dimpled rubber sheet with some plastic-scissor-stabilized keycaps over the top.
The new one is made of little buckling metal parts.
They mainly changed designs so that they could make the keyboard thinner – the new one is something like half the depth, or less. Since key travel is reduced, they needed a snappier mechanism to keep enough tactile feel.
The feel of the new keyboards is actually impressively okay for something with so little key travel. (Personally I would prefer something with the snap of the new keyboard and at least as much travel as the old keyboard.)
The problem is that the little metal pieces get easily slightly bent and stop snapping as much as they should, and also dust gets into the contact mechanism and stops keys from registering.
I have had no problems with the current Macbook Pro keyboard. Am I in the minority? I also love the feel of it. I really like the low travel and the Touchbar helps a bunch with my RSI. I don't use the Trackpad at all unless I really need to. I also use Emacs which gives you an idea of how much I use the keyboard.
I've only had problems when I eat food and use my laptop. Some crumbs get under a key and then prevents it from traveling. Usually i get some canned air and try to blow it out. I could see it being a bigger problem for other in places that are extra dusty
I had very few problems (the keyboard sometimes stuck but quickly fixed) until my spacebar went suddenly this weekend. Seems to be a case of when, not if, which won’t be good for resale value of this generation. It’s a nice laptop in many ways though.
Had mine for almost a year. There was a couple times the shift key had to press really hard, but just hitting it really hard rapidly usually realigned it.
The back of my Macbook screen does make intermittent popping sounds though.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I said this in another post somewhere too but I love the new MBP keyboards. I've had my current machine since launch with no issues whatsoever and I'm a web and software dev so I pretty much type all day long. The low travel is amazing and I love both the trackpad and the touch bar. I have no issues with the machine so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :-P
returned my mbp 2016 for a number of reasons, and... was mixed on keyboard and trackpad.
keyboard - generally liked the feel more than the previous 2015 model, but... it was louder. noticeably louder, even if I tried to type lighter. Definitely created some friction in situations where none existed before. And... MBP2016 trackpad size - just was too large for my liking. I knew of no one demanding a larger trackpad, but know of many people (myself included) who had some issues with the larger trackpad (stray palm issues, etc). The few people I know who liked or wanted a larger trackpad used an external one, which had the bonus (for them) of being movable.
It looks like people are voting you down, which seems a little snippy--your experiences are just as valid as the experiences of people who want to throw their laptop through the wall.
I have a non-touchbar MBP with the new keyboard (and I've had it for about a year at this point), have a 15" touchbar MBP for work at my new job, and had a 13" touchbar MBP at the job I had in 2017, and none of them have had any problems. However, I usually keep the work laptops closed and use external keyboards, and I find for personal travel I tend to use my iPad with the Magic Keyboard more than the laptop. (I also have an iMac for work that requires heavy lifting.)
This is definitionally a man-bites-dog situation. "Keyboard works fine" doesn't make news; "keyboard stops working because someone at neighboring desk ate a cookie" does. I suspect that you and I are not in the minority, and that the new keyboard works fine for most people. But even if that's true, the failure rate is anecdotally orders of magnitude higher than Apple's previous keyboard design, and that makes it a problem that needs to be addressed. Like much of Apple's recent design choices, they have become too willing to compromise function to achieve form. (I know some would say they've done that for decades, but I think they mostly hit the right balance until the last 3–4 years.)
Either Apple did no durability testing, or Apple did durability testing, uncovered reliability problems, and decided to launch with this keyboard anyway.
My guess is option 2. Neither option is encouraging.
The extent to which Genius Bar staff are aware of the problem, and whether or not they’ve received specific instructions about it, is something we can only guess at.
I also love it. At least I did until last week when my Command key stopped working. Blowing and shaking got something dislodged I guess, because it started working again. Unfortunately whatever it was got stuck under the space bar. :(
I've personally found that the steps work pretty well, and also if you have a vacuum with a brushed attachment on a lower setting may help if compressed air doesn't do it.
You could also bring it in to the apple store and they could attempt to clean it for you!
