How much of it is choice though? I suspect the vast majority of super commuting isn’t by choice - especially if you include people who want to have any money left over after baseline expenses.
If you work in Mountain View for example there is nothing on the market less than 1 million, so you would have to be at the high end of earners at google to get a house there (I recall a person on twitter saying that they were unable to afford Mountain View or Palo Alto even though both she and her husband worked at google).
I commute for 3 hours a day, and that required a 200k down payment.
I can’t imagine someone making a even twice median wage getting much closer than that, even renting.
How large a percentage of post tax income are people comfortable paying into mortgage in the US?
1 million is a lot, but that’s the average house price in my area as well, and we are certainly not getting SV level salaries here, so it seems quite conservative that two Google employees can’t make payments on a $1 million house.
I mean, 150k is what, roughly 8k a month take home? (Don’t know CA tax). Two people making that can easily afford 7-8k a month on the mortgage.
Most people here are paying 50-60% of household income as mortgage payment.
Myself included, but that’s because wife no longer works. It was 30% when she was still working, and I’m intentionally overpaying to derisk for the next recession, as well as being on a shorter term (10 years).
Crazy though, interest rates just have to go to 7% and most I know will lose their house.
> How large a percentage of post tax income are people comfortable paying into mortgage in the US?
Isn't a substantial portion of a monthly mortgage payment deductible?
> it seems quite conservative that two Google employees can’t make payments on a $1 million house.
With 20% down, that comes out to ~$5,000/mo in principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. That's $30k/year/person, which is certainly a lot, but it's also within reach of someone making ~$100k+.
I think the most unlikely part of that scenario is the $200k down payment. Maybe people are borrowing more to get a huge mortgage, in which case I'm sure you're right.
> interest rates just have to go to 7% and most I know will lose their house.
Because they didn't get fixed rates? Or just hypothetically, they wouldn't be able to afford their house today?
Only the interest was deductible with several caveats. It was only about 25% of the interest, there is a max mortgage amount, and there is an income phase out. The new tax law limits state and local tax deduction to $10K.
> Isn’t a substantial portion of a monthly mortgage payment deductible?
Wow, mortgage payment deductions on owner occupied properties exist in the US?
Makes sense why people talk about pre-tax income when calculating affordability there then. Here nothing about a mortgage payment is tax deductible for the property you live in, only the interest of a mortgage payment on investment properties, and that rule is not long for this world.
> I think the most unlikely part of that scenario is the 200k down payment
The down payment requirement is steep, but here it is 20% which isn’t nothing, and we saved that in three years on slightly above average incomes for the area. Granted, living in house sharing arrangement so we could actually save.
> Because they didn’t get fixed rates?
We generally can’t fix mortgages for terms longer than 5 years here, so interest rate risk exists until you have a decent amount of equity. Most people fix for 2, because for the past decade rates have only been going down, but I imagine that pendulum has swung and people are carefully watching what’s happening in the US.
Just to clarify - 1 million is low balling. The area I live now - Palo Alto/Mountain View/etc I would be surprised if you got below 2 million. The real problem though is that if you’re getting a mortgage you end up having to pay a further premium on the cost in order to compete with people making cash offers.
As far as mortgage write offs on taxes I think it’s just interest component of your payments, and the new tax bill removes most of those for individuals -
I can't imagine putting in the amount of hours you do, so wondering do you enjoy it? Is the work worth it? And is it because there's no alternative?
My own situation is UK, non-London based. I've been offered jobs there but the commute and house prices just wouldn't do it for me. Right now I have a nice job, nowhere near London salaries but very good for the area, and a nice twenty minute walk to and from work in the morning. If it's raining I just take a 5 minute metro train. Not saying I'm better or worse, just interested in hearing from someone with a very different day to day experience.
I stopped reading after the first case study was someone who wastes four hours a day to go somewhere to do work that can easily be done from where they set out. This is masochism, not reason.
> Every Monday morning, Jamila Souffrant starts her work week with a two-hour drive, from Brooklyn, New York, to Morristown, New Jersey. When she pulls into her office, she doesn’t feel exhausted; she feels inspired and energized, thanks to a weekend spent strolling with her family through their secluded, leafy neighborhood.
This is like adding a mini-road trip to your daily routine.
A coworker at a previous job would commute from somewhere in Indiana to St Louis, MO every day, and he enjoyed it greatly. I've had the misfortune of commuting from Redmond to Tacoma daily - sometimes 2 hours to travel 45 miles - and found it immensely frustrating. An important difference is freedom to travel at highway speeds versus being stuck in stop-and-go traffic.
Right? Brooklyn is just a paradoxical mix of pavement and parking tickets.
