Ask HN: I'm 40 this year, and have depression. Any words of wisdom?

95 points by petecooper ↗ HN
I read comments and stories here most days, occasionally comment on or submit things, and hold HN in high regard for the variety and quality of discourse.

I'm 40 this year and as a milestone birthday it has me ruminating on how to steer my life in the coming few years. At 20, I was a technical support manager with 20+ staff. At 25, I was travelling the world as a technical trainer and event speaker. At 30, I was self-employed with a good income from podcasting. At 35, I was divorced and had to start from scratch. For nearly 5 years, things in my life have been a lot harder to do achieve than they should be. At 40, I'm at a crossroads with a metaphorical blank canvas. I want to be more content with life at 45, 50 and 60.

My job (technical consultant, proactive and reactive) keeps the roof over my head, but I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning to do it. My motivation is at an ebb. I don't exercise enough, but I'm starting over with that. I've started intermittent fasting for mental clarity and that seems to be helping -- and this Ask HN post wouldn't have happened without it.

I have anhedonia, but I've accepted that when I find something fun that'll go away. It's a symptom of the low-level depression that comes and goes, and the best medicine I've found for me is fresh air and exercise. This should not be considered a cry for help, it's something I have a rational control of, most of the time.

And so, I Ask HN: I'm 40 this year, and mentally damaged -- any words of wisdom?

Thanks very much for reading.

106 comments

[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 169 ms ] thread
You were happy at different jobs and in a relationship.

Could you replicate similar in a 5 and 10 year plan?

Since it sounds like you're at a point where you realise you need to do something, do it now because it's not going to get any easier the longer you leave it.
Genuinely happy youve reached out to a community to help. First off Ill say that you’ll probably get a ton of different answers but nobody can really understand your motivation, your “blocks”, what you think the issues are, etc in a post. That kind of thing takes some work and time with a really good counselor/ therapist.

Id really suggest finding someone. Dont go for fancy titles, just look around your area and start coming up with some criteria. Would you feel more comfortable with a male or female? Phd and brainey or soul searching? Meet with 5 people. They should all offer free 30min sessions for you to at least see if you’ll click

Go with your instincts and trust them.

And please, keep up with the exercise.

If you haven't had a regular therapist and start looking, realize that it usually takes a few visits with you mostly talking to establish enough history in order for them to start sorting you out. If you don't start clicking with them in 5-6 sessions or so, look elsewhere.
I have no words of wisdom. I have PTSD from something that happened to me, but I'm in a similar situation. All I can do is say you aren't alone, and I wish you the very best.
Consider going back to school. I have a feeling you entered the workforce too early. It might give you a new perspective on things, and open a path to a completely different career.
Life is relationships. Put most of your work into those and your mood should improve.
I've found meaningful work to be far more beneficial to my mood. I don't control what other people do and many a times their illogical decisions and the ensuing drama are not a pleasant experience.
Find better people? I know it's easier said than done.
I don't know about most of your work. That's time not spent on creative pursuits, usually (there are exceptions to this) and relationships can drain you in a different way. I tend to get a lot more out of creative pursuits, personally. But both are good.
Finding the right people to pursue creative ambitions with > doing it on your own
If you can find those people and keep those people, yeah. I've found those tend to fall apart over time, though, have creative differences, etc. Some of my more interesting works have been in collaboration with others, though.

I've had better luck with finding people where you work on your own thing, but at the same time/location, and sometimes bounce some ideas their direction to get their thoughts on things.

People don't put the same meaning behind "mentally damaged". Some people are really mentally damaged. You don't sound mentally damaged to me.
He said he has anhedonia.
Mentally scratched and dented, maybe. Strip the old finish, sand it down a bit, and refinish, and that brain will look just like new.

OP is probably old enough now to accept that everyone eventually dies and becomes forgotten, and it's best to do things for yourself in the present, instead of fueling some invented myth of your own future importance. "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."

