Well, the free storage is for your account, not your device, right?
I suppose it would be nice if you get extra free monthly storage per device you use your account with. Maybe a model where the amount of devices you have simply multiplies the free storage baseline.
Yes, it’s for your account. But as you add devices you want to back up it pretty much pushes you into a paid tier. Hence the fuming. That will be $1000 plus another $5 per month.
The iCloud pricing tiers are $0.99, $2.99, and $9.99 for 50 GB, 200 GB, and 2 TB. The latter tiers can be shared across multiple accounts. Google only recently matched this pricing. iCloud is by far the best and simplest backup system and it just works.
Photos. If you have a lot of photos they won’t fit in your Mac easily. Photos.app doesn’t work when on a NAS (cloud sync won’t go unless it’s open, and multiple users can’t access a NAS DB without issues). Apple doesn’t seem to handle family albums at all without either sharing an iCloud account or manually sending each photo to a shared album. Eww.
I’d love a way of having all users photos uploaded to a cloud then synced to my NAS, but I’ve yet to find a good solution.
Apple has long been the subject of criticism for its pricing. Usually by tech people who think that the cost of components is what drives the final price of a product. This is wrong.
There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it. If people are willing to pay the price of a product, then that is the fair price of it. Simple as that.
You can get into some game theory about the sweet spot of lower price vs volume vs profit, but Apple seems to be doing pretty well in that area already.
Very true. This is one reason I’ve stopped paying for it and I know a lot of people who have walked away from their products in the last few years. They’re too expensive and we have higher priority things we need to spend money on.
Also we’ve reached a plateau of innovation. Things were just about right circa 2011/2012. Everything else since has been quality, privacy or usability regressions disguised as innovation.
I buy stuff now because it needs replacing due to being worn out not because it gives me an advantage.
This is how I feel as well. I loved my 2012 MBP but it’s about time for an update. However, I don’t like any of the new laptops. I don’t understand why they had to screw with the keyboard so much. It is the worst thing that I have ever tried to type on. If they just upgraded the internals of the 2012 MBP but left the ports/aesthetics the same, I would buy it.
Conversely I love the new keyboards. It's fascinating how different people's experience is. May I ask you to describe your feeling? As a guess, does it feel ambiguous or inaccurate how short the keys are?
I suppose I am just used to a deeper keypress. I tried typing on one for about 10-15 minutes in the store and I just kept mistyping almost every third word. It's difficult to describe. I guess my fingers are used to needing to move further to successfully press the keys so they just overcompensate for the smaller range of motion.
Perhaps I could get used to it after awhile but I would rather not have to relearn how to use a keyboard when it is so different from the ones I use for my desktop and work machine.
> There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it.
Yeah no. Actually there are two main drivers, the one you mention (called “demand”) and the one you’re leaving out (called “supply”).
The concepts of supply and demand aren’t even a little novel or unheard of.
So it’s the interaction of people’s willingness to pay with the availability of other options or close substitutes, and the desire of firms to supply those items at a given price level.
> Price is exactly what people are willing to pay given both demand and supply.
In a theoretical competitive market. Not so much when some companies have exclusive access to parts of the supply chain, thanks to years of vertical integration and supplier financing.
Supply/demand is part of the calculation a consumer uses to determine what price they want to pay, and the final result of that calculation is the actual price they are willing to pay.
Incorrect. Only demand is determined by the consumers. Supply is determined by the willingness of those with resources to supply those resources at a given price.
You are straw-manning the original argument. GP said nothing about consumers controlling supply, just that it is part of the calculation that is used when a consumer determines a price they are willing to pay.
If you’re going to try and be a pedant, at least base your reply on the actual argument you’re responding to.
>There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it.
It's worth noting this is a neoclassical view (if we take it to mean supply and demand solely determines the price of a product) but there are other views too (Sraffian, Ricardian and Marxian, for instance, though these are more oriented on value than price). I don't think the quick answer to the question offers enough explanatory power as to why many (most?) people in the market would pay that much for it.
Also the fact that only Apple makes Apple products, as opposed to other Windows/Android computers/laptops/Phones/tablets which have multiple competitors.
I’m not trying to answer the question of “why”, just making the point that this is how things are, because much criticism leveled at Apple (and any other tech perceived as overpriced) is based on invalid assumptions of how a fair price is determined. I’ll leave it to the Economists to come up with theories on why.