I would rather live in Western NJ or Eastern Long Island. Anything metro NYC is off limits for me-- it's not worth the higher salary and nightlife for my personal needs
What these people don't understand is that if urbanism was better adopted in the US they would be able to get to their "leafy suburb" (as the article puts it) without the neck breaking commute.
I feel sorry for people who commute more than 15 min to work each way. Those people don't value themselves since they think their time isn't worth much if anything. How much is 1h of your life worth?
I'm miserable with one hour of daily commute. Miserable! Folks are doing 4 and justifying it? Please, this is an attempt by Trulia to convince suckers that's it's okay to buy a house even if it means spending 4 hours a day on the road.
The story does not mention anything about families. If you have a child in school, you better have family or friends who can support the acute local needs of your child. How do you get back home when your child is ill or something else occurs and you need to be available?
One spouse does the super commute and the other works closer to home/school or maybe not at all. Otherwise you're having to hire sitters, caretakers, etc.
Apparently I'm a supercommuter, with my 1 hours and 15 one-way trip to work. I can tell you that no matter what these people say: it's not worth it. You essentially turn an 8 hour work day (plus whatever lunch time you have) into a 10.5 hour work day.
Given 7.5 hours sleep and 3 hours to do stuff like waking up, cooking dinner and other work around the house, it leaves you with a meagre 3 hours of spare time each day, which is very little time to spend on hobbies and, if you have them, loved ones.
"How Pumping Loads More Fossil Fuels Into The Atmosphere For Four Hours A Day In A Misguided Attempt At Finding A Solution To The Hyper-Inflated Urban Housing Market Is Made Up By The Fact I Get To Listen To My Podcasts"
I'm eager to read your alternative solution to the problem. I'm in a city whose public transportation is a joke. It'd take me longer to get in, if it didn't breakdown, than to drive my 1 hour to 1.15 hour commute.
Plus, for $360,000 I paid for my house, an acre of land, privacy, and piece of mind for my family would get me, maybe , MAYBE, a townhouse in an area of the city that is surrounded by sketchy neighborhoods.
It's not just about "getting to listen to podcasts", it's about getting more for your money in most cases.
Hmm. Don't see too many people in here that don't committee via car (it seems)
I did about 4 hours per day, total, as a mix of train, walking, and possibly a quick subway ride.
The only part of the commute that was terrible was the subway.
Otherwise, you're getting fresh air walking or doing what you want on the train (reading, side work, or browsing Reddit/hn), and enjoying a nice view out the window in my case.
Obviously a shorter commute is better, but the logistics of the commute make a tremendous difference. If I had half the commute but it was by car and dealing with traffic then I'd probably be in a worse mental state.
I guess I'm considered a "super commuter" now? It takes me, on average, 1hr15m to get to work and 1hr40m to get home (due to traffic).
We bought a house in November and I just moved to this job. It was a "can't turn down" type of position even though it wasn't super close. Where we live we paid $200,000 for a 2,400sqft 4bed/3ba/2ga on a fenced 1/2 acre with a pool.
If we sold the house and bought something for $200,000 where my job is, we'd be looking at a 2bd/1ba condo at most. That's not going to fly with 3 kids and 2 dogs.
It's a shitty commute but I do it because it's an awesome job with amazing benefits and I'd do anything to better my families lives. I distinctly remember my dad driving 3 hours one-way to a job for about 1.5 years because he couldn't find anything closer.
It's true I lose relaxation time. I just bought a new car that I really enjoy driving (even in traffic) and I still can get things done that I would do in my free time anyway, e.g. Listen to audiobooks, listen to podcasts, etc. Right now I'm learning German on my commutes.
I may not stay content with the commute forever but for right now the pros outweigh the cons.
> she feels inspired and energized, thanks to a weekend spent strolling with her family through their secluded, leafy neighborhood.
Laughing sadly. Yes, it does that ... for, what, first 6 months? After that, full saturday and half sunday goes into sleeping and recovering, and the remaining half of sunday for apprehending the coming new week.
31 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 83.7 ms ] threadIf you work in Mountain View for example there is nothing on the market less than 1 million, so you would have to be at the high end of earners at google to get a house there (I recall a person on twitter saying that they were unable to afford Mountain View or Palo Alto even though both she and her husband worked at google).
I commute for 3 hours a day, and that required a 200k down payment.
I can’t imagine someone making a even twice median wage getting much closer than that, even renting.
1 million is a lot, but that’s the average house price in my area as well, and we are certainly not getting SV level salaries here, so it seems quite conservative that two Google employees can’t make payments on a $1 million house.
I mean, 150k is what, roughly 8k a month take home? (Don’t know CA tax). Two people making that can easily afford 7-8k a month on the mortgage.
Most people here are paying 50-60% of household income as mortgage payment.
