I don't live in a bubble. Media and people who use the term "alt-right" live in a bubble. You have to live in a bubble to even use a term like alt-right. But you know that already.
More like someone does something for media attention.
Isn't it funny how all of these things happen after the media started using pewdiepie for clicks?
For years, pewdiepie went about his business and nothing happened. Then one day the media decided to exploit pewdiepie for views and all of a sudden, the attention seekers pile on.
For years he was a relatively normal YouTuber. Then, for some bizarre reason, he decided that he felt more in common with trolls, incels and alt-right assholes and he became news.
Compare his output now with that from a few years ago. He's become a total dick, and he gets the followers he deserves.
PewDiePie gets more views on Youtube than the entire mainstream media combined, who pour a shitload of money into Youtube to get their videos promoted because they are losing viewers and can't get the ratings through good content.
Of course they hate the fact. They try to paint him in a negative light at any point possible, which just backfires on them, because they are just doubling-down on the same garbage which is what caused their massive loss of viewership in the first place.
People are fed up of old media pundits and their garbage "news" (or deliberate omission of). Pew News is now the mainstream news. Of course, trolls have taken the opportunity to use PDP to keep trolling the left-wing media, who seem eager to take any bait they're thrown.
The recent New Zealand shooter mentioned PewDiePie, and while I don't know if PewDiePie is directly racist, he was subscribed to a ton of fear-mongering idiots on Twitter until immediately after the shooting.
EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying that Felix is responsible for the actions of his fan, just that it makes sense that people would latch on to the potential that he might be a douchebag.
Pewdiepie has become clickbait. Articles written about him are typically very poor quality and poorly researched, nor do they take into account the fact he has 80+ million subscribers. That is a LOT of subscribers and if you go looking for bad behavior, you're going to find it.
It's ridiculous I have to say it, but Pewdiepie is no more responsible for terrorism or white nationalism than Doom was for Columbine. In fact I'd say he's less culpable. We've been through this before with videogames, now we're going through it with memes. The older generation always thinks the younger generation is up to no good and their form of entertainment is "corrupting" them. Before videogames it was movies, and before that it was "rock and roll". And so on.
Taken to the extreme, your argument could be "No one has ever influenced anyone ever for any reason". Yes, studies indicate that violent video game do not increase violence, but this doesn't inherently imply that rhetoric cannot be effective.
There are plenty of examples throughout history of fear-mongering around race. Are you going to suggest that Hitler wasn't at all responsible for uniting a large percentage of the German people against the Jews? Are you going to suggest that Charles Manson shouldn't be held responsible for anything he started by his bizarre attempt at a race-war? Are you going to claim that bad behavior cannot become normalized if enough influential people do it?
I don't think PewDiePie is responsible for the actions of his fans, because as you said, with 80 million people, you're going to get some awful humans in the mix. I just didn't agree with your reasoning.
It would be naive to pretend the connection between the shooter and Spyro is as random and meaningless as the connection between PewDiePie and white nationalist/alt-right trolling. I'm absolutely not blaming PewDiePie in any way for things that crowd does, even if they give a religious-terrorist-style pledge to him before they commit murder as a "joke", but I do think he is somewhat at fault for their attraction to him.
I feel like YouTubers are the next "bad influence", a position held in the past by marijuana, video games, rock 'n roll, heavy metal and communism.
The funny thing is that the ones complaining are the same ones who's generation was accused of listening to bad influence music like SOAD, Marilyn Manson and Rammstein, all of whom were blamed for shootings in the past because the perps happened to listen to them.
"Subscribe to PewDiePie" has been adopted by white supremacists. Part of it is due to the 'fight' to get to 100m between PewDiePie (the 'white') and T-Series (the 'browns'). Part of it is also because PewDiePie has or has been accused of retweeting, posting, promoting, etc views, channels, and memes that are racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic, etc.
White supremacists don't typically claim to drive particular roads before going on a shooting spree that kills 50 people. They also don't advocate their ISP when doing ransomware. Pewdiepie has said some controversial statements, that whether intentional or not has attracted a fan base of white supremacists. Nothing he has said has been as controversial or impactful as it would be if a head of state said something similar, however for better or worse he has inspired them whether he wanted to or not.
And the person who killed five police officers and injured 11 more people in Dallas was a fan of BLM. And John Hinckley Jr. thought he would impress Jodie Foster.
The views of madmen don't reflect on the celebrities or groups they're fans of.
Was it really, or is it like the "White Power" symbol (ok sign), which was a joke by /pol/ until the mainstream media believed it after which it was picked up by actual racists?
