Ask HN: What is your financial “setup”?
I've gotten a lot of good recommendations for software from this community - most recently AVRFuses and pyenv. These both focus on being simple and "doing one thing really well". They're tools and don't require much active thinking to use them regularly, which I really like.
I'm trying to get my finances set up better, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a "setup" of bank account, credit card(s), investment platform, budgeting tools, etc along these lines. Ally Bank and SoFi seem good, as does Wealthfront, but I'm just not sure if I'm using them right. I have Mint but it spams me with notifications and I'm not sure what exactly it does for me. Credit cards feel stressful to think about with keeping track of what to use for what purchase or making sure they're all paid off - I recently got a Citi card and the app alone makes me want to get rid of it.
Does anyone have a "setup" for how you manage your money that you really like? Anything that follows the "don't make me think" philosophy?
146 comments
[ 6.2 ms ] story [ 207 ms ] thread> Anything that follows the "don't make me think" philosophy?
I don't think that exists. YNAB requires pretty diligent tracking, but the payout (heh) is huge.
I happen to love the diligent tracking, though, and it's just part of my daily routine. Every time my wife or I charge a card or the money from the ATM, we log it in YNAB. Then every day I open my banking app and reconcile the charges with what we've input into YNAB. Sometimes we forget to log something, or mis-log something, or there are surprise charges to be dealt with.
Now that I'm in the habit, it takes a total of 10 minutes a day.
I think thats ironic.
It sadly stopped working with the PSD2 regulation this fall.
I'd definitely pay for it, if I could connect my bank account for automated imports.
It's seriously silly that they still haven't come around to that. There are several platforms which let you access basically all banks in Europe. And these have been around for years.
why would that even matter? its not rocket science to add more integrations. especially in an asynchronous process like fetching bank transfers. you got all the time in the world.
heck, why would you even want that? if you have a singular provider which gives you access to all banking logic, you're entirely at their mercy. they can just put whatever price they want on their service and you'd have to shell it out.
> Which platforms?
plaid to point out the most obvious. there are a lot since PSD2 came into effect though. that regulation isn't german btw. your comment makes it sounds like it is. and before PSD2, there were other providers that supported all banks in europe for example, and again: there is no reason not to add several integrations.
1. One account for salary and bills
2. One credit card for large purchases and spending online which I pay off each month
3. One pre-paid card which I top up weekly to use for daily spending and when travelling (as it has multiple currency accounts)
4. One savings account
(All of the above accounts are available to me on one App, due to the Open Banking regulations in Europe)
(Would be a good idea to set up auto sweeps to move funds between accounts, so that it's automated. I don't do this as I like to view the accounts regularly to stay on top of things)
Rules I try to follow are;
- Maximize income - Minimize expenditure - Save or invest the remainder - Don't use credit/debt but save up to buy what you want
I don't have a go to investment platform, but my preference would be to use a broker and value invest for medium to long term. I can't compete with pro traders and algorithms.
The idea of keeping records of everything is satisfying, but still need to do it.
Could you give me some details about how you started? I've glossed over the docs once, but hopefully I can just import everything, name it properly, and view it on Fava.
Is it possible to automatically generate tax documents?
A for income, ex. when I get a check I put 80% here
B taxes, when I get a check I put 20% here (taxes in Poland are 18%)
then:
C for business expenses, I know how much I spend each month, and I wire that amount each month from A
D personal account - whatever is left in A after business expenses, I wire here
Finally:
E, joint account with my partner, I know how much we spend each month and I wire that from D -> E
F, saving account for myself. Whatever is left in D at the end of the month, I put here
ING lets me manage all these accounts from their app, and wire money instantly from one to the other. All these accounts cost about $2/mo. each, but if there's enough action (ex., if you spend at least $500/mo.) the price drops to 0.
This setup is useful to not go splurge every time you get paid.
This forces me to limit spending. After paying rent, I only have about the same amount left over for personal expenses.
Any money left over in my personal account at the end of the month is transferred into a mutual fund.
But the big advantage to me is behavioral. If I have just a limited amount of money to spend in my account, I spend, well, a limited amount.
It's simpler and thus, easier to stick to than complicated rules that require more fiscal discipline
I input expenses manually and each expense has a "category". For each category I can set a monthly "Bucket" (the maximum I wanna spent) and then I can track my progress during month.
