I don't know if I've ever called any of these, but they usually are well trained, non-confrontational, and solely there to help. Many are volunteers who greatly desire to be there.
Additionally, if your thoughts are affected by a medical condition, I would suggest calling a nurse hotline through a health insurance company or university. They can often confirm or deny if you should seek emergency care ASAP.
What's the best way to encourage someone to call when they're showing outward signs of depression but you don't know them?
I saw someone who was very clearly depressed streaming the other day. They weren't responding to chat. Crying. Fetal position on the floor for 7+ hours. Very depressing social media posts, etc.
But I did not know this person. I did encourage them to call, however it was a difficult message to compose. You don't want to make them feel like they're a burden or weak ("call if you need someone") and some people may need encouragement to actually pick up the phone.
So in a situation with a stranger online, who may not see or respond to your message, what would you say?
I think this is where social platforms (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat) should allow friends to suggest anonymously to contact such a helpline (probably show it as an ad/post). Any other way would be considered judgmental/confrontational by the one who is already suffering. An inanimate / non-human thing like facebook suggesting to contact the local helpline may be very very effective in such cases.
I called one because my Facebook friend said he was going to kill himself. They found his address and sent someone to check on him. No idea if he was home at the time or was even serious, but I'm pretty sure he's still alive.
Without saying the same as others, they are there to listen for the most part. A lot of the times, that's what someone under stress and who might be considering taking action needs.
What a lot of people don't understand is that a friend who might be considering suicide doesn't need to be "fixed", or to be given a bunch of quick solutions, or worse to be told "just get over it". What they need is someone who is willing to listen without passing judgement. And if necessary, to provide that friend guidance in getting to a safe place where those with experience can provide care.
For disclosure, I am not a trained counselor. I've had various, very short, training sessions for several close friends and relatives so that I would know what to do, and more importantly what not to do or what not to say.
I'll qualify that with - only if you know what you are doing.
If someone is struggling in the deep sea, dive in to help only if you have experience swimming in the deep sea. This stuff is not simple and can have lifelong negative effects on both parties if done wrong.
I don't think OP was implying you should attempt to counsel the person. You don't need experience to check in on friends and coworkers if they seem off. Ask them if they're having thoughts of hurting themselves. Listen to their answer. If they are, encourage them to seek professional help; whether that is giving them the information to call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (1-800-273-8255) or assisting in getting them in to see a mental health professional.
Has anyone done this and had success? As someone who has dealt with suicidal thoughts for years and continues to struggle with it, it wouldn’t do me any good. I’d lie and act like it’s a ridiculous question, and then I’d probably be binge drinking for the next week from the stress and paranoia from being “found out”.
I had success when someone did this for me fifteen years ago after years in the dark. I was also ashamed of my feelings and hid them as a result of the stigma in society. No two people experiences of mental illness are the same, but I'm glad someone said something. I lied and acted like it was a ridiculous question multiple times before I finally admitted to myself that I needed to commit to getting help. I'm glad I did. No two experiences are the same, but if you're interested in talking more about it my contact info is in my profile.
I have called a suicide hotline. They determined that I was a danger to myself. The police came to my house and took me to a crisis center where I was held against my will for seventy-two hours where other unsupervised, unmedicated residents of a facility for observation before being released.
If I am ever suicidal again I'll just skip the suicide hotline. They were no help, and those seventy-two hours were the worst of my life.
Yeah, that’s pretty much been my experience with our “mental health care” system as well. Well, that and pills that don’t work (for me). Maybe it’s just the world that’s sick.
I have not found evidence to support this hypothesis. Unless you are grossly and spectacularly insensitive, I do not see a plausible mechanism by which simply starting a conversation could have "lifelong negative effects".
There is reasonably strong evidence to suggest that social connectedness has a substantial protective effect on suicide risk. Just asking "Hey, how are you?" and making time to listen can make a meaningful difference to someone in distress.
What is the point of this comment? Are you really disputing the idea that small acts of connection are meaningful (especially to lonely people)? This idea seems very noncontroversial to me.
Someone did this for me a few years back. I didn't cop to anything, but I was down, and it was deeply touching. And honestly, I'm not sure there was much more that anyone could have done.
I involuntarily gasped for air. This isn't someone I expected would die for a long time. Depression is a silent beast, and the stigma around talking about these problems is fatal as ever.
Anthony was inspirational to me in part because, among many reasons, though he lived his life in a very unusual way he was still successful and always adventurous.
If this is indeed a depression-based suicide (I haven't read all of the details yet; they probably aren't even fully available), then it makes a rather profound statement about depression, because who didn't like this guy? Everyone really liked him, and he has produced years of excellent programming.
I really try to downplay the depression-based suicide angle - at least for my own sanity. I like to think that large part of depression is based on circumstances, I leave out the clinical cases that have underlying physiological causes. If you are unhappy enough to end your life, then there are probably things that you can change to stop feeling that way, i.e. job, relationships, friends, habits.
In a lot of ways this make sense to me, he was probably under a lot of pressure to be the guy that everyone really liked. Created this unrealistic expectation that was stressful to meet. Add in poor habits, maybe strained relationship and friends to lean on. It's not hard for people to feel like there is not point in going on with life.
EDIT: I am open to being wrong and invite a discussion of others opinions.
You might like to think that, but its not an honest representation of the majority of suicides. Most people who kill themselves do it, not for circumstantial reasons, but physiological ones like clinical depression.
Many people who try and kill themselves, according to friends who are staff at peer run suicide prevention clinics, do so because of a temporary insanity. They aren't depressed, they just sort of lose their mind for a few hours and if they survive the attempt have no idea how they ended up almost killing themselves. Everybody assumes these people are routinely depressed all the time but they tell you otherwise, that it was a delerious state they were in, unable to reason rationally about what they were doing.