The keys on the new MBPs are removable with a small amount of effort; I've done it a few times to remove a piece of dust that has lodged itself where it shouldn't without damaging the keyboard at all.
From the comments here, you'd think that no one knew they could remove the keys!
Not saying that you are wrong, but I have a couple of questions: do you touch type? which types of keyboards did you use in the past? Laptop, desktop, chiclets? Mechanical?
I think this may have to do with the kinds of keyboards people are used to. Some prefer lighter keys, some prefer a lot of key travel, some like clicky keys, etc.
This is why Cherry makes so many kinds of switches...
At home at my Desktop I type in an IBM model M. I used to have a Corsair k70 which I played FPSes and Warframe. I have a Apple Bluetooth keyboard that is a chicklet. I also have a Chicklet keyboard on a Toshiba satellite . I also used the chicklet keyboards on a MacBook Pro 2011 and a MacBook Air 2012.
On my k70 I had red Cherry MX switches . When I was in kindergarten I used Apple II keyboards.
For mobile devices I used an Motorola droid and a Treo. Also a blackberry .
EDIT: Sorry forgot to mention I touch type (I am touch typing on a IBM model M right now).
And now my heuristics got completely overwhelmed and I cannot fanthom why someone who types in an IBM Model M would like the Macbook Pro keyboard :)
Although we have both used the apple bluetooth keyboard and Airs, so that may have contributed for the higher tolerance of the new Macbook Pro keyboard.
Right now I'm typing using a Logitech K750 solar keyboard, which feels very similar to Apple's bluetooth keyboard (although I feel that the keys need slightly more pressure to activate). It is dead silent which is great to use around coworkers.
At home I want to get a Kinesis Freestyle Edge for the ergonomics, and I'm debating if Cherry MX Browns or Blues would be better.
Whenever I profess my love for the new keyboard here, someone always asks me if I touch type.
Yes. The new MBP keyboards actually kick ass for touch typing, and I'm just as shocked when someone doesn't think that, as you are (I'm guessing) when you find out that I touch type.
I have used and loved Model M and Thinkpad keyboards, among others. Now I can't use anything else because the new MBP keyboards are so much better, in my opinion.
I touch type, and I don't understand how important some people find keyboard switches.
Yes, there are some keyboards I don't like. But they are pretty rare and almost everything else I'm fine on.
I have a 2014 MPB I like, a MS Wireless Keyboard 700 I use as my daily keyboard, a Logitech K260, and various Dell, HP and Acer keyboards. All are fine for me.
My personal theory is that the people who experience this problem are people who produce or invite an above-average amount of particulate into their work space (whether it's cigarette ash, bread crumbs, skin flakes/dandruff, cat hair or whatever) and into their laptops. Clearly this problem exists, but at the same time, the majority of owners aren't affected.
I used to work with a guy who smoked at his desk (back when indoor smoking was less of a faux pas), and his mechanical keyboards were full of ash.
I have one and am a bit indifferent to it. Personally I slightly prefer the older version but it isn't a big deal. I also am kind of indifferent to the touch bar. It looks neat but is not that useful except in one or two apps.
Overall I think Apple reached and then slightly overshot the point of no more returns on "thin and light."
Lots of trouble with mine as well. Key presses getting doubled or more. Especially on the "b" key. Had to replace the entire key and membrane and clean underneath the glued membrane to get it working again. (was 2 months out of warranty)
Also had the left command key just fall off. I know I rest my finger on it, but it shouldn't just fall off.
I like the low travel that some complain about, but any keyboard is useless if it doesn't work consistently.
Just FYI, some credit cards extend manufacturer warranties to two years, so may be worth looking into it. Also, which model do you have? Some non-TB 2016-2017 13" MBP are eligible for a free topcase replacement for battery issues.
It's the TB 15". I thought about seeing if I could go into an Apple store and see if I could get them to do it, but I am currently 2 hours away from the closest real one.
I took mine in and the Apple Genius just tried to clean it to no avail. So, I have a broken "b" key and need to send it in to get it fixed. The "guy who could take the keycaps off wasn't there" despite the pre-questions Apple asks before the appointment scheduling.