Every month I get email with spending stats and I sit down together with my girlfriend to consider our finacial situation. We can change the buckets, etc...
I think the most inportant part is manually writing expenses and then talking about it after we get the email.
Pros: no need to worry about points or blackout dates; maximize cash back; facilitates budget tracking with annual summaries and integration with budgeting sites (otherwise you’ll have to do it manually).
Examples: Double Cash 2% cash back, Apple Card 1-3% depending on payment method
2. Direct deposit your paycheck into one bank account that your credit card from 1 and investment account from 4 are connected to (set it up so only investment account can debit from the bank, not vice versa). Autopay remaining bills from 1.
Pros: only worry about paying one bill (credit card); only the hub bank account is exposed, bulk of savings is isolated in investment account.
3. Max out 401k and IRA every year using automatic deductions from your paycheck/bank account.
Pros: saving/investing on autopilot; lower taxable income
4. Consolidate and invest all savings (and roll over old 401k accounts) into an index fund at Vanguard or Fidelity. Auto-deduct from your paycheck in increasing amounts until you hit the pain threshold.
Pros: automatic diversification; one place to monitor your investments; maximum investing on auto-pilot.
> Pros: saving/investing on autopilot; lower taxable income
Does it ever make sense to do Roth 401k instead of traditional 401k?
* Hedge against different tax rates in the future. Even if now you think you'll be paying a lower rate when retired, there's no guarantees.
* You can withdraw your contributions, though not your earnings, without penalty before retirement. If you add 5k/year for a number of years, that starts to add up should you need to tap it for an emergency or other investment opportunity (real estate or bootstrapping).
The concept of raising taxes enough to affect the budget would cause a revolt.
The shared account is very simple: Every month me and my boyfriend tops it up to 5000 USD, we have a debit card to it each, and all shared expenses including rent come out of this account. By topping it off to a high number like this, we ensure we wont run out within a month, and we just use the debit card for things we need.
For my private stuff I have a credit card that I pay everything with, and I've set it up to be automatically paid off at the end of each month.
Every so often I write the expenses we've had into gnucash so I can see how much we're spending, but I don't budget in advance.
I also have a savings account with some emergency money, but I'm a poor student so I don't really have money to invest or for long term savings.
1. The top-up amount is much lower and designed so we run out of money at the end of each month. This way, we spend pragmatically and save more.
2. I take pictures of every receipt.
with savings, a personal and a additional 5k usd checking account... sry to burst your bubble but thats called wealthy for most ppl on earth.
When I was a student, I made sure I always had at least 1000 EUR on my account, basically treating the 1000 as 0. I cannot remember ever running into debt this way.
I always have €200 in cash on me which is enough to cover me at least a week. Then whatever I have left over at the end of the week I roll over. So if I have €60 left I take out 140 and transfer the difference into a savings account. I have saved a shocking amount doing this. It may seem strange but budgeting myself 800 for the month and only using cash has really helped me appreciate how much the money is worth to me. The short of it is on pay day each month I transfer 800 to my "cash account", I transfer the exact amount I need to cover my bills into my "bills" account (I also have a "buffer" of 100 in this account as a 'just in case its more than I calculated'). Everything else goes into savings. Everything.
Obviously some things fall outside the 800 cash allocation for example I bought a new coat a few weeks ago which was €230. I tried it on in store but bought it online as there was a discount I couldn't use in store annoyingly. However I have a separate budget allocation for key clothing items like coats and boots which I generally replace every other year. However I don't bother with multiple savings accounts anymore. I never found I benefited from the added complexity. If in a month or two I ruin my coat and have to buy a new one unexpectedly I will just take 230 from my savings rather than juggle things around.
I should say though that all of our expenses come from a single salary. Every month my wifes automatically goes into savings. Generally we never need to touch it. This is great for many obvious reasons but it also helps us (well me!) feel less guilty when I suggest we buy something we don't really need such as an OLED TV we got a few months ago.
Withdraw cash weekly, use only that cash to pay for food.
Supposedly, it will make you more aware of how your spending affects your balance.
Swiping a card "feels free".
Could this relate to age or how one grew up? It doesn’t seem like one abstraction is really all that different from the other.
It's experientially very different to spend, and for me at least, carries substantially greater negative feedback as my wad diminishes in transactions. Then having to replenish my stash, visiting an ATM or asking for cash back, carries a distinct bite.