This is a very important point to understand to help people who are in that mode. Dont let them be alone and keep them talking. It will pass in an hour or less.
I'm saddened to say I didn't gasp, I was more saddened that his demons had finally claimed him. Bourdain struggled with addiction in the past and stated flat out when talking about it the reasons he got into drugs in the first place was an emptiness inside of himself. My condolences go out to his daughter who's just 11 and ex-wife as well as the crew at Zero Point Zero that's supported and worked with him for years.
Yup. Just to get rich selling pills that barely make a difference. As someone who’s probably had a prescription for every major anti-depressant, the only difference I never noticed from taking them is that my dick didn’t work.
Not saying that depression isn’t a serious issue and that it can just be “thought away” though. But the drugs are really only helpful to some people, and there’s not much evidence to substantiate that this is just a chemical problem. There may be a chemical element, but IMO this is being exaggerated for profit. Meanwhile we aren’t dealing with any of the underlying social problems that probably play a much larger part.
Physiology and “chemical imbalance” aren’t exactly the same thing. Just because you’re physiologically predisposed to depression doesn’t mean that you can fix that by ingesting chemicals, which is usually what’s implied by that phrase.
I first felt the genuine desire to seek out and socialize with strangers after a dose of kava. I now can’t take it as it conflicts with other medication. But before then and after then, I genuinely experience discomfort around all people.
I recently read the book "Lost Connections" by Johann Hari which covers this issue. In fact, it's a really a book about some deeper problems of Western society (where depression, anxiety, etc. has been on the rise for a long time), so the pharmaceutical pill-pushing and the fairly debunked "chemical imbalance" explanation of depression really just sets the backdrop of the story. He emphasizes - like you mention - social changes in modern Western societies as major causes of depression.
I really recommend the book. If you're not convinced or just want an audio version, then I recommend the episode of the Ezra Klein Show podcast where Johann Hari is a guest - that's what convinced me to read the book.
I’m curious, if depression doesn’t have some basis in chemical roots, then why is it often hereditary? Like other forms of mental illness which are chemical and hereditary, depression also exhibits these characteristics.
The current mainstream view is that depression is partly physical, so you're not wrong.
(edited for clarity) Some say that depression is a chemical imbalance, but this is not a mainstream view any longer (I think, although it's often mentioned in comments on the Internet), although treatment is still very much based on chemicals like SSRI drugs, which have very little proven effect, require constant upping of dosages to gain the small effect they provide, and also having several undesirable side-effects.
It's entirely plausible that some people have hereditary character traits that make them less resilient to stress. They're not necessarily depressed because of their genes, but their genes make them more vulnerable to depression.
We observe a similar phenomenon with diseases like type 2 diabetes. People of south Asian origin have significantly higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes, even after controlling for diet and lifestyle factors. We have identified a cluster of genes that don't directly cause diabetes, but seem to increase the risk of developing the disease. You aren't doomed to develop diabetes if you have these genes, but you do need to be more careful about your diet and lifestyle.
I am obliged to point out that Johann Hari has a distinctly chequered reputation. He lost his job as a columnist at The Independent in 2011 due to multiple substantiated allegations of plagiarism; it later transpired that he had vandalised the Wikipedia articles of journalists who had criticised his conduct.
His book Lost Connections has been strongly criticised for misrepresenting the mainstream scientific position, cherry-picking data and making unreferenced and unsupported claims.
Thanks for your post, I was not aware of the controversy around Hari.
That said, I found his book "Chasing the Scream: the first and last days of the war on drugs" [1] an informative resource that in some places touches on this thread's topic.
It’s just my opinion based on personal experience, from my own struggles and those of people that I’ve known. It seems to make a lot of sense that we like the chemical imbalance narrative because it allows us as a society to wash our hands of this and pretend it has nothing to do with us.
While I don't directly agree with jrs95, the fact is that the pills just plain don't work a lot of the time. Google the medical term "treatment-resistant depression". The very first link says "Despite advances in the understanding of the psychopharmacology and biomarkers of major depression and the introduction of several novel classes of antidepressants, only 60%–70% of patients with depression respond to antidepressant therapy." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3363299/) Presumably, the odds were worse before.
Consider, too, that that probably doesn't even include those that develop tolerance effects afterward; with that, the numbers likely climb much closer to 50%-50% or worse.
“Rather than some embarrassingly reductionist, one-deficiency-one-illness-one-pill model of mental illness, contemporary exploration of human behavior has demonstrated that we may know less than we ever thought we did. And that what we do know about root causes of mental illness seems to have more to do with the concept of evolutionary mismatch than with genes and chemical deficiencies.”
I’m also wary of accepting controversial opinions at face value, and fully support your skepticism here. She’s not my favorite messenger, either. I don’t think ad-hominem attacks are fair, though.
The article is full of references to evidence outlining her position. Do you have any critique of her arguments you can share?
Chemical imbalances may possibly play some role in depression, but we have no idea of which chemicals or what the "correct" balance is.
Antidepressant drugs do work, but we don't really know why. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors appear to work. So do monoamine oxidase inhibitors. So do selective norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitors. We used to think that tianeptine was a serotonin reuptake enhancer, but we now think it's a mu-opioid agonist; either way, it seems to work as an antidepressant. Opipramol is a stone cold whodunnit of a drug.
Nobody really knows what causes depression. We know that there are certain risk factors, we know that there are useful treatments, but we don't really have a clue what's going on inside the brain.