I'm not sure if we should let the market have a monopoly on deciding what counts as a fair price - there are plenty of instances, though perhaps Apple isn't one, in which goods are so clearly overpriced to the detriment of consumers. Food and water in some areas, for instance. My point is that to say something is fair or unfair means that a judgement is being made, and deferring that judgement to "that's just the way it is, therefore it's fair" isn't to say you're avoid making a statement on fairness, it's to say "my view is that fairness is decided by the market price".
On the other hand: I can't go in and replace the SSD anymore on these devices, and it's highway damned robbery to charge me 200% markup [edit: it's actually just about 400% markup] on an SSD without any actual value add. It's not that people will happily pay for it; it's that they can get away with extorting it out of us because we are bought into the larger product and it won't work as well without these too-expensive upsells.
That’s the exact example I made of comparing to component costs. The individual cost doesn’t matter from a pricing standpoint. It only matters if it’s so expensive that you no longer buy it. If the whole ecosystem provides enough value for you to stay in it, then they have done their job of creating value that is worrh paying for.
But in the specific case of an SSD, it's very easy for the user to go see what it costs. I have no idea what the screens cost, or what the custom milled aluminum case costs. I'm ignorant enough about that part that they can charge me whatever they want. What I'm saying is that they're really pushing it with blatant pointless price inflation on basic stock part upgrades. This is in fact pushing me closer to not buying their devices (though they haven't pissed me off with this quite enough yet, because it's an infrequent purchase)
>not passing financial success on to its loyal customers
Companies don't pass "financial success on to its loyal customers". They pass it to their shareholders or invest it in their future production and expansion.
>If they're not careful does this sort of thing open them up to anti-trust?
No. You need a monopoly for that (and it can't be a monopoly on your own brand - e.g. "only Apple makes iOS devices") it has to be on a general product category (e.g. mobile OSes). E.g. when MS faced such issues, they had over 95% dominance on operating systems in general.
Oh, they are. On the other hand, maybe, if you keep the device long enough, it's not too bad.
Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76.
Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. As I get more employees, I'd probably look at System76 first. I appreciate their US based manufacturing goal.
I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things.
The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner.
The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight.
The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p.
Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year.
As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue.
Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP.
As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.
I've only used apple laptops since I was in high school, starting with the first release of OS X in 2001; they're long-lived enough that I've actually only owned 3 of them in that whole 17 year span. an iBook, a Powerbook, and I'm still currently using a 2012 Macbook Air.
I wince every time I buy one (with 5+ years between purchases, the ASP is quite a bit higher each time), but the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag.
Then again I think they're sort of on to us; I have always believed that the best thing to do, since the device will last a while, is to max out every spec that you can't change yourself later, like ram. These days, though, every spec is something you can't change yourself later; you end up having to take their overpriced upsell on every item if you want a competent machine. It's a real slap in the face that they charge you $400 over the base price just to get a reasonably sized ssd for example (500gb vs the base 128).
500gb ssds compatible with the older macs cost about $99. I don't think I'm getting 4x the value out of having no choice about it, but they know they can get away with such outrageous prices because we don't really have a choice about it.
> the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag.
Or does the price tag make you eek out every last fl.oz. of longevity?
Even if a <whatever> with Linux on it wouldn't last 6 years, you could probably get the same hardware for half the price and replace every 3; you'd have a time-relative higher spec laptop for more of the time as a result.
e.g. my phone cost £60 2 years ago, at the time was essentially equivalent to a 2 year old flagship, but new. I should probably replace it soon, but at the same amortised cost, an iPhone would've had to have lasted me longer than they've existed. (And the current ones are more than twice as expensive, which wouldn't bode well for its replacement!)
It's definitely true that there are cheaper devices out there, and it's not hard to get a better price per annum effective cost; I'm not saying macs are the cheapest thing out there, and I'm not maximizing for effective annual price.
What I'm saying is: I want the mac, specifically. And the fact that I know I can trust it to last 5+ years makes me less concerned about the overall premium price they charge for it.
Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.
They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it.
When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience.
Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook).
>Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.
There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be.
>What about just stop buying those things?
What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.
I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago.
I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge.
ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide.
Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.