I'm going to wait a bit. I was one of the people who took their iPhone 6 in and paid full price for the battery (3 times because 3 of the 4 phones we bought had the same problem). I plug it into thunderbolt 3 docks at home and work, so I guess I can hold out until Apple admits it sucks and has an actual fix. I'm under AppleCare but I just don't see the gain in sending it in to get replaced by another keyboard that will break again.
I'm on this model and have now had to replace four keys from the QWERTY row (E, R, T, and O).
The issue is that the pinchers at the top of the key no longer hold after a while, so the keys fall off. I do like having four E keys, though. (Rather than try to guess which key would fail next I just bought a bunch of E keys).
When I took it to an Apple store they told me they couldn't just replace the keys and wanted to do a whole top case, leaving me without my computer for a week. I think they guessed (correctly) that if you have one key come up that the rest will follow. My "I" key is feeling loose and will probably go in the next week or two.
The "S" and "Command" keys kept falling off on my '16 MBP. Replaced them at $12/piece a few days ago from an online store.
My issue appears to have been the brackets on the keys themselves perhaps broke or wore down over time due to how impressively fast and heroically accurate I type.
Apple Stores CAN get the keycaps for these models. I think they default to replacing the top case because replacing the keycaps themselves don't always resolve the issue, but if you ask nicely at the apple store they may be willing to give you a few extra key caps if you're willing to install them yourself!
They can technically just replace the key caps, but it's possible it won't resolve the issue, or the top case may suffer more significant damage during the replacement and they don't want you to unexpectedly be without your computer for a week because the key cap repair failed. You could ask them to try it though.
Sorry, this one is kind of a dupe of my other post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16922476 - it disappeared off the front page so quickly that I thought I’d see if a Daring Fireball link fared better. Apparently this is just some kind of anti-spam for Apple related posts though so moderators please feel free to handle as appropriate!
The new MacBook Pro (2016 to current) is a mess on multiple levels, the entire thing should be scrapped and redesigned.
The 2015 model and before remains the best Mac laptop, it's too bad they couldn't just update that to have 32GB RAM and a modern CPU. The keyboard is already great, it already has many ports that are widely used, it has a hardware escape key and function keys, it does not have an annoying touch bar, it's an upgrade in every possible way compared to the newer mess for what a "pro" user actually cares about.
I have a loaded late-2013; it feels weird that I can have basically any laptop in the world that I want, but there's such marginal improvement in 2015 vs. 2013, and actual regression from 2015 to 2018, that my mac is almost 5 years old.
(I have a 64GB RAM Acer for workstation use, though.)
Joined a startup, raring to go, and they needed to get me a top-end MacBook Pro (16GB instead of 8GB as I recall). Apple stores in SF refused to stock the top-end, pointing me to their build-to-order options at the store. +5 days minimum.
Went with a mail-order house and next day aired in a top-end MacBook Pro laptop (which they had plenty of in every color). Shift key was DOA. Took it in to the Apple store. They had the gall to tell me that since I didn't buy it directly from Apple, they wouldn't (not couldn't, wouldn't) repair it in store, but would send it to their warranty center in Houston (right after Harvey). Got it back fixed, but so many days wasted.
Apple gets so many really difficult things right. Simple-seeming things like basic customer service and proactive quality control escape them.
Depends on the country / store tbh. Canadian Apple Stores don't send any Macs out to repair centres. US stores generally do, but I think they still have the latitude to do some repairs in store.
The new one? I was told they would have to send my 1 month old, purchased from an Apple Store late 2016 MBP in for a flakey 'R' key to have the top case replaced. I asked if they could pop off the keycap and clean it and they said that they do not do that on the butterfly design.
I think what he meant it is doesn't always fix the problem for problematic keys.
For me, it has always fixed problems of keys that stopped working, but it doesn't seem to necessarily fix keys that double press. I assume that is related to an issue of the membrane itself or something under it.
I read "anyone" in this context to mean Apple is not discriminating against people who purchased from 3rd parties.
This is in response to the GP's comment "They had the gall to tell me that since I didn't buy it directly from Apple, they wouldn't (not couldn't, wouldn't) repair it in store" - which isn't the case, this is the policy for the butterfly models.