The chemical imbalance hypothesis isn't particularly accurate or particularly helpful. Psychiatrists see some patients who are severely depressed for no apparent reason, but most see far more patients who just have lives that would make anyone miserable. Depression is emphatically not randomly distributed - prevalence rates are vastly higher in certain groups, for reasons that can only plausibly be psychosocial. The chemical imbalance hypothesis lets society abrogate responsibility for the fact that a lot of people are justifiably downtrodden, despondent and hopeless.
We need to recognise depression as a complex, multifaceted disorder with neurological, cognitive and social components. Antidepressant drugs have life-changing effects for some patients, but psychotherapy and lifestyle interventions are also enormously valuable. Some patients achieve complete remission within weeks of starting antidepressant drug treatment; others have tried four or five drugs with no noticeable benefit. If you're suffering from depression, you'd be foolish not to try drug treatments, but you'd be equally foolish to only try drugs.
1. We know that the symptoms of many different varieties of mental illness have been helped by the administration of SSRIs and other drugs that alter brain chemistry.
2. But what we most assuredly do not know is that mental illness patients have detectably different brain chemistry from baseline.
We assume from (1) that (2) follows, but we have no actual evidence of (2). Herein lies the problem. We cannot make a scientific statement on (2) predicated only on (1).
In this specific sense, OP is correct. And the downvotes are unfair. And more research is needed.
I think there a difference between saying what you have said, which admits the possibility of real chemical imbalance based on surrounding contexts, even if more research and evidence is necessary to fully understand or prove it, vs, outright saying that it is a "myth," as the OP did, which is both dismissive and inaccurate.
Yes. I’m not a neurologist and my views shouldn’t be taken as medical. But many issues are classified by the nature of their remediation. Also, it’s my understanding that treating depression with just medicine and no counseling is frowned upon.
Sometimes an awesome life can actually make it harder.
It's easy to justify being depressed when you have a crappy life. (even though your depression probably doesn't have some cause like that)
"I am depressed because I am living in a bad apartment in a bad part of town, working a bad job. If I get a better job and can afford a better apartment, I'll be happy."
Assuming you have some hope for that happening, that can keep you going. At the very least, you have something you think is a cause and things are easier to deal with when we at least think we know why they're happening.
"I have everything I could ever want, and I'm still depressed." Pretty easy to let that spiral you into thinking you're never going to get better and that there isn't any hope.
> "I have everything I could ever want, and I'm still depressed."
Not only that, but it becomes very easy to tell yourself that you don't deserve success. It's easy to look at your life and say "I haven't really worked that much harder, lived that much more virtuously. I don't deserve this, this should be someone else..."
"I should’ve died in my 20s. I became successful in my 40s. I became a dad in my 50s. I feel like I’ve stolen a car — a really nice car — and I keep looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights."
I remember reading about a very successful female model's suicide few years ago - didn't know who she was and can't remember her name now. What I do remember was that she was quite successful materially and jumped from 20th floor (according to the news article).
But what hit me the most was her age - she was just 20 :(
Every person is different and we may never understand what bothers them, even if they appear successful and happy on the outside.
Most cases of depression do care how awesome your life is. Depression rates aren't spiking because people's brains have suddenly stopped working properly, it's because society has gotten progressively more dehumanizing.
It is also a mistake to think that being a celebrity is necessarily awesome. The loss of privacy and the barrier celebrity presents to having genuine interactions can literally be a killer.
Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.
And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.
And he was rich—yes, richer than a king—
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.
So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.
Really, really horrible news. The anecdotal data is really starting to pile up in my mind- Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell, Kate Spade, Anthony Bourdain...
... suicide is all too common in our world, and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others.
All of the money and fame in the world cannot protect you from the depths of your mind.
I hope that anyone struggling with this affliction can know its ok to step away from everything they're doing, get a breath of fresh air, and know that it's ok for everything to go wrong in life.
Males die of suicide more often because they use more successful methods. It makes sense that a female doctor would be much more successful than the average female due to her education.
Agreed. Randomly and anecdotally, I am reminded of Iris Chang, who was a famous author responsible for our knowledge of the Rape of Nanking.
Her cause of death was brutal, and she was going through immense pressure during her last research project. A self-influcted gunshot to the mouth sounds like a horrible way to go.
Perhaps it should read, "especially veterinarians."
> A 2014 federal Centers for Disease Control online survey of 10,000 practicing veterinarians published last year found that more than one in six American veterinarians has considered suicide.
All the money and fame in the world doesn't do much protecting at all: it can lock you in the depths of your mind. Imagine a situation where every interaction you have with other people is fawning or fraudulent. Where all day, every day, someone is either kissing your ass or wiping your ass. Nothing is genuine. Nothing can be trusted. Everyone wants to use you to their own ends.
Fame and the life it brings seems desirable, but there's ample evidence that would indicate otherwise.
If you think about it, it's no wonder so many famous people are depressed, dysfunctional, or disgusting - their self worth and ability to self-evaluate are completely distorted. And the pressure of maintaining that fame, that score that many believe determines how important you are to society, is crushing.
If you're not happy, not content, not satisfied with yourself when you're a "nobody", becoming a "somebody" won't change that. Whatever issues you brought to the table before you got fame and power won't be improved once fame and/or power is acquired. The Good Book says something along those lines a few thousand years ago:
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. - Luke 16:10
> "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. - Luke 16:10
Water that is wet is also dry, and water that is dry is also wet!
What's wild is that people still talk about that time Dave Chappelle "went crazy", left his show, and walked out of the spotlight. He's never been anything other than clear that the he felt like it was messing up his life, for all the reasons you mentioned in that first paragraph.
