Ask HN: Would you pay for beautifully designed Linux software?

33 points by zabana ↗ HN
Have we gotten so used to free (as in price) software to the point that it's become inconceivable for us to buy native linux applications ?

Do you think this prevents developers from building good looking, easy to use applications on the platform ? I'm curious to know your thoughts

72 comments

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While I’m sure there are exceptions, I think it’s accurate to say that Linux users would prefer function over form. I’m not sure you can make a generalization about what Linux users will buy: some use Linux because they cannot afford anything else; some use it because they believe that non-free software is immoral. On the whole I would say that the macOS and iPhone users place a premium on the aesthetics of an application more than Windows, Linux, and the dozen or so FreeBSD users combined.
Right, that's what struck me about this question too. It is not about "beautiful design" when it comes to linux software, it is about being functional and that includes being on top of all of the fragmentation when it comes to linux desktops, window managers, distributions, and libraries.

It is hard to justify paying for something when you have to spend an appreciable amount of time getting it to work in your set up. Working well out of the box and consistently with updates is the first step.

People who can't afford Windows just priate it.
Let your pakistani dreams be dreams, we're not paying for your shit. We got all the good (fully free) software already. Step back to Lahore.

Goood trolling. Pakistani fuck.

the fact that you just created a throwaway account to make this comment made my day! Interesting way of spending your time!
The funniest part is that I'm not even Pakistani.
Was I being insulted after the first comment I made on HN ? :(
I would not.

I would worry that the pool of other people paying for it would be so small that unless the application also worked on Windows or OSX, the development team would not be able to sustain itself. Thus, I wouldn't be willing to pay the more substantial cost: spending my time learning to use it and integrate it into my workflows.

(This is a big part of the reason I moved to OSX when I left uni.)

Yes. Most people won't buy linux software. This is why saas has become so popular with companies.
Yes. Buy, not subscribe.
Would you expect free upgrades as new OS versions are released? What about ongoing access to support?
Hypothetically, When you buy an iPhone, do you expect to also get the latest model when it is released?

That being said, Apple also releases iOS updates to previous phones, even after they've been paid for.

If this doesn't seem strange to you, then perhaps the same thought process of buying a specific version of software with the expectation that it will work for several years is not unreasonable.

I see no need for a subscription model on every type of software. I pay you once, you ensure that it's written in a way that will continue to work for years to come. End of transaction, as far as I'm concerned.

Why would you assume that buying software gives you the right to free upgrades as new OS versions are released?

Traditionally when you 'buy' it gives you access to upgrades and support for a period of time.

For me, that is much preferable, especially compared to a model like creative cloud, which only allows cancellations of the subscription once per year, with no refunds.

I would pay for its development but the end result must be free software. If we don't then I think we're being disrespectful to the developers who's work we're building upon but I might be alone in that opinion. I hold that opinion for Linux but not the web. It feels somewhat hypocritical though.
You are not alone with this opinion. It has to be free software (free speech, not free beer).
I'm in this boat too, having bought lots of software but been burned by products disappearing/being neglected.

In buying sftware, in my experience, the real cost is in my time learing/mastering it. The ultimate example here is a text editor. If sublime was free as in speech I would still be paying to use it. As it is, I lost confidence that team could maintain it long term and have switched to Atom.

What good models are there for free speech consumer/individual developer software to actually make money?

In my experience of the last few years working as a senior software engineer in both public and private research institutions, one way to do free software development professionally is this: Find a niche in a research field and try to work in either research labs, scientific computing departments or get a maintenance grant from a foundation (e.g. CZI). Maybe I am lucky, but it seems that FLOSS is generally welcomed and the trend goes to more support. It also provides you ways to communicate on conferences, etc talking directly to many users (researchers).
I wouldn't say somewhat, it is a direct contradiction since web apps are essentially desktop apps nowadays. If the current software practices and technologies were present back in the day, then the GPL would've probably just been the AGPL.
I'll pay for software that solves a problem I have, and that's functional. Ideally it uses the platform GUI toolkit (GTK/Qt), isn't a webapp, and isn't a subscription.
I haven't thought about this before, so it might be my thoughts would evolve further if I thought about it more. But after I considered it for a moment, I would pay for it if I got the source with it, and a license to publish that source under a BSD-Like License if support for it was going to end.

