Though they are pro India, the word fake sounds like they are fake news, when in fact they are just spinning existing news sites with an Indian positivity spin.
No. It clearly says "fake websites" which is a fairly accurate description of what they are.
> Let's be honest most major states are doing this
I'm sure Sweden and Russia (for example) both have active foreign espionage departments but there's a point where the differences in scale and practice become significant and it's no longer meaningful to say "they both do it".
> Let's be honest most major states are doing this
Maybe if you exclude most western states/countries - not sure I have noticed a pattern of US media talking it up - quite the contrary - and I have not really gotten the impression that press of UK, Australia, France or Germany is in the business of putting positive spins on domestic matters either.
Example: Removing the working time limit? Let's ignore that it's going to lead to more overtime even for those who don't want it, it will increase household revenue! Good news everyone!
> not sure I have noticed a pattern of US media talking it up
Don't you remember when the NYT "credulously" put out stories from Dick Cheney about supposed WMDs in Iraq, which btw were sourced as coming from a "senior administration official" and then Cheney and his cronies then used these reports to actually start a war in Iraq that has resulted in half a million deaths and millions of global refugees? Very little any other country has done could possibly compare with this.
That's ONE negative cartoon, and even that only if you call the author with his stated intentions a liar.
If I scoured Indian media, would I find at least ONE negative cartoon about "the West" or whatever, I wonder? If so, this naturally would justify any volume of attempts to interfere with Indian democracy.
here this should help you get a pretty good picture of BBC's Anti-India bias. From "Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television" published in 2008.
Paywall. The first page, which is the only page I can access, says this is regarding an event dated 29 August 1970.
First, that's fifty years ago so do you have something newer?
Second, this seems to be about the 1975-1977 period when Indira Gandhi expelled all foreign journalists and jailed more than 250 Indian journalists [1] and politicians from the opposition and suspended elections by declaring an Emergency. The BBC was expelled in 1970 as well for broadcasting Louis Malle's documentary Phantom India [2] which showed Indian slums and depicting India in a bad light internationally. They were later invited back in 1972.
Since the same allegations are levelled today at movies like Slumdog Millionaire, all this proves is that a) we still have slums in India, and b) we are still sensitive to criticism.
Thanks, found it. There was a very entertaining Mario Miranda cartoon in it that I hadn't seen before. I daresay it could have been viewed as a very anti-India cartoon today.
Edit: btw I am not saying India is safe by any measure. The official statistics released by government doesn't match with what you say, be it propaganda, reality or just lack of significant funding into researching these stuff.
Without insightful data, how do you plan to combat anything?
'Growing' rape rates has been used as an excuse to form internet surveillance, censorship (porn ban? adult themed movies?) and other faucet of life.
Did that reduce rape rates?
Rapes are increasing? Why?
What is happening in a developing country that makes it more vulnerable to rape cases if its true?
This comment is 100% correct. Media selection bias is real, and the international focus drawn upon a couple incidents of rape a few years ago was disproportionate for lone anecdotes, which is what makes the bias against India in western media apparent. Per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India
> India has been characterised as one of the "countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape".
I'm surprised you haven't been downvoted to oblivion yet. The deplorable 'Hindu' is looked down everywhere from the Western academia, to the Indian constitution.
You see, the BJP troll army has descended on HN. They are all creating new accounts to spread their agenda. Their agenda = BJP good. Everyone else bad & everyone else is "anti Modi anti India anti Hindu pro Christian, pro Muslim Pro Pakistan"
(The last line is exactly what they say on social media)
For what it's worth, the cartoonist, Heng Kim Song, is Singaporean.
American coverage of India's space program has been very positive from what I have seen. If often includes praises of how cost effective it has been, and how wasteful the recent American efforts have been.
"The website hasn't been updated since 19 November, a few days after EU Disinfo Lab first announced its discovery of the network.
The BBC tried calling the phone number on the Times of Geneva's website, but it has been cut off. Its YouTube channel has been disabled and its Twitter account suspended."
Is this how your regular news outlet would behave in reaction to EU Disinfo Lab announcement?
They are pretending to be official outlets, according to the article.
> EU Disinfo Lab's investigation started by looking at EP Today, a website which claimed to be an online magazine for the European Parliament in Brussels.
> EU Disinfo Lab, which is an independent NGO, traced the servers behind the website to Srivastava Group.
These are sites produced en masse with names that belonged to defunct newspapers or confusingly close to existing ones (“Times of Los Angeles”). Surely that fits the definition of fake.
Is that the reason why these fake news outlets which sound like official newspapers were shut down after EU Disinfo lab discovered them? Is that why their websites haven't been updated and twitter and youtube is disabled?
