We did have yellow pens in Germany, but thinking back on it, the forest green of Faber-Castell [0] was the color I would associate with pencils the most.
The occassional ones were red and black, I think those were more likely to be 'B' or '2B' ones, but it's been longer than I can remeber since I used such a pencil.
Dutch/limburg here, very rare to see those. I think mine were usually green (a brighter shade than the ones linked in a sibling thread), but not exclusively. We also had uncoloured and black for example.
Across the water in Scotland, the most common pencils in school were black and yellow striped -- the Staedtler Noris, back then made in Wales and stamped "Made in Great Britain". These were the ones the school provided and also the ones parents bought. Still a great pencil today, but no longer made in the UK.
High-quality ones, used by a couple of artists and a draughtsman my parents knew, were blue: Staedtler Mars Lumographs, again made then in the UK, but now only made in Germany. Still an even better pencil than the Noris.
I remember Berol "Handwriting" pens, red with a white nib that produced blue ink, but never liked them or used them much. Berol had colouring pencils sewn up when I was in school.
Berol were kind of the British Sharpie, in some respects. Not exactly the same product but similarly ubiquitous. They were made in King’s Lynn, Norfolk, I think.
Across yet another pond, in Norway, my childhood school pencils were Norises in primary whereas in secondary we got Lumographs.
I still can vividly recall the sense of awe whenever I entered the storage room in which the school kept all consumables - box upon box of pencils, erasers, rulers, notebooks...
Somewhat of a writing fetishist to this day - I have a box of Lumographs in the office for field notes, whereas meeting notes and such are mostly done with a fountain pen.
My childhood pencils are green: Evolution 650 France HB/no2 Conté (Bic) pencils[1]
These are virtually unknown in the US, but they are fantastic. The best part is the synthetic material they use for casing instead of wood. It is a joy to sharpen (the reviewer mentions a synthetic smell to go with it, but I never recalled there being any).
A quick search suggests pencils, pens etc are still provided for the youngest children. Paper, exercise books and textbooks are provided for all of school.
I think the average 7 year old has their own pencils and pens. My mum was a teacher in a secondary school in a poor area; she always had spare pencils and pens for any child without one — which if it was frequent, was probably a small hint that home life might not be great for that child.
The wider area was of average wealth, and the school bought the pencils my mum gave out. I think, in some areas with particularly underfunded schools, teachers are known to spend their own money on things the poorest children need.
In my mind, Faber-Castell will forever be the ultimate pencil. I think yellow pencils are a staple of American culture but in my mind pencils are green...
Staedller, the most stable graphite lead pencil brand across Asia (not colored pencils) were black and yellow striped hexagonal, and of wonderful quality (iirc, better than Faber Castell for art pencils).
I suppose it's quite easy to monopolise the visual imagination of one child. I picture pencils as black, because someone once gave me a nice mixed tin of Caran d'Ache pencils which were all matte black, and I used them endlessly to do drawings of 16x16 sprites and 8x8 fonts on graph paper.
Totally off-topic but I just realized as I read that that it sounded like the Russian word for pencil: карандаш (karandash)
So I thought, aha, it's like with Xerox -- the Russians took the name of the company that makes the item and named all the items of that type after the company's name.
But it actually is even more interesting. The name of the company was taken from a French satirist who created his pseudonym after the Russian name for pencil.
And then, later, a Swiss company that made pencils used the name of the French satirist's pseudonym as their name.
Agreed, this must be a (North)American thing rather than a Western thing. I grew up in Spanish-speaking Western country and yellow was not the most common pencil color of my childhood.
I use Faber Castell pencils in 3H and 4H in my workshop, they're quite good. Sharpen to a very fine point easily that lasts a while when marking metal or wood surfaces.
Or cadmium is also a yellow pigment. I do remember chewing on my pencils. Maybe I should get a lead blood test. Or maybe I shouldn't cause it's too late anyway...
It's not even Western, from my experience it's just the US. In Australia, I don't think I'd ever seen a yellow pencil, other than one that came in a set of coloured pencils for art. I hadn't realised it was the norm in the US until relatively recently.
Definitely not just US. I'm from Lithuania and these were the pencils we all used [0]. That was around 1992 and later, so could have been a relic from Soviets.
Only in later years green ones appeared and yellow with black stripes.