And replacing the top case means removing every other component, putting them all back in, and then testing it to make sure you didn't cause any new problems!
It's hard to overstate how incredibly out of line this (and Apple's larger pattern of unserviceable hardware) is with the company's professed dedication to sustainability. They can convert all of their facilities worldwide to renewable energy, but they can't fix a single key on a keyboard without sending the entire keyboard, aluminum housing, and lithium-ion battery to the landfill (or at best an energy-intensive recycling process)?
>It's hard to overstate how incredibly out of line this (and Apple's larger pattern of unserviceable hardware) is with the company's professed dedication to sustainability.
I've had two repairs on my MacBook Pro done in an Apple store within the last year. They had to order the part, i dropped it off when it came in, and usually got it back within a day or two.
Your startup should have ordered the laptop in advance of your start date. My company standardizes on the 16gb model. They never have them in store, we have to order them online, about a week or so before we need them.
I found an old Thinkpad laying around in the office once and just for shits and giggles decided to give the old Linux thing a try. Threw Ubuntu on it, hated it, tried again with Debian, now I'm a full convert. It's my main dev Machine but I've thrown a Debian VM on my PC at home for when I WFH and dual booted my MacBook I was using before with Debian.
Neither is a good option for an established company — in that situation your app is likely too large/complex to compile quickly on a mini and the legal grayness associated with hackintoshing makes that a no go.
At work I just use an external KB while I’m working at my desk (98% of the time), rendering the macbook’s internal KB almost entirely moot.
I agree. The Mac Mini is enticing as a build server because of its price and form factor, but goddamn does it feel slow. I suppose a Mac Pro would be a better choice but they are so much more expensive.
If anyone working even remotely for the european union, or any agency willing to take on Apple for bad practice: THIS is the real legal thing you should complain about.
Locking people out of your software store if they don't buy your hardware for their development is an absolute scandal.
Ideapads, not thinkpads. There were never any evidence of such shenanigans showing up on the thinkpads.
Whenever i see someone complain about brand X, it is because hey picked up the cheapest model on offer at some corner store. Buy the business models...
I still run a T61p (bedroom), T420, and T430. I keep wanting a new one but they're all plugging along just fine. On the T420 right now.
I even bust out my T42p from time to time when I want to play old 4:3 games. My X200 is my media center for my bedroom TV as well.
I've used Thinkpads since ~1995. Lenovo has screwed up here and there, but I'd say they're still 90% as good as the IBM ones (after the initial 2-3 years).
I'm using a T42p as one of my main machines, mostly due to the screen (1600x1200 at 4:3, have not found its equal yet) and the keyboard. The thing is 14 years old but it still works like new, it still runs ~2 hours on the (extended) battery. I did put an SSD in the machine (using a $1 PATA-SATA adapter which sits between the drive and the socket, I only needed to modify the drive hatch on the side of the machine to get it to fit) but for the rest it is stock standard.
Now that more and more functions are moving back into the server - did I say server, it should have been 'cloud' of course... - these older machines are actually getting more usable again as their rather anaemic processors (1.8GHz Pentium M) and limited memory capacity (2GB + 128MB VRAM) are getting to be less of an issue.
In what sense is the touchpad worse? Is it because it is smaller and it isn't covered in glass? I've been using touchpads ever since Cirque launched the original 'Glidepoint' - I still have the original, it still works but the RS232-interface it uses is getting rare - so I have some experience using the things. I also have an Apple 'magic touchpad' which I use with a stationary machine. What the latter has going for it is the size - which fits stationary applications but gets in the way within the confined space of a laptop - and the glass cover - which doesn't wear down like the plastic versions do. The 'clickpad' functionality can be handy but it has its drawbacks as well, especially when your fingers happen to be all the way at the top of the pad where clicking the thing takes noticeably more force than at the bottom, this due to the design where the actual switch sits at the bottom feet. Nearly all touchpads support multi-touch gestures (two-finger scroll being the one I use most).
I write for a living. Jumped on the new MacBok Pro without test driving it. ouldd not type with out making lots of errors. Gave it to my daughter and went with an Airbook. She bought a separate keyboard to use with the Macbook.
