Ask HN: Why is the US the center of the tech industry?
Is it the historic innovation, American culture in general? There are so many other countries with brilliant minds, we live over the internet. Yet foreign companies are ignored for Google, Apple, and Amazon, Microsoft, and Oracle. I dont hear anything elsewhere, China being the only exception. And they're feared, to the point where Huawei's banned.
Do you think another country will take its place? Will growing internet adoption lead to growing patterns of geographic decentralization in the industry? Is it possible cryptocurrencies will cause a rise in an internet centered tech industry?
93 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 172 ms ] threadTextiles? Steam power? Railways? Steel? Shipping? Industrial chemistry? Automobiles? Aircraft?
Kind of amusing that what you think of as the "first tech industry" is only one of a very long list.
I do not get this sense taking to people from other countries at all, largely in part Canada and the UK. They aren't trying to change the world.
Andy Grove: Hungarian
Nikola Tesla: Serbian
Sergey Brin: Russian
Patrick and John Collison: Irish
Mathilde Collin: French
Jerry Yang: Taiwanese
There was an old episode of Top Gear where Clarkson was driving around an exotic car in America. He noted that Americans were super excited about the car, giving him complements, posing for pictures, saying that one day they’ll own one and generally being positive and optimistic.
In contrast, he reflected that if he did the same thing in the UK, he’d either get insulted for “showing off” or people would be generally negative/pessimistic because they could never afford one.
Americans believe we can and that belief allows the mental and emotional energy to try
No one is guaranteed success. But if you never believe you even could you would be much less inclined to even try.
> The ability to walk away from unsustainable debts and start all over again is one of the distinctive quirks of American capitalism. Since 1898, it has been every American’s right to file for Chapter VII (liquidation) or XIII (voluntary personal reorganization). Rich and poor alike, people in the United States appear to regard bankruptcy as an ‘unalienable right’ almost on a par with ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’. Ascent of money, p61
Giving people a second chance created a better environment for risk takers, using trial and error until they perfect their business model.
Every other major economic power was devastated after WW2. Because the US was geographically isolated from the major theatres of war, it was in a good position to capitalise on the investment in technology at the dawn of the transistor age.
Every nation has gone true adversity and many had bounced off in a matter of years.
The US economy has been dominating (measured by % of world GDP) since long before WW2. Ref: https://infogram.com/share-of-world-gdp-throughout-history-1...
Also worth noting is that the US has faced its own headwinds including a civil war just a few decades before its ascent to global domination.
In other threads mention the British tech giveaway, German scientists, and booming infrastructure compared to Europe and Asia in ruins. The can-do attitude was a multiplier.
WWII was a hundred year boost.
Earlier than what, the Great Depression? The civil war resulted in > 500,000 deaths and hardly made a dent in the upward trend that was already underway.
> didn’t result in complete destruction due to lack of technology.
Europe was rebuilt 60 years ago (infrastructure, industry, and all)
> WWII was a hundred year boost.
Not sure where you get this information but looking at the data I linked, WW2 provided a gentle touch before the US started to slide down and has been ever since.
Also % of world gdp is not a great measurement. Numbers not great either. Europe lay in ruins in 1950, then rebuilt. A gradual tapering is unlikely. No down cycle for US civil war, very unlikely.
Europe & Asia is private equity territory, which is a fundamentally different attitude and approach to high-risk, high-growth business (as in they rarely do it). VC firms expect to make their money on IPOs & exits which encourages innovation and experimentation, while PE firms expect to make money from operations and interests on obliged loans which favors smart operations and good margins.
We were the main beneficiaries of the Europeans driving out their Jewish population. As a group, European Jews are responsible for something like 25% of our intellectual output over the last century, but only make up 2% of our population. Lately we've been importing an intellectual class of similar caliber from the Indian subcontinent. Kinda hard to lose the race when you have a huge proportion of the world's intellectual talent.
His father's tale of anti-semitism in Russia is now quite famous.
https://www.cnet.com/news/googles-brin-anti-semitism-forced-...