To be honest, everyone has an agenda. So when BBC is critical of ISRO then it is not propaganda, it is just racial bias.
But what these fake news outlets(which include leading mainstream media of India) do is they blame opposition for everything.
A bridge had collapsed in Mumbai due to BJP govt alloting it 1 Rupee for maintenance for that year and all channels were "questioning" the previous congress CM.
"Built during Congress time 45yrs ago. It collapsed! Massive corruption suspected"
They didn't say that BJP spent 1 Re for maintenance.
They find a way to blame opposition about everything. Even now, although economy is screwed BJP wants to polarise the country by "throwing out infiltrators", their genius idea is of making all 130crore people stand in line to prove that they're Indian nationals and their parents are Indian born. So basically everyone needs to give documents of their parents from the 80s!
And when opposition questions it BJP Media says "Opposition doing fear mongering! Owaisi spreading deep hatred!" They literally name opposition leaders and say anything they want to suit BJP agenda
I agree everyone has an agenda but if they are all just playing the same move - Tit for Tat - provoke-react then what happens? Nothing. Stalemate.
Someone has to use some imagination and change the way they play the game. Right now, one day propaganda of one side wins and another day propaganda of another side wins. Its a trap.
One big success of our current BJP-controlled govt in India is their ability to influence and control narrative on specific topics through targeted disinformation. This is not just for internal issues but also for external ones.
To be honest, they aren't influencing, they're threatening media houses. No Indian news outlet except NDTV shows the truth because NDTV is suffering from losses in revenue as Central leaders have boycotted NDTV for showing the truth.
Look at how the anti CAA protests are shown in general media. They're blaming opposition for everything
First time I learnt, news channel become more neutral when they are in loss. Conventional Response is to produce more polarising narrative to gain more views especially a target group that becomes loyal followers.
I remember since my childhood that NDTV has always been critical of the government and that's why I liked it but due to Burkha Dutt, I started to dislike the channel.
Now NDTV is the only channel which reports facts. You see Republic, Zee news etc blatantly spread govt agenda. But that's not because they're in loss, that's because they have sold their soul or never had one to begin with.
Also the media channels which kiss the emperors ring get contracts and are gaining profit. They fear monger and STILL blame the opposition even though BJP has ruled the county for six years. Of course you're surprised, you created a new just to spread propaganda here! But worry not, we won't let it happen and we have downvoting privileges, this isn't Twitter or Face book where the one who shouts the loudest is true
The BBC World Service started broadcasts in Arabic in 1938. That is basically the dawn of modern international propaganda. The media has likely been a hotbed of lies for much longer but our main record of the situation is the media so the evidence is scanty.
With that background, the story here is that the network has been identified and catalogued. Someone somewhere in India is grossly negligent and/or stupid if there isn't an organised group pushing pro-India stories and the general existence of such a thing isn't newsworthy.
> The BBC World Service started broadcasts in Arabic in 1938. That is basically the dawn of modern international propaganda.
In Mein Kampf (1925), Hitler was already complaining about British propaganda having lost Germany WW1, whether or not it was true. Of course, Hitler should be the last person to get away with calling propaganda unfair.
These days it seems to me that everyone is waging information wars against each other in less than fair ways. Each side cherry-picks information (like research or statistics) in a self-serving manner to drown out opposing views with sheer volume, regardless of whether they are ultimately correct or not. Censorship, deplatforming, fake/incomplete/misleading information, shaming, doxxing/getting people fired, etc. are all employed regularly. When facing such strategies, I don’t think either side can be blamed for using any particular tactic - reaching a point of civil discourse requires mutual/societal de-escalation.
In this case, the complaints against CAA seem overblown, and a lot of it hinges on a slippery slope argument about ”what’s next”, where of course the worst is assumed.
> Seeking to allay the "needless fear-psychosis" sought to be created in certain sections of the society, he said the only purpose of the Act is to ensure the wellbeing of the minorities who have been "persecuted on the basis of religion" in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.
> "The Citizenship Amendment Act is not anti-Muslim from any angle and the misconceptions and apprehensions surrounding the Act is unfounded and motivated," Singh told reporters here.
> The Union Minister of State for PMO said since Muslims are neither in minority in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan nor do they face any persecution because of their religious affiliation in these countries which have Islam as their State religion, they are obviously not included in the Citizenship (Amendment) Act.
This seems reasonable to me. There’s a pathway for refugees to seek citizenship, based on claims of religious/cultural persecution. Since the majority in these nations are Muslims, it makes sense that they cannot claim persecution under this law.
> In this case, the complaints against CAA seem overblown, and a lot of it hinges on a slippery slope argument about ”what’s next”, where of course the worst is assumed.