I've had this problem and when I got an even newer mac I solved with a cheap plastic keyboard cover. It has completely solved the problem, but i'm dumbfounded as to why Apple hasn't simply fixed this by preventing stuff from getting under the keys using a similar method.
I had to use a new Macbook pro for a while and didn't for one (willing) second use the keyboard. I've also used Windows and Linux laptops of various configurations and really never used the keyboards. I mean, a laptop keyboard is something you use on the airplane or at a meeting. But for real work? Never. Why do people torture themselves?
But the Mac keyboards have been broken for a while. A pointless function key where the control key belongs? No one has explained that one to me yet. So, just keep the stupid thing shut and problem solved.
> This keyboard has to be one of the biggest design screwups in Apple history.
I feel like this is a bit overstated. What about "Just avoid holding it in that way", or Apple Maps v1, or the Magic Mouse 2 that requires you to stop using it to charge it?
Yah seriously, I actually think the magic mouse v2 complaints are ridiculous. Apple Maps v1 WAS bad, but if you didn't like it, you could still use google maps.
We're probably both right. I did exaggerate slightly - what I said was true but not always - if you had a really strong signal the problem might not be noticeable, and I'd expect that the different frequency bands used in different countries made a difference as well. It was certainly a huge frustration for me - the product was not fit for purpose. Easily worked around sure, but still a big deal.
Yeah it's all arguable but seriously "minor defect"? Holding a phone has to be a mandatory design requirement wouldn't you agree? Compare this to a faulty keyboard I'd say holding a phone causing it to be useless trumps that.
Maps was bad. Real bad.
> The police department stated that the error was potentially life-threatening, as national park temperatures could rise to 114 °F (46 °C) and those traveling would be without water supplies
Apple Maps was really bad, but that doesn't necessarily make it a mistake. IIRC, Google was demanding that Apple share a lot more user data for further use of their data in Maps, which would probably have been worse for Apple long-term (particularly given how well their privacy angle is serving them now in 2018). If they picked the better of two bad options, that's not a screwup, it's just unfortunate. The quality was understandable for the amount of time they had to produce it. There are limits on how fast you can effectively scale up to compete with Google's thousands of Maps staff.
The antenna problem may have been worse than I remember. I'd still say that at least that has cheap and easy user fixes once you become aware of the issue.
The Magic Mouse 2 charging situation is entirely by design. I'm totally serious.
Apple stated they don't want people to leave the mouse plugged in forever, hence having an unnecessary wire, so the design ended up the way it is to force wireless use.
I don't really mind, can see that point I guess. I like the MM2 to be perfectly frank, but I recognise that I'm a minority.
I'm in exactly the same situation. I just wish it had coffee lake, 32gb of ddr4 and a modern gpu - e.g. an upgrade. Who cares if it's marginally thinner and lighter?
With Ubuntu 18.04, Linux is more usable than ever... already runs my desktop and I'll be switching my laptop to Linux as well unless Apple releases something more suitable for power users this summer.
My beloved matte-screen 2011 17-incher failed unrepairably a couple of months ago. I decided to get a new 2017 15-inch model rather than take my chances getting another 17-inch one off of eBay. I had read lots of complaints about the keyboard, so I was prepared to possibly hate it, but it's okay, though not quite as good as the old one. The Touch Bar and larger trackpad seem like gimmicks to me. Well, the Touch Bar has its moments of usefulness, but against that, I hit it accidentally too often, and it's sensitive to the slightest touch.
Overall, I'm not unhappy, really. It is faster than my old one was, and much lighter, and has better battery life as long as I'm not doing anything CPU-intensive. Would I have been happier with the older 15-inch model they're still selling? In retrospect, I don't think I would have been any less happy, and I would have saved some money.
I just this week purchased a 2015 refurb MacBook Pro (the last model year before the keyboard redesign) because of all the compromises one makes when choosing a Mac, an unreliable keyboard is where I draw the line.
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[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 67.6 ms ] threadhttps://theoutline.com/post/4277/dont-buy-the-new-macbook-pr...