Your brain is just dumping different quantities of different chemicals all over itself, and it's making you think you've gone crazy, just because it's different from what you remember from when you were younger. Well, you haven't gone crazy. The same thing happens to a lot of people. You get to a certain age, and your kids become more independent, your parents die, your pets die, your career hits a plateau, and maybe your spouse has some of the same stresses and blames you in some way for them, and that becomes yet another stress. Exercise and diet help balance your brain chemicals, but then again so do prescription drugs, herbal remedies, and recreational drugs. Some people resort to religion or psychedelics or both. Some people start a second batch of kids or adopt or get several cats. Some start to write books or music, or create visual art. Some splurge on luxury goods. There are a lot of ways to try to get back to feeling "normal" again; some actually work, and some are just placebo.

Ultimately, the common factor is that all these people realize that they are mortal, and their time is running out at the rate of one day of life per day on the calendar. They're afraid they're wasting it. But no matter what you do, you're going to die, and then everyone who cared about you or hated you will also die, and it may well be that your greatest accomplishment will be to spend your entire lifetime just propping up a trade economy with tasks that have little meaning when considered individually. But maybe you and the 7 billion other people also doing existentially meaningless grunt work manage to support themselves for species survival, and also collectively put together a colonization mission somewhere other than Earth, and you contributed more than a 7-billionth share of that accomplishment. Hooray for humanity; hooray for you!

If you can't find meaning in your life, just make one up. If it's a bad one, it will be forgotten; if it's a good one, it too will be forgotten. Your memory might last 2 years, or 2000 years, but it won't be you--you will be dead and gone. The important thing is that your chosen meaning motivates you to continue living your life, even when you have become genetically useless to the species and so many of your former peers seem to have gained more social status than you in the same amount of time. You don't need to be great and influential. Just being is enough, and you can be whatever you want to be, instead of someone else's child, or someone else's parent, or someone else's spouse, or someone else's employee.

First, stop thinking of yourself as mentally damaged. You're normal. If by the time you're 30-40 and you haven't realized that all new things that you encounter will eventually go away, then you're mentally damaged. It's a normal transition from shortsighted childishness to farsighted maturity.

You're in the prime of your life. You're at a stage where you have skills and experience to do lots of things and make decent money. Your job may be boring as hell, but view your job as a tool. It something that gives you the means to do what you want.

That is the hard part, figuring out what you want. Ultimately contentment comes from within but it's easier to have with the correct external forces supporting you. Things at this point in your life should be easier to achieve, not because they are in fact easier because often time they are more difficult tasks, but because you have years of experience knowing that you can overcome any obstacle placed in your path.

I'm 45 and can relate to much of what you've said. I wish I had time to write more, but you really are in your prime. Do want you need to do so you can do what you want to do. Those two things should be very balanced at this point in your life, whereas when you're younger you're always doing the needs and you never have time to think about your wants.

> First, stop thinking of yourself as mentally damaged. You're normal

I think it's unhelpful to assert things like that when we don't have enough information for making definitive statements. Perhaps they do have some genuine and serious issues? We can't know just from the description given. If they do then acting like they don't isn't very helpful.

Like many of the other commenters, my point was that labeling yourself as broken and assuming the victim mindset is what's unhelpful.

Everyone has issues, literally everyone and understanding that it's normal and not what defines you is what's important. This allows you to acknowledge, embrace, and seek help if needed.

But you don't know this person's history or current state! You are just assuming it is mere labelling.

You're also assuming that if someone says they are mentally broken they are taking a victim mindset. If someone says they have 20 broken bones and cannot walk is that taking a victim mindset, or might it just be an objectively description independent of their mindset?

Just because everyone has issues does not mean that everyone has the same magnitude of issues. Some people really do have it far worse than others.

Sometimes it is just the perception that they have it worse than others, or worse than where they would rather be. This is all that matters really.
That's not an excuse for saying they're normal and therefore denying what they might actually be going through.

I find it amazing the double standards when it comes to physical vs mental problems. No one asserts to a quadriplegic that their physical circumstances are "normal". No one treats a quadriplegic who says they're quadriplegic as, because of saying this, having an attitude problem.