I spent a year in the baltics, got homeschooled while there. The pencils were a tealish green and tasted much worse than your garden variety Dixon, but wrote much better.
It was probably an H grade rather than HB. Pencils in the US stores often come out smudgy to me ever since then...
Australian here too - I do remember occasionally using yellow US-style pencils but I think they were usually crappy knock-offs from cheap shops because the wood was always low quality, the graphite broke all the time and the rubbers (erasers) on the top were always useless and left black marks everywhere.
The standard pencil we had at school was just plain red with a straight cut top so you could see the graphite - I think a staedtler HB (bit like [1] but didn’t have the ‘minerva’ brand name on it). A lot of automatically marked tests needed 2B pencils to mark the answer sheet and we almost always used the red and black striped ones like your link.
American that just recently learned about Indian pencils- they're so much better than pencils we have here! Though I'm partial to the Apsara Regal Gold instead of the traditional black and red Nataraj
Without the clickbait title, you might have missed the beautiful pop-up that obscures the entire window requesting a subscription.
Nowadays, every page seems to have one of those or the cookie disclaimer. Advertisers and idiotic laws are close to reaching their goal of definitely ruining web experience.
In China, yellow had long been tied to royalty... Eventually, the shade came to represent happiness, glory, and wisdom.
Was this true outside of China too? Did buyers in the western world really associate the color with Chinese Royalty? Or did they just like the bright color?
Disclaimer: pure speculation follows. Ignorance abounds.
In that era, I believe there was an obsessive interest in all things "Oriental". China and Japan were both still very mysterious, with Japan having been forced to open up in the 2nd half of the 19th century, and China similarly unwillingly thrust onto the world stage by the Opium Wars in the same timeframe.
So, it wouldn't surprise me that a company would be able to leverage the interest in China via marketing. Maybe people didn't know of the association with yellow before the marketing, but I'd bet they did after.
Fark yeah. I'd give real money to get my 9th grade book bag back! HP 11C scientific calculator, drafting supplies including a bunch of mechanical pencils and fancy erasers, and a copy of the HHGTTG. Pure nostalgia right there.
I remember all the pencils being yellow in school (in California), some at home being red and maybe also some blue ones, and then in Germany of course a lot of green.
These days the general-purpose pencils I occasionally use are no "color" at all:
Yes, yellow were the pencils of my childhood. But finally I learned what Koh-i-noor stands for, never bothered to Czech. Pun intended :) CZ citizen here.
Probably the most common colour in New Zealand is that red and black stripe as well, but usually made by Staedtler[0]. Some other brands also copy the same style[1].
Seems like we need another article on Why Pencils Are Red And Black.
This article already addressed it: red and black paints are used to cover up imperfections in the less-than-high-quality wood being used .. red and black both being inexpensive paints.
I live in the UK and always since I can remember (27yrs) pencils have always been red or the red/yellow and black striped ones. In fact the only yellow ones I remeber seeing have always been the packs of very cheap poor quality ones.
Same in Switzerland. The good default pencil was the red one by Caran d'Ache. The yellow ones (with an eraser on top) where super cheap and would always break or get dull very fast.
Apparently, several types exist. The high-end ones are the blue/black I was describing (Staedtler Mars Lumograph), while the black/yellow ones (Staedtler Noris) are the most common ones.
So the story is, as it is for nearly every physical artifact in my life, "Because people are easily lured by bright objects and catchy marketing into associating quality with anything but the quality of the goods."
I'm reminded of User Testing at Powerset. When we did unbranded search testing of Wikipedia, late-stage Powerset usually won most search comparisons by users. But if we branded the search results against Google, we lost. At first we thought this was an artifact of the test data, but then we ran an experiment where we randomly assigned a brand to our search results and asked users to rank them. Same GvP comparison. The Google branding won. We took it a step further: sometimes random recall searches crept in (there aas essentially no logic to what we put in front of the users other than keyword match). If those got branded "Google", sometimes they still won just by the power of brand association, even against Powerset's sophisticated NL-powered search.
I thought this story was going in a different direction, where you had replaced Powerset's logo with one having bright colors, and then it started winning.
Well the google logo is a bright colorful child's toy, as opposed to ... well... look it up. Powerset has branding so bad I didn't wanna see it either.
This reminds me of a post on HN where someone put a picture of a Duck on a wireless charger, giving it a brand identity and the charger was selling like crazy. Users identified with that brand over a charger that was brandless.