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/83frmc/macbook_pro_2...
The subreddit is mostly rabid diehard Apple fans, so the amount of discussion there on this is telling.
I'm on my 7 year old MacBook Air and I've never had keyboard issues. Looks like I'll be waiting for the 2018 MBP to upgrade.
I have an Anker USB-A/USB-C charger for my phone and it charges my TouchBar MBP just fine. Beats having to buy an expensive Apple charger to have one at home and one at the office.
Other than that, the 2015 has USB-A, HDMI, better keyboard, smaller touchpad, and actual Fn keys.
I think the tolerances for "pressed" are too small for "real world" use. Any crumb will "lock up" the key.
The new one is made of little buckling metal parts.
They mainly changed designs so that they could make the keyboard thinner – the new one is something like half the depth, or less. Since key travel is reduced, they needed a snappier mechanism to keep enough tactile feel.
The feel of the new keyboards is actually impressively okay for something with so little key travel. (Personally I would prefer something with the snap of the new keyboard and at least as much travel as the old keyboard.)
The problem is that the little metal pieces get easily slightly bent and stop snapping as much as they should, and also dust gets into the contact mechanism and stops keys from registering.
The back of my Macbook screen does make intermittent popping sounds though.
keyboard - generally liked the feel more than the previous 2015 model, but... it was louder. noticeably louder, even if I tried to type lighter. Definitely created some friction in situations where none existed before. And... MBP2016 trackpad size - just was too large for my liking. I knew of no one demanding a larger trackpad, but know of many people (myself included) who had some issues with the larger trackpad (stray palm issues, etc). The few people I know who liked or wanted a larger trackpad used an external one, which had the bonus (for them) of being movable.
I have a non-touchbar MBP with the new keyboard (and I've had it for about a year at this point), have a 15" touchbar MBP for work at my new job, and had a 13" touchbar MBP at the job I had in 2017, and none of them have had any problems. However, I usually keep the work laptops closed and use external keyboards, and I find for personal travel I tend to use my iPad with the Magic Keyboard more than the laptop. (I also have an iMac for work that requires heavy lifting.)
This is definitionally a man-bites-dog situation. "Keyboard works fine" doesn't make news; "keyboard stops working because someone at neighboring desk ate a cookie" does. I suspect that you and I are not in the minority, and that the new keyboard works fine for most people. But even if that's true, the failure rate is anecdotally orders of magnitude higher than Apple's previous keyboard design, and that makes it a problem that needs to be addressed. Like much of Apple's recent design choices, they have become too willing to compromise function to achieve form. (I know some would say they've done that for decades, but I think they mostly hit the right balance until the last 3–4 years.)
My guess is option 2. Neither option is encouraging.
The extent to which Genius Bar staff are aware of the problem, and whether or not they’ve received specific instructions about it, is something we can only guess at.
I've personally found that the steps work pretty well, and also if you have a vacuum with a brushed attachment on a lower setting may help if compressed air doesn't do it.
You could also bring it in to the apple store and they could attempt to clean it for you!
From the comments here, you'd think that no one knew they could remove the keys!
the problem is that they're (really) easy to break, and hard to replace.
I think this may have to do with the kinds of keyboards people are used to. Some prefer lighter keys, some prefer a lot of key travel, some like clicky keys, etc.
This is why Cherry makes so many kinds of switches...
On my k70 I had red Cherry MX switches . When I was in kindergarten I used Apple II keyboards.
For mobile devices I used an Motorola droid and a Treo. Also a blackberry .
EDIT: Sorry forgot to mention I touch type (I am touch typing on a IBM model M right now).
Although we have both used the apple bluetooth keyboard and Airs, so that may have contributed for the higher tolerance of the new Macbook Pro keyboard.
Right now I'm typing using a Logitech K750 solar keyboard, which feels very similar to Apple's bluetooth keyboard (although I feel that the keys need slightly more pressure to activate). It is dead silent which is great to use around coworkers.
At home I want to get a Kinesis Freestyle Edge for the ergonomics, and I'm debating if Cherry MX Browns or Blues would be better.