Having needs is one way to fill the existential emptiness.
It's like wearing a heavy cloak around, after having done so for most of your life, day after day, year after year. If you're a proper adult, age-wise, all of the effort in the world doesn't guarantee that cloak will fall off one day. The idea that it's fixable doesn't play itself out in real life. I would posit that this is why riches and fame only temporarily relieve the weight of it.
I can't decide if celebrity suicides are just more frequently reported these days or suicides overall have actually increased because we live in, what we collectively perceive as, darker times.
I suspect it is the latter, but I don't have the heart to google it.
Every Robin Williams, Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain no doubt causes a bit of a ripple of none famous suicides and thus this news is doubly sad.
What I find interesting is that Nevada actually decreased, a place where you can literally lose it all. All of those Midwest states, where quality of life is generally considered the highest and happiest, have the highest increases.
>Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list of famous, financially successful people committing suicide, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help. Or at least be able to talk to their friends/family when they first notice problems instead of hiding it until it's too late.
When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one.
I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do.
I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies.
Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up.
PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.
(Aside from the tragedy that is this news) Kitchens are wonderful microcosms of results oriented management.
You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, and a broader taste zeitgeist one has to chase.
It's a hard as nails job, but I learned a lot about management.
Also: un- or semi-documented immigrants usually work twice as hard as Americans, for terrible wages, and are the engine of almost every kitchen. So special note and tons of respect to all the people out there sweating to prepare food & improve their and/or their children's lives.
Everyone points to mental Illness. You can't want to die if you're not mentally ill right? But "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Jiddu Krishnamurti
The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.
I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude.
You say after quoting it is getting worse.
This might be the problem, we are infantilizing the population.
Have we swung too far past the place we need to be?
This is a common thread atm amongst most movements, they start out valid, reach their objective, but then what do the zealots which are often very useful to begin with have to do then?
> Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power.
By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.
> Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude.
Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?
Playing devil's advocate but wouldn't the effects have been causing problems in the past as well. The "man up" attitude has been going on for much longer than a single generation. Also do you know of any stats or papers looking at possible connections? Genuinely curious.
Not unless you can control for all the other ills in the world, somehow. Weak evidence is just that; weak. Why not look at other things that happened in 2016 and draw equally valid conclusions? Eg, President Obama's presidency ended in 2016 when the results of the election were announced; the difference between his successor certainly changed national and international attitudes, far more than "man up" is a evidence-based practice that lowers suicide rates, anyway.
For any problem, there is an explanation that is simple, easy, and wrong.
> When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.
There is a sad dark thread going through all of them.. dark humor, his comments on life, interactions with other people etc. She time He made it interesting and very real. The world is not all roses and I think that's what he tried to show.
That is an interesting take and I will need to watch some of his shows again. But I always thought he had a joy about experiencing things and explaining it.
This doesn't give any additional information, his gruffness was part of what made him famous. I dont think that was a source of sadness for him. I was talking more to the effect of Asia Argento being seen with other people last week (not that I think thats the reason, just identifying possible causes).
I will never forget the episode where he goes diving for octopus in Sicily. The comments on how disgusted he was by his guide throwing dead octopus into the water for them to "catch"... it was Bourdain at his best.
Seems like he might have just broken up with his girlfriend. Maybe he did something to offend her and felt guilty about it. Guiltiness is usually more sad than anger.
Like many celebrities, he may have come to terms with the fact that fame and fortune don't make someone happy.
I remember watching Robin Williams perform ~2009. He was hilarious and positive on stage at Cobb. After the show he hung out with us and Bing Gordon (his friend). His entire demeanor changed. Unable to smile, look people in the eyes, and holding back tears. People thought he would be funny off stage but he just was extremely anxious and wanted to leave asap. Anyhow, I feel like people (esp. famous people) hide the their internal deadly struggle.
I always try to remember - more than half [1] of gun related deaths in the US are people taking their own gun and pointing it at their head then pulling the trigger. Who cares what side of the gun debate you are on.
WTF? What is that supposed to mean? Do you believe that guns have some basic, inherent ability to make people want to commit suicide? What planet do you live on?
Anyone who is going to commit suicide using a gun is going to commit suicide by some other means if a gun isn't readily available. Cite: Japan!
Not the OP, but higher availability of guns is correlated with higher suicide rates (most notoriously in US mountains states like Wyoming), because it makes it easier to act on impulse when people hit their lowest points, rather than muddling through because they don't have easy means.
However, I don't see any reporting on how Bourdain died, only that he was found in a hotel room. So unless it comes to light that guns were involved (unlikely, because gunshots would have been heard), I don't think this sad event begs for a discussion of guns as opposed to many other topics around the issue of suicide.
>Not the OP, but higher availability of guns is correlated with higher suicide rates (most notoriously in US mountains states like Wyoming), because it makes it easier to act on impulse when people hit their lowest points, rather than muddling through because they don't have easy means.
Or you know, there might be a third variable there... Something about declining rural areas possibly.
There is that third variable, but there are also studies that control for geography and even study a stable population of depressed patients.
There's also a lot of theory to back up the idea that guns increase suicide rates.
First, if people have to take time to prep for suicide, they have time to think and sometimes change their minds. With a gun, the time between thought and action is so small, they don't have this chance.
Second, guns have a much higher success rate than most other methods. This is why women attempt suicide at higher rates, but succeed far less often -- they usually don't use guns.
There are studies that look at a stable population, and they find that the same person is much more likely to succeed at suicide after they become a gun owner.
For me, it highlights just how many suicides there are, and it also brings up how easy it is to commit suicide in a quick, (relatively) painless manner in the USA.
