I come from a very rough rural town in Kansas, I've personally known dozens of people who worked super hard their whole lives and still died in poverty and despair.
I'm not sure what the correlation is between hard work and success, but it's much weaker than at least ten other factors.
It's not about working hard. It's about working "smart" and hard. You can work crazy hard to dig a hole in the middle of a field, but unless you are actually trying to accomplish a goal, the effort is wasted and leads nowhere.
In much the same way, you can bust your ass working as a cart fetcher at a grocery store, but unless you are intentional about how you are going to use that hard work to leverage yourself into a better position, you are just going to maintain.
Hard work should always be balanced by some amount of self education and intention, or else you run the risk of treading water and getting nowhere.
The reality is that learning is an uncomfortable process. A lot of people find a comfortable rut and they seem to prefer just staying in it. This is why public education is so important. It forces people to give themselves at least a bare minimum amount of education. Just imagine how dumb and poor everyone would end up if parents weren't legally required to educate their kids.
I agree but by the time you realize anything, you are pretty much burnt. Everyone around you pushes you to become like them in poverty. I have experienced it...now I do stupid things because I want peace instead of going against the momentum. I don't have energy to be smart to get belittled and thrown rocks at every time. It sucks!
Nobody in Kansas is wasting their time trying to dig a pointless hole to China, they are all pinching every penny and coming up with every hack, innovation, and shortcut they can to get by.
The fact that you think people who failed must be stupid or slow learners says a lot about your worldview.
I grew up in a large family, and we moved over 10 times during my childhood. My parents moved our family every time we needed (like when my dad was laid off and couldn't find work).
It's a complete cop-out to say that only young men with no obligations can do such a thing. My parents had tons of obligations and responsibilities, and they found a way to move when necessary.
People get way too attached to the idea of staying in one place their whole lives. The world is a big place.
> Working hard while thinking hard and taking risks has made me wealthy
I'm sure there are plenty of people who did the same and failed.
There are always many factors to consider but I would say the key one is luck. With a bit of luck you can easily miss one of the others (working hard for example) and still become successful.
This is where statistics are important to consider. If you do a task with a 20 percent chance of success but you do it 10 times, your chance of succeeding at least once becomes close to 100 percent. Many people balk at their first or second failure and stop trying, when the key is to keep trying over and over, learning and improving the entire way.
For a multi-million dollar potential unicorn? Almost nobody even gets one chance. But for a small business started on the side and slowly grown? Anyone middle-class can in the US IMO. You don't need investors or massive loans to start a small business in your free time, just customers that can be earned through word-of-mouth when starting out. Capital grows exponentially, so even small profits can compound into something significant if reinvested.
You do need enough free time to start said small business, though, as well as enough capital (even if not "massive loans"). For many people those requirements are pretty tough.
And don’t forget how many people have clauses in their employment agreements saying that any IP they develop on or off the clock belongs to the company.
Totally agree, but this is something hard to grasp for many people.
What's also important is to realize the external constraints. You should always plan to allow a couple of failures before reaching the end of the rope instead of going all in in the first try.
Taking your example if I can only do the task 3 times (for whatever reason: budget, etc) then my chances for success are a lot lower compared to a competitor who can play the game longer.
EDIT:
Also it's important to learn and internalize that knowledge after each try. In most cases you can't do the same thing each time and expect a different outcome.
Without a safety net, the cost of failure is often too high to not balk at the first or second failure. Those fortunate enough to fall out of the right womb have the privilege of failing many many times without significant consequences.
26 startups here. All but the last personal failures. Personal in that several people became independently wealthy from my companies. Now I have found my niche in the world. I don't have to work hard but the harder I work the better I do.
Yes, our mileages may vary because what you've described could be survivorship bias from a lucky break. And since costs don't scale with wealth, any future risks you take can be absorbed by the original luck.
Exactly. HN in particular has a strong survivorship bias.
Startups in the typical SV sense are not the way to wealth, any more than professional sports. The folks with rare talent, and the folks around them that can glom onto those people, have a small chance of making a lot of money.
It's crucial to work hard, but FOR YOU, not for your employeer. I have a family member who worked very hard at her dead-end job (was very loyal to the company) and became bitter after they fired her (made redundant because of computerization). If she spent part of that energy on strategising on how to get ahead in her career, she'd be in much better position.
I think the point is if you reach a certain level of wealth your money starts working for you, and you really don’t have to do anything to get increasingly wealthier.
This is an extremely reductive view of rich-vs.-poor. By "reductive" I don't mean wrong, per se -- just that there can be an awful lot more to how much wealth one has than one's beliefs about What To Do With Money.
For years of my life I was, if not precisely "poor," simply not making enough to save a material amount of money. I was nearly 30 before I got the first job that paid me $25K a year. I was not, IIRC, in serious debt then, but savings had never been an option before then -- and what I used those newfound riches to do was move out of the apartment I'd been living in, in an area of Tampa known as "Suitcase City" due to its transient population. (It was also known for high levels of crime.) I still wasn't able to save until that same job's salary was "readjusted for the market" to a whopping $36K.
There are things I didn't know then, sure; the company I was at had a 401(k) plan and I contributed to it, but I wasn't contributing at any higher level than the company matched. When my salary hit (gasp) $50K, that was almost certainly a mistake, but I didn't know that. When I was laid off I had maybe $10K in savings and another ~$15K in investment. By some standards I was still poor, but it was not because I "saw money as something to be spent buying more things" -- it was in part because I didn't know much about the best ways to save for retirement, but in part because I just wasn't making a whole lot of money. Rich people certainly "see money as capital to create more opportunities with," but heartwarming anecdotes about grocery baggers who became multimillionaires notwithstanding, statistically speaking, rich people also tend to hit relatively high incomes pretty quickly in life. (They also are likely to come from similarly rich families, which matters more than we often like to admit.)
His "reductive view" of rich vs poor is an answer to a very specific statement regarding Lottery winner and Sports Athletes which has been discussed many times with the same conclusion: they're just not good at managing money.
Right, and how can you expect them to be? If you throw a bunch of money into a poor person's lap, it's not like they magically have the knowledge and know how to invest it.
This is one argument against UBI - money increase alone isn't enough, the knowledge increase needs to come from somewhere as well, and that's not something you can get in the mail.
That's actually argument _for_ UBI -- knowledge at managing money comes from having any money to manage. (Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible)
There is a certain amount of knowledge that comes from the experience of managing money, yes. But also, the financial world has a lot of jargon and pitfalls that are aren't exactly easy to learn, especially as a high school dropout with no math background and no educated parents to turn to for help.
The _truth_ about UBI is that a lot of poor people's UBI is going to get completely eaten by predatory opportunists and then they will be in the same situation they are in. What they lack is mentorship. Without mentorship from people good at managing money, UBI (I predict) will not help the poor as much as you think - it will mainly help the educated middle class.
For example, there is a (poor, uneducated) lady in my church receiving the equivalent of UBI from the state of Maryland. However, despite "having money to manage" she has not spontaneously gained knowledge in managing money. I sat down with her once to help see if there was something more she could be doing to stop being in crisis mode all the time, and it was insane how many "bills" she was paying that weren't even real bills. There's this dark network of predators out there that send out mail with a red stamp that says "Payment Due by 1/22/2020". It looks like a bill. But if you read closely, it's actually not a bill but some home security service they are trying to trick you into buying. An educated person tears it up and throws it away. An uneducated person thinks it's a bill to pay and loses a fraction of their UBI. Another fraction of her UBI was going toward utilities she wasn't even using. One bill was nearly $70 from Comcast for cable TV, but I pointed out that she didn't even own a TV. We freed up nearly $200/month that day just by cancelling services she wasn't using and throwing away fake bills.
> Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible
Schools didn't used to have to teach you every basic skill needed to thrive in society. You could pick those up on your own if you are motivated, or through your parents.
But I expect a lot will not, and if a certain percentage of people in your network have a not horrible money management skill, chances you can find somebody to help. Or even just hear casual mentions of some of the things you did for that lady. Eventually most of the people will be ok.
That lady was lucky she knew you. But what should have happened is her sister, or friend, or neighbor, or grocery store cashier, should have been able to smack some sense into her long ago.
Some protections will be necessary for sure. I think there are some anti-gouging laws on the books already, and that fake bill should be classified as fraud if it is not already. Bigger potential money stream for organised crime will motivate enforcement, I'm sure.
Schools teach about traffic lights and using microsoft word. Somewhere between those some budgeting and compound interest lessons would fit right in. Society change and will keep changing, schools might as well keep up.
I upvoted this post and downvoted the post two levels up because I think that we need UBI just because work as the vehicle to share economy's gains to people is slowly breaking down. What's the alternative?
It is a shame that scammers can exploit people that easily. But I think that just giving money to people wouldn't solve all problems anyway. Work, for example, is more than just a means of income. It is also a source of recognition, and missing recognition would make many people unhappy.