Those things are largely absent when using cards or other electronic payments like phones.
Though you can structure electronic payments such that it at least draws on a very small account requiring explicit replenishing of some inconvenience, to retain some of the bite as weekly or monthly funds become exhausted.
This isn't as much of a problem for the thrifty whom feel similar anxiety in using a card. Most likely people who are actively keeping a mental track of where their balance is after every purchase - or using a ledger.
OTOH what really helped a family member of mine understand how much he was spending was getting a credit card. He was on all cash for years and then moved to all debit. Never had any idea what he was spending because if he needed cash he'd just hit up the ATM or when he was using debit just swipe. He always spent less than he had/made but he wasn't paying attention to the amount on a larger scale. Once he got a credit card (at my suggestion) and started putting everyday purchases on it the bill would come at the end of the month. When he say down to pay it off he had to confront the entirety of the money he spent that month. He'd say "what the hell did I spend ${amount} on?" and he'd comb through the transactions and get a much better idea of his spending habits and was able to reduce the purchases that weren't providing him much value.
I honestly don’t get it. Why would you pay a percent or two to be surveilled? It creates a time stamped track log, too, which can be easily cross-referenced with (also surveilled) cellphone position.
https://www.wired.com/2010/12/realtime/
You have to be a tool to do most of your payments with credit cards now.
Some people may not use Gmail, or any free email services. Others use Apple Pay so the acquirer and bank cannot know what items you bought, and the merchant cannot know your credit card number. Finally, some people enjoy having a digital ledger so they know what they spent.
Do you feel your harsh words are justified here?
I get that the merchant is paying it and passing it along to customers. Since they pass it on to me whether or not I use the card (almost always), I might as well take the money.
If you spend $2000 every month, and you get 2% back, then that is $40/month or $480 per year. You also get from $0 to $40 interest per year on the money you haven't used to pay your balance yet, depending on the timing of your income and payment date.
If you don't have a credit card but only a checking account paying 2%, and you spend $2000 perfectly uniformly over the course of each month, then you are getting $20 per year interest on an average balance of $1000.
You have a choice of either $500 with a credit card or $20 without. So 2% <> 2%.
[1]: https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is...
So I tried the cash experiment by looking at what I spent each week then taking enough out in cash for it all. Having to do that quick calculation of how much to give the cashier made me realise just how much I spent on crap. I realised over time I had become blind to the prices of items as I picked them up. I would just grab what I was used to getting. So having to make sure when I got to the check out I had enough cash to pay for it made me look at the price as I picked up an item and keep a running total in my head.
It didn't take long before I shocked myself that I was spending €15-20 every day on lunch. Plus an additional €10 on a coffee. Plus lots of other random €5-15 purchases.
Carrying cash I realised how quickly I burned through it all. It helped me appreciate what you can get for a Euro.
From there I decided to change some of my habits to spend better. I was clearly over-eating (as I was fat and even with "healthy eating" I never lost more than a couple of kilos) so decided to plan my meals out of the home. Then I planned my meals at home to be healthier and cheaper.
Then it was just a good habit to actually check how much I was spending on things before I got to the check out. I read a few articles and skimmed books on how to better spend and save but to be honest it is just common sense and paying attention to what you are buying. Unless of course you are talking large amounts of money but then you should seek some professional advice IMHO which is what I have always done. But when it comes to your day-to-day spending common sense and knowing how much you're spending is key and for me cash helped with that.
Obviously this won't be the solution for everyone but it worked well for me. If you haven't tried it I suggest you commit to it for two months. It is scary to leave you debit card at home and just take cash (I kept my credit card on me but that is only used for emergencies anyway) but do it and see how using cash works for you.
Also just to clarify I don't get cash out every time I go to buy something. That would be a pain in the ass. Instead I take out €800 on pay day, keep 200 in my wallet for that week and put the rest in my office for the rest of the month. Not one week has come to an end with me being on zero. I think the lowest I have ever been was just under 20 remaining.
Then on Sunday night whatever is left over carries over to next week and I take the rest from the initial 800 (well 600 on the second week). Then at the end of the month whatever I have left rolls over to the next month and I get out 800 minus whatever that left over amount is. So if I have 100 left I take out 700 rather than 800 the following month then I transfer that 100 difference into savings right away.