It was an effective proof of how ridiculous the media is. They were desperately looking for anything they could use against Trump, so they swallowed the laughable "OK sign = white power" story as quickly as they swallowed Smollett's story.
Proving that the corporate media is mostly propaganda may not suit your political preferences, but comparing it to "goat-kissing" ranks fairly highly on the nonsense meter - and these days, that's really saying something.
Just people piggybacking off his fame, and the media's eagerness to rebroadcast their claimed association to him if it makes him look bad, thus making this attention seeking tactic effective.
The more it happens, the more the media is willing to cover it, meaning it will happen even more. What would you call this, a Virtueless Cycle?
Pretty much nothing to do with the actual guy; he's become something of a symbol in certain circles of the internet as something to fight for - people who are seeking something to do with their lives.
The guy himself was a gaming youtuber but nowadays mostly makes relatively simple comedy videos reviewing memes. He's hosted people such as elon musk on his show, and really isn't all that controversial or bad himself. He's the most subscribed youtuber at the time of writing, and a long drawn-out campaign by several people has been made to keep him there, mostly without his guidance or really, much of his participation. Mostly because he has become something of a figurehead for the time where the internet was based around individuals sharing things - this happened because the next highest channel who will inevitably pass him at some point are a large corporation.
As a result, many twenty-somethings who grew up on an internet of blogging and viral videos made by random people like them are having a sort of kickback against what they see as the growing influence of corporations on the internet's culture.
Naturally, there is nothing that is against manufactured pop culture taking over the internet than places like 4chan with their rhetoric about 'normies' and 'npcs', and they already have a sort of apocalyptic outlook on the world and culture of anything goes, it breeds certain kinds of people like this.
Now pewdiepie himself has done things that haven't helped his cause, but it's difficult to spin this situation and say it's his doing.
>long drawn-out campaign by several people has been made to keep him there, mostly without his guidance or really, much of his participation.
I'd say he actively participates in that campaign. Also, he did nothing to discourage fans who came up with that printer hack, which though seemingly innocuous, is still a hack.
PewDiePie is a the currently the most subscribed YouTuber. He started off making gaming videos (LetsPlay, reviews), but has since really "retired" from that and occasionally makes comedy style vlogs. He likely has a very large and diverse fanbase, all of whom are probably coming into age now (Someone who watched PewDiePie at age 13 when he became the most popular YouTuber in 2013, would be 19 now).
Around sometime last year, PewDiePie came under a string of bad publicity which linked him to Nazi's and an incident where he called someone a nggr when he died in a video game. He has since "apologized" and tried to make things right, but whats done is done.
My hypothesis is, due to his "persecution" PewDiePie is now very popular as an alt-right martyr - he can't fully come out and say he's full on white supremacist because of the media boogeyman, but, to his supporters, he's clearly on their side (whether he is or not, I don't know, and it's irrelevant). As a result he gets a lot of lip service from a lot of notorious individual (regardless if he wants it), due to his nature as a meme in these communities.
Again, I'm not pretending to know where PewDiePie lies in all this, and he could very well be supporting or indifferent to this whole thing. However I do believe this whole thing might be larger than him at this point.
Is the assertion that they don't actually support or watch PewDiePie? Or that they do so ironically? How can we even begin to make these distinctions without a god's-eye-view of all these people and all this fans and all their intentions?
"PewDiePie fans keep making junk ransomware" is a different headline than "Virus encrypts hard drive until PewDiePie reaches 100M followers"
The former, for people who only read headlines, implies PewDiePie is at fault, or at least condones ransomware in his name. It's the same (purposefully?) ignorant reading of "chan culture" as the implication that every Pepe meme is Nazi propaganda.
A very large percentage Pepe memes are white supremacist propaganda or just blatantly racist. They took something that was decent and ruined it. I mean it's like claiming Charlie Daniels isn't conservative despite most of what he says being conservative and on conservative networks. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
This argument is entirely disingenuous. For at least a decade, Pepe memes were wholly generic. People all across the spectrum used them.
In the last three years, a (dis?)information campaign to align Pepe memes with the alt-right resulted in a massive drop in use of the meme by non-alt-right people, who didn't want to be considered guilty by proxy. You're using the after-effect of the association as proof of origin.
PewDiePie has an audience of 60 million if I remember correctly. For comparison, ~120 million people voted in the US 2016 elections.
If you are thinking that 60 million people are all toxic and gross and represent everything that is wrong with internet and gaming culture, with respect, you're being an extremist. Just like those in that community who are noisy enough to get your attention.
60 million people out of 350mm in the USA possessing and acting on non-progressive ideologies that are suppressive, racist, regressive and generally incompatible with life in 2019? Yes I do believe that, and a lot of people would agree with me.