Well, you can at least be told how to manage your money better -- you can't be forced to get better at it, but the combination of someone telling you how savings work and actually having enough left over to save really does matter.
Up until my mid-30s, "savings" meant building up enough of a cushion that when my current wobbly job collapsed, I'd be able to make it to the next wobbly job without going into serious debt. I understood about retirement savings at that point, but there were years I not only didn't have a 401(k) accessible to me but couldn't even fully fund my IRA. If I'd had a UBI of, say, $1K a month like Andrew Yang's proposal -- or even $750 a month -- it would absolutely have changed my relationship to savings. My IRA contributions would easily have been $50K or more than they are now, which would likely put me $100K+ ahead of where I am in savings by now.
> Well, you can at least be told how to manage your money better
Exactly my point - who is going to be doing this in the case of UBI? Written instructions that come with the check? Charitable middle class mentors? Paid gov't employee?
Sure, it's a good question, and it's not an easy one to answer. The way I learned was honestly closest to "written instructions that come with the check," in that it was just reading information rather than being mentored. I suspect if I ran a UBI program, I would indeed work on some kind of basic instruction about finances that could be stuffed in with checks. But I'd also be trying to figure out some way to measure effectiveness of that sort of insert, ideally along with a few other trial programs. There's only so much you can realistically do, so metrics are pretty essential.
I recalled Google also did a similar session before they went IPO. They hired someone to teach their employees how to manage the money.
I have to say though that Personal Finance is one of those "must-have" skill that school SHOULD HAVE taught in the first place. I still don't get WHY they did not. Even the basic (more than just "save your money" advise) such as life+health insurance, retirement, budgeting (let's leave out mortgage and investment).
Personal Health should be next. I know, I know, they have PE. But I'd like to see some basic Personal Health knowledge from "sleeping" to "eating-well". How to read ingredients from those junk foods.
This is maybe kinda true up to a point, but it's not really a full causal accounting. Most poor people are poor because they don't have enough money, and mindset alone won't help them get ahead.
I used to work a minimum wage job at a supermarket, and I didn't have any spare money to "create more opportunities with", even if I'd wanted to. The highest ROI thing I could do was invest in my education, but that would have been nearly impossible without the generous scholarships and grants I eventually received.
*After a certain level of wealth _and knowledge of investment markets_, your money will work for you.
For the majority of people reaching a certain wealth point, they leveled up their knowledge with their incoming cash flow. For lottery winners and sports stars, they got plopped in the middle of level 20 among the sharks.
Once you get some wealth you probably shouldn't be running your own investments. You will probably have someone taking care of your portfolio and giving you the bullet points every now and then.
> It's crucial to work hard, but FOR YOU, not for your employeer.
If you have enough starting wealth, it's not crucial to work hard.
If you have too little starting wealth, or don't have exceptional talent, or are just unlucky, working hard for yourself either isn't an option or still won't payoff.
If you have the right combination of not too much and not too little starting wealth, plus talent, plus luck, then, sure, working hard (either for yourself or for others, plenty of people have made it work each way) can be crucial.
I don't think the GP meant "you must work for a business you started" - I think they meant "even if you're working AT $bigco, you should be working FOR yourself".
It's a lot easier to get lucky and strike oil if you have already done a bunch of research beforehand and were digging in an area that was likely to have oil
I would add 4): favorable conditions. This can mean being at the right place at the right time, being born into the right family or meeting the right people. Or you could put this under luck.
Baloney - those are the requirements for one type of success. What if I don’t want to start a company or sell my idea to clients?
I am successful because I live below my means, and spend a lot of time with my loving family.
Hard work has definitely been part of my journey, but hoping for ‘luck’ is a foolish plan. If you live like you won’t be lucky (avoid debt, save for a rainy day, invest wisely and conservatively for retirement), you’ll wind up successful either way.
Pithy, perhaps, but not entirely justified. For example, the implied causation might actually be reversed, that people who naturally trust institutions consume more news. The causal relationship could also be external to both: some other factor, like financial stability, causes people to believe in institutions and to consume more news. Or, the cause could even be direct, but much less cynical: The news may accurately inspire justified confidence in institutions. (Conversely, people who prefer to make up justifications or excuses might blame institutions and prefer to not expose themselves to news that discomforts that worldview.)
Parts of this are commonplace:
"Fifty-seven percent of respondents worry about losing the respect and dignity they once enjoyed in their country."
Sure. Decisions are made top-down, expertise is discounted, etc. The culture has drifted.
But then this frightening (to me) non-sequitur (to me):
"Fifty-six per cent of the surveyed global population said capitalism in its current form does more harm than good in the world."
Based on available data, abandoning capitalism makes all these problems much worse, plus overshadows them with questions of basic survival.
Framing it as a dichotomy isn't particularly helpful here.
"Capitalism in its current form" is the key phrase here - this includes crony capitalism, environmental devastation, disgusting levels of inequality, and sometimes even a total disregard for human life and health. (All depending on the country in question of course)
A state run economy isn't necessary to fix these. It's possible to believe that capitalism does more harm than good, right now, and that the system can be fixed while remaining capitalistic
I could be wrong but that's what I assume people are moving in favor for.
I haven't seen any evidence that tankies are more than just a tiny minority on the internet, but I would be equally terrified to see the future they would impose.
It would be more accurate to say unfettered capitalism does more harm than good.
I don't think most people want to grow a gnarly beard, take up hammer and sickle, and overthrow the bourgeois. People generally like the fact that Apple releases a new iPhone with a better camera every year, and that Gmail reminds them of that doctor's appointment they scheduled six months ago.
What they don't like is that the benefits of automation and increased productivity are going almost exclusively to the one percent. What they don't like is that a college degree is now minimal criteria for jobs that logically should not require one, and that the cost of that degree consumes the supposed salary benefits of having one. What they don't like is the fact that we're watching our ecosystem collapse in real time, and massive polluters tell us that it's our fault for using plastic straws.
People aren't calling for a switch to Soviet-style communism, they're asking for their agency back. They want to be paid wages that are fair, wages that allow them to pay the rent and put food on the table. They want to be able to retire, and they don't want to have to become Wall Street savants in order to achieve that goal. They want to be able to have their health needs taken care of without bankrupting themselves and their family.
Capitalism has made great contributions to our way of life. But unfettered capitalism, or worse, capitalism where the incumbents are protected by legislation, are syphoning off all of the value in our economy, leaving nothing for the everyday person. That cannot continue.
I understand your intent, but what people "want" reads like an utopian wishlist. It's not clear that any strategy sustainably can take us there.
All regulations are tweaks to free market capitalism, and more are definitely needed. But do you think that the masses that are rallying up behind authoritarian governments around the world are taking a view as nuanced as yours? I fear they are not.
>I don't think most people want to grow a gnarly beard, take up hammer and sickle, and overthrow the bourgeois.
I disagree about the beard part. American men may not be interested in overthrowing the bourgeois, but they sure do like gnarly beards these days. And American women won't date a guy without a beard.
Unfettered capitalism would do way more good than current-day crony capitalism. In fact, many people, namely libertarians, think it would do much more good than even honest capitalism.
Hard work always has to be accompanied by being aware of reality around you. Working for UPS I saw all the ways my job could be automated and I knew it was a temporary thing.
I think the hardest thing about our forthcoming economy is that the only jobs that are going to be left are going to be ones a lot of people can't even do because they don't have the talent or smarts. But at the same time a lot of very important jobs are being left undone because we don't value them. For instance: social work, psychiatric health and childcare.
If you are in tech and play your cards right, you can start to pull away and get yourself into a position where you can live off of investments and your net worth.
The key is to work hard when you start out, save, invest, and live cheaply.
This helps. The cost of living keeps a lot of people out and there's a lot of competition for the folks that are here.
In smaller markets the same supply and demand exists, but there are far fewer options and possibly less willingness on the part of employers to compete for new hires.
A tech business in a smaller market might be growth constrained by a lack of talent and that may be fine. Tech employers in the bay area are generally under a lot of pressure to grow.
Centralized. Jobs are found either in midtown or downtown, and subway lines feed into both. Your commute will be dependent on how much you spend to be near work, but even a non expensive area (like eastern Bed Stuy or Crown Heights) doesn't have a commute more than 40-45m. You can also be lucky enough to be able to walk to work if you don't mind living in Manhattan, and spending more for a nearby neighborhood.
That's pretty deeply incorrect, I'm sorry. I think you mean you can rent a room in an apartment with roommates for 1K a month, which is the going rate unless you're in a luxury area.
Still nope. Several of the Brooklyn listings are scams: top link is a 4 BR for 900 in Bushwick, which speaks for itself. The others are NOT near Manhattan (these NJ spots like Newark, Montclair, even Bayonne are not considered close because of very long commute times). Gravesend is not anywhere near Manhattan. The list goes on, I just addressed page one. Streeteasy has more realistic listings.