What's next has been plainly stated to be implementation of the NRC [1], which in combination with the CAA will result in Muslims who don't have documentation to prove where their parents were born being rendered stateless. A large number of Indians don't have such documentation, but the CAA ensures only Muslims (being excluded from the whitelist of religious identities listed in the CAA) will be affected. It's not clear what would happen to them: detention centres seem a distinct possibility as some have been constructed and some are slated to be constructed.
The protest are commonly known as the "CAA and NRC" protests, so all this is commonly understood. [2]
> This seems reasonable to me. There’s a pathway for refugees to seek citizenship, based on claims of religious/cultural persecution. Since the majority in these nations are Muslims, it makes sense that they cannot claim persecution under this law.
There are minority groups such as the Ahmadis that are widely persecuted in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. [3] This law would consider them Muslims and therefore ineligible for admission.
The only purpose of the CAA whitelist seems to be to exclude Muslims from becoming Indian citizens. If the law's intent is to help people, it is not reasonable to exclude anyone. If they are excluding people, the law's intention is not what is being claimed. This is why tens of thousands of people are protesting.
63 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 145 ms ] threadLet's be honest most major states are doing this
No. It clearly says "fake websites" which is a fairly accurate description of what they are.
> Let's be honest most major states are doing this
I'm sure Sweden and Russia (for example) both have active foreign espionage departments but there's a point where the differences in scale and practice become significant and it's no longer meaningful to say "they both do it".
Maybe if you exclude most western states/countries - not sure I have noticed a pattern of US media talking it up - quite the contrary - and I have not really gotten the impression that press of UK, Australia, France or Germany is in the business of putting positive spins on domestic matters either.
BBC world service, Deutsch Welte and France 24
Example: Removing the working time limit? Let's ignore that it's going to lead to more overtime even for those who don't want it, it will increase household revenue! Good news everyone!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5156079/brits-post-brexit-over...
It's currently opt out if you want to work more than 48hrs/week, but scrapping that law will make it even better heh
Don't you remember when the NYT "credulously" put out stories from Dick Cheney about supposed WMDs in Iraq, which btw were sourced as coming from a "senior administration official" and then Cheney and his cronies then used these reports to actually start a war in Iraq that has resulted in half a million deaths and millions of global refugees? Very little any other country has done could possibly compare with this.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0143968080231032...
That's ONE negative cartoon, and even that only if you call the author with his stated intentions a liar.
If I scoured Indian media, would I find at least ONE negative cartoon about "the West" or whatever, I wonder? If so, this naturally would justify any volume of attempts to interfere with Indian democracy.
Also, the cartoon you've linked to doesn't seem anti-Indian at all. I get that people complained, but it's a cartoon: quite a gentle one at that.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0143968080231032...
First, that's fifty years ago so do you have something newer?
Second, this seems to be about the 1975-1977 period when Indira Gandhi expelled all foreign journalists and jailed more than 250 Indian journalists [1] and politicians from the opposition and suspended elections by declaring an Emergency. The BBC was expelled in 1970 as well for broadcasting Louis Malle's documentary Phantom India [2] which showed Indian slums and depicting India in a bad light internationally. They were later invited back in 1972.
Since the same allegations are levelled today at movies like Slumdog Millionaire, all this proves is that a) we still have slums in India, and b) we are still sensitive to criticism.
[1] https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/when-media-was-muzzled... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_India
It's a scientific journal. The article is available in sci-hub.
Edit: btw I am not saying India is safe by any measure. The official statistics released by government doesn't match with what you say, be it propaganda, reality or just lack of significant funding into researching these stuff.
Without insightful data, how do you plan to combat anything? 'Growing' rape rates has been used as an excuse to form internet surveillance, censorship (porn ban? adult themed movies?) and other faucet of life. Did that reduce rape rates? Rapes are increasing? Why? What is happening in a developing country that makes it more vulnerable to rape cases if its true?
> India has been characterised as one of the "countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape".
(The last line is exactly what they say on social media)
American coverage of India's space program has been very positive from what I have seen. If often includes praises of how cost effective it has been, and how wasteful the recent American efforts have been.
The BBC tried calling the phone number on the Times of Geneva's website, but it has been cut off. Its YouTube channel has been disabled and its Twitter account suspended."
Is this how your regular news outlet would behave in reaction to EU Disinfo Lab announcement?
> EU Disinfo Lab's investigation started by looking at EP Today, a website which claimed to be an online magazine for the European Parliament in Brussels.
> EU Disinfo Lab, which is an independent NGO, traced the servers behind the website to Srivastava Group.
But what these fake news outlets(which include leading mainstream media of India) do is they blame opposition for everything.
A bridge had collapsed in Mumbai due to BJP govt alloting it 1 Rupee for maintenance for that year and all channels were "questioning" the previous congress CM.