I wasn't saying that therefore they don't have mental problems, I was saying that due to this, therefore they do. For reference, I am going through something similar that to an outsider they would see something that looked like a wonderfully fortuitous event, but my personal experience of it pushed me into a deep depression.
> I wasn't saying that therefore they don't have mental problems, I was saying that due to this, therefore they do.

I don't understand what you're saying -- what does the "this" refer to?

I'm also a bit unclear on where your coming from, because my comment about calling someone normal is referring to someone else's statement, not yours.

Obviously the original poster seems to agree with the many people advising not to take the victim mindset as the title has been changed. Describing yourself as "damaged" is the victim label word choice, not an objective medical mental state term. Only later was it mentioned as anhedonia. The damaged description has been changed to depression to describe a condition not a label. No where did I suggest that they should just "get over" depression or their anhedonia. It's that they should not allow those things to define them as damaged.

I can't tell if you're intentionally misunderstanding or if you really don't get the difference. To compare a literal medical condition (20 broken bones) with a non-medical label (mentally damaged) seems as it could be either.

Any perceived double standards on mental vs physical care is only in your head. Proper labeling of any condition for both the doctor and the patient is critical. If you suffer massive trama (such as your broken bones) and allow the label of cripple to define you, that's what you'll be.

It is normal for everyone in life to encounter challenges. Be they physical or mental. To have a view that your physical or mental condition is special or somehow makes you not normal does a great disservice to yourself.

You seem very talented at reading words that do not exist and telling people they assume things when most everything you've written is an assumption. It may be time to look up "objective" vs "subjective".

It's not helpful to the discussion to put words in people's mouth.

I'm was talking about a comment made before any of those changes, where that comment was making assumptions. I'm also saying that you can't assume that what is there in the OPs post or comments tells the full story.

You don't seem to understand that someone can actually be in a severely bad mental state (as if a label being "non-medical" somehow means such a state cannot exist). You are assuming that no claims of such can be objectively accurate -- that they can only be allowing oneself to be defined in a certain way, and can only be expressions of mindset or attitude.

(comment deleted)
>my point was that labeling yourself as broken and assuming the victim mindset is what's unhelpful.

For clarity, and for my own benefit of writing it down -- I don't have a victim mentality, at least there's no perception of one. I'm certainly not out to blame anyone or create drama.

The background anhedonia/depression has normalised it, certainly -- my circle of friends is small and carefully selected, so I don't have many yardsticks to measure against -- but I like to think I'm glass half-full, most of the time.

Perfect normality is one of the stranger outliers humanity exhibits.
Thank you. I read your reply 5 or so hours ago and had to go to a meeting, hence my delay in reply. I've re-read it another three times.

My assertion of mental damage is was perhaps badly phrased. Yes, it's a sliding scale, and the more people I meet, the more I understand most people have their demons…some will admit to them, others won't. Not wanting to backpedal, but my choice of words wasn't ideal

Also, I noticed someone (not me) had changed the title to "[…] and have anhedonia.", and currently it's "[…] and have depression." I'm fine with either, both or all three, but clearly I've tripped a filter and someone's had to step in.

Semantics aside, I really appreciate your reply - thank you very much.

Have you tried a little meditation to help with some symptoms? I recommend this. Sit in a slightly dark room, be comfortable. Close your eyes, relax & take no thought (try it's hard). Do that for 15-30 minutes. Do this at least once a week, more the better. This will help you focus.

Peace and love on your journey. JTR

Psychotherapy, meditation and community.
> I'm 40 this year and as a milestone birthday

It's only a milestone if you make it a milestone. You don't have to participate in these made up events if you don't want to.

I'd recommend the book "a guide to the good life" by William Irvine. It may help you transform your "anhedonia" from something negative to something positive.

Do you know what you want to do in the future, or what changes you want to make?

If you want, could you elaborate on the 'mental damage' you mention?

I think answers to questions like these would help people provide advice.