I don't know how to respond to this type of statement. Your conclusion is drawn, anything I say will just be me being racist/regressive/generally compatible with life in 2019.
Edit: I see from his profile that this fine upstanding citizen has made his identity that of crusader to right the wrongs of this world. So unlikely that any sort of discussion is possible if it conflicts with his viewpoint.
I upvoted you, because yes, it's everyone's responsibilities to make the world a better place. I hope you find peace and compassion before it's too late.
“As pointed out in editorials by the New York Times and The Verge, the phrase "subscribe to PewDiePie" has become almost equivalent with dumb stunts and racially fueled declarations, and was also muttered by a gunman before embarking on a killing spree in a New Zealand mosque last week.”
Yes, it's real. The terrorist said on camera "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" before murdering people.
Pewdiepie followed a lot of white supremacists and alt-right on Twitter, including encouraging his fans to follow one of them.
After the terrorist attack, he went into damage control and unfollowed everyone on Twitter, probably to hide the fact he had followed those kinds of people.
I hate being a Pewdiepie advocate here, but this is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened.
Christchurch terrorist was trying to make his attack as viral as possible and saying something like "subscribe to Pewdiepie" was the best way to create perfect shit-storm online achieving exactly this goal.
PDP never expressed any views adjacent to white-supremacy or whatnot. I've been following his story for quite some time and haven't seen any proof of the opposite that could be argued in good faith.
> including encouraging his fans to follow one of them
This is also while technically true, only presents half of the story. PDP has made a video promoting 40+ other youtube channels with low subscribers count. One of the channels he's promoted for making a funny anime review turned out to be pushing some questionable content outside of these anime reviews. PDP cut out this part from his original video and apologized. Seems like his only fault in this situation was not doing enough research before recommending those 40+ channels.
Again, I'm not a huge fan of his, but these kind of bad-faith attacks on someone who's just making funny meme videos on the internet seem very unjust and counter-productive.
Pewdiepie has some over 90 million followers. Judging such a huge number of people by the actions of few representatives as not too far from "all muslims are terrorists" and "all christians are pedophiles"
74 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 156 ms ] threadhttps://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Also, please don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes. Such comments are always off topic.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Isn't it funny how all of these things happen after the media started using pewdiepie for clicks?
For years, pewdiepie went about his business and nothing happened. Then one day the media decided to exploit pewdiepie for views and all of a sudden, the attention seekers pile on.
Compare his output now with that from a few years ago. He's become a total dick, and he gets the followers he deserves.
It's cute that he has so many fanbois though.
Of course they hate the fact. They try to paint him in a negative light at any point possible, which just backfires on them, because they are just doubling-down on the same garbage which is what caused their massive loss of viewership in the first place.
People are fed up of old media pundits and their garbage "news" (or deliberate omission of). Pew News is now the mainstream news. Of course, trolls have taken the opportunity to use PDP to keep trolling the left-wing media, who seem eager to take any bait they're thrown.
EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying that Felix is responsible for the actions of his fan, just that it makes sense that people would latch on to the potential that he might be a douchebag.
It's ridiculous I have to say it, but Pewdiepie is no more responsible for terrorism or white nationalism than Doom was for Columbine. In fact I'd say he's less culpable. We've been through this before with videogames, now we're going through it with memes. The older generation always thinks the younger generation is up to no good and their form of entertainment is "corrupting" them. Before videogames it was movies, and before that it was "rock and roll". And so on.
There are plenty of examples throughout history of fear-mongering around race. Are you going to suggest that Hitler wasn't at all responsible for uniting a large percentage of the German people against the Jews? Are you going to suggest that Charles Manson shouldn't be held responsible for anything he started by his bizarre attempt at a race-war? Are you going to claim that bad behavior cannot become normalized if enough influential people do it?
I don't think PewDiePie is responsible for the actions of his fans, because as you said, with 80 million people, you're going to get some awful humans in the mix. I just didn't agree with your reasoning.
Please elaborate, what would you have PewDiePie do differently?
The funny thing is that the ones complaining are the same ones who's generation was accused of listening to bad influence music like SOAD, Marilyn Manson and Rammstein, all of whom were blamed for shootings in the past because the perps happened to listen to them.
The views of madmen don't reflect on the celebrities or groups they're fans of.
https://i.redd.it/a30ktlbuann21.jpg
What do you think? And do you really want to go through life painting 60 million people with one brush?
>picked up by actual racists
Chicken and egg, eh?