Whenever I profess my love for the new keyboard here, someone always asks me if I touch type.
Yes. The new MBP keyboards actually kick ass for touch typing, and I'm just as shocked when someone doesn't think that, as you are (I'm guessing) when you find out that I touch type.
I have used and loved Model M and Thinkpad keyboards, among others. Now I can't use anything else because the new MBP keyboards are so much better, in my opinion.
Yes, there are some keyboards I don't like. But they are pretty rare and almost everything else I'm fine on.
I have a 2014 MPB I like, a MS Wireless Keyboard 700 I use as my daily keyboard, a Logitech K260, and various Dell, HP and Acer keyboards. All are fine for me.
I used to work with a guy who smoked at his desk (back when indoor smoking was less of a faux pas), and his mechanical keyboards were full of ash.
It’s not as if we’re demanding a keyboard that works at the bottom of the ocean or can handle ingress by lunar dust.
Overall I think Apple reached and then slightly overshot the point of no more returns on "thin and light."
Also had the left command key just fall off. I know I rest my finger on it, but it shouldn't just fall off.
I like the low travel that some complain about, but any keyboard is useless if it doesn't work consistently.
Can you elaborate or link-to some more info on "replace the entire key and membrane"? Apple want to replace the top-case at AUD $650...
Failed: compressed air
Failed: cleaning under the key.
Success:
Remove the key (careful, these keys really like to break the bottom u hooks)
Remove the butterfly
Peel off the glued membrane
Cleaned all with 90% alcohol.
Took a new membrane (you might be able to use old) and used E6000 glue and a toothpick to glue it back (don't get the contacts).
Replaced butterfly and key.
Not a good solution, but it worked.
I got the key, butterfly, and membrane from replacementlaptopkeys.com.
It looked like the contacts were getting coated/corroded and not making good contact? Perhaps heat?
I'm going to wait a bit. I was one of the people who took their iPhone 6 in and paid full price for the battery (3 times because 3 of the 4 phones we bought had the same problem). I plug it into thunderbolt 3 docks at home and work, so I guess I can hold out until Apple admits it sucks and has an actual fix. I'm under AppleCare but I just don't see the gain in sending it in to get replaced by another keyboard that will break again.
Have a new MBP with old-stool keyboard (yes I have and esc key), and it feels good so far, but oh boy will I be pissed if it shits the bed.
these things are too expensive to fail that easily. "design" is one thing but, fragiltiy not ok.
The issue is that the pinchers at the top of the key no longer hold after a while, so the keys fall off. I do like having four E keys, though. (Rather than try to guess which key would fail next I just bought a bunch of E keys).
When I took it to an Apple store they told me they couldn't just replace the keys and wanted to do a whole top case, leaving me without my computer for a week. I think they guessed (correctly) that if you have one key come up that the rest will follow. My "I" key is feeling loose and will probably go in the next week or two.
My issue appears to have been the brackets on the keys themselves perhaps broke or wore down over time due to how impressively fast and heroically accurate I type.
The 2015 model and before remains the best Mac laptop, it's too bad they couldn't just update that to have 32GB RAM and a modern CPU. The keyboard is already great, it already has many ports that are widely used, it has a hardware escape key and function keys, it does not have an annoying touch bar, it's an upgrade in every possible way compared to the newer mess for what a "pro" user actually cares about.
(I have a 64GB RAM Acer for workstation use, though.)
Joined a startup, raring to go, and they needed to get me a top-end MacBook Pro (16GB instead of 8GB as I recall). Apple stores in SF refused to stock the top-end, pointing me to their build-to-order options at the store. +5 days minimum.
Went with a mail-order house and next day aired in a top-end MacBook Pro laptop (which they had plenty of in every color). Shift key was DOA. Took it in to the Apple store. They had the gall to tell me that since I didn't buy it directly from Apple, they wouldn't (not couldn't, wouldn't) repair it in store, but would send it to their warranty center in Houston (right after Harvey). Got it back fixed, but so many days wasted.
Apple gets so many really difficult things right. Simple-seeming things like basic customer service and proactive quality control escape them.
And if they don't stock your configuration in store, there's no way to just hand you a new one either.