It is quite rational for current management of Apple to monetize this goodwill, maximize share price and their bonuses because who cares about tomorrow? Or actually insider's behavior of this kind is a a leading indicator of what the future may bring.
The hard disk was a few weeks ago and the support call just last year. Pretty sure they still do that. Also they’re pushing hard on this device longevity thing, as being an environmental as well as customer satisfaction issue. Then there’s the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 for older devices.
They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.
So they must follow a "Get Right Up To The Creepy Line And Not Cross It" strategy. They'll cross as sales of iPhones drop. (I have a 6 year PC, works perfectly fine. )
> All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience
I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.
Given that most newer laptops (and phones) support charging via the same USB-PD standard (via USB-C) I don't see the reason for including yet another power adapter in the box when the average user probably already has enough of them at home.
I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.
I'm the opposite. Chargers have a usable life after which they stop working, and I'd rather not lose the free charger that comes with a new device I buy just so I can have the privilege of paying $$ for a new one in case my older one breaks. Also if you are selling your computer or giving it to someone else, are you expecting them to buy a new charger with it?
What if you are an iOS developer? You have no choice but pay or abandon all your experience you gather for years developing iOS apps and slowly start specializing in android. Maybe that's the way...one of my dev friend bought PC and focus now only on Android.
It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer.
We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality.
And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.
If you want to understand why people do not feel they have much of a choice you should listen to them. I’m sure you can make do with products that are part of less usable ecosystems or exist more disconnected from any ecosystem. But that isn’t true for everyone. Assuming it is doesn’t result in useful advice.
The software I use for my work and hobbies is only made for Mac and PC, so I’m kind of limited in that regard (unless I change my career and my hobbies).
The 'nickel and diming' is definitely there, but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200.
I guess Apple's solution is to sell old models forever, rather than design new, low to mid-range products.
>but also straight up price increase. Twelve years ago, when I was a student, I was able to buy an iBook G4 at what seemed like a very reasonable price for what you got. Now it feels like you can't get into a decent Mac for less than $1200.
Are you sure you're not misremembering a student discount vs retail? Because the lowest end 12" early 2004 iBook G4 launched for $1100, and the 14" launched for $1300. That's in 2004 money, that's around $1500/$1750 (respectively) after 12 years of inflation. And the iBook G4 was not quite on the relative level of the new MacBook Airs (which I assume is what you're comparing to with that $1200 number). Double thunderbolt 3 IO alone makes them far more versatile in higher power activities.
I mean your post is kind of interesting as an example of how people's memories work with regard to pricing over time anyway.
The iBook G4 started at $1100, and dropped to $1000 in 2004, for the 12-inch model. The CPI has inflated by almost exactly 25% over the last 12 years, so that's $1250 real dollars today. It would be nice if Apple drove prices down more, but for what it's worth today's machines are nicer in lots of ways.
You're ignoring inflation. The iBook G4 shipped in 2003, and the cheapest one (no wifi!) cost $1100. In today's dollars, that's over $1500. The entry level Apple laptop today costs only $1200, or 20% less in absolute terms.
For the lower cost, you get far better hardware (CPU, battery, screen, wifi included, etc) and software (10.14 vs 10.3, iWork included for free, good selection of free modern web browsers, etc).
If the iBook G4 seemed very reasonable, the 2018 MacBook Air should seem like a steal. It's not just better value (technology always does that), but lower absolute cost. The only thing they haven't done is drop prices faster than inflation, but that's a pretty arbitrary line.
Inflation doesn’t tell the whole story. My 12” PB was all the machine I needed when I got it. Now I need a cell phone for basic stuff like finding my way around town. And I still need a laptop for traditional PC use. They’ve added SKUs to my life and the sum total price of them is outrageous. That’s where people feel fleeced. Not to mention the new SKUs don’t actually fit the marks like they used to do.
This goes for all companies, but I’m tired of every product shipping with a USB cable. I have plenty already, it’s wasteful to keep shipping more. Further, can we all migrate to USB C, that’ll further reduce the need to include a different kind of cable with each electronic device.
I'll raise you. I once Bought a new set of headphones that came with miniUSB that plugs into a volume knob which itself plugs into my desktop via USB 2. It also came with a miniUSB to 3.5mm adapter.
Just this morning I was pulling them out of my backpack getting off the train and noticed for the first time (I've had these headphones a year) there's a discreet 3.5mm headphone jack.