Neil deGrasse Tyson used Nobel prize winners as a measure (~30% of them are Jews). While I agree that it's hard to measure it is representative of the underlying picture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence
* The US federal government provided massive amounts of funding, especially in earlier years. Oracle for example was jumpstarted by the CIA, an US federal agency.
* Economically, the US is highly developed, and has a gigantic market with over 200 million people who all speak one language. The EU didn't even have the unified market since a few years ago, and there is still inconsistency regarding the language. China does have both a more or less consistent legal regime as well as a consistent language due to their past efforts to teach their population a common language (this is non-zero effort as Chinese dialects are so different to each other, probably if it weren't for political influence you'd classify them as several languages).
* California in specific has at-will employment laws meaning a start up can be wrapped up quickly without having to pay large sums of money to employees.
* The US federal government maintains a large spying apparatus which has been increased massively after the 2001 terror attacks. They don't just use it for evil terrorists. It has been confirmed multiple times that they perform industrial espionage against companies in western countries, supposed allies of the US. The US government then gives the results of the espionage to industrial partners.
* Nowadays there are of course massive network effects.
Specifically which company has benefited from industrial espionage in a way that can even begin to answer the question posed by the OP?
https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlant...
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-firms-fe...
To try to make it less likely that this comment makes you feel bad, I will close by making the (true) statement that I found your comment to be interesting and insightful and your usages of "since" didn't hurt my comprehension at all, they just sounded weird.
Its probably more but this is what I've seen.
1. America's early expansion was designed to gain control over the entirety of the Mississippi river, which has the largest lockless waterway system serving the longest "useful" land area in the world with cheap boat transportation. This cheap transportation is the primary reason for American early development success, and continues to benefit America immensely to this day.
2. Every other developed country suffered massive losses in the world wars. America suffered no damage to her land or infrastructure, and was able to use her superior position at the end of the war to gain even more economic advantage over allies and foes alike.
3. America binged importing top scientific talent at the end of the second world war, most notably from Germany by offering them amnesty from war crimes (which massively boosted their rocketry, medical, and electronics industries).
The rest is largely snowball effect.
[1] https://www.britannica.com/place/Mississippi-River/History-a...
Louisiana wasn't a primary focus of the US foreign policy, particularly in the early 1800s. Instead, the US was more concerned with staying out of the deteriorating situation in Europe (during the Napoleonic Wars), and the main expansion targets would have been Canada and Florida.
Elon Musk
* World War II. In WWII, the only country that had the means to meaningfully fund longer-term military research projects was the US; in other countries such as Germany and the UK, these projects were defunded or reduced in scope to let the money and resources be allocated to things that would help prevent the collapse of the country. Furthermore, the US was the only large country to escape significant infrastructure destruction, which would preoccupy most of the rest of the world for another decade or so.
* The development of a strong education and research system. This is in and of itself a more complex topic, but one thing I'd call out is that the American wealthy have had a stronger tradition of philanthropy than their European counterparts, and a lot of that philanthropy was geared towards making sure that the US was well-stocked with universities, libraries, museums, and the like.
* Clustering effects. Companies tend to want to be near other companies that do similar things--it's why there's a lot a tech companies in Silicon Valley, even if they could do their job equally well from Illinois. Early computer research ended up being in the US, so the computer technology clusters have ended up being very US-centric.
* Market size. The US has historically been the largest market for tech, and arguably still is for certain segments of the market. Europe has been (and generally remains) too fragmented to be a single market, China and India historically too poor, and the USSR hampered itself with internal controls. Furthermore, the size of the US market also means that it tends to be harder for foreign entrants to break into the market than it is for US entrants to break into foreign markets.
> Do you think another country will take its place?
Eventually, yes. On what time scale, I can't say.
> Will growing internet adoption lead to growing patterns of geographic decentralization in the industry?
No. The internet has not reversed the trend for businesses to cluster together, and I see no reason to expect that should change.