If you make out with a goat, whether you’re attracted to goats or doing it to be “edgy” or “ironic”, you’re still a goat-kisser.
Proving that the corporate media is mostly propaganda may not suit your political preferences, but comparing it to "goat-kissing" ranks fairly highly on the nonsense meter - and these days, that's really saying something.
The more it happens, the more the media is willing to cover it, meaning it will happen even more. What would you call this, a Virtueless Cycle?
The guy himself was a gaming youtuber but nowadays mostly makes relatively simple comedy videos reviewing memes. He's hosted people such as elon musk on his show, and really isn't all that controversial or bad himself. He's the most subscribed youtuber at the time of writing, and a long drawn-out campaign by several people has been made to keep him there, mostly without his guidance or really, much of his participation. Mostly because he has become something of a figurehead for the time where the internet was based around individuals sharing things - this happened because the next highest channel who will inevitably pass him at some point are a large corporation.
As a result, many twenty-somethings who grew up on an internet of blogging and viral videos made by random people like them are having a sort of kickback against what they see as the growing influence of corporations on the internet's culture.
Naturally, there is nothing that is against manufactured pop culture taking over the internet than places like 4chan with their rhetoric about 'normies' and 'npcs', and they already have a sort of apocalyptic outlook on the world and culture of anything goes, it breeds certain kinds of people like this.
Now pewdiepie himself has done things that haven't helped his cause, but it's difficult to spin this situation and say it's his doing.
I'd say he actively participates in that campaign. Also, he did nothing to discourage fans who came up with that printer hack, which though seemingly innocuous, is still a hack.
Around sometime last year, PewDiePie came under a string of bad publicity which linked him to Nazi's and an incident where he called someone a nggr when he died in a video game. He has since "apologized" and tried to make things right, but whats done is done.
My hypothesis is, due to his "persecution" PewDiePie is now very popular as an alt-right martyr - he can't fully come out and say he's full on white supremacist because of the media boogeyman, but, to his supporters, he's clearly on their side (whether he is or not, I don't know, and it's irrelevant). As a result he gets a lot of lip service from a lot of notorious individual (regardless if he wants it), due to his nature as a meme in these communities.
Again, I'm not pretending to know where PewDiePie lies in all this, and he could very well be supporting or indifferent to this whole thing. However I do believe this whole thing might be larger than him at this point.
More like trolls piggybacking off PewDiePie as a meme.
The former, for people who only read headlines, implies PewDiePie is at fault, or at least condones ransomware in his name. It's the same (purposefully?) ignorant reading of "chan culture" as the implication that every Pepe meme is Nazi propaganda.
Source:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pepe+meme&ia=images&iax=images
In the last three years, a (dis?)information campaign to align Pepe memes with the alt-right resulted in a massive drop in use of the meme by non-alt-right people, who didn't want to be considered guilty by proxy. You're using the after-effect of the association as proof of origin.
This does not surprise me.
If you are thinking that 60 million people are all toxic and gross and represent everything that is wrong with internet and gaming culture, with respect, you're being an extremist. Just like those in that community who are noisy enough to get your attention.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: I see from his profile that this fine upstanding citizen has made his identity that of crusader to right the wrongs of this world. So unlikely that any sort of discussion is possible if it conflicts with his viewpoint.
“As pointed out in editorials by the New York Times and The Verge, the phrase "subscribe to PewDiePie" has become almost equivalent with dumb stunts and racially fueled declarations, and was also muttered by a gunman before embarking on a killing spree in a New Zealand mosque last week.”
Pewdiepie followed a lot of white supremacists and alt-right on Twitter, including encouraging his fans to follow one of them.
After the terrorist attack, he went into damage control and unfollowed everyone on Twitter, probably to hide the fact he had followed those kinds of people.
Christchurch terrorist was trying to make his attack as viral as possible and saying something like "subscribe to Pewdiepie" was the best way to create perfect shit-storm online achieving exactly this goal.
PDP never expressed any views adjacent to white-supremacy or whatnot. I've been following his story for quite some time and haven't seen any proof of the opposite that could be argued in good faith.
> including encouraging his fans to follow one of them
This is also while technically true, only presents half of the story. PDP has made a video promoting 40+ other youtube channels with low subscribers count. One of the channels he's promoted for making a funny anime review turned out to be pushing some questionable content outside of these anime reviews. PDP cut out this part from his original video and apologized. Seems like his only fault in this situation was not doing enough research before recommending those 40+ channels.
Again, I'm not a huge fan of his, but these kind of bad-faith attacks on someone who's just making funny meme videos on the internet seem very unjust and counter-productive.
These people are some of the most misguided humans our species ever produced.