I'm not saying your experience was any less shitty than it was, but there's nothing else they could have done than what they did.
For me, it has always fixed problems of keys that stopped working, but it doesn't seem to necessarily fix keys that double press. I assume that is related to an issue of the membrane itself or something under it.
This is in response to the GP's comment "They had the gall to tell me that since I didn't buy it directly from Apple, they wouldn't (not couldn't, wouldn't) repair it in store" - which isn't the case, this is the policy for the butterfly models.
Unlike the earlier chiclet design they don't pop the keycaps off, they literally replace the top case.
If you're out of warranty this is a $500 repair.
You're shocked that a corporation lies?
iTunes. shudder
It's just... So clean...
Or just build a hackintosh.
At work I just use an external KB while I’m working at my desk (98% of the time), rendering the macbook’s internal KB almost entirely moot.
Locking people out of your software store if they don't buy your hardware for their development is an absolute scandal.
Whenever i see someone complain about brand X, it is because hey picked up the cheapest model on offer at some corner store. Buy the business models...
I even bust out my T42p from time to time when I want to play old 4:3 games. My X200 is my media center for my bedroom TV as well.
I've used Thinkpads since ~1995. Lenovo has screwed up here and there, but I'd say they're still 90% as good as the IBM ones (after the initial 2-3 years).
Now that more and more functions are moving back into the server - did I say server, it should have been 'cloud' of course... - these older machines are actually getting more usable again as their rather anaemic processors (1.8GHz Pentium M) and limited memory capacity (2GB + 128MB VRAM) are getting to be less of an issue.
The mac UI is nicer than the various Linux window managers.
Running a mac lets me do cross platform development
Well that is entirely subjective. To me OS X is a cluttered, distracting, cold-grey mess.
I think there should've been a massive recall. I don't know why people put up with spending a fortune on a laptop and you can't even type on it...
But the Mac keyboards have been broken for a while. A pointless function key where the control key belongs? No one has explained that one to me yet. So, just keep the stupid thing shut and problem solved.
I feel like this is a bit overstated. What about "Just avoid holding it in that way", or Apple Maps v1, or the Magic Mouse 2 that requires you to stop using it to charge it?
> Just avoid holding it in that way
Pretty minor defect when honestly compared with other options on the market at the time, blown out of proportion by the media.
> Apple Maps v1
Forced move for business reasons, recognized by most Apple employees as shitty but inevitable.
> Magic Mouse 2
A few minutes of downtime every month is annoying and maybe a mistake, but less critical than a non-functioning non-replaceable keyboard.
Maps was bad. Real bad.
> The police department stated that the error was potentially life-threatening, as national park temperatures could rise to 114 °F (46 °C) and those traveling would be without water supplies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maps#Early_inaccuracy
Just because they made updates over the last 7 years doesn't take away from the fact that the initial release was a big "design screwup".
Magic Mouse v2 yeah I get the charge time doesn't last long but it's still a stupid design. Less critical sure I agree.
The antenna problem may have been worse than I remember. I'd still say that at least that has cheap and easy user fixes once you become aware of the issue.
Apple stated they don't want people to leave the mouse plugged in forever, hence having an unnecessary wire, so the design ended up the way it is to force wireless use.
I don't really mind, can see that point I guess. I like the MM2 to be perfectly frank, but I recognise that I'm a minority.
The keyboard still works perfectly whereas my acquaintances that have bought newer models have had the keys falling, failing, discolour and whatnot.
That and the ineffable mate screen and screen size.
I've changed the memory, the hard drive and the battery to keep going and it's still going, albeit with more fan noise.
I'm really afraid/don't want to switch to a new/lesser MacBook Pro.
With Ubuntu 18.04, Linux is more usable than ever... already runs my desktop and I'll be switching my laptop to Linux as well unless Apple releases something more suitable for power users this summer.
Overall, I'm not unhappy, really. It is faster than my old one was, and much lighter, and has better battery life as long as I'm not doing anything CPU-intensive. Would I have been happier with the older 15-inch model they're still selling? In retrospect, I don't think I would have been any less happy, and I would have saved some money.