Hope I have explained that in a way that makes sense? :)
Update: Forgot to mention that tracking my spending with cash also changed my relationship with the foods I ate. I have cut right back on meat for example as I realised I was eating processed meat every day so I reduced that to quality meat three times a week. Just that change alone and I lost almost 10KG in a couple of months of no other changes. I went to the doctor to get my bloods checked as at first I was worried something was wrong with me. The doctors response? "well you stopped eating shitty processed meats and started eating more greens, of course you will lose weight". My bloods came back perfect.
So cash forced me to pay attention. There is no reason you can't do that with a card, I just needed the cash method to force me out of my bad habits.
[1]: https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is...
My comment about buying the TV was related to not feeling guilty spending several thousand Euros on a TV because we live off a single salary therefore saving it.
What exactly do you find "unrealistic" about using cash over a debit card for day to day purchases like lunch, grocery shopping and such? This is where I find I "lost" most of my money. Lots of 'invisible' (to me at least) purchases could easily suck over €1000 a month from my account alone. Using cash forces me to think about small but frequent purchases. Looking at my previous spending patterns I save between €350-400 a month by using cash over my debit card. With all of the other changes I have made regarding diet that goes up to over €500. And remember this is just my spending. My wife also saves several hundred by using cash over her card as well as she had fallen into the same trap as I of blindly buying with card and not thinking (much) about what it cost.
Obviously a large purchase I do with a credit card for the added protection but I rarely make large (>€100) purchases.
If you actually touch the money, you can feel easily how much is going out.
Plus, I guess having to go to an ATM to get money out makes it more valuable because you pay everything with both money and time. Good trick
We don’t extend that to our adult spending though.
When I have cash it feels like Monopoly money that I can splash on anything.
When using my card I get instant notifications as soon as I pay and the notification gives a running total to how much I've spent in the day. Also shows me how much money I've got to last me into payday taking into account recurring payments like bills, online-services etc.
For me credit card works just fine. Somehow credit card has never felt to me like a credit instrument. For me it's always been offers, deals (when I have to buy something), free lounge/spa access, and free points. I have also set 3 limit alerts on my main credit card which does my ~90% of expenses usually and last alert means no more use unless something really urgent comes up.
If I need to buy something it goes to my "Buy" list on my todo app and depending upon the urgency either right then or during a sale I just check that "Buy" list and buy all or some of it. I don't buy anything else on impulse except books which are not very often and are not expansive at all. Food/eating out is the only thing I have budgeted. This has worked fine so far. Touch wood!
This was an irritating thing. My wallet has been one card stuffed in the back of my phone case for about 10 years now. One less thing to keep track of. It goes against the grain here, but going 100% cashless has improved things for me and has reduced my spending. The extra points on the credit card are nice and the crud and shrapnel that used to accumulate in and around my wallet are not a thing anymore.
- you consolidate your finances in the minimum number of accounts & cards
- you have a couple of months of expenses as cash in a current or savings account
- you pay off your credit card in full every month
- you invest some amount every month
- all of this is automated - paying bills, credit card repayments, investing, putting money in savings, all of it.
Once you have these things down, you can then adjust percentages, providers and all other details according to your personal situation and preferences.
Fortunately, there are only a handful of small bills that I have that aren’t automated. They’re annoying.
Allegedly I signed up for this, but they could neither produce my signature, nor could they explain the mechanism by which they are allowed to agglommerate onto my internet bill, and a quick call to the ISP removed this surcharge, but wisened me up to how utterly cheap and tawdry an ISP could be.
Direct Debit had best be reserved for actually trusted actors.
"you consolidate your finances in the minimum resilient number of accounts & cards"
I almost lost my iCloud data when my single credit card at the time was compromised and the new card got delayed. I now think one should carry at least two independent credit cards of some sort, if one is paying periodically for critical IT (cloud data, domain names, etc).
Another anecdote: a relative had to pay cash (the venue didn't accept cheques) for an expensive rehearsal dinner, because their only credit card was compromised the day before at a business lunch.
Likewise for emergency funds. I've now split my e-fund between two banks to reduce the risk to paying my mortgage in a financial crisis.
All income goes to vanguard. Each year, we move our total budget for the year to checking. Then, we pay for all spending from checking. We can easily track whether our budget is on Pace at any given time. If we run out of money, we went over. (Technically, we subtract out year end expenses like property taxes to avoid a year End surprise.)