> Only for as long as it takes you to build your personal network and resume so that you can demand the same pay elsewhere. Anchor your salary as high as possible as quickly as possible to establish what you're worth and then move.
How would I justify a Bay area salary to Dutch companies?
Also, visa sponsoring is hard. Triplebyte and the like never considered me.
> Bay area tech beaucoup bucks in flyover country is a recipe for early retirement.
Does anyone get paid bay area rates in other areas? I have never heard of this. I work remotely for a bay area company and get paid based on local rates.
Seriously. Good luck arguing for 400k total comp in Kansas or wherever when there are local engineers perhaps even senior to you who’ve been happily working for upper 5 figures all their career.
This is ridiculous. Those are three great ways to build wealth. There are infinite other ways, from starting a small business, to working your way into management, to simply saving and investing in a smart way. Where would you get the confidence to say these are the only three paths, and that's it?
Sure, you could have a dusty useless ranch that produces nothing until you pound the dirt and black gold floweth, or win the lottery, but these are the most likely options today.
I think you need to define ‘best’ here. 80% of American millionaires today are first generation wealth, so if by ‘best’ you meant ‘most likely’, you’d be wrong.
Right, but how many of those billionaires started as millionaires (or were born into a millionaire family)? When you have generational wealth, it's much easier to take risks.
That's what has been true until how. But is it still true for the future? Interest rates are low, money is cheap. The rare resources are connections and cleverness.
If you inherit wealth, it's likely that you also got some connections. But life in that rich bubble, does it prepare the heir for the future where change is happening faster than ever before?
>It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It
It's difficult to take advantage of change when your wealth depends on maintaining the status quo.
Completely secure investments have low interest rates, sure. But, imo, this argument falls apart if you look at investing into any form of real estate and any semi-desirable area.
I'm confused, the headline and start of this article claim "people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life", but I can't find the supporting data anywhere in the article or the survey itself [1]? The survey does suggest that people in some places are pessimistic about their economic or social futures (divides pretty neatly as "you're optimistic if and only if you live in a developing country") but I don't know where the "working hard" bit is coming from.
It mentions this question is asked in a survey: "My hard work will be rewarded” with a score from 1 to 9. (reverse scored) POP_MDCr18
But you are right, I couldn't find the data to see how this question was answered.
I agree and I think this brings up an interesting point: given the liquidity in the public stock market, employees are often more invested in the long-term success of the company than shareholders. For this reason, I think it's essential that employees are represented in a company's ownership structure if we want to ensure the long-term health of our economy.
that is what happens in debt driven world when progress stops and statistics lie. the "wealth" is created by printing money and acquired by those with better access, inflation indices do not account for things that actually matter - housing, education, healthcare
We're conditioned to only think of rates as opposed to the integral of those rates over time.
AKA economists constantly hammer that since difference between wage inflation and rent inflation is 'small' there is no problem. And if you say otherwise you're a moron. Consider the result of that 40 years though.
You are right I will have to look at the guidelines book at some point. My feeling they cannot possibly be right because observed wage stagnation combined with observed costs should never converge to low inflation. Do they even consider mortgages maturity length and interests when looking at monthly payments?
My view of stoppage is that most of us are doing exactly the same jobs as we would 50 years ago. Yes, we have a sizable army of software developers, but outside of our silo things are not moving
It requires self denial, I’m surprised so many people gloss over this.
After all, you could have taken that $25k out and spent it on yourself or on a vacation.
A lot of people’s nest eggs are much smaller than they could have been because they choose to do something else with their money, either out of necessity of pleasure.
Market goes up and down. As long as that money is not realized, it is still just a number in a computer. When we need the money, it better be there and not actually less than what we put there.
Markets have gone up...10 years and running now. Last 13 of 15 weeks have ended green. This is unprecedented. We haven’t had a -1% day in months.
Do I think it will go down sometime? Yes of course. And I’ve hedged accordingly. But people who are scared to invest are missing a once in a lifetime opportunity.
So let's say at the 21st year, the stock crashed. The crash needs to be more than 50% in order for you to lose your capital money.
First, I believe you can tell your financial institution if you want to cash out.
Second, by the time you retire, usually you don't put your money in high-risk investment but instead if something more "reliable" so the chance you get hit with 50% lost should be at minimum.
"by the time you retire, usually you don't put your money in high-risk investment but instead if something more "reliable" so the chance you get hit with 50% lost should be at minimum."
If you retire. You might die before retirement age. Also, by the time you retire you might be too infirm or sick to even enjoy your retirement. Many people also have such a crappy work/life balance that they don't know what to do with themselves when they retire, so they're miserable even when they retire.
I guess what I'm saying is that there's something to be said for sometimes living for the present instead of always living for the future. Balance in all things.
That's the thing: you can both live in the present and prepare for the future. It's all about budgeting.
Saving money does not mean you have to live below poverty line. It means you have to "live within your means" => "balance in all things". The hardest thing in life is to deal with "change", in this case, "changing your lifestyle". Those who are not used to "live within their means" will absolutely struggle to do so down the line.
Nobody suggest anyone to put away as much money as possible and live miserably. If we go back to the simplify calculation above given the situation where one cannot afford to travel abroad _right now_, investment can help them with that problem! Nobody say not to touch your investment before you retire. You can withdraw occasionally for reasonable splurge.
Friend of mine made $100k/year from 2015 to 2020 by buying and selling a house. The US's obsession with passive income is insane and is going to utterly fuck us.
Would you say the same to someone who has been holding Amazon stock for 10 years? Or Apple? Or has a home in SF?
Unrealized gains are gains. Of course it can go down but no one should subtract that number from their wealth. Appreciating assets are what make most people wealthy.
What if the OP sold and immediately bought another asset that had similarly appreciated? What if they sold, changed their mind, and immediately re-bought the same asset? In both these cases the "made" 25K (or somewhat less if we factor in cap gains tax) is in a similarly precarious position to the just-keep-holding case.
Is it the case that to have "made money" you need to take that money permanently out of play? Does that in turn mean then when you invest money that money shouldn't count toward your net worth because it might lose value in the future?
No, it won't. Working smart will though. Designing your life so passion, mission, and connection are overlapping. It is very possible to be fulfilled by your work while earning a good living and making a difference in the lives of others.
I’m always reminded of professional athletes. To be in the top 1% you pretty much need the genetics (inherit it). But that doesn’t mean you won’t get healthy by working out.
You will probably never be a professional athlete, but if you want to be healthy you must be disciplined with what you eat and work out, and you will become healthy.
You will probably never be 1% rich, but you still must be disciplined with how you spend your money and your time, and you can become wealthy.
You're underestimating luck. A better analogy would be a process that selects for the top 2% of athletes through competition, then enters them into a lottery.
I was forced to work less hard by my employer who was paying by the ticket, and that stumped my creativity badly, and the seniors basically told me they're just planning to retire on a slow burner career.
Success these days is mostly about bowing down and impressing the executive branch, which will reward your achiever attitude, according to their standards.
That said, im kind of fresh to work, and those guys got kids.
I think hard work is something reserved for hard things, and maybe what we consider hard work is just misidentification with a job, we on the cost of spiritual growth?
I think were just confused, since what was hard is these days no longer that, and we’re experiencing a sort of midway shift.
Unless youre someone like ghengis khan, or richard feynman, or elon musk/co.
I think there are different hierarchies to climb in different ways, and hirarchies seem to be distributed in such a way that ass-kissing climbup one makes the majority of the total, still isnt the only one tho, or way.
Wanna hear something funny? I saw a youtube/national geo. Video about chimps, actually about the ass-kissing hiera.
There was a young imp who was helping the aging alpha, he wasnt the strongest, but he was still made alpha by the old alpha, and the grooming kept happening after said appointmment. Funny thin is, the strongest chimp wasnt chosen, and was second in command! He could beat both in single combat, but not while both teamed up.
So i guess the ass kissing stuff has a role, i guess it selects for team players ... but damn man fo they Get toxic and abusive. It sorts of gives the impression that were not worth keeping around ... but then i see someone save a dog and my heart melts for our species.
The Khan may have stepped on the necks of Kings and raped queens on a whim, but you can bet he still took care of his own and placated the right people to give him that power to ravage the world outside his Mongols.
"Despite strong economic performance, a majority of respondents in every developed market do not believe they will be better off in five years' time."
"Fifty-six per cent of the surveyed global population said capitalism in its current form does more harm than good in the world."
Developed markets represent a tiny portion of the "global population".
By and large globalism has caused significant income inequality in developed markets and declining social mobility. This seems problematic until one discovers that in the same 40 years billions of people have been raised out of extreme poverty by globalism and have access to education and health resources that didn't previously.
>This seems problematic until one discovers that in the same 40 years billions of people have been raised out of extreme poverty by globalism and have access to education and health resources that didn't previously
I really think wealth inequality is a terrible metric for overall social wellbeing because it does not consider that the baseline has risen. It just comes off as a greedy attitude to be salivating over your neighbor's plate simply because it is larger, even though yours is quite full.