You know what didn't come in the box? A 3.5mm headphone cable.
Which means if I want to plug this thing into an old iPod or my docking station at work, I'd need to bring a miniUSB cable and an adapter. Or just go buy my own 3.5mm cable.
Oh I don't know. Whenever a charging cable wears out it's quite handy to rummage in a retained product box and find a neatly packaged new one. I always find myself short of usb charger plugs too.
Apple had a good run. I'm in a twist. I don't like Windows or Android and Linux just isn't there on the desktop. I made the switch from Windows/Android around 2012-2014 and it was a relief. Now I hate all their new hardware. They have really let down their professional users. Every owner of a new Macbook has one of those flimsy and ugly port extenders hanging off the side of the machine just to get a basic set of ports, and the butterfly keyboard is god-awful. I can't type on a keyboard that hurts my fingertips.
As for the iPhone: I'd like to keep my home button with TouchID and my screen without the notch. I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks.
Apple seems to have crossed a line. They're no longer selling good products at a premium. At this point, they're basically milking their customers. I hope this backfires severely for them.
Yep, people have been repeating this same meme for a little more than half a decade and the amount of money they make and product they sell has only gone up.
I don't know, I'd agree with the OP. I like OSX, have 3 macbooks, but damn if the new ones aren't a terrible compromise - especially the keyboards and being forced into the touchbar (which is a straight up gimmick like 3d tv)
It's weird how as they've added more SKUs to their product lineup, it's become harder to find the exact product I want.
Their product lineup used to be so simple and easy to navigate, but now it's a mess, and it's opinionated just enough to push users in a particular direction.
Want a fully-loaded 15 in. MBP without a touch bar? Too bad. I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band.
They appeared to kill the Macbook Air when they dropped the latest iteration of the Macbook, only to bring back the Air last month.
Sure, these machines are all still well-built and should meet the demands of their users. But Apple's ability to communicate and ship their various product lines is getting noticeably worse, and that raises fears for the future (rightfully so.)
Because at the end of the day, we're not just buying laptops and phones, we're committing to the ecosystem that these devices grant us access to.
> I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band.
Who uses Garage Band, ever? Such a limited piece of dumbed down Logic X garbage. I go buy good software for music and delete that st but, man!, that program is like cancer—it just keeps coming back.
> I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks.
I'm also still getting by with my 7 Plus, and my hope is that next year we'll see a model sans notch that I can upgrade to. I can't imagine that Apple would have gone down this path without some plan about how to eliminate the notch in a reasonable (2-3 yr) timeframe. OTOH, we still have a camera bump, and I thought that was very un-Apple also!
Lastly, I'd point out that the 7 Plus was expensive, but it's also a high-performance/high-quality device with a longer useful life than most non-Apple phones. I've had my for 2 years already, and plan to keep it for 3. I assume I'll sell it for around $275 next year, which means the monthly cost of the device is around $17. Not bad, considering I bought it when it was the latest-and-greatest!
Linux is great on the Desktop, especially for programming. Be sure to get a computer that can run it, like a Thinkpad. My laptop has significantly better specs than a Mac that is at least $1000 more expensive, and has a much better support plan. They will drive to my home the next business day to fix anything that breaks.
T460, 24 GB RAM, i7, two batteries (over 10 hours of battery life). It was about USD $1900 including tax, shipping, and the support plan. I deleted Windows 10 and installed Ubuntu 16.04. Works great.
To each their own but finally going from a 6s (and hoping for smaller phones) I got an XS and could never see myself wanting TouchID on a phone again. Face is way faster and not impacted by clammy hands and the bezel sure isn't missed.
I'm not fully satisfied by the hardware options at the moment, same touchbar sentiment but I don't think the rest is so dire stupid crap like not including extension cables, and inflation is also a thing FWIW.
I think a really good monitor or docking/egpu box would go a long way for the laptops lack of ports. Holding on to my 2013/2015 in meantime
I still prejudge all airpod users as douchebags - same as the old Bluetooth douchebags from the blackberry days. AirPods just look like an over complication.
I tried them out, just from a functional standpoint of using them as ostensibly wireless earbuds? They do a really good job, I get the appeal behind them from a very utilitarian point of view. Just one person's own opinion.