We also have a 30 year budget spreadsheet that estimates our savings, expenses, and income Up too retirement. If we exceed or income goal for the year, we put half towards retirement and half towards a virtual 'bonus discretionary' account. If we exceed our annual budget (have to do an extra transfer from. Vanguard), we deduct that from the virtual bonus discretionary account.
Note that I wouldn't recommend exactly this approach unless 1 years spending is a relatively small amount of your net worth. We only started this technique in our 30's.
Some checking accounts give high interest rates (rewards checking, Sofi, etc.). Plus there's fidelity cash management that acts exactly like a checking account but you can invest the funds in money market.
So whenever I look at the balances on my cellphone and there is "too much" I flush it out to an investment a/c
And when I get a bonus same
So very little active managing tbh.
The way I do it is to budget a yearly (or half year) expenses beforehand and then channel it through whatever account for expenses. I'm lucky enough to live in a very cheap place and make enough so I don't have to live pay-check to pay-check.
If I make more than I think enough to cover my next period, I usually spend that on a new Tech gadget, Travel or into savings. But I rarely save these days as I'm trying to maximize my lifestyle before I'm 70 year-old with too much money and little to do.
Seeing some interesting things in this thread, may be that some of them are normal for Europe or what have you.
Other things talk about automatic this and auto that - but not specific about what makes it automatic? You bank web site?
Interesting just thinking about how some of these things are working, and if there are business account type solutions that are similar.
The jury is still out, but so far it is good.
Setup an auto transaction to move a set amount into a savings account on payday - that way at the end of the pay period when you run out of money, you've already saved how much you wanted to. If you wait till the end of the pay period to save, there will never be any left.
My trick is to increase the amount going into savings every time - just a little. Eventually you'll find the point where you're saving the most you possibly can, and you might need to back it off just a touch.
This maximizes my savings to the point where I work for a couple of years, then I can take years off and drive around the world.
Rinse, repeat.
Better yet, go to payroll and have them split your check, $x or x% in savings and the rest in checking. If you do it by percentage then your savings will grow in proportion to your income.
Even when my employers was on paper forms for direct deposit there was always an option for multiple bank accounts.
I've never NOT had my paycheck deposited into a multiple accounts except for when I was a teenager at my first job.
Payroll will get mighty annoyed with me when I want to change the amount going into a savings account every couple of weeks.
I've been following their philosophy for a while and it's been nothing but positive and very hands off:
- Emergency fund in a BofA account
- Schwab account with a lazy 4 fund portfolio [2]
- 401k with company match
- I am also working towards financial independence (FIRE), see [3]
[1] https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
[2] https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios
[3] https://reddit.com/r/financialindependence
I have a checking account, vanguard account, and fidelity account. The checking account is used for business to pay me. The vanguard account is 100% VTSAX as is the fidelity has account. I’ve just been keeping a couple thousand I the checking and rolling into VTSAX. Should be enough, if VTSAX tanks we need to be buying ammo if anything.
I also churn credit cards. Chase sapphire/capitol one savor/Amex platinum should all get you $500 or more. But if you are making >100k like it seems most people in here are then this is not such a large concern.
- I don’t budget.
- I don’t use spreadsheets or finance apps.
- I don’t have any credit cards, loans, or debt. I don’t care about my credit score because I’m not ever going to get a car loan, electronics lease, or mortgage.
- I don’t own a car. If I did I would buy it with cash and purchase only what was necessary to get from point A to point B safely, with the best gas mileage.
- I have reduced expenses as much as possible, and only buy essentials: Rent, utilities, health insurance, and groceries. I don’t spend money on new gadgets, entertainment, or other things. I read books from the library, I go to the park instead of the movies, etc. I don’t go “shopping” whether online or offline. I don’t buy a new laptop or phone unless my old one breaks and cannot be easily and cheaply repaired (still using MacBook from 2014).
- At the beginning of the week I go to my bank and withdraw cash, and only buy things with this cash. I don’t buy much online except toiletries and cooking oil.
- Instead of budgeting food, I have a simple rule that if I’ve eaten out already in that week, I avoid eating out until the next week. I avoid buying groceries until I’ve eaten most of what’s in the kitchen.