Myself included, but that’s because wife no longer works. It was 30% when she was still working, and I’m intentionally overpaying to derisk for the next recession, as well as being on a shorter term (10 years).
Crazy though, interest rates just have to go to 7% and most I know will lose their house.
Isn't a substantial portion of a monthly mortgage payment deductible?
> it seems quite conservative that two Google employees can’t make payments on a $1 million house.
With 20% down, that comes out to ~$5,000/mo in principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. That's $30k/year/person, which is certainly a lot, but it's also within reach of someone making ~$100k+.
I think the most unlikely part of that scenario is the $200k down payment. Maybe people are borrowing more to get a huge mortgage, in which case I'm sure you're right.
> interest rates just have to go to 7% and most I know will lose their house.
Because they didn't get fixed rates? Or just hypothetically, they wouldn't be able to afford their house today?
Wow, mortgage payment deductions on owner occupied properties exist in the US?
Makes sense why people talk about pre-tax income when calculating affordability there then. Here nothing about a mortgage payment is tax deductible for the property you live in, only the interest of a mortgage payment on investment properties, and that rule is not long for this world.
> I think the most unlikely part of that scenario is the 200k down payment
The down payment requirement is steep, but here it is 20% which isn’t nothing, and we saved that in three years on slightly above average incomes for the area. Granted, living in house sharing arrangement so we could actually save.
> Because they didn’t get fixed rates?
We generally can’t fix mortgages for terms longer than 5 years here, so interest rate risk exists until you have a decent amount of equity. Most people fix for 2, because for the past decade rates have only been going down, but I imagine that pendulum has swung and people are carefully watching what’s happening in the US.
As far as mortgage write offs on taxes I think it’s just interest component of your payments, and the new tax bill removes most of those for individuals -
Do you think it's worth it?
I can't imagine putting in the amount of hours you do, so wondering do you enjoy it? Is the work worth it? And is it because there's no alternative?
My own situation is UK, non-London based. I've been offered jobs there but the commute and house prices just wouldn't do it for me. Right now I have a nice job, nowhere near London salaries but very good for the area, and a nice twenty minute walk to and from work in the morning. If it's raining I just take a 5 minute metro train. Not saying I'm better or worse, just interested in hearing from someone with a very different day to day experience.
This is like adding a mini-road trip to your daily routine.
A coworker at a previous job would commute from somewhere in Indiana to St Louis, MO every day, and he enjoyed it greatly. I've had the misfortune of commuting from Redmond to Tacoma daily - sometimes 2 hours to travel 45 miles - and found it immensely frustrating. An important difference is freedom to travel at highway speeds versus being stuck in stop-and-go traffic.
I would rather live in Western NJ or Eastern Long Island. Anything metro NYC is off limits for me-- it's not worth the higher salary and nightlife for my personal needs
Given 7.5 hours sleep and 3 hours to do stuff like waking up, cooking dinner and other work around the house, it leaves you with a meagre 3 hours of spare time each day, which is very little time to spend on hobbies and, if you have them, loved ones.
Plus, for $360,000 I paid for my house, an acre of land, privacy, and piece of mind for my family would get me, maybe , MAYBE, a townhouse in an area of the city that is surrounded by sketchy neighborhoods.
It's not just about "getting to listen to podcasts", it's about getting more for your money in most cases.
The only part of the commute that was terrible was the subway. Otherwise, you're getting fresh air walking or doing what you want on the train (reading, side work, or browsing Reddit/hn), and enjoying a nice view out the window in my case.
Obviously a shorter commute is better, but the logistics of the commute make a tremendous difference. If I had half the commute but it was by car and dealing with traffic then I'd probably be in a worse mental state.
We bought a house in November and I just moved to this job. It was a "can't turn down" type of position even though it wasn't super close. Where we live we paid $200,000 for a 2,400sqft 4bed/3ba/2ga on a fenced 1/2 acre with a pool.
If we sold the house and bought something for $200,000 where my job is, we'd be looking at a 2bd/1ba condo at most. That's not going to fly with 3 kids and 2 dogs.
It's a shitty commute but I do it because it's an awesome job with amazing benefits and I'd do anything to better my families lives. I distinctly remember my dad driving 3 hours one-way to a job for about 1.5 years because he couldn't find anything closer.
It's true I lose relaxation time. I just bought a new car that I really enjoy driving (even in traffic) and I still can get things done that I would do in my free time anyway, e.g. Listen to audiobooks, listen to podcasts, etc. Right now I'm learning German on my commutes.
I may not stay content with the commute forever but for right now the pros outweigh the cons.
Apart from spend time with them apparently.
Laughing sadly. Yes, it does that ... for, what, first 6 months? After that, full saturday and half sunday goes into sleeping and recovering, and the remaining half of sunday for apprehending the coming new week.