Wouldn't ever own a pair though. I am absolutely awful at not losing earbuds, so I exclusively wear over ear phones now. Much harder to lose.
I just bought a brand new iPhone SE for about $160. It's tiny, fast, inexpensive and miles ahead of my not-that-old Samsung in terms of usability. I will probably never use its full computational capacity so there is nothing attractive about the newer, more powerful phones. It also has a 3.5mm audio port!
I agree that it is absurd to pay $800 for a phone that lacks features I want and has features I don't want. So I didn't. It's that easy.
I just bought a $160 Android One phone from China. Headphone jack, dual sim, 256GB SD, FM radio, IR blaster, tiny notch & chin with a really respectable IPS panel with great colors & saturation, receive at least the next 2 major Android versions & monthly security updates, 12 hour screen on time battery life, works fine with T-Mobile & ATT in USA, camera that would easily compete with mid-range 2018 phones with a portrait mode that actually works better than I've seen on any other phone.
Why are people buying these $1200 phones that have taken away pretty much everything?
This is all great. What are those next two major Android releases include that I need?
Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? I just dont like that they trac my location, record my conversations and inject spam into almost every “product” they got.
Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
Most of this is opinion, so I'll answer the legitimate questions.
>What are those next two major Android releases include that I need?
These are future releases, so not sure. Android 9 'Pie' should be available soon and the features included in that can be researched with your preferred search engine.
>Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone?
You can install a third party ROM if you'd like. LineageOS doesn't come with Google Play Services.
>Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
Use what you like. I personally find iOS to be terrible with ergonomics, UX, and just plain everyday features. You can't open zip/rar files, can't download MP3's, can't play m4a's, can't play .webm's, there's no file management system. I can do pretty much everything my laptop does on my $160 Android, but not on a $1400 iPhone.
This[1] is the one I bought. It is now sold out from that particular seller. It was $180, not $160 as I said before. Being on AT&T seems to give the widest array of purchase options in terms of carrier lock.
The box was sealed, serial number was valid and unused (Apple can confirm this) and the warranty is valid as well. Buyer beware, there are some sketchy sellers on Amazon but if it is "fulfilled by Amazon" I would expect no issues with a return.
To be fair, it's not just you and your Apple.
My employer pays for my phone contract - so normally every 2 years I select the shiniest thing, dripping in features.
This year.. no, just switched to a cheaper monthly contract as it felt "wasteful" upgrading just for the sake of it.
(Original Pixel XL - so not that old, but can't really thing of anything it lacks (and it has a headphone jack))
Apple publicly said they aren't going to release sales numbers going forward (take a guess why).
To retain revenue they just need to get more out of each sale - and that's ensuring somebody who comes in for an upgrade pays more than last time, sticks a few more accessories in the pack, and clicks to bump up the iCloud size
(or maybe you think they've decided they've got enough, screw the shareholders and are about to start 'giving back' to their users)
If you work for a large company and have a department that does tech support, talk to the people there about recent Apple products. In my case that made me realise that the increasing unreliability is not just anecdotal or the result of people being finicky - it appears that the last couple of years of macbook pros have had measurably more support issues than previous versions. When my 2013 Macbook Pro dies, I suspect I will not replace it with a newer machine.
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[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 178 ms ] threadI suppose it would be nice if you get extra free monthly storage per device you use your account with. Maybe a model where the amount of devices you have simply multiplies the free storage baseline.
https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice
https://www.photosync-app.com
Well, it _should_ be taking account your devices, which are also tied to your account, right?
There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it. If people are willing to pay the price of a product, then that is the fair price of it. Simple as that.
You can get into some game theory about the sweet spot of lower price vs volume vs profit, but Apple seems to be doing pretty well in that area already.
Also we’ve reached a plateau of innovation. Things were just about right circa 2011/2012. Everything else since has been quality, privacy or usability regressions disguised as innovation.
I buy stuff now because it needs replacing due to being worn out not because it gives me an advantage.
Perhaps I could get used to it after awhile but I would rather not have to relearn how to use a keyboard when it is so different from the ones I use for my desktop and work machine.
Yeah no. Actually there are two main drivers, the one you mention (called “demand”) and the one you’re leaving out (called “supply”).
The concepts of supply and demand aren’t even a little novel or unheard of.