As others have mentioned, the idea of it getting dumped when it turns out it isn't worth the effort, would put me off.

If the price was low enough, and the software simple enough, I might be willing to relax some of those conditions. For example, I have payed a couple of bucks for a simple pixel graphics editor, for which I was ok with the prospect that this is a toy I play with a little and then would likely drop.

Depends on the application, but I can imagine paying for some GUI heavy applications (e.g. audio/video editing). It would have to be open source though. Otherwise definitely no deal.
I've paid for IntelliJ, GoLand, and KSP, and I know many others that have, too. I don't use Linux because I'm just too cheap to pay for an OS, I use it because I tried paying for Windows and thought it sucked. I'll pay for good stuff, unless it's doing obvious things to lock me in, if there's high risk because of DRM features, etc.
in my opinion this is more valuable feedback, asking people for what they actually do, rather what they would do could lead to more certain insights.
+1 for IntelliJ here! I switched to Linux exclusively and I used Atom for a little while. It didn't take too long before I ponied up my own money for IntelliJ products though. I care mostly about the features and reliability of the programs (no random crashing) but I also appreciate that they look and feel newer than the mid 2000's.
Worth paying if the software respects users (FOSS goes without saying) and accepts suggestions. Most paying applications choose to be proprietary, though.
If it works well and kills my pain, I would do it.

It does not have to be good looking.

Just have to be a sane UX so that I can get it done.

I would definitely pay. I paid for sublime and intellij. I mostly use Linux, and wish they had some of the beautiful apps that the Mac did. To me beauty is worth paying for.
I would at three conditions 1) it's not too pricy (≈20€) 2) There is a trial (either limites features or trial) 3) No drm or not invasive ones at least

That's just a consumer saying, not a dev one

The people who use Linux are the ones for whom Linux does what they need. So would current Linux users be willing to pay? Probably not. But...if there was a Linux ecosystem with nice paid apps, Linux users would be the ones using nice paid apps. There's an assumption behind your question that we're assigned randomly to the OS.

In case you're wondering whether that would really happen, Android is evidence that it works. The underlying OS is irrelevant.

Yes, I would pay (and have done so in the past). Much as I'm willing to pay for good apps on my phone, even though there are plenty of free alternatives.
yes. We already pay for jetbrains.

People would pay a lot for: 1. SQL ide 2. audio authoring 3. Sketch 4. Photoshop

Be warned though that the trend is for this kind of stuff to move to the web. Figma is a great example. Instead of trying to create a desktop client for Linux, they did some real complex stuff on WebAssembly and built a spectacular web client - https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-... and https://www.figma.com/blog/how-we-built-the-figma-plugin-sys...

Figma is paid (and makes a lot of money)

By SQL IDE, do you mean for developers or for data analytics?
Yes I would purchase something that solves an issue I am facing.

I think the lack of a standard way of doing things hurt for-profit development rather than the resistance to pay. For example, it is hard enough to make an application work well with one DE and in Linux there is plenty.

That is why I believe web apps such as VSCode, Discord etc are the saviour for linux desktop. With that, creating a cross platform environment is rather easy.

"beautifully designed", "good looking", and "easy to use" are three very different things.

"Beautifully designed" is not important to most users unless they get the source code and need to make changes or enhancements.

"Good looking" is nice, but hard to define depending on what kind of application it is, especially on Linux. What does it mean for a server daemon to be "good looking"? What does it mean for a command line tool to be "good looking"?

"Easy to use" is very important to most users, but is also rather subjective depending on individual user preferences and experience level. For example, I think vim and emacs are both "easy to use" because I have years of experience using both for various tasks. YMMV.

Most users value utility, "easy to use", and "good price" when it comes to paid software:

1) Utility is essential because if the sofware is not useful then what is it good for?

2) "Easy to use" is important, but subjective. Know your intended audience and design to meet their needs. Seek user feedback early and often to tailor your design to match the user's expected ideas of "easy to use".

3) "Good price" varies based on the user expectation and the value proposition that you offer. If the software is extremely useful (high utility) and easy enough to use, users will pay for it.

Ask yourself "What does my software offer that is worth paying for?"

I'd prefer a well-designed (not necessarily pretty) cross-platform application. Not so much because I think the Linux version would be unsustainable, but because I'm an OS polyglot. The Jetbrains editors are a good example of this.