> Is it possible cryptocurrencies will cause a rise in an internet centered tech industry?
I don't see how they could...
This is true not only for tech but also for everything else. Being poor in the USA was better than to be middle class anywhere else. Also, European scientists left to the USA.
> The development of a strong education and research system.
Yes. Education is the base for the knowledge economy.
> Market size.
Sweden is a good example of a country in a similar situation to the one in the USA. But, it is very small. Sweden has been very successful in IT but its impact is very small.
I completely agree with you.
Are you talking about the 5-10 top universities? On average Europeans have by far and large better educational system. It's not even comparable IMHO. On average Europeans are much better educated and that has to do with the fact that education is part of state-funded welfare in most European countries, while in the US education is expensive and only a small minority can afford it.
A beyond-average elementary programmer gets $40K/yr in China with 9-9-6 life. But the same person in the United States may get $120K or even more with a 9-6-5 life.
So many Chinese programmers are moving to the US for higher pay.
Not every Chinese developer could get out of China to get higher pay because of tight competition, family, and traditions.
It should be mentioned that: 1. US companies in China (like Google, Microsoft, etc.) do not give higher pay than Chinese companies (like BAT, Toutiao, Pinduoduo). 2. Apartment price in China is very high. You can't easily find an apartment inside Beijing's 5th-ring-road having a <$10,000/m2 price.
Developers that cannot go aboard can only work hard in Chinese companies to pay the apartment loan.
Many other things need to be taken into account including cost of living and services.
Other countries with similar socioeconomic conditions tend to regulate things quicker plus have social programmes (healthcare, workers rights etc)
The US does neither.
I think this makes it easier to start in the first place.
The other part, as others have pointed out, is the extreme development the US achieved on the back of WWII that provided capital which has snowballed since.
Some are nicely summarized (factors leading up to the current Political/Military/Economic domination) in a two-part Stratfor article;
1) The Geopolitics of the United States, Part 1: The Inevitable Empire - https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/geopolitics-united-st...
2) The Geopolitics of the United States, Part 2: American Identity and the Threats of tomorrow. - https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/geopolitics-united-st...
The way i look at it is (in no particular order);
Luck - WW2 decimated almost all developed countries. The US "home" was untouched (no war on their soil) thus leaving them as the sole industrial/military powerhouse with resources intact. This is actually a huge factor and the current state follows directly from here. They also appropriated a lot of Scientists/Technologies from the losers which gave them the needed headstart in many tech areas.
People psyche - The country was founded by immigrants who basically had to do whatever to "survive". Since they had no history in the new land, they were not bogged down by crystallized cultural norms and beliefs. Thus the focus on "Capitalism"(euphemism for Greed and "do whatever it takes to win") and "Hustle" (not always driven by Ethics/Morals contrary to what their leaders may claim). This setup their current culture where their desire is to be THE global hegemon by any means necessary. If you think about it, this is a great motivator for just about anything.
Geography - Covered well in the above articles. This allowed them to develop independently of detrimental external influences.
Control of World Economy - By forcing everybody to use $ as the world's currency. The ramifications of this is all-encompassing.
Military/Education/Industrial Complex - This is a crucial nexus which is directly responsible for much of their dominance in the technology domain. The Military funds "Blue Sky" projects in close association with Academia and the Industry. Because of this close-knit setup, the path from Ideation to Realized Implementation is very fast and seamless. No other country does this as well. Because of the "Power Law", progress in Technology is accelerated leading to being the natural front-runner.
Finally, it should be clear that "Military Dominance" is used to enforce "Economic Dominance" and vice-versa.
Having worked with software engineering teams around the world over the years, and also done a lot of software tech M&A diligence, I've come to appreciate the massive impact that local culture has on being effective at advanced software development. This goes beyond the culture of the company itself; the level of ambition and optimistic self-belief required to be effective at developing very advanced software isn't terribly compatible with environments where Tall Poppy Syndrome/Law of Jante/etc is a real social dynamic, and that is very much the rule rather than the exception.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-context_and_low-context...