Access to means of suicide matters. Most suicidal ideation is temporary and most suicide attempts are impulsive. Men are much less likely than women to attempt suicide, but they are much more likely to die, because they tend to choose more lethal means.
In 1998, the UK reduced the maximum pack sizes of paracetamol (acetaminophen) tablets. We saw no reduction in the number of people who attempted suicide by paracetamol overdose, but a 43% reduction in deaths by that means.
My sister killed herself 9 and a half years ago, and I'm pretty convinced that she'd still be alive if she didn't have immediate access to what she used(+).
Due to the method, we know when she obtained it, and the circumstances around that. She got it when there were suicides in her local community, and in retrospect she had probably been thinking about it at the time. She definitely had some mental health issues at the time centered around overwork. She kept it for years, and finally used it when she had a minor setback at work.
Quebec's suicide prevention strategy combined evidence-based practices, and managed to halve the suicide rate from 1999 to 2010, and it's been declining ~2% every year since 2010. Everything they do should be studied by anybody interested in this topic since it works. Things like restricting guns or drugs just means they will leap off a bridge or other method, it doesn't address the root causes which Quebec managed to do.
The above link shows more than just half - 2/3 gun deaths in US are suicide - approx 20,000 out of 30,000 Fairly horrifying but does impact the whole gun control debate IMO.
I myself would rather focus the discussion on why people want to kill themselves in the first place and not divulge into a convo about whether not mommy government should or should not allow us to have guns.
Putting an important decision such as ending ones life behind a single point-and-click action is really bad UX. There should at least be a number of "Are you sure?" prompts and two factor authentication as a bare minimum.
I agree with proper confirmation and 2FA requirements. But the really bad UX is that it's OPT-OUT instead of OPT-IN. If you're going to force users into your system and insist on opt-out then you should at least have the decency to make the opt-out process as convenient and painless as possible.
Better mental health care will likely require what you call "mommy government" as well.
So I guess we will just have to deal with school shootings and suicides because certain americans have to stand by political ideals while the nation burns down around them, empiricism be damned.
It does not. And controlling guns tightly doesn’t mean you magically save 20,000 people from suicide. Give it a rest before we’re dancing with downvotes.
I should be more nuanced in my wording around US hot button topics.
I was merely surprised that the proportion was so large and (that as a UK observer of this debate,) surprised I had not seen it before.
Keeping to the topic, I enjoyed Bourdains books and shows and am sorry to see him go. I hope the discussion here and elsewhere will focus on helping others in similar straits and not get diverted by comments ... such as mine.
I'm not sure you should tie Robin William's continual mental problems with his suicide. After he died, they discovered he had a neurodegenerative disease, and it was causing serious problems with his life (disorientation, etc). He never knew what was causing it, but he knew things were very wrong and getting worse. Had he not committed suicide, he wouldn't have had long to live anyway, and would have had a horrible existence.
He did have mental issues for much of his life, but in the end it was likely his physical condition and not his mental issues that led him to suicide.
It's not clear if he had this condition in 2009 - he might have, but we don't know.
I'm the same way. I usually think "why is this even news, it's not like these people were friends of this person." Then at times like these, I'm reminded what an impact his work had on my life.
This separation needs to end. The sooner, the better. Alcohol is very much a drug.
"An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women8) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity."[0]
It may be worth pointing out here that with substance abuse, people often end up substituting one dangerous thing for another. Just because someone's a recovered heroin or cocaine user and not an alcoholic doesn't mean alcohol's not riskier for them than for other people. Whether or not that'd be true of Anthony Bourdain or not I can't weigh in on.
We went to see him speak once, together with Jacques Pepin and Eric Ripert. It was clear that he felt things deeply, and had a great deal of integrity in his own way. He will be missed.
Anthony was ad close to an idol to me, since his cooking book was the first one I Read, I will surely miss him and his work. I haven’t felt this sad for some public figure since Steve jobs death.
I've been binge watching Bourdain on Netflix over the last few days. Really really strange to watch one more tonight knowing he is now dead. Very sad news indeed!
I really enjoyed his work, it genuinely inspired me to up my cooking game. Eric must be so overwhelmed right now :(
I've had friends take the same way out so this is bringing up some awful memories. The demons within are a powerful force no matter how good things seem to be going.
It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief.
1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anxiety and paranoia; combined with a NARM therapist to help me heal developmental and shock trauma, yoga, holotropic Breathwork and a loving stable romantic relationship. And a lot of grace.
No meds, no longer a prisoner, and my life is vibrant and alive and the past feels like nothing more than a straight jacket I wriggled out of.
The often unspoken truth is that Trauma (developmental, shock, generational) underpins most all mental health issues (save issues of malnutrition, poisoning,tumors and TBI).
This is on the radar of few practioners who instead offer very limited tools to suppress symptoms.
And because mental health is actually a context, folks typically are surrounded by others who don’t have a very deep capacity to honor our expeirences and would rather try to “cheer us up” or change what we feel. The actual need is to have people who help us feel more of what we feel (that leads to deeper relief).
The Suicidal Impulse is a an impulse for the pain of our default mode network to stop. When we have unprocessed traumas, we are in a state of fight or flight and this activation is painful. It also leads to addiction.
Ego (default mode network) death and rebirth is possible without killing the body. It requires a safe context to release the old trauma and form new pathways in the incresed plasticity.
Know that there are actual solutions, it’s not your fault, and there are people here to help — but you will need to take responsibility for healing this as our current society is doing a terrible job thus far.
Maps.org has clinical trials one can get into. And depending on the local laws re prohibition some countries have therapists or guides who will help facilitate.