> I really think wealth inequality is a terrible metric for overall social wellbeing because it does not consider that the baseline has risen. It just comes off as a greedy attitude to be salivating over your neighbor's plate simply because it is larger, even though yours is quite full.
Rationally, I'd say that you were correct, but that does nothing to address the feelings of the folks missing the "American Dream".
We don't get many people posting from rural parts of the third world, so thanks for posting!
Just out of curiosity, what do you do with your all your spare time? Is there really nothing you can do with your spare time that'll help you get ahead? Something like education, maybe? Or doing something for your community that'll be valued and gain you some valuable skills or experience?
Also, is there any way you could move somewhere where you feel you have more opportunity or maybe work remotely?
What about making contacts with and impressing people who might be able to give you a chance at work?
This will be long and may backfire. I apologise if it's not as constructive or straightforward (I am at my limit).
I have been a completely useless shut in for the past 6 months. In August, my PC's motherboards PCI slot stopped working (b350 from Asus). I wasn't and still am not in a position to fix it. I have a 10 year old laptop which barely works for anything even with just debian + i3wm. I can't do much on it except reading. Before that, I used to contribute on GitHub occasionally and code stuff.
I dropped out of high school in the starting of 2019 after well, sudden "accidents". It wasn't a hard decision by then. I had given up on formal education temporary, I focused on getting long due medical help and support. I had to do it all myself again, being burnt already it was pretty hard to carry yourself to doctors and then filter through fraud [0]. There is a major lack of good healthcare where I live, especially related to mental health even by national standards. I experienced a few disappointing appointments which resulted in bit of superstition, horrible shaming and ignorance.
I changed and traveled around - got ton of pills prescribed at the end and that's it. Nothing helped much and I gave up on that temporary. I also had other piled up issues including physical health concerns from years of ...
Before I actually decided to act last year, I was also cured by religious ramblings and stuff for last 3 years and negligence for past 8 years. There is bit of antisocial behaviour due to my dad locking me up inside house most of the time throughout my childhood and early teens.
Anyways, I tried to move multiple times in the past through boarding school or other ways. My family eh...you know. I had to hop around 7 schools just so I will give up on some ideas and be tired.
I didn't drop out of school plainly out of how horrible that environment is (I was beaten up, shamed and couldn't handle normal interaction because it seemed toxic). You are forced to write notebooks of literal gibberish and then be graded down, punished for actually doing anything right. One example from my IT teacher, I was marked down, vilified and then told to stand outside the class because I asked why she marked me down on a simple question (example of ISPs). She said chrome and firefox are ISPs. This happened too frequently... I don't think I have learnt one single thing from school other than bullshitting and licking to the authority.
I could take it but then I developed servere anxiety, body dysphoria and bipolar. The amount of things to handle increased exponentially.
My family is malfunctioned. Other than providing food and bit of cash, they won't do anything I think or have done so far.
They all have problematic backgrounds. My dad especially, after losing his wife and few kids. I think this will spread more light - https://notably.cc/#/note?id=oz9fMjsOa
The environment is pretty shit. Not much expected though. Most people seem obnoxious, highly religious, ignorant and are hostile. Body dysphoria or mental health isn't taken very healthily here...
I am legally not hirable and there aren't any jobs here. I have done some freelance work in the past (still have Bitcoins left in my wallet). After stagnation and lot of koolaid, I looked out for startup opportunity because nothing else made sense and I need-ed money to get any help or even move forward.
You can notice it from my first thread here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853500
I cooked some landing pages, put forms in different places to validate and find market fit. As a recent example, I put a shitty web page for another thing (it's incomplete)(https://ideacrate.xyz).
It seems that you have all sorts of issues in your life that go far beyond your location in a rural, third world area, and probably won't be solved simply by moving somewhere else -- though having some local job opportunities might help.
I fully understand and can relate to what you're going through. One thing I've been recently been getting really interested in that might help those for whom more conventional approaches have failed is psychedelic therapy (particularly with ayahuasca, MDMA, and psylocibin). I'm not sure if any of that is available where you are, but it might be worth looking in to, or maybe in to some kind of shamanic/traditional healing approaches. The other thing I'm not quite sure about is if these approaches would be counterindicated for someone with bipolar disorder. I'd definitely be careful and read as much as possible about anything you might be considering, and only doing these things (should you decide to do them) under well respected and experienced guides.
Something else to consider is adopting a regular meditation practice. That could help deal with stress and many of the struggles you're encountering. Exercise could help too, as it often provides energy and boosts mood.
Also, I think making deep, meaningful connections with people is important. They could help support you emotionally and provide opportunities for you, and you might also be able to help them.
Aiding others and being of service can be very healing and can help with self-esteem and fulfillment. You can make a difference in people's lives, and that can help lead to something and open avenues for you that are unpredictable for you at this point.
I know you said the people in your area don't seem very likeable to you, but there could be some good, interesting people among them, and it could be worth the effort of seeking them out. Also, often appearances can be deceiving, and someone who might seem off-putting at first glance might have more to them, and that hidden depth could be revealed if you got to know them better.
Finally, I know that when we're really down it's very difficult to do anything and we are strongly tempted to just give up. This tendency is made worse by focusing on the negative things in the world and in our lives. I think this is something like a very negative version of self-hypnosis, where we convince ourselves that things are hopeless and getting worse and worse and worse. It's important for us to shift this sort of self-hypnosis in to the opposite direction.. not in a polyannaish, unrealistically optimistic way, but in a way that helps rather than hurts. Try to focus on what you have that you are grateful for, on the positive things in your situation and in yourself, and on the opportunities in the world around you. I wish you the best.
I turned 16 recently. I doubt psychedelics treatment is available here legally let alone allowed for underage people.
I am still restricted by a lot.
I do meditate. Making deep meaningful connections is pretty hard if not impossible now. I haven't done it once even when I wasn't this terrible. How am I supposed to do that now?
Do you know that I hear when you tell me that? Massive, tremendous potential. Almost a volcano of raw potential in front of you. So many things are open to you now, just considering how much time you have left ahead of you (should you not die or become incapacitated, of course).
I'm almost at a loss of what to say, because there are just so many possible ways for your life to go now.
If you really feel cooped-up in the rural area you're in now, you could try moving to an urban area and try to make it there, no matter how difficult it might be. Some people wind up getting stuck in really miserable and dangerous situations doing that, especially if they try to do that when they're young, but others make it.
Really, I would make seeking out and meeting people you resonate with, who you admire and like a top priority. Find people who are your heroes, meet them in person, and get their advice. You might not be able to do that now, but I'd make it a long-term goal. You could also try emailing them or connecting with them through social media. Some people will be glad to help. Also, you could find people adults who are doing good things in your area and talk to them in person and get their advice.
Also find your peers who are on the same wavelength as you.. it's easier than ever to do that now on the internet, but see if you can find them in real-life too.
I know it's hard. I struggle with it too. But you have a huge advantage in that you're still at a formative stage when you actually have a very good chance of changing both your behavior and your outlook on life. It gets much, much, much harder to do that when you get older and you've lived with the same ossified, fossilized bad habits for decades, and you've been shut in in your own room for 20 years or something. Then the inertia becomes terribly hard to break. You hardly have any of that inertia because of how young you are. You can change for the better.
Just, really, try to find good people. Connect. Be open, friendly, helpful. Good things will most likely come of this with time.
> Do you know that I hear when you tell me that? Massive, tremendous potential. Almost a volcano of raw potential in front of you. So many things are open to you now, just considering how much time you have left ahead of you (should you not die or become incapacitated, of course).
I can paste raw data combining my issues and associated risks/success rate. Future suddenly looks bleak from the comparison. Potential is capped more by location, family, genes, qualification, environment etc than age. High school drop outs suffer more on the long run, especially here. Being born in poverty increases your chance of ending in poverty. Those disorders are associated with short term burn, lower life expectancy, less fulfilment, lower income, higher risk of addiction and 6x increased chance of suicide or early death. My other problems certainly lower the bar even more (different forms of abuse and trauma).
If we are being considerate, you would certainly take average as a baseline for your reachable potential. I don't see how that is good at all.
Though, it likely doesn't matter.
> Really, I would make seeking out and meeting people you resonate with, who you admire and like a top priority. Find people who are your heroes, meet them in person, and get their advice. You might not be able to do that now, but I'd make it a long-term goal. You could also try emailing them or connecting with them through social media. Some people will be glad to help. Also, you could find people adults who are doing good things in your area and talk to them in person and get their advice.
I have done that already at least online. I have found some genuine constructive advice like you have added above. I think main issue really comes from facing reality hammer and a terrible exhaustion.
Everything needs a positive experience to continue. I lack that spark. Currently, if you asked me what I wished for. You wouldn't get any answer. That is the_root_problem. While extra money is always good and helping, but it doesn't provide big of an incentive to put work at this stage in this form. Other than, I don't really deeply care to want something. Good food? I don't mind bad food at all or lack of it for days. I can certainly live with a blanket without a bed. I don't care if there is a person irl to talk to me either. I have trained myself enough, I can have a conversation with myself using a notebook.