- At the end of every month I log into my bank, check how much money came in, and subtract how much went out. I then invest whatever I feel like out of that month’s profit into a mutual fund. I choose mutual funds as my method of saving because they are liquid, free of management, and simply taxed (capital gains). I have them setup to automatically reinvest earnings. I don’t use IRAs.
- I’m happy with my income now, but in the past when I felt like I didn’t have enough money, I simply focused on the easiest way to earn more money (changing jobs, learning a new skill to change jobs, taking another job, etc.).
An IRA is not necessarily tax advantageous because gains are taxed as income when withdrawn, which is higher than capital gains. The choice to use IRAs is not straightforward. It's also hard to plan for any of this because tax rates can and do change. Capital gains and income tax rates may change, so I generally prefer to pay taxes earlier than later where possible.
I have generally found it more financially rewarding to focus my time on increasing income rather than on finagling my finances to save money. Same reason I don’t own a credit card just to get the cash back or other incentives.
Diverting some of your income into a tax-deferred investment account will not significantly affect your ability to focus on increasing income.
They're not mutually exclusive.
My approach largely resembles yours, but there's no effective difference between increasing income and reducing how much of it is taken from you in the form of taxes. If your priority is to increase your income, deciding to throw some of it into a tax-deferred investment account can be seen as a very efficient use of your time spent increasing your income.
All income from IRAs are taxed, principle and gains. A traditional IRA has gains taxed as income, which is higher then long-term capital gains on ETFs. Assuming tax rates don’t change, a traditional IRA will cost more taxes if the withdrawal and contribution taxable income is over roughly 40k, correct me if I’m wrong. That’s assuming income tax isn’t higher in the future, which is quite a gamble as historically income tax has been going up, and historically there’s just been more and more taxes.
Don’t forget that deductions for contributions don’t matter, because you will pay income tax on that principle when you withdraw. If tax rates increase, the tax cost of deferring could be even worse. It really depends on if you’re going to be earning income when you withdraw and how much is going to be withdrawn. It’s complicated and practically impossible to estimate total final tax obligations at retirement. IRAs are not a cut and dry “just put money in an IRA” decision.
Another problem with IRAs is the lockup. If you withdraw before retirement there’s a hefty 10% penalty unless it’s for a mortgage or health insurance.
I don't get why you're assuming you'll have to withdraw the money prematurely and incur the penalty. That's a rather pessimistic attitude, and it's not like you'd be putting all of your investment funds down this path.
The idea with tax deferral was that when you retire, your fixed withdrawal income will have a lower income tax rate than when you contributed, but as capital gains and income tax are now, that isn’t necessarily true depending on your contribution and withdrawal income.
Roth IRA was then created as a response to the well founded concern that income taxes will rise negating any tax advantage to deferral, but Roth wasn’t able to pass the legislation without severe compromises like contribution limits, and gains taxes as income on withdrawal.
But in the mean time, which can be a very long time, you're free to invest those deferred tax dollars. That can add up to a significant amount, over a large number of years.
It's not something to trivially dismiss.
I'm not a registered tax advisor, so this is not tax advice, but my impression is that you can take money out of a Roth IRA whenever you want, as long as you don't take more than you put in; the profits/returns are tax advantaged, but the original money is after-tax.
The reason why people will argue this is a bad thing to do is because you can only put so much money in per year, like $6,000 currently, and if you take money out, that doesn't add to the contribution limit.
I don’t see how a Roth IRA is really any different than keeping money in a traditional savings account, besides the withdrawal rules.
To first order, if tax rates don't change, and your investment return is the same, then I believe that you end up paying the same with a Roth IRA as a non-Roth IRA, which in turn is significantly less than a taxable account.
But Roths do have some other incidental advantages like I think you don't have a RMD. And if you have uneven income, you can do (partial) Roth conversions whenever your income is low. Which also gets around the contribution limit.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14594858
Why Schwab? They have outstanding customer service. One time I was traveling on Christmas Eve and forgot to place a travel notice on my cards. I called and got a human on the line immediately. This is the norm with their customer service whom I rarely call because 99% of what I want to do can be done via their web site from download tax docs to ordering new checks. Also, when traveling abroad they (1) still fulfill their promise of reimbursing all ATM fees and (2) give an excellent exchange rate. I could not be happier with them as my bank.