Cross-platform electron apps would also apply, but generally I'd prefer more native applications, just for performance reasons.

As someone who has bought applications for Mac and iOS, and also donates to FOSS projects, I would certainly buy software applications on Linux if they looked better and had a good user experience. I really don’t want to deal with hand editing config files and running shell commands to get things to work, because while I can do those, I cannot have a sustainable system I can pass on to others who’re just non-technical common users of software.

I think Linux itself, and many applications on it, don’t look great because the developers behind those are highly technical and ideological people who can, and do, cater to other technical and ideological people. They seem to think of UI and UX as wasteful things over mere, and many a times complex, functionality (they probably also believe they’re good designers who don’t need help from UI/UX experts). Even larger projects don’t spend enough time or money to use better fonts, design better layouts, use nicer color schemes, design better user experiences, etc. (one glaring example of this is LibreOffice).

Stepping outside Linux while remaining on free software, Matrix is spending time and money on improving UX because the people behind it realize the importance of it. Within the Linux world, the attitude seems to be more of users being expected to qualify to use the system - “the users are capable and will figure it out” seems to be the background thinking.

Distributions like ElementaryOS have tried to charge (or accept, depending on how you see the website) money for more beautifully designed systems than you could get out of the box elsewhere. If larger companies take such an approach or even adopt some of the niceties from such distributions, the Linux world would be much better off.

UX/UI Design seems to be fundamentally different from the rest of software development, in that it does not work well in a "Bazaar" model: there needs to be a single responsible individual that has the power to make decisions and have them respected.

Another theory is that the UI actually makes up a far larger share of development work than most assume, and that this is therefore the part where limited resources are most felt. A somewhat similar part that somewhat supports this theory is the install/update process.

Regarding ElementaryOS: there's nothing uglier than trying to steal a good design and just failing to even understand it.

I agree with your point for software in general. The right fonts and spacing could pimp up a lot of software if developers put effort in it. But...

> one glaring example of this is LibreOffice

Compared to MS Office? Excel yes, maybe PowerPoint. All other programs are inferior by now.

5 years ago I would have agreed MS Office to be far ahead in functionality and design. I use the 365 version and it is just terrible all around. And users fail even harder to create structured documents than 10 years ago. And helping them is far more difficult now because you just don't have the patience for ridiculous UI quirks of word processors anymore.

Google Docs is better than Word and it is extremely simple, but uses classical design philosophies. It still uses a sensible color palette and a good font. Not that I want to advocate Google too much right now...

I primarily use Calc from LibreOffice for all my personal stuff. And I find the fonts and layout to be unsatisfactory. Having nicer displays with higher resolutions makes it look even worse (this is on the Windows version; the Mac version seems to look better).
Where does this misconception come from where people think Linux users don't pay for things? If you provide a decent tool that kills pain and doesn't cost an arm an a leg, we will pay the money. Especially if there's no good alternative out there. I've yet to come across a good mail/calendar/combo that works well. Gnome calendar/contacts/Geary is getting there but it's still far off. Same with office suite. If Microsoft released Office for Linux without charging me over a million pound per second of usage, I'll gladly shell out the extra money to have decent office suite.
cheapest office is like 5€ per month for whole office package? How can that be too expensive?
> per month

I want software that I know, not that I lease. €5 per month means if I stop paying for reason x/y or z, I cannot use Office any more.

For most apps the looks don't really matter to me, so I wouldn't pay just for that. I would only pay for an app if it:

- does the job

- has no free equivalent that works

- saves me a lot more time/money than the cost of the product, or doesn't cost over 20€ (this is my personal threshold, for personal work. I would be fine paying more for something that I would use in professionnal work)

- has useful and innovating features (especially if something that has already been made hundreds of times like a music player)

- has a good UX

- has good documentation/support

- has a trial version

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Define "beautifully designed". I pay for software that is useful. It doesn't have to be beautiful. I'm not worried who might be looking over my shoulder.

Let's take an example. Calibre is considered by most who use it a very handy tool. It is also considered by most who use it to be ... not very good to look at. I donate to Calibre because it is useful. Would I donate (or pay) for an app that wasn't quite as useful but was better to look at? Nope.