Holotropic Breathwork gets at the same mechanism of action, albeit a more manual process, and is legal everywhere.
I wish I knew where to seek the treatment you found. I suffer from anxiety, depression, and trauma and it limits my potential every day. I have counselling but I find it extremely difficult to connect with the source of all of it and flush it out. I know it's in there, hiding. The ego death you speak of is what I invite every day but the negativity and shame that my ego has insulated itself with is extremely resilient.
I know this is anecdotal but I've also spoken to a nurse treating depressive patients for 20 years and she swore by recent treatments of Ketamine here in the UK.
My experience mirrors yours in many ways, including the tools, modalities, and techniques you mention. I appreciate what you've shared here and how you've articulated this.
I was reading about the Hong Kong episode for Parts Unknown just yesterday where his girlfriend directed it and they used a famous cinematographer too that Anthony always wanted to work with.
I read Kitchen Confidential when it came out. A hge fan and followed him ever since.
Sympathy goes out to his young daughter and his friends and family.
343 comments
[ 1.1 ms ] story [ 313 ms ] threadAdditionally, if your thoughts are affected by a medical condition, I would suggest calling a nurse hotline through a health insurance company or university. They can often confirm or deny if you should seek emergency care ASAP.
I saw someone who was very clearly depressed streaming the other day. They weren't responding to chat. Crying. Fetal position on the floor for 7+ hours. Very depressing social media posts, etc.
But I did not know this person. I did encourage them to call, however it was a difficult message to compose. You don't want to make them feel like they're a burden or weak ("call if you need someone") and some people may need encouragement to actually pick up the phone.
So in a situation with a stranger online, who may not see or respond to your message, what would you say?
What a lot of people don't understand is that a friend who might be considering suicide doesn't need to be "fixed", or to be given a bunch of quick solutions, or worse to be told "just get over it". What they need is someone who is willing to listen without passing judgement. And if necessary, to provide that friend guidance in getting to a safe place where those with experience can provide care.
For disclosure, I am not a trained counselor. I've had various, very short, training sessions for several close friends and relatives so that I would know what to do, and more importantly what not to do or what not to say.
Everyone needs to know it’s ok to not be ok.
If someone is struggling in the deep sea, dive in to help only if you have experience swimming in the deep sea. This stuff is not simple and can have lifelong negative effects on both parties if done wrong.
I have called a suicide hotline. They determined that I was a danger to myself. The police came to my house and took me to a crisis center where I was held against my will for seventy-two hours where other unsupervised, unmedicated residents of a facility for observation before being released.
If I am ever suicidal again I'll just skip the suicide hotline. They were no help, and those seventy-two hours were the worst of my life.
There is reasonably strong evidence to suggest that social connectedness has a substantial protective effect on suicide risk. Just asking "Hey, how are you?" and making time to listen can make a meaningful difference to someone in distress.
https://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/Suicide_Strategic...
Anthony was inspirational to me in part because, among many reasons, though he lived his life in a very unusual way he was still successful and always adventurous.
The world has suffered a great loss today.
In a lot of ways this make sense to me, he was probably under a lot of pressure to be the guy that everyone really liked. Created this unrealistic expectation that was stressful to meet. Add in poor habits, maybe strained relationship and friends to lean on. It's not hard for people to feel like there is not point in going on with life.
EDIT: I am open to being wrong and invite a discussion of others opinions.
Would you be so kind as to point me in a direction to get more infos on this?
It's so sad that he could not find another solution to defeat his demons.
This. Sucks.
Most people would tell me his life is their dream.
Rest in peace.
We need a more inclusive society for this reason. Things like bullying and other ego boosters at the cost of others separate people.
Not saying that depression isn’t a serious issue and that it can just be “thought away” though. But the drugs are really only helpful to some people, and there’s not much evidence to substantiate that this is just a chemical problem. There may be a chemical element, but IMO this is being exaggerated for profit. Meanwhile we aren’t dealing with any of the underlying social problems that probably play a much larger part.
I really recommend the book. If you're not convinced or just want an audio version, then I recommend the episode of the Ezra Klein Show podcast where Johann Hari is a guest - that's what convinced me to read the book.
(edited for clarity) Some say that depression is a chemical imbalance, but this is not a mainstream view any longer (I think, although it's often mentioned in comments on the Internet), although treatment is still very much based on chemicals like SSRI drugs, which have very little proven effect, require constant upping of dosages to gain the small effect they provide, and also having several undesirable side-effects.
We observe a similar phenomenon with diseases like type 2 diabetes. People of south Asian origin have significantly higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes, even after controlling for diet and lifestyle factors. We have identified a cluster of genes that don't directly cause diabetes, but seem to increase the risk of developing the disease. You aren't doomed to develop diabetes if you have these genes, but you do need to be more careful about your diet and lifestyle.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.921
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari#2011_scandals
His book Lost Connections has been strongly criticised for misrepresenting the mainstream scientific position, cherry-picking data and making unreferenced and unsupported claims.
https://anotherangrywoman.com/2018/01/22/thinking-critically...
That said, I found his book "Chasing the Scream: the first and last days of the war on drugs" [1] an informative resource that in some places touches on this thread's topic.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_the_Scream
> we aren’t dealing with any of the underlying social problems that probably play a much larger part.
I assume your concern for evidence applies to your pet theory as well, are you able to share any?
Consider, too, that that probably doesn't even include those that develop tolerance effects afterward; with that, the numbers likely climb much closer to 50%-50% or worse.
http://kellybroganmd.com/depression-serotonin/
The article is full of references to evidence outlining her position. Do you have any critique of her arguments you can share?
Not all mental illness is chemical, but a lot very much is.