"Built during Congress time 45yrs ago. It collapsed! Massive corruption suspected"
They didn't say that BJP spent 1 Re for maintenance.
They find a way to blame opposition about everything. Even now, although economy is screwed BJP wants to polarise the country by "throwing out infiltrators", their genius idea is of making all 130crore people stand in line to prove that they're Indian nationals and their parents are Indian born. So basically everyone needs to give documents of their parents from the 80s!
And when opposition questions it BJP Media says "Opposition doing fear mongering! Owaisi spreading deep hatred!" They literally name opposition leaders and say anything they want to suit BJP agenda
Someone has to use some imagination and change the way they play the game. Right now, one day propaganda of one side wins and another day propaganda of another side wins. Its a trap.
If BBC spreads something racist about Indians using their channels and Indian media does the same then it doesn't really matter does it?
Propaganda works when it's dumped upon their audience it isn't like Indian Media who sold themselves to BJP government are influential out of India.
But yes, Propaganda is bad.
Not that this invalidates your larger point.
Look at how the anti CAA protests are shown in general media. They're blaming opposition for everything
I remember since my childhood that NDTV has always been critical of the government and that's why I liked it but due to Burkha Dutt, I started to dislike the channel.
Now NDTV is the only channel which reports facts. You see Republic, Zee news etc blatantly spread govt agenda. But that's not because they're in loss, that's because they have sold their soul or never had one to begin with.
Also the media channels which kiss the emperors ring get contracts and are gaining profit. They fear monger and STILL blame the opposition even though BJP has ruled the county for six years. Of course you're surprised, you created a new just to spread propaganda here! But worry not, we won't let it happen and we have downvoting privileges, this isn't Twitter or Face book where the one who shouts the loudest is true
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
With that background, the story here is that the network has been identified and catalogued. Someone somewhere in India is grossly negligent and/or stupid if there isn't an organised group pushing pro-India stories and the general existence of such a thing isn't newsworthy.
In Mein Kampf (1925), Hitler was already complaining about British propaganda having lost Germany WW1, whether or not it was true. Of course, Hitler should be the last person to get away with calling propaganda unfair.
you can see here https://www.barcindia.co.in/statistic.aspx
TRP of NDTV is lowest.
they do have enough Page Rank points on the internet but that too because of their 'tech' subdomain called gadgets ndtv.
ndtv was supporting osama and hizbul terrorists. they sympathize with jihadis.
BBC is known for their hinduphobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_BBC#Anti-Hind...
ndtv is like bbc of india
BBC is known for peddling fake news about India, as are their 'anointed' fact checkers. The venal empire strikes back.
In this case, the complaints against CAA seem overblown, and a lot of it hinges on a slippery slope argument about ”what’s next”, where of course the worst is assumed.
As an example https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/caa-not-anti-muslim-lo...
> Seeking to allay the "needless fear-psychosis" sought to be created in certain sections of the society, he said the only purpose of the Act is to ensure the wellbeing of the minorities who have been "persecuted on the basis of religion" in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.
> "The Citizenship Amendment Act is not anti-Muslim from any angle and the misconceptions and apprehensions surrounding the Act is unfounded and motivated," Singh told reporters here.
> The Union Minister of State for PMO said since Muslims are neither in minority in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan nor do they face any persecution because of their religious affiliation in these countries which have Islam as their State religion, they are obviously not included in the Citizenship (Amendment) Act.
This seems reasonable to me. There’s a pathway for refugees to seek citizenship, based on claims of religious/cultural persecution. Since the majority in these nations are Muslims, it makes sense that they cannot claim persecution under this law.
What's next has been plainly stated to be implementation of the NRC [1], which in combination with the CAA will result in Muslims who don't have documentation to prove where their parents were born being rendered stateless. A large number of Indians don't have such documentation, but the CAA ensures only Muslims (being excluded from the whitelist of religious identities listed in the CAA) will be affected. It's not clear what would happen to them: detention centres seem a distinct possibility as some have been constructed and some are slated to be constructed.
The protest are commonly known as the "CAA and NRC" protests, so all this is commonly understood. [2]
> This seems reasonable to me. There’s a pathway for refugees to seek citizenship, based on claims of religious/cultural persecution. Since the majority in these nations are Muslims, it makes sense that they cannot claim persecution under this law.
There are minority groups such as the Ahmadis that are widely persecuted in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. [3] This law would consider them Muslims and therefore ineligible for admission.
The only purpose of the CAA whitelist seems to be to exclude Muslims from becoming Indian citizens. If the law's intent is to help people, it is not reasonable to exclude anyone. If they are excluding people, the law's intention is not what is being claimed. This is why tens of thousands of people are protesting.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Amendment_Act_prot... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis