Ask HN: Best robust laptop for everyday software development
Hi HN, I've been a long term user of both Thinkpads and Macbooks. Back in the old days I loved to work on Thinkpads and loved their robustness. I'm owning a X1 Carbon and have to say that the quality is rather disappointing to me, display broke already presumably from lots of traveling. Macbook is okay, but for running and developing on Linux not very optimal. The keyboard on a Thinkpad is also nicer to use (imho). I moan that we don't have the old days where Thinkpads used to be what they stand for, that is, being robust laptops for everyday development. Any experience / recommendation with rugged laptops (e.g. the rugged Latitude)? If you were to buy a new (robust) laptop to work with and travel often, what would it be?
97 comments
[ 4.7 ms ] story [ 176 ms ] threadMan, back in the days of the Palm, there were better portable keyboards than now. I wish someone made the exact same design but made to work with bluetooth or at least usb.
https://www.surplusandparts.com/images/PALM-PORTABLE-KEYBOAR...
https://regmedia.co.uk/2012/08/03/palm.jpg
OMG. There are adapters for this?
https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/palmkeyboard...
My only complaints stem from the fact that, when using linux, there are inevitably things that don't work as smoothly as they do on OSX, e.g., syncing with google drive.
- Start to code. - Find weird quirk (laptop keeps typing multiple letters, screen resolution doesn't match up, random lag). - Research weird quirk to see if I can fix it. - Forget why I was even on my computer.
This is what you're paying extra for when you buy a mac. Make no mistake.
Not that Apple doesn't have issues, but they do tend to be on the low side. When they do have them, they are usually good about fixing it, as well.
The keyboard thing is disappointing but it sounds like they flew too close to the sun and are working on it.
The other big one in recent memory are the iPhone 6's bending. The real issue was that they didn't have a good company-wide policy for stores to follow, so it was often down to how nice the manager of the store felt that day.
this made me wonder if one can pay to get faster service from apple.
this is in amsterdam (NL). btw, once you get through, they are helpful and the experience is positive. i suppose they haven't scaled support with their sales/problems.
work continues with an x220 (i forgot what a good keyboard feels like!).
As a word of caution, I went down the MBP route myself and was recently caught with the dust under the keyboard membrane problem. You probably aren't accurately evaluating how annoying it is to randomly lose your laptop for a few weeks while they repair the keyboard. I certainly was not.
It did not feel like a problem caused by dust. Perhaps it was due to the small tolerances in the keyboard mechanism.
The B key would only work with a very firm press.
Because the laptop was fairly new, I assumed the problem was caused by a manufacturing defect with the frame. The problem was typically worse when the laptop was cold vs. hot.
If the problem is caused by dust (which I find hard to believe due to my issue after only 4 months of ownership) the problem must only need a small obstruction in the right place to cause a key to fail.
When the key failure happens, duster does not seem to help at all.
After the replacement, I have had no other failures. It's sad that a wonderful machine can be brought down with this terrible issue.
On a side note, I am very happy with the computer overall. The four thunderbolt 3 ports allow me to run my entire setup over one connection. I run an external RX 580 in an Akitio Node Pro to 2 4k monitors. MacOS UI design in my opinion feels clean compared to Windows currently and application support is fantastic compared to ten years ago!
Just thought I would offer my insight :)
I can't really comment on how I was handling mine vs what the OP does to their laptops.. but mine held up fine for ~4.5 years in near-daily use (work machine, incl. some personal and travel use) with just a little crack at the side. After 4.5 years I had to replace the screen though. And I'm on the third battery now, so overall "replacement parts" cost was like 80 (screen) + 1x 70 (big battery) + 1x 40 (small battery).
I have run OpenBSD, Windows, and various Linux distributions on it without a hitch. Full driver support is the norm since they use very standard parts.
I fit three drives in mine and the keyboard is excellent for a laptop.
If fixing/supporting/configuring your own hardware is important to you, then Thinkpads are outstanding. They're easy to work on, powerful, durable, and exactly what a laptop should be.
I even run two configurations because the base laptop was so cheap (~$200 USD)... one is a 4 core i7 with discrete graphics for power, and the other is a 2 core i7 with Intel HD for battery.
At work I use HP 15u g3, which is also mediocre imo.
To be honest I just prefer desktop with a mechanical keyboard. Having 5Ghz CPU really helps.
I have not use latitude in a while, but dealing with dell is usually terrible. However, the on-site service is good.
Apple should make a MacBook Pro SE; old form, updated internals.
I see a lot of people like the ThinkPads and I'm sure they are great, but the secret sauce is not just the machine, but the OS, and macOS is still glorious (it's a UNIX desktop OS!)
I'm not going to tell anyone they must use a Mac, but generally if I see a room full of developers, 90% of them will have Macs. Surely that says something.
Same thing with students. Maybe it's different in other countries, but I think this is the norm in both the US and Europe at the very least.
I did not use Mac yet and would like to try it someday. But I know a quite profane proverb for this thinking: "eat shit, ten million fly cannot be wrong"
I have never seen a developer with Mac in my life - only managers. Developers use highest grade of ThinkPads Dells and HP so consider this to be more of a cultural thing around your country/part of world.
All of the machines have Linux. The HP Workbooks/zbooks have been decent for work.
* Dual GPU support, several configurations that I've tried cause the system to hang. For now I'm using nvidia all the time, which drains the battery.
* Special keys for things like brightness and sound level do not work.
* Every couple of restarts the sound is broken (unbearable noise while playing).
I'm sure all this issues are fixable with enough time, which unfortunately I don't have (this is not my main development machine, I still use desktop for most of the work). I was just surprised that in 2018 a shinny laptop can work so poorly with Linux.
Brightness works for me. Dual GPU: I only have the intel graphics. Usually Dual GPU requires optimus.
I also have a t460s (current version is the t480s) which is also pretty decent and went through a ton of travel with no issues.
One thing I dislike about it is when I carry it in my backpack the keyboard keys seem to press on the screen, which would cause it to wear. To protect against it I'm keeping a microfibre cloth sandwiched in there when I carry it around.
[1] https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-envy-x360-15z-touch-laptop...
[2] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198715
Somehow hate Macs!
I also have a T410 Thinkpad running linux and while the screen sucks, its a tank and still runs great. Super repairable too.
Gonna sound like an old guy here but they truly don't make em like they used to. If you are looking for true durability, might be that getting something a few years old is just the ticket.
They're underpowered, but if you're just SSHing into a remote box it's a good choice.
I feel like this concept doesn't get enough attention. You'll never get a laptop (that you actually want to carry) that has as much power as a server in a rack somewhere. Thinking of the laptop as an ephemeral mobile thin client rather than an entire workstation lets you focus on finding a laptop that's comfortable to type on and not a pain to carry. Trying to combine all of those requirements with a lot of computing power is much more difficult and expensive.
I second the earlier thinkpad X series suggestion. My x201 was less than $200, has fantastic driver support, and you can beat the snot out of them. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thinkpad+x201+c...
comparison to my T470p (which sadly is not an i7): http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-3520M-vs-...
You probably don’t even need to set up X-Windows on the GNU/Linux guest. You can just run it headless and ssh in from a terminal on the macOS host.