Antidepressant drugs do work, but we don't really know why. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors appear to work. So do monoamine oxidase inhibitors. So do selective norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitors. We used to think that tianeptine was a serotonin reuptake enhancer, but we now think it's a mu-opioid agonist; either way, it seems to work as an antidepressant. Opipramol is a stone cold whodunnit of a drug.
Nobody really knows what causes depression. We know that there are certain risk factors, we know that there are useful treatments, but we don't really have a clue what's going on inside the brain.
The chemical imbalance hypothesis isn't particularly accurate or particularly helpful. Psychiatrists see some patients who are severely depressed for no apparent reason, but most see far more patients who just have lives that would make anyone miserable. Depression is emphatically not randomly distributed - prevalence rates are vastly higher in certain groups, for reasons that can only plausibly be psychosocial. The chemical imbalance hypothesis lets society abrogate responsibility for the fact that a lot of people are justifiably downtrodden, despondent and hopeless.
We need to recognise depression as a complex, multifaceted disorder with neurological, cognitive and social components. Antidepressant drugs have life-changing effects for some patients, but psychotherapy and lifestyle interventions are also enormously valuable. Some patients achieve complete remission within weeks of starting antidepressant drug treatment; others have tried four or five drugs with no noticeable benefit. If you're suffering from depression, you'd be foolish not to try drug treatments, but you'd be equally foolish to only try drugs.
1. We know that the symptoms of many different varieties of mental illness have been helped by the administration of SSRIs and other drugs that alter brain chemistry.
2. But what we most assuredly do not know is that mental illness patients have detectably different brain chemistry from baseline.
We assume from (1) that (2) follows, but we have no actual evidence of (2). Herein lies the problem. We cannot make a scientific statement on (2) predicated only on (1).
In this specific sense, OP is correct. And the downvotes are unfair. And more research is needed.
It's easy to justify being depressed when you have a crappy life. (even though your depression probably doesn't have some cause like that)
"I am depressed because I am living in a bad apartment in a bad part of town, working a bad job. If I get a better job and can afford a better apartment, I'll be happy."
Assuming you have some hope for that happening, that can keep you going. At the very least, you have something you think is a cause and things are easier to deal with when we at least think we know why they're happening.
"I have everything I could ever want, and I'm still depressed." Pretty easy to let that spiral you into thinking you're never going to get better and that there isn't any hope.
Not only that, but it becomes very easy to tell yourself that you don't deserve success. It's easy to look at your life and say "I haven't really worked that much harder, lived that much more virtuously. I don't deserve this, this should be someone else..."
From the man himself.
But what hit me the most was her age - she was just 20 :(
Every person is different and we may never understand what bothers them, even if they appear successful and happy on the outside.
It is also a mistake to think that being a celebrity is necessarily awesome. The loss of privacy and the barrier celebrity presents to having genuine interactions can literally be a killer.
Still an incredible charismatic and passionate person, fantastic writer too.
Cheers Anthony
BY Edwin Arlington Robinson
If you're in a dark place, please, please consider reaching out for help.
I love this community. We gotta look out for each other y'all.
... suicide is all too common in our world, and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others.
All of the money and fame in the world cannot protect you from the depths of your mind.
I hope that anyone struggling with this affliction can know its ok to step away from everything they're doing, get a breath of fresh air, and know that it's ok for everything to go wrong in life.
Your life is always still valuable and fixable.
Doctors don't have higher rates of death by suicide.
I think female doctors do have a higher rate of death by suicide than women in general.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm
I assumed that the trend applied to males too but now I am quite curious as to why it does not apply.
Regional statistics would be helpful too- some have thought that Finns and Russians carry a genetic marker for suicidal tendencies.
Most women use pills, men use guns.
Her cause of death was brutal, and she was going through immense pressure during her last research project. A self-influcted gunshot to the mouth sounds like a horrible way to go.
The ratio is just as lopsided with countries with strict gun control (e.g. Britain).
Alternative hypothesis: death is the goal for many men, while women often use suicide attempts as a cry for help.
> A 2014 federal Centers for Disease Control online survey of 10,000 practicing veterinarians published last year found that more than one in six American veterinarians has considered suicide.
The study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6405a6.htm
Fame and the life it brings seems desirable, but there's ample evidence that would indicate otherwise.
If you think about it, it's no wonder so many famous people are depressed, dysfunctional, or disgusting - their self worth and ability to self-evaluate are completely distorted. And the pressure of maintaining that fame, that score that many believe determines how important you are to society, is crushing.
If you're not happy, not content, not satisfied with yourself when you're a "nobody", becoming a "somebody" won't change that. Whatever issues you brought to the table before you got fame and power won't be improved once fame and/or power is acquired. The Good Book says something along those lines a few thousand years ago:
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. - Luke 16:10
Water that is wet is also dry, and water that is dry is also wet!
Having needs is one way to fill the existential emptiness.
and those challenges are usually poorly understood
It's like wearing a heavy cloak around, after having done so for most of your life, day after day, year after year. If you're a proper adult, age-wise, all of the effort in the world doesn't guarantee that cloak will fall off one day. The idea that it's fixable doesn't play itself out in real life. I would posit that this is why riches and fame only temporarily relieve the weight of it.
I suspect it is the latter, but I don't have the heart to google it.
Every Robin Williams, Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain no doubt causes a bit of a ripple of none famous suicides and thus this news is doubly sad.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/suicide-rates-are...
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/...
>Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list of famous, financially successful people committing suicide, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help. Or at least be able to talk to their friends/family when they first notice problems instead of hiding it until it's too late.
When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one.
I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do.