I still feel alright at the end of the day. There is no difference whatsoever except bit more irritation.
I understand things are not right or optimal but changing them is not possible. I feel like I have already lost by solidifying that position. I am guessing, I might change with some sudden external influence or death of someone eventually.
> I can paste raw data combining my issues and associated risks/success rate. Future suddenly looks bleak from the comparison. Potential is capped more by location, family, genes, qualification, environment etc than age. High school drop outs suffer more on the long run, especially here. Being born in poverty increases your chance of ending in poverty. Those disorders are associated with short term burn, lower life expectancy, less fulfilment, lower income, higher risk of addiction and 6x increased chance of suicide or early death. My other problems certainly lower the bar even more (different forms of abuse and trauma).
Those are averages and aggregate statistics. They are not a crystal ball in to your future.
Just talking to you here, it's blindingly obvious that you're not the typical high school dropout. You're clearly intelligent, you care about your future, and you've already taken steps to improve yourself. You just need to keep taking such steps and not give up. Don't let your focus get distracted by gloomy statistics. Try to focus on the positive and the steps you need to reach your goals.
Also, with every little step you take towards your goals that has some success, you'll find it a boost to your self confidence and it'll make it that much easier to reach your goals and escape the situation you find yourself in.
> I have done that already at least online. I have found some genuine constructive advice like you have added above. I think main issue really comes from facing reality hammer and a terrible exhaustion. Everything needs a positive experience to continue. I lack that spark. Currently, if you asked me what I wished for. You wouldn't get any answer. That is the_root_problem. While extra money is always good and helping, but it doesn't provide big of an incentive to put work at this stage in this form. Other than, I don't really deeply care to want something.
Yes. I understand, and have been through it myself. It's very common not to know what you want at your age, and even beyond.
The thing is, you don't have to decide on an ultimate goal right now. I'd encourage you to try different things and see how you like them. There have been many famous, successful, fulfilled people who had a long history of trying all sorts of odd jobs and careers before they finally found something that they were really well suited for.
Don't be afraid of trying different things. They can open all sorts of unexpected doors for you, let you meet all sorts of interesting people and mentors, give you new perspectives on the world, give you opportunities to learn something new, and lead you to destinations you could have never have imagined before you started on those paths.
Also, whatever you try doesn't have to be forever. Try it and see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out try something else. In this way you will learn about the world, learn about yourself, and the kinds of things you do or don't like, what motivates you and motivates others, and what you're more suited for.
> Good food? I don't mind bad food at all or lack of it for days. I can certainly live with a blanket without a bed. I don't care if there is a person irl to talk to me either. I have trained myself enough, I can have a conversation with myself using a notebook.
That's good. That tells me you don't need much in terms of material goods, you are resilient, and you are self-sufficient. Those are valuable character traits, and will let you survive difficult conditions that would break more needy people.
But you very likely still have some needs and desires, even if you don't think about them much right now. Most people want to love and be loved, to have deep, meaningful connections with others, to feel understood and appreciated, to do something that makes a difference in something they care about.
I think you have a very, very good chance of achieving all of those and mu...
Where are you from? Really curious. You seem like a relatable person, although I've not accomplished nearly as much as you at age of 16(now I'm 23). But I became a NEET at a similar age and then bounced from place to place, working shitty ass jobs while failing to do anything to accomplish my goals. I think I too, have tired from being forced to give up one dream/goal after another due to both uncontrollable life circumstances and my own weaknesses. I'm also in a similar situation regarding family and lack of real friends to rely on. I probably can't help that much significantly, but I can offer you an ear and acknowledgement that you are not alone in your suffering. You can temporarily contact me at @siedes on Telegram or orangatelier@disroot.org if you don't have a phone number for the former.
What people call "hard work" is two different things.
One is the puritan work ethic, forcing yourself to do shit you don't feel like doing, day after day, to achieve some goal. That may or may not lead to a better life, but it always leads to burnout.
The other thing is obsession. You are intrinsically motivated to put in a ton of hours on something, and you get really good at it.
The problem is, society is veering farther from human nature, so that there is less and less overlap between what we're obsessed with, and what society considers useful.
A person who is a talented musician but got a generic office job that has early starts and late evenings. They work hard but never really progress past a certain point. After work they're exhausted so they just watch Netflix. At weekends they socialize with their friends and family.
Instead if that person had worked hard to dedicate themselves to becoming a successful musician their hard work would have paid off more.
Counter example: I knew a guitarist who was just amazing. This guy could play any solo, any chord, and improvize. He was quick, and had crazy exercises (besides his normal one). One exercise he had: 30 minutes per day, just strum to build up strength.
Unfortunately, playing music was his only gift. He lived alone on welfare. At least he lived in a country that gave him welfare. But I can easily imagine many musicians who focus on their craft and need to scour for food. Heck, that's to some extent even in my country the case, because if you're only good at music and horrible with money, you won't survive on welfare (I've seen that too, just not with this talented musician).
Maybe, maybe not. You need a way to support yourself as an artist. Lots of people choose the safe paycheck instead of tedium instead of working on their risky passion.
The problem is that a lot of people do not want to take that risk of putting in a lot of hours and maybe not succeed, and thus end up being a wage slave.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 221 ms ] threadI'm not sure what the correlation is between hard work and success, but it's much weaker than at least ten other factors.
In much the same way, you can bust your ass working as a cart fetcher at a grocery store, but unless you are intentional about how you are going to use that hard work to leverage yourself into a better position, you are just going to maintain.
Hard work should always be balanced by some amount of self education and intention, or else you run the risk of treading water and getting nowhere.
The reality is that learning is an uncomfortable process. A lot of people find a comfortable rut and they seem to prefer just staying in it. This is why public education is so important. It forces people to give themselves at least a bare minimum amount of education. Just imagine how dumb and poor everyone would end up if parents weren't legally required to educate their kids.
The fact that you think people who failed must be stupid or slow learners says a lot about your worldview.
I mean... it's not rocket science.
It's a complete cop-out to say that only young men with no obligations can do such a thing. My parents had tons of obligations and responsibilities, and they found a way to move when necessary.
People get way too attached to the idea of staying in one place their whole lives. The world is a big place.
Working hard while thinking hard and taking risks has made me wealthy. YMMV
I'm sure there are plenty of people who did the same and failed.
There are always many factors to consider but I would say the key one is luck. With a bit of luck you can easily miss one of the others (working hard for example) and still become successful.
Or they run out of time or money.
No it doesn't because those aren't independent events.
What's also important is to realize the external constraints. You should always plan to allow a couple of failures before reaching the end of the rope instead of going all in in the first try.
Taking your example if I can only do the task 3 times (for whatever reason: budget, etc) then my chances for success are a lot lower compared to a competitor who can play the game longer.
EDIT: Also it's important to learn and internalize that knowledge after each try. In most cases you can't do the same thing each time and expect a different outcome.
Startups in the typical SV sense are not the way to wealth, any more than professional sports. The folks with rare talent, and the folks around them that can glom onto those people, have a small chance of making a lot of money.
Everybody else, not so much.
Rich people are rich because they see money as capital to create more opportunities with by investing it.
Poor people are poor because they see money as something to be spent buying more things.
That mentality doesn’t necessarily change just because you suddenly come into money.
For years of my life I was, if not precisely "poor," simply not making enough to save a material amount of money. I was nearly 30 before I got the first job that paid me $25K a year. I was not, IIRC, in serious debt then, but savings had never been an option before then -- and what I used those newfound riches to do was move out of the apartment I'd been living in, in an area of Tampa known as "Suitcase City" due to its transient population. (It was also known for high levels of crime.) I still wasn't able to save until that same job's salary was "readjusted for the market" to a whopping $36K.
There are things I didn't know then, sure; the company I was at had a 401(k) plan and I contributed to it, but I wasn't contributing at any higher level than the company matched. When my salary hit (gasp) $50K, that was almost certainly a mistake, but I didn't know that. When I was laid off I had maybe $10K in savings and another ~$15K in investment. By some standards I was still poor, but it was not because I "saw money as something to be spent buying more things" -- it was in part because I didn't know much about the best ways to save for retirement, but in part because I just wasn't making a whole lot of money. Rich people certainly "see money as capital to create more opportunities with," but heartwarming anecdotes about grocery baggers who became multimillionaires notwithstanding, statistically speaking, rich people also tend to hit relatively high incomes pretty quickly in life. (They also are likely to come from similarly rich families, which matters more than we often like to admit.)
This is one argument against UBI - money increase alone isn't enough, the knowledge increase needs to come from somewhere as well, and that's not something you can get in the mail.