This is what I realized; no matter how much you love your work/profession when you started out, it's impossible to keep that flame of curiosity and interest after 15-20 years of work. You need to get away from it frequently to rekindle that flame. Find hobbies that have nothing to do with technology or computers or programming like playing instruments, hiking, running, knitting or whatever else that interests you.
As others have stated, the biggest thing is to stop beating yourself up - stop calling yourself damaged.

Also, you need to start exercising - it is the only thing for me personally that will keep "the darkness" at bay. The research and neurobiology behind exercise being an effective modulator of mood is all solid.

Further, I recommend you listen to Jocko Podcast [1] - by Jocko Willink, a retired Navy SEAL commander, he does some great interviews with guys like Col. Bill Reeder, who spent several years in a POW camp.

Think about guys like John Mccain, who spent 6 years being tortured, neglected and beaten day in and day out -- and it really starts to put things in perspective, because he put ALL of that trauma aside and went on to lead a fairly remarkable career, and raise a family etc.

1 - http://jockopodcast.com/2017/02/22/63-through-the-valley-my-...

I listen to Jocko too- It's an excellent podcast! If you like Jocko, then you'll probably like Jordan Peterson too. His audiobook "12 rules for life" on audible is great because he narrates it.
There’s going to be some fulfilment from having a great career but none of the funerals I’ve been to have any mention about career. It was always about hobbies and friends and family.

“Work to live, not live to work”

Make sure you are getting B-vitamins.
I've skipped off of the surface of mid-life crisis for a few years, wondering often how to find meaning in life. The only advice I have is to seek happiness from within, whatever that means for you. You're unlikely to 'turn the corner' seeking external fulfillment. For me, I have to make/create things in order to be happy. That can be hard to fit into life, but now that I've figured out that I need it, I try to build time into my schedule.
That you're seeking contentment over happiness says to me that you're wise - and without knowing your particular details, I would generally recommend starting a family.

For me, seeing my children grown in love provides me with the most contentment I've ever had.

Focus on gratitude.

Write a list of what you are thankful for.

Repeat often - at least weekly, best daily.

you had it too good when young so much so you don't appreciate your current life. you're a technical consultant. much better than a code monkey. you should be proud. but when you came from manager and events speaker, that kind of changes things.
It's hard to get good advice about something like this over the internet. Consider talking to a capable therapist or life coach or the like.
It sounds like you are doing what all of have to. I am just over 40, and I have had a similar set of experiences. Getting back on the horse is the cure. Try going out on a date. My brother, a few years older, had it worse than I did in some ways, and is just starting to date again and it took him a while but he's happy he's met someone similar to him in life now.

Compare this with a friend who (late 30s) complains about being lonely but won't ask a woman out that he likes. It hits a point where you need to just dive in and face everything. But, by the way you wrote your post here, it seems like you are doing that. Keep going, you won't feel better until you make a breakthrough, but you won't make a breakthrough if you give up.

Just trust that steady forward progress makes results. I hope you do well. I think many of us techies had rousing younger years and some have a harder time adjusting to slowing down or changing our perspective when life slows down around us.

full time engine mechanic here. ASE certified and everything...ive been doing it for 15 years. Some days are worse than others, like when im coming back from a 3 day weekend full of cadillac margaritas and over-grilled burgers...but nothing like what you describe.

When I think 'mentally damaged' im picturing someone who sticks their hand in a running engine to 'feel if the belts are moving ok.' You're doing pretty good from what I can tell, but ever since I started checking out HN ive seen quite a few people in tech that feel the same way you do.

Is it offices that do this? nobody I know in my office ever seems really happy in the morning. seems like sitting around all day staring at a computer might start to eat away at a mans soul.

If money isnt an issue, I'd suggest spending time learning a trade as a hobby or maybe more. maybe pick up a shift changing oil at a local shop, and see how that grabs you. Im not saying its the easiest thing in the world, but the job is pretty social and even though your shoulders and arms ache after the first day, you never feel like you arent doing something useful.

Religion/spirituality is a great asset, especially as we get older.