Most often there is no such thing as a "mens" league - ie there is no gender restriction or testing in the NFL, the premier league, etc. I wonder, do mens track and field events in the Olympics even do gender tests?
Oh come on. The distinction between men and women in sports has always been based on biology and not identity. There’s no way Mike Tyson boxes in the lightweight classes because he feels skinny on the inside.
This has already come up in running, but with the bionic (basically a big carbon fiber spring) foot instead of a powered cycle. And it raised a huge stink when the disabled person won.
That's in sprinting. And in marathons, there's a similar thing - the wheelchair people are in a separate category, because otherwise they would destroy the "able" people.
Why are these sports categorized for gender instead of body weight? For example, I'm a below average man in proportions and a 75 kilo biological female would definitely beat me on many competitions.
Wouldn't work well I think. Women generally have a higher bodyfat percentage than men skewing the weight classes and AFAIK each gender is somewhat better suited to particular sports, e.g. elite weightlifters are male without exception and ultra marathon runners are often female.
Yes, males and females (XY and XX) account for the vast majority of the human species. Some syndromes that cause variations (intersex, XXY, XYY, etc.) are a very small minority, and people with those conditions usually have some health issues to deal with.
Because the closer you get to peak performance the wider the gap gets.
Women athletes will no pass qualifiers for their respective men’s Olympic events even in the same weight category.
Muscle mass, nervous system joint stability biological males have a distinct physical advantage.
Sure a female athlete at 75kg might wipe the floor with you on some events however take a 75kg male athlete and they might as well not be the same species.
Besides for LGBT activists being overrepresented among techies relative to the population at large, this topic isn't really relevant to hn and is just going to invite opinion based low effort posts imho.
I must have missed a memo. Why are men being allowed to compete in women’s sports just because they claim to be women? Why would anyone think this was a good idea?
Not into sports at all, but what do people think the problem is if evolutionary biology dictates that eventually our current sports setup will trend towards being dominated by male athletics and trans athletic competition?
OK, I agree that there's a small percentage of population for whom the binary distinction for make and female fails. I believe that any adult person should be able to do whatever they want to their body, so their transition is they business (and their doctor's). I even agree that just to be civilized, we should call these people with whatever names and pronouns they are comfortable with – it costs nothing to me, and supposedly, it's important for them, so why not.
But is it fair to allow a person with a make level of testosterone and muscles to compete in a category that was created specifically for women?
For what it's worth, I found this to be one of the only thoughtful posts in the entire thread, with the rest falling around either "garbage blog" or some version or "men aren't women" dripping with inarticulate sarcasm or outrage.
I'm saying this because it's deeply depressing, as normally I put extreme value in HN as perhaps the only place left I can see a group of thoughts where the majority are sane.
I want to preface this with saying I am fully supportive of LGBTQ+ rights and I believe that people can be born one way but their brain is wired for another.
That being said, if a large majority of your biological self was a man while you were growing up even though a lot of your brain was the opposite, then you will likely have a significant advantage (athletically) over those that grew up biologically as a woman.
This is in the early days of normalcy in society for trans people, so I think eventually this will work out. Perhaps racing events need something like a "weight" class like you find in some martial arts.
It is already working out. When the goal is not to have sporty sporting events, but to fight a political fight, then we have the necessary process already in place.
Decades ago, the fight was about women and their right to have competitive sports. Their politics moved on and their rights are not on the agenda and so not very relevant. The feminists can bitch and scream, but their time has passed. They're like the segregationists hoping to return to the past. The society's direction setters have moved on. There's no going back.
Yeah I believe it will also work itself out. I also believe that inclusion and social acceptance are more important than fairness in sports (which let's be honest, it's already unfair due to some people using performance enhancing drugs and others not using them). History is not going to look back on us and say we were bad because we had a few decades of a very tiny minority of trans people having an advantage in competitive sports. We hear about things like this once or twice a year, I'm not really sure it warrants all the outrage it receives.
When the winner marginalizes those who reject the win as not being real champions, claims bigotry against those opposed to an obviously physical biological advantage, it deserves all the correction, protest, and outrage this gets.
Otherwise it becomes a silent ignored unfairness that never gets resolved.
This is a really hard argument to sell to top women athletes who will lose their category to men who identify as women. Categorizing by weight won't help, as women are have less muscle/bone per weight than men.
Sex is a biological trait, and it makes sense to categorize physical competitions by sex. Gender is a sexual choice, and your sexual choice isn't relevant to sports.
Would it not be better to categorize directly on the physical beneficial traits such as muscle/bone per weight? That way we can take out genetics from sport altogether.
Slope slipped. When we validate the illusions of the mentally ill, it's only a matter of time before the inmates are running the asylum. It is possible to treat people with dignity and respect while acknowledging that they are wrong.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 113 ms ] threadOK, compete as a man.
>If you win because bigotry got your competition banned... you're a loser.
Hard to believe it's real, wonder if she recognizes the irony.
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a23133365/blake-leeper-run...
https://www.castironstrength.com/elite-strength-sports-ipf-a...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_w...
Women athletes will no pass qualifiers for their respective men’s Olympic events even in the same weight category.
Muscle mass, nervous system joint stability biological males have a distinct physical advantage.
Sure a female athlete at 75kg might wipe the floor with you on some events however take a 75kg male athlete and they might as well not be the same species.
Citation please.
> gender equality
Please explain how women getting what they want (getting to compete against only other women) gets in the way of gender equality.
But is it fair to allow a person with a make level of testosterone and muscles to compete in a category that was created specifically for women?
I'm saying this because it's deeply depressing, as normally I put extreme value in HN as perhaps the only place left I can see a group of thoughts where the majority are sane.
That being said, if a large majority of your biological self was a man while you were growing up even though a lot of your brain was the opposite, then you will likely have a significant advantage (athletically) over those that grew up biologically as a woman.
This is in the early days of normalcy in society for trans people, so I think eventually this will work out. Perhaps racing events need something like a "weight" class like you find in some martial arts.
Decades ago, the fight was about women and their right to have competitive sports. Their politics moved on and their rights are not on the agenda and so not very relevant. The feminists can bitch and scream, but their time has passed. They're like the segregationists hoping to return to the past. The society's direction setters have moved on. There's no going back.
Please don't fight a political fight here. Our goal is to have curiosity. We can't have both.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Otherwise it becomes a silent ignored unfairness that never gets resolved.
This is a really hard argument to sell to top women athletes who will lose their category to men who identify as women. Categorizing by weight won't help, as women are have less muscle/bone per weight than men.
Sex is a biological trait, and it makes sense to categorize physical competitions by sex. Gender is a sexual choice, and your sexual choice isn't relevant to sports.
I'm not anywhere near well informed enough to form an opinion or argument around it. But it'll be fascinating to watch it develop.
Ironic that he says this while not being willing to compete against other males.