So it’s the interaction of people’s willingness to pay with the availability of other options or close substitutes, and the desire of firms to supply those items at a given price level.
Yeah, no. What the parent said covers both demand and supply. Price is exactly what people are willing to pay given both demand and supply.
In a theoretical competitive market. Not so much when some companies have exclusive access to parts of the supply chain, thanks to years of vertical integration and supplier financing.
The actual selling price and quantity sold is determined by the interaction between supply and demand.
This concept is first day, first hour, of any discussion of economics.
We're talking about prices as verified by millions of transactions (Apple's unit sales), so that's already solved.
E.g. the actual prices they managed to sell things, not just some sticker price for unsold products.
If you’re going to try and be a pedant, at least base your reply on the actual argument you’re responding to.
It's worth noting this is a neoclassical view (if we take it to mean supply and demand solely determines the price of a product) but there are other views too (Sraffian, Ricardian and Marxian, for instance, though these are more oriented on value than price). I don't think the quick answer to the question offers enough explanatory power as to why many (most?) people in the market would pay that much for it.
Companies don't pass "financial success on to its loyal customers". They pass it to their shareholders or invest it in their future production and expansion.
>If they're not careful does this sort of thing open them up to anti-trust?
No. You need a monopoly for that (and it can't be a monopoly on your own brand - e.g. "only Apple makes iOS devices") it has to be on a general product category (e.g. mobile OSes). E.g. when MS faced such issues, they had over 95% dominance on operating systems in general.
Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76.
Maybe on the whole the price is valid.
I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things.
The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner.
The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight.
The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p.
Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year.
As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue.
Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP.
As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.
I wince every time I buy one (with 5+ years between purchases, the ASP is quite a bit higher each time), but the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag.
Then again I think they're sort of on to us; I have always believed that the best thing to do, since the device will last a while, is to max out every spec that you can't change yourself later, like ram. These days, though, every spec is something you can't change yourself later; you end up having to take their overpriced upsell on every item if you want a competent machine. It's a real slap in the face that they charge you $400 over the base price just to get a reasonably sized ssd for example (500gb vs the base 128).
500gb ssds compatible with the older macs cost about $99. I don't think I'm getting 4x the value out of having no choice about it, but they know they can get away with such outrageous prices because we don't really have a choice about it.
Or does the price tag make you eek out every last fl.oz. of longevity?
Even if a <whatever> with Linux on it wouldn't last 6 years, you could probably get the same hardware for half the price and replace every 3; you'd have a time-relative higher spec laptop for more of the time as a result.
e.g. my phone cost £60 2 years ago, at the time was essentially equivalent to a 2 year old flagship, but new. I should probably replace it soon, but at the same amortised cost, an iPhone would've had to have lasted me longer than they've existed. (And the current ones are more than twice as expensive, which wouldn't bode well for its replacement!)
What I'm saying is: I want the mac, specifically. And the fact that I know I can trust it to last 5+ years makes me less concerned about the overall premium price they charge for it.
Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.
They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it.
When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience.
Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook).
Just stop buying those devices.
There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be.
>What about just stop buying those things?
What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge.
ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide.
Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.
They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.
I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.
I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.
I’d rather pay $1500 for a phone than have Google in my life again.
It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer.
We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality.
And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.
Just stop supporting those 'ecosystems'.
Staying with Apple products is an easy decision. Less easy than it used to be, but still easy.
I guess Apple's solution is to sell old models forever, rather than design new, low to mid-range products.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-G...
In 2018 dollars (adjusted for inflation) that is ~$1507.00. You can get a mid-level Macbook Pro for that now.
Are you sure you're not misremembering a student discount vs retail? Because the lowest end 12" early 2004 iBook G4 launched for $1100, and the 14" launched for $1300. That's in 2004 money, that's around $1500/$1750 (respectively) after 12 years of inflation. And the iBook G4 was not quite on the relative level of the new MacBook Airs (which I assume is what you're comparing to with that $1200 number). Double thunderbolt 3 IO alone makes them far more versatile in higher power activities.
I mean your post is kind of interesting as an example of how people's memories work with regard to pricing over time anyway.
For the lower cost, you get far better hardware (CPU, battery, screen, wifi included, etc) and software (10.14 vs 10.3, iWork included for free, good selection of free modern web browsers, etc).