O'Reilly books are a fantastic example of this that goes beyond something as simple as the name of the company/product being an animal (Penguin, Puma, Jaguar) -- any time you see a book with that cover with that style of animal, you know who published it.
I mean, at the time certainly Google was beating the breaks off Yahoo. But for wikipedia, Powerset was doing things that at the time were unimaginable. We were reliably disambiguating cases like "who did Dick Cheney shoot" from "who shot Dick Cheney" and showing those off.
So while I agree folks should have a positive vibe with the brand, it was kinda overwhelming when we put random recall results under a google logo and lost to them.
> So the story is, as it is for nearly every physical artifact in my life, "Because people are easily lured by bright objects and catchy marketing into associating quality with anything but the quality of the goods."
Bright? According to the article, the pencils were painted yellow to symbolize China, because their graphite was sourced from Siberia. (Seems like a stretch, but that's what it says...)
>Manufacturers usually painted their pencils if they were looking to cover up imperfections in the wood. Accordingly, typical paint colors were dark: purple, red, maroon, or black.
But Hardtmuth was looking for a way to advertise the caliber of its graphite rather than its wood.
Bright color to stand out, as opposed to dark colors hiding imperfections. Another stretch, perhaps.
It's an adjective. An adjective not uncommonly associated with the hues in question. It's also not uncommon as a turn of phrase in english to say, "people are distracted by the newest bright and shiny object." So I took the opportunity.
Is this... a real question? This seems like a fake question.
It's not a fake question, it's question your assertion (which comes with no citation) regarding the origin of the colour yellow used in pencils, which contradicts the origin story described in the article.
116 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 195 ms ] threadMaybe a Belgian / Netherlands thing? Or perhaps just me :)
[0] https://www.faber-castell.com/products/GraphitepencilCastell...
The occassional ones were red and black, I think those were more likely to be 'B' or '2B' ones, but it's been longer than I can remeber since I used such a pencil.
Of course, my schools didn't necessarily buy the highest quality pencils for the children, and they probably all came from the same supplier.
The high-quality ones, which a relative who was a draughtsman used, were dark green [1]
[1] https://www.ebay.ie/itm/12-x-Berol-Venus-H-Fine-Quality-Writ...
High-quality ones, used by a couple of artists and a draughtsman my parents knew, were blue: Staedtler Mars Lumographs, again made then in the UK, but now only made in Germany. Still an even better pencil than the Noris.
I remember Berol "Handwriting" pens, red with a white nib that produced blue ink, but never liked them or used them much. Berol had colouring pencils sewn up when I was in school.
I still can vividly recall the sense of awe whenever I entered the storage room in which the school kept all consumables - box upon box of pencils, erasers, rulers, notebooks...
Somewhat of a writing fetishist to this day - I have a box of Lumographs in the office for field notes, whereas meeting notes and such are mostly done with a fountain pen.
These are virtually unknown in the US, but they are fantastic. The best part is the synthetic material they use for casing instead of wood. It is a joy to sharpen (the reviewer mentions a synthetic smell to go with it, but I never recalled there being any).
[1]http://www.penciltalk.org/2006/03/conte-evolution-wood-free-...
if your schools are buying pencils for the students, you're one up over my childhood in canada.
I think the average 7 year old has their own pencils and pens. My mum was a teacher in a secondary school in a poor area; she always had spare pencils and pens for any child without one — which if it was frequent, was probably a small hint that home life might not be great for that child.
The wider area was of average wealth, and the school bought the pencils my mum gave out. I think, in some areas with particularly underfunded schools, teachers are known to spend their own money on things the poorest children need.
(I grew up in England.)
http://www.fabercastell.com/products/pencils/GraphitepencilC...
But I didn't get just yellow ones. I had many different colors and patterns.
I do instinctively recognize yellow as "the color of pencils" but it's from so many cartoon graphics of them, not because they were all that color.
[1]: https://i.imgur.com/AMbEQzT.jpg
Totally off-topic but I just realized as I read that that it sounded like the Russian word for pencil: карандаш (karandash)
So I thought, aha, it's like with Xerox -- the Russians took the name of the company that makes the item and named all the items of that type after the company's name.
But it actually is even more interesting. The name of the company was taken from a French satirist who created his pseudonym after the Russian name for pencil.