The _truth_ about UBI is that a lot of poor people's UBI is going to get completely eaten by predatory opportunists and then they will be in the same situation they are in. What they lack is mentorship. Without mentorship from people good at managing money, UBI (I predict) will not help the poor as much as you think - it will mainly help the educated middle class.
For example, there is a (poor, uneducated) lady in my church receiving the equivalent of UBI from the state of Maryland. However, despite "having money to manage" she has not spontaneously gained knowledge in managing money. I sat down with her once to help see if there was something more she could be doing to stop being in crisis mode all the time, and it was insane how many "bills" she was paying that weren't even real bills. There's this dark network of predators out there that send out mail with a red stamp that says "Payment Due by 1/22/2020". It looks like a bill. But if you read closely, it's actually not a bill but some home security service they are trying to trick you into buying. An educated person tears it up and throws it away. An uneducated person thinks it's a bill to pay and loses a fraction of their UBI. Another fraction of her UBI was going toward utilities she wasn't even using. One bill was nearly $70 from Comcast for cable TV, but I pointed out that she didn't even own a TV. We freed up nearly $200/month that day just by cancelling services she wasn't using and throwing away fake bills.
> Unless you teach that in school, but that would be way too sensible
Schools didn't used to have to teach you every basic skill needed to thrive in society. You could pick those up on your own if you are motivated, or through your parents.
That lady was lucky she knew you. But what should have happened is her sister, or friend, or neighbor, or grocery store cashier, should have been able to smack some sense into her long ago.
Some protections will be necessary for sure. I think there are some anti-gouging laws on the books already, and that fake bill should be classified as fraud if it is not already. Bigger potential money stream for organised crime will motivate enforcement, I'm sure.
Schools teach about traffic lights and using microsoft word. Somewhere between those some budgeting and compound interest lessons would fit right in. Society change and will keep changing, schools might as well keep up.
It is a shame that scammers can exploit people that easily. But I think that just giving money to people wouldn't solve all problems anyway. Work, for example, is more than just a means of income. It is also a source of recognition, and missing recognition would make many people unhappy.
But again: what's the alternative to UBI?
Up until my mid-30s, "savings" meant building up enough of a cushion that when my current wobbly job collapsed, I'd be able to make it to the next wobbly job without going into serious debt. I understood about retirement savings at that point, but there were years I not only didn't have a 401(k) accessible to me but couldn't even fully fund my IRA. If I'd had a UBI of, say, $1K a month like Andrew Yang's proposal -- or even $750 a month -- it would absolutely have changed my relationship to savings. My IRA contributions would easily have been $50K or more than they are now, which would likely put me $100K+ ahead of where I am in savings by now.
Exactly my point - who is going to be doing this in the case of UBI? Written instructions that come with the check? Charitable middle class mentors? Paid gov't employee?
For example: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/08/15/nba-tra...
I recalled Google also did a similar session before they went IPO. They hired someone to teach their employees how to manage the money.
I have to say though that Personal Finance is one of those "must-have" skill that school SHOULD HAVE taught in the first place. I still don't get WHY they did not. Even the basic (more than just "save your money" advise) such as life+health insurance, retirement, budgeting (let's leave out mortgage and investment).
Personal Health should be next. I know, I know, they have PE. But I'd like to see some basic Personal Health knowledge from "sleeping" to "eating-well". How to read ingredients from those junk foods.
It's probably not why they're poor in the first place!
I used to work a minimum wage job at a supermarket, and I didn't have any spare money to "create more opportunities with", even if I'd wanted to. The highest ROI thing I could do was invest in my education, but that would have been nearly impossible without the generous scholarships and grants I eventually received.
For the majority of people reaching a certain wealth point, they leveled up their knowledge with their incoming cash flow. For lottery winners and sports stars, they got plopped in the middle of level 20 among the sharks.
You are assuming everyone is sensible with money
Good mangers are not cheap
If you have enough starting wealth, it's not crucial to work hard.
If you have too little starting wealth, or don't have exceptional talent, or are just unlucky, working hard for yourself either isn't an option or still won't payoff.
If you have the right combination of not too much and not too little starting wealth, plus talent, plus luck, then, sure, working hard (either for yourself or for others, plenty of people have made it work each way) can be crucial.
1) talent. 2) luck. 3) hard work.
Talent allows one to have that idea that will provide a large client base when implemented.
Luck allows the ideas to catch on because it is the right time for those ideas.
Hard work allows the ideas to become products and services.
Hard work alone is not enough for success.
I am successful because I live below my means, and spend a lot of time with my loving family.
Hard work has definitely been part of my journey, but hoping for ‘luck’ is a foolish plan. If you live like you won’t be lucky (avoid debt, save for a rainy day, invest wisely and conservatively for retirement), you’ll wind up successful either way.
propaganda works
Sure. Decisions are made top-down, expertise is discounted, etc. The culture has drifted.
But then this frightening (to me) non-sequitur (to me): "Fifty-six per cent of the surveyed global population said capitalism in its current form does more harm than good in the world."
Based on available data, abandoning capitalism makes all these problems much worse, plus overshadows them with questions of basic survival.
"Capitalism in its current form" is the key phrase here - this includes crony capitalism, environmental devastation, disgusting levels of inequality, and sometimes even a total disregard for human life and health. (All depending on the country in question of course)
A state run economy isn't necessary to fix these. It's possible to believe that capitalism does more harm than good, right now, and that the system can be fixed while remaining capitalistic
If that's what people are talking about, great. I'm not frightened of whatever Scandinavia is doing. I'm not frightened of the New Deal.
I haven't seen any evidence that tankies are more than just a tiny minority on the internet, but I would be equally terrified to see the future they would impose.
I don't think most people want to grow a gnarly beard, take up hammer and sickle, and overthrow the bourgeois. People generally like the fact that Apple releases a new iPhone with a better camera every year, and that Gmail reminds them of that doctor's appointment they scheduled six months ago.
What they don't like is that the benefits of automation and increased productivity are going almost exclusively to the one percent. What they don't like is that a college degree is now minimal criteria for jobs that logically should not require one, and that the cost of that degree consumes the supposed salary benefits of having one. What they don't like is the fact that we're watching our ecosystem collapse in real time, and massive polluters tell us that it's our fault for using plastic straws.
People aren't calling for a switch to Soviet-style communism, they're asking for their agency back. They want to be paid wages that are fair, wages that allow them to pay the rent and put food on the table. They want to be able to retire, and they don't want to have to become Wall Street savants in order to achieve that goal. They want to be able to have their health needs taken care of without bankrupting themselves and their family.
Capitalism has made great contributions to our way of life. But unfettered capitalism, or worse, capitalism where the incumbents are protected by legislation, are syphoning off all of the value in our economy, leaving nothing for the everyday person. That cannot continue.
All regulations are tweaks to free market capitalism, and more are definitely needed. But do you think that the masses that are rallying up behind authoritarian governments around the world are taking a view as nuanced as yours? I fear they are not.
I disagree about the beard part. American men may not be interested in overthrowing the bourgeois, but they sure do like gnarly beards these days. And American women won't date a guy without a beard.
I think the hardest thing about our forthcoming economy is that the only jobs that are going to be left are going to be ones a lot of people can't even do because they don't have the talent or smarts. But at the same time a lot of very important jobs are being left undone because we don't value them. For instance: social work, psychiatric health and childcare.
The next best thing is financial services where you help people with their wealth management.
After that you have to actually start working. Intelligence is key and must be applied to a STEM field or a niche trade/business.
If you don't fall into any of the above things are looking grim. Careers that don't result in high yield profit are looked down upon.
The key is to work hard when you start out, save, invest, and live cheaply.
In smaller markets the same supply and demand exists, but there are far fewer options and possibly less willingness on the part of employers to compete for new hires.
A tech business in a smaller market might be growth constrained by a lack of talent and that may be fine. Tech employers in the bay area are generally under a lot of pressure to grow.
What is the commute like in NYC?
My commute time is 30 - 45 mins and I pay $1100 for my room outside of Manhattan.
Anchor your salary as high as possible as quickly as possible to establish what you're worth and then move.
Bay area tech beaucoup bucks in flyover country is a recipe for early retirement.
How would I justify a Bay area salary to Dutch companies?
Also, visa sponsoring is hard. Triplebyte and the like never considered me.
Does anyone get paid bay area rates in other areas? I have never heard of this. I work remotely for a bay area company and get paid based on local rates.
Sorry to be pedantic, but this is not “getting ahead”. It’s simply being ahead.
The act of getting ahead requires work or fortune, because it implies you are behind.
The act of cruising while ahead just requires discipline. The more money, the less self denial, the less discipline.
I think you need to define ‘best’ here. 80% of American millionaires today are first generation wealth, so if by ‘best’ you meant ‘most likely’, you’d be wrong.
[1] https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0810/7-millionai...
So which is it?
But thank you for bringing some more relevant evidence.
It's good that inheritance seems to be less than half at all levels. But I'd still say getting it for free is 'best'.