If the iBook G4 seemed very reasonable, the 2018 MacBook Air should seem like a steal. It's not just better value (technology always does that), but lower absolute cost. The only thing they haven't done is drop prices faster than inflation, but that's a pretty arbitrary line.
Back in the day, I used to write addresses on bits of papers or print out a picture of a map. Did that become illegal since the iPhone came out?
One device can still be all the machine one needs, and it can still be a notebook or even a desktop machine.
Just this morning I was pulling them out of my backpack getting off the train and noticed for the first time (I've had these headphones a year) there's a discreet 3.5mm headphone jack.
You know what didn't come in the box? A 3.5mm headphone cable.
Which means if I want to plug this thing into an old iPod or my docking station at work, I'd need to bring a miniUSB cable and an adapter. Or just go buy my own 3.5mm cable.
Very interesting design choices if you ask me.
As for the iPhone: I'd like to keep my home button with TouchID and my screen without the notch. I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks.
Apple seems to have crossed a line. They're no longer selling good products at a premium. At this point, they're basically milking their customers. I hope this backfires severely for them.
Want a fully-loaded 15 in. MBP without a touch bar? Too bad. I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band.
They appeared to kill the Macbook Air when they dropped the latest iteration of the Macbook, only to bring back the Air last month.
Sure, these machines are all still well-built and should meet the demands of their users. But Apple's ability to communicate and ship their various product lines is getting noticeably worse, and that raises fears for the future (rightfully so.)
Because at the end of the day, we're not just buying laptops and phones, we're committing to the ecosystem that these devices grant us access to.
Who uses Garage Band, ever? Such a limited piece of dumbed down Logic X garbage. I go buy good software for music and delete that st but, man!, that program is like cancer—it just keeps coming back.
Now, THAT is frustrating.
I'm also still getting by with my 7 Plus, and my hope is that next year we'll see a model sans notch that I can upgrade to. I can't imagine that Apple would have gone down this path without some plan about how to eliminate the notch in a reasonable (2-3 yr) timeframe. OTOH, we still have a camera bump, and I thought that was very un-Apple also!
Lastly, I'd point out that the 7 Plus was expensive, but it's also a high-performance/high-quality device with a longer useful life than most non-Apple phones. I've had my for 2 years already, and plan to keep it for 3. I assume I'll sell it for around $275 next year, which means the monthly cost of the device is around $17. Not bad, considering I bought it when it was the latest-and-greatest!
Linux is great on the Desktop, especially for programming. Be sure to get a computer that can run it, like a Thinkpad. My laptop has significantly better specs than a Mac that is at least $1000 more expensive, and has a much better support plan. They will drive to my home the next business day to fix anything that breaks.
I'm not fully satisfied by the hardware options at the moment, same touchbar sentiment but I don't think the rest is so dire stupid crap like not including extension cables, and inflation is also a thing FWIW.
I think a really good monitor or docking/egpu box would go a long way for the laptops lack of ports. Holding on to my 2013/2015 in meantime
(not that i don't kinda want some air pods)
Wouldn't ever own a pair though. I am absolutely awful at not losing earbuds, so I exclusively wear over ear phones now. Much harder to lose.
Big news indeed.
I agree that it is absurd to pay $800 for a phone that lacks features I want and has features I don't want. So I didn't. It's that easy.
Why are people buying these $1200 phones that have taken away pretty much everything?
Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? I just dont like that they trac my location, record my conversations and inject spam into almost every “product” they got.
Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
>What are those next two major Android releases include that I need?
These are future releases, so not sure. Android 9 'Pie' should be available soon and the features included in that can be researched with your preferred search engine.
>Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone?
You can install a third party ROM if you'd like. LineageOS doesn't come with Google Play Services.
>Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
Use what you like. I personally find iOS to be terrible with ergonomics, UX, and just plain everyday features. You can't open zip/rar files, can't download MP3's, can't play m4a's, can't play .webm's, there's no file management system. I can do pretty much everything my laptop does on my $160 Android, but not on a $1400 iPhone.
The box was sealed, serial number was valid and unused (Apple can confirm this) and the warranty is valid as well. Buyer beware, there are some sketchy sellers on Amazon but if it is "fulfilled by Amazon" I would expect no issues with a return.
1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075X4DCW3/ref=oh_aui_deta...