I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies.
Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up.
PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM
Slides https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/...
Extras https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=b...
You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, and a broader taste zeitgeist one has to chase.
It's a hard as nails job, but I learned a lot about management.
Also: un- or semi-documented immigrants usually work twice as hard as Americans, for terrible wages, and are the engine of almost every kitchen. So special note and tons of respect to all the people out there sweating to prepare food & improve their and/or their children's lives.
The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.
I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.
You say after quoting it is getting worse.
This might be the problem, we are infantilizing the population.
Have we swung too far past the place we need to be?
This is a common thread atm amongst most movements, they start out valid, reach their objective, but then what do the zealots which are often very useful to begin with have to do then?
Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power.
By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.
Keep your stupid opinions to yourself, shiteater.
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude.
Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?
For any problem, there is an explanation that is simple, easy, and wrong.
Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.
There is a sad dark thread going through all of them.. dark humor, his comments on life, interactions with other people etc. She time He made it interesting and very real. The world is not all roses and I think that's what he tried to show.
Like many celebrities, he may have come to terms with the fact that fame and fortune don't make someone happy.
I always try to remember - more than half [1] of gun related deaths in the US are people taking their own gun and pointing it at their head then pulling the trigger. Who cares what side of the gun debate you are on.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...
WTF? What is that supposed to mean? Do you believe that guns have some basic, inherent ability to make people want to commit suicide? What planet do you live on?
Anyone who is going to commit suicide using a gun is going to commit suicide by some other means if a gun isn't readily available. Cite: Japan!
However, I don't see any reporting on how Bourdain died, only that he was found in a hotel room. So unless it comes to light that guns were involved (unlikely, because gunshots would have been heard), I don't think this sad event begs for a discussion of guns as opposed to many other topics around the issue of suicide.
Or you know, there might be a third variable there... Something about declining rural areas possibly.
There's also a lot of theory to back up the idea that guns increase suicide rates.
First, if people have to take time to prep for suicide, they have time to think and sometimes change their minds. With a gun, the time between thought and action is so small, they don't have this chance.
Second, guns have a much higher success rate than most other methods. This is why women attempt suicide at higher rates, but succeed far less often -- they usually don't use guns.
There are studies that look at a stable population, and they find that the same person is much more likely to succeed at suicide after they become a gun owner.
In 1998, the UK reduced the maximum pack sizes of paracetamol (acetaminophen) tablets. We saw no reduction in the number of people who attempted suicide by paracetamol overdose, but a 43% reduction in deaths by that means.
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403
There is some evidence to suggest that gun control is effective in reducing deaths due to suicide.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26396147 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29078268 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29852823
Due to the method, we know when she obtained it, and the circumstances around that. She got it when there were suicides in her local community, and in retrospect she had probably been thinking about it at the time. She definitely had some mental health issues at the time centered around overwork. She kept it for years, and finally used it when she had a minor setback at work.
(+ not a gun)
Focus on why users want to delete their account and not on how easy it is to do so!
So I guess we will just have to deal with school shootings and suicides because certain americans have to stand by political ideals while the nation burns down around them, empiricism be damned.
I was merely surprised that the proportion was so large and (that as a UK observer of this debate,) surprised I had not seen it before.
Keeping to the topic, I enjoyed Bourdains books and shows and am sorry to see him go. I hope the discussion here and elsewhere will focus on helping others in similar straits and not get diverted by comments ... such as mine.
His brain was disappearing before him and he knew it.
Unless Anthony Bourdain had a terminal illness that was destroying his brain and who he was as a person, this is not comparable.
He did have mental issues for much of his life, but in the end it was likely his physical condition and not his mental issues that led him to suicide.
It's not clear if he had this condition in 2009 - he might have, but we don't know.
Sad news.
Commenter was talking about alcohol. He drinks a lot of alcohol in most of the episodes I’ve seen.
"An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women8) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity."[0]
[0]https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co...
I've had friends take the same way out so this is bringing up some awful memories. The demons within are a powerful force no matter how good things seem to be going.
Psychosis, Schizophrenia, Biploar, Anxiety, Suicidal Depression, Panic Attacks.
It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief.
1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anxiety and paranoia; combined with a NARM therapist to help me heal developmental and shock trauma, yoga, holotropic Breathwork and a loving stable romantic relationship. And a lot of grace.
No meds, no longer a prisoner, and my life is vibrant and alive and the past feels like nothing more than a straight jacket I wriggled out of.
The often unspoken truth is that Trauma (developmental, shock, generational) underpins most all mental health issues (save issues of malnutrition, poisoning,tumors and TBI).
This is on the radar of few practioners who instead offer very limited tools to suppress symptoms.
And because mental health is actually a context, folks typically are surrounded by others who don’t have a very deep capacity to honor our expeirences and would rather try to “cheer us up” or change what we feel. The actual need is to have people who help us feel more of what we feel (that leads to deeper relief).
The Suicidal Impulse is a an impulse for the pain of our default mode network to stop. When we have unprocessed traumas, we are in a state of fight or flight and this activation is painful. It also leads to addiction.
Ego (default mode network) death and rebirth is possible without killing the body. It requires a safe context to release the old trauma and form new pathways in the incresed plasticity.
Know that there are actual solutions, it’s not your fault, and there are people here to help — but you will need to take responsibility for healing this as our current society is doing a terrible job thus far.
Holotropic Breathwork gets at the same mechanism of action, albeit a more manual process, and is legal everywhere.
Email me if you’d like to talk more.
A@175g.com
I read Kitchen Confidential when it came out. A hge fan and followed him ever since.
Sympathy goes out to his young daughter and his friends and family.