And then, later, a Swiss company that made pencils used the name of the French satirist's pseudonym as their name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caran_d%27Ache_(company)
Surely any time you buy a new pencil it is a spare or replacement for the pencil you already have?
Pencil meant black and red for us in India - Natraj FTW
We have these, just for example:
https://www.faber-castell.com/products/GraphitepencilGoldfab...
https://www.staedtler.com.au/en/products/pencils-accessories...
Only in later years green ones appeared and yellow with black stripes.
[0] - https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/lead-pencil-isolated-white-b...
It was probably an H grade rather than HB. Pencils in the US stores often come out smudgy to me ever since then...
Looking it up, apparently this has something to do with pencils being manufactured in early (1920s) USSR by an American entrepreneur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Hammer#Career
https://i.imgur.com/vpObXqU.jpg
Eventually the Soviet government bought the entire operation from him, and thenceforth it became this:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE...
And they probably just continued to use yellow, because why not?
The standard pencil we had at school was just plain red with a straight cut top so you could see the graphite - I think a staedtler HB (bit like [1] but didn’t have the ‘minerva’ brand name on it). A lot of automatically marked tests needed 2B pencils to mark the answer sheet and we almost always used the red and black striped ones like your link.
1. https://www.supplyme.co.nz/shop/Stationery/Pens+Pencils+Mark...
Please stop clickbait.
Nowadays, every page seems to have one of those or the cookie disclaimer. Advertisers and idiotic laws are close to reaching their goal of definitely ruining web experience.
In China, yellow had long been tied to royalty... Eventually, the shade came to represent happiness, glory, and wisdom.
Was this true outside of China too? Did buyers in the western world really associate the color with Chinese Royalty? Or did they just like the bright color?
In that era, I believe there was an obsessive interest in all things "Oriental". China and Japan were both still very mysterious, with Japan having been forced to open up in the 2nd half of the 19th century, and China similarly unwillingly thrust onto the world stage by the Opium Wars in the same timeframe.
So, it wouldn't surprise me that a company would be able to leverage the interest in China via marketing. Maybe people didn't know of the association with yellow before the marketing, but I'd bet they did after.
During some tests, some teachers just couldn't believe that HB and #2 were the same thing, so that's about the only time I wrote with painted wood.
I see they're now on Amazon for crazy high prices, so I assume they're no longer in production.
These days the general-purpose pencils I occasionally use are no "color" at all:
https://www.leadfast.org/blog/2017/8/11/generals-cedar-point...
https://cwpencils.com/collections/nataraj/products/621-hb-pe...
Seems like we need another article on Why Pencils Are Red And Black.
[0] https://i.imgur.com/AMbEQzT.jpg
[1] e.g. https://i.imgur.com/mmN943m.jpg
https://img3.doubanio.com/lpic/s9122591.jpg
Yellow ones are rare there.
But I doubt that's what they're going for with the pencils.
You can see bamboo leaves in the zoomed-in version:
http://g.search.alicdn.com/img/bao/uploaded/i4/i1/740891439/...
The overwhelming majority is black/yellow. Maybe they geo-segment.
[1]: https://i.imgur.com/AMbEQzT.jpg
I'm reminded of User Testing at Powerset. When we did unbranded search testing of Wikipedia, late-stage Powerset usually won most search comparisons by users. But if we branded the search results against Google, we lost. At first we thought this was an artifact of the test data, but then we ran an experiment where we randomly assigned a brand to our search results and asked users to rank them. Same GvP comparison. The Google branding won. We took it a step further: sometimes random recall searches crept in (there aas essentially no logic to what we put in front of the users other than keyword match). If those got branded "Google", sometimes they still won just by the power of brand association, even against Powerset's sophisticated NL-powered search.
O'Reilly books are a fantastic example of this that goes beyond something as simple as the name of the company/product being an animal (Penguin, Puma, Jaguar) -- any time you see a book with that cover with that style of animal, you know who published it.
So while I agree folks should have a positive vibe with the brand, it was kinda overwhelming when we put random recall results under a google logo and lost to them.
Bright? According to the article, the pencils were painted yellow to symbolize China, because their graphite was sourced from Siberia. (Seems like a stretch, but that's what it says...)
What does brightness have to do with it?
Bright color to stand out, as opposed to dark colors hiding imperfections. Another stretch, perhaps.
Is this... a real question? This seems like a fake question.