That's what has been true until how. But is it still true for the future? Interest rates are low, money is cheap. The rare resources are connections and cleverness.
If you inherit wealth, it's likely that you also got some connections. But life in that rich bubble, does it prepare the heir for the future where change is happening faster than ever before?
>It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It
It's difficult to take advantage of change when your wealth depends on maintaining the status quo.
Not true in practice. 70% of wealthy families lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% by the third.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-90-of-rich-peopl...
[1] https://www.edelman.com/sites/g/files/aatuss191/files/2020-0...
Based on my reading of the study, the more accurate claim is: People no longer trust that their employers will take care of their long-term interests.
There's little doubt in my mind that this claim is true.
https://www.bls.gov/cpi/questions-and-answers.htm#Question_1...
AKA economists constantly hammer that since difference between wage inflation and rent inflation is 'small' there is no problem. And if you say otherwise you're a moron. Consider the result of that 40 years though.
After all, you could have taken that $25k out and spent it on yourself or on a vacation.
A lot of people’s nest eggs are much smaller than they could have been because they choose to do something else with their money, either out of necessity of pleasure.
Do I think it will go down sometime? Yes of course. And I’ve hedged accordingly. But people who are scared to invest are missing a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Starting Point: $10k
Annual Contrib: $1k (that's $1k per year)
Years to Grow: 20 years (that's $20k contribution)
Annual Rate: 5% (ETF bloggers says 10%, but let's half that)
Total Value: $61,252.23
Money you put in: $30k ($10k + $20k for 20 years)
Money you get: $31,252.23
So let's say at the 21st year, the stock crashed. The crash needs to be more than 50% in order for you to lose your capital money.
First, I believe you can tell your financial institution if you want to cash out.
Second, by the time you retire, usually you don't put your money in high-risk investment but instead if something more "reliable" so the chance you get hit with 50% lost should be at minimum.
If you retire. You might die before retirement age. Also, by the time you retire you might be too infirm or sick to even enjoy your retirement. Many people also have such a crappy work/life balance that they don't know what to do with themselves when they retire, so they're miserable even when they retire.
I don't understand the negative use-cases from your statements.
"if you retire"
"if you didn't die"
"you maybe too sick"
Are you suggesting not to invest at all because "YOLO, we'll die, or sick-and-die anyway".
Saving money does not mean you have to live below poverty line. It means you have to "live within your means" => "balance in all things". The hardest thing in life is to deal with "change", in this case, "changing your lifestyle". Those who are not used to "live within their means" will absolutely struggle to do so down the line.
Nobody suggest anyone to put away as much money as possible and live miserably. If we go back to the simplify calculation above given the situation where one cannot afford to travel abroad _right now_, investment can help them with that problem! Nobody say not to touch your investment before you retire. You can withdraw occasionally for reasonable splurge.
If you haven’t sold you have not made anything - it’s just that the market values the asset you hold higher than what you paid for it.
If you did sell you made 25k for storing your previous savings in the stock market
It is a choice you made about what to do with your money
Unrealized gains are gains. Of course it can go down but no one should subtract that number from their wealth. Appreciating assets are what make most people wealthy.
What if the OP sold and immediately bought another asset that had similarly appreciated? What if they sold, changed their mind, and immediately re-bought the same asset? In both these cases the "made" 25K (or somewhat less if we factor in cap gains tax) is in a similarly precarious position to the just-keep-holding case.
Is it the case that to have "made money" you need to take that money permanently out of play? Does that in turn mean then when you invest money that money shouldn't count toward your net worth because it might lose value in the future?
“Those gains are fiction”
You will probably never be a professional athlete, but if you want to be healthy you must be disciplined with what you eat and work out, and you will become healthy.
You will probably never be 1% rich, but you still must be disciplined with how you spend your money and your time, and you can become wealthy.
You're lucky if you've been raised in such a way that you are disciplined and can maintain it long-term without burning out.
I wish I had a solution, but I'm feeling more and more hopeless about this as I get older.
Success these days is mostly about bowing down and impressing the executive branch, which will reward your achiever attitude, according to their standards.
That said, im kind of fresh to work, and those guys got kids.
I think hard work is something reserved for hard things, and maybe what we consider hard work is just misidentification with a job, we on the cost of spiritual growth?
I think were just confused, since what was hard is these days no longer that, and we’re experiencing a sort of midway shift.
Success has always been about sucking up to the right people.
I think there are different hierarchies to climb in different ways, and hirarchies seem to be distributed in such a way that ass-kissing climbup one makes the majority of the total, still isnt the only one tho, or way.
Wanna hear something funny? I saw a youtube/national geo. Video about chimps, actually about the ass-kissing hiera.
There was a young imp who was helping the aging alpha, he wasnt the strongest, but he was still made alpha by the old alpha, and the grooming kept happening after said appointmment. Funny thin is, the strongest chimp wasnt chosen, and was second in command! He could beat both in single combat, but not while both teamed up.
So i guess the ass kissing stuff has a role, i guess it selects for team players ... but damn man fo they Get toxic and abusive. It sorts of gives the impression that were not worth keeping around ... but then i see someone save a dog and my heart melts for our species.
"Fifty-six per cent of the surveyed global population said capitalism in its current form does more harm than good in the world."
Developed markets represent a tiny portion of the "global population".
By and large globalism has caused significant income inequality in developed markets and declining social mobility. This seems problematic until one discovers that in the same 40 years billions of people have been raised out of extreme poverty by globalism and have access to education and health resources that didn't previously.
Source is the book Factfulness or the site: https://www.gapminder.org
This article is woefully misleading.
I really think wealth inequality is a terrible metric for overall social wellbeing because it does not consider that the baseline has risen. It just comes off as a greedy attitude to be salivating over your neighbor's plate simply because it is larger, even though yours is quite full.
Rationally, I'd say that you were correct, but that does nothing to address the feelings of the folks missing the "American Dream".
Ignoring me though, there is something to be said about internet access. You may want to read up on jio and its impact.
https://yourstory.com/2019/10/reliance-jio-quarterly-net-pro...
Just out of curiosity, what do you do with your all your spare time? Is there really nothing you can do with your spare time that'll help you get ahead? Something like education, maybe? Or doing something for your community that'll be valued and gain you some valuable skills or experience?
Also, is there any way you could move somewhere where you feel you have more opportunity or maybe work remotely?
What about making contacts with and impressing people who might be able to give you a chance at work?
Or starting an online business of some sort?
I have been a completely useless shut in for the past 6 months. In August, my PC's motherboards PCI slot stopped working (b350 from Asus). I wasn't and still am not in a position to fix it. I have a 10 year old laptop which barely works for anything even with just debian + i3wm. I can't do much on it except reading. Before that, I used to contribute on GitHub occasionally and code stuff.
I dropped out of high school in the starting of 2019 after well, sudden "accidents". It wasn't a hard decision by then. I had given up on formal education temporary, I focused on getting long due medical help and support. I had to do it all myself again, being burnt already it was pretty hard to carry yourself to doctors and then filter through fraud [0]. There is a major lack of good healthcare where I live, especially related to mental health even by national standards. I experienced a few disappointing appointments which resulted in bit of superstition, horrible shaming and ignorance. I changed and traveled around - got ton of pills prescribed at the end and that's it. Nothing helped much and I gave up on that temporary. I also had other piled up issues including physical health concerns from years of ... Before I actually decided to act last year, I was also cured by religious ramblings and stuff for last 3 years and negligence for past 8 years. There is bit of antisocial behaviour due to my dad locking me up inside house most of the time throughout my childhood and early teens.
Anyways, I tried to move multiple times in the past through boarding school or other ways. My family eh...you know. I had to hop around 7 schools just so I will give up on some ideas and be tired.
I didn't drop out of school plainly out of how horrible that environment is (I was beaten up, shamed and couldn't handle normal interaction because it seemed toxic). You are forced to write notebooks of literal gibberish and then be graded down, punished for actually doing anything right. One example from my IT teacher, I was marked down, vilified and then told to stand outside the class because I asked why she marked me down on a simple question (example of ISPs). She said chrome and firefox are ISPs. This happened too frequently... I don't think I have learnt one single thing from school other than bullshitting and licking to the authority.
I could take it but then I developed servere anxiety, body dysphoria and bipolar. The amount of things to handle increased exponentially.
My family is malfunctioned. Other than providing food and bit of cash, they won't do anything I think or have done so far. They all have problematic backgrounds. My dad especially, after losing his wife and few kids. I think this will spread more light - https://notably.cc/#/note?id=oz9fMjsOa
The environment is pretty shit. Not much expected though. Most people seem obnoxious, highly religious, ignorant and are hostile. Body dysphoria or mental health isn't taken very healthily here...
I am legally not hirable and there aren't any jobs here. I have done some freelance work in the past (still have Bitcoins left in my wallet). After stagnation and lot of koolaid, I looked out for startup opportunity because nothing else made sense and I need-ed money to get any help or even move forward. You can notice it from my first thread here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853500
I cooked some landing pages, put forms in different places to validate and find market fit. As a recent example, I put a shitty web page for another thing (it's incomplete)(https://ideacrate.xyz).
I had a list of things I wanted t...
It seems that you have all sorts of issues in your life that go far beyond your location in a rural, third world area, and probably won't be solved simply by moving somewhere else -- though having some local job opportunities might help.
I fully understand and can relate to what you're going through. One thing I've been recently been getting really interested in that might help those for whom more conventional approaches have failed is psychedelic therapy (particularly with ayahuasca, MDMA, and psylocibin). I'm not sure if any of that is available where you are, but it might be worth looking in to, or maybe in to some kind of shamanic/traditional healing approaches. The other thing I'm not quite sure about is if these approaches would be counterindicated for someone with bipolar disorder. I'd definitely be careful and read as much as possible about anything you might be considering, and only doing these things (should you decide to do them) under well respected and experienced guides.
Something else to consider is adopting a regular meditation practice. That could help deal with stress and many of the struggles you're encountering. Exercise could help too, as it often provides energy and boosts mood.
Also, I think making deep, meaningful connections with people is important. They could help support you emotionally and provide opportunities for you, and you might also be able to help them.
Aiding others and being of service can be very healing and can help with self-esteem and fulfillment. You can make a difference in people's lives, and that can help lead to something and open avenues for you that are unpredictable for you at this point.
I know you said the people in your area don't seem very likeable to you, but there could be some good, interesting people among them, and it could be worth the effort of seeking them out. Also, often appearances can be deceiving, and someone who might seem off-putting at first glance might have more to them, and that hidden depth could be revealed if you got to know them better.
Finally, I know that when we're really down it's very difficult to do anything and we are strongly tempted to just give up. This tendency is made worse by focusing on the negative things in the world and in our lives. I think this is something like a very negative version of self-hypnosis, where we convince ourselves that things are hopeless and getting worse and worse and worse. It's important for us to shift this sort of self-hypnosis in to the opposite direction.. not in a polyannaish, unrealistically optimistic way, but in a way that helps rather than hurts. Try to focus on what you have that you are grateful for, on the positive things in your situation and in yourself, and on the opportunities in the world around you. I wish you the best.
I am still restricted by a lot. I do meditate. Making deep meaningful connections is pretty hard if not impossible now. I haven't done it once even when I wasn't this terrible. How am I supposed to do that now?
Do you know that I hear when you tell me that? Massive, tremendous potential. Almost a volcano of raw potential in front of you. So many things are open to you now, just considering how much time you have left ahead of you (should you not die or become incapacitated, of course).
I'm almost at a loss of what to say, because there are just so many possible ways for your life to go now.
If you really feel cooped-up in the rural area you're in now, you could try moving to an urban area and try to make it there, no matter how difficult it might be. Some people wind up getting stuck in really miserable and dangerous situations doing that, especially if they try to do that when they're young, but others make it.
Really, I would make seeking out and meeting people you resonate with, who you admire and like a top priority. Find people who are your heroes, meet them in person, and get their advice. You might not be able to do that now, but I'd make it a long-term goal. You could also try emailing them or connecting with them through social media. Some people will be glad to help. Also, you could find people adults who are doing good things in your area and talk to them in person and get their advice.
Also find your peers who are on the same wavelength as you.. it's easier than ever to do that now on the internet, but see if you can find them in real-life too.
I know it's hard. I struggle with it too. But you have a huge advantage in that you're still at a formative stage when you actually have a very good chance of changing both your behavior and your outlook on life. It gets much, much, much harder to do that when you get older and you've lived with the same ossified, fossilized bad habits for decades, and you've been shut in in your own room for 20 years or something. Then the inertia becomes terribly hard to break. You hardly have any of that inertia because of how young you are. You can change for the better.
Just, really, try to find good people. Connect. Be open, friendly, helpful. Good things will most likely come of this with time.
I can paste raw data combining my issues and associated risks/success rate. Future suddenly looks bleak from the comparison. Potential is capped more by location, family, genes, qualification, environment etc than age. High school drop outs suffer more on the long run, especially here. Being born in poverty increases your chance of ending in poverty. Those disorders are associated with short term burn, lower life expectancy, less fulfilment, lower income, higher risk of addiction and 6x increased chance of suicide or early death. My other problems certainly lower the bar even more (different forms of abuse and trauma).
If we are being considerate, you would certainly take average as a baseline for your reachable potential. I don't see how that is good at all.
Though, it likely doesn't matter.
> Really, I would make seeking out and meeting people you resonate with, who you admire and like a top priority. Find people who are your heroes, meet them in person, and get their advice. You might not be able to do that now, but I'd make it a long-term goal. You could also try emailing them or connecting with them through social media. Some people will be glad to help. Also, you could find people adults who are doing good things in your area and talk to them in person and get their advice.
I have done that already at least online. I have found some genuine constructive advice like you have added above. I think main issue really comes from facing reality hammer and a terrible exhaustion. Everything needs a positive experience to continue. I lack that spark. Currently, if you asked me what I wished for. You wouldn't get any answer. That is the_root_problem. While extra money is always good and helping, but it doesn't provide big of an incentive to put work at this stage in this form. Other than, I don't really deeply care to want something. Good food? I don't mind bad food at all or lack of it for days. I can certainly live with a blanket without a bed. I don't care if there is a person irl to talk to me either. I have trained myself enough, I can have a conversation with myself using a notebook.
I still feel alright at the end of the day. There is no difference whatsoever except bit more irritation.
I understand things are not right or optimal but changing them is not possible. I feel like I have already lost by solidifying that position. I am guessing, I might change with some sudden external influence or death of someone eventually.
Those are averages and aggregate statistics. They are not a crystal ball in to your future.
Just talking to you here, it's blindingly obvious that you're not the typical high school dropout. You're clearly intelligent, you care about your future, and you've already taken steps to improve yourself. You just need to keep taking such steps and not give up. Don't let your focus get distracted by gloomy statistics. Try to focus on the positive and the steps you need to reach your goals.
Also, with every little step you take towards your goals that has some success, you'll find it a boost to your self confidence and it'll make it that much easier to reach your goals and escape the situation you find yourself in.
> I have done that already at least online. I have found some genuine constructive advice like you have added above. I think main issue really comes from facing reality hammer and a terrible exhaustion. Everything needs a positive experience to continue. I lack that spark. Currently, if you asked me what I wished for. You wouldn't get any answer. That is the_root_problem. While extra money is always good and helping, but it doesn't provide big of an incentive to put work at this stage in this form. Other than, I don't really deeply care to want something.
Yes. I understand, and have been through it myself. It's very common not to know what you want at your age, and even beyond.
The thing is, you don't have to decide on an ultimate goal right now. I'd encourage you to try different things and see how you like them. There have been many famous, successful, fulfilled people who had a long history of trying all sorts of odd jobs and careers before they finally found something that they were really well suited for.
Don't be afraid of trying different things. They can open all sorts of unexpected doors for you, let you meet all sorts of interesting people and mentors, give you new perspectives on the world, give you opportunities to learn something new, and lead you to destinations you could have never have imagined before you started on those paths.
Also, whatever you try doesn't have to be forever. Try it and see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out try something else. In this way you will learn about the world, learn about yourself, and the kinds of things you do or don't like, what motivates you and motivates others, and what you're more suited for.
> Good food? I don't mind bad food at all or lack of it for days. I can certainly live with a blanket without a bed. I don't care if there is a person irl to talk to me either. I have trained myself enough, I can have a conversation with myself using a notebook.
That's good. That tells me you don't need much in terms of material goods, you are resilient, and you are self-sufficient. Those are valuable character traits, and will let you survive difficult conditions that would break more needy people.
But you very likely still have some needs and desires, even if you don't think about them much right now. Most people want to love and be loved, to have deep, meaningful connections with others, to feel understood and appreciated, to do something that makes a difference in something they care about.
I think you have a very, very good chance of achieving all of those and mu...
Would you like to connect through email since I think I can learn a lot from you and have more questions?
Send me something if you do. (Email in my bio temporary)
working hard never lead to a better life.
the only thing this survey shows is that people are waking up.
One is the puritan work ethic, forcing yourself to do shit you don't feel like doing, day after day, to achieve some goal. That may or may not lead to a better life, but it always leads to burnout.
The other thing is obsession. You are intrinsically motivated to put in a ton of hours on something, and you get really good at it.
The problem is, society is veering farther from human nature, so that there is less and less overlap between what we're obsessed with, and what society considers useful.
A person who is a talented musician but got a generic office job that has early starts and late evenings. They work hard but never really progress past a certain point. After work they're exhausted so they just watch Netflix. At weekends they socialize with their friends and family.
Instead if that person had worked hard to dedicate themselves to becoming a successful musician their hard work would have paid off more.
Unfortunately, playing music was his only gift. He lived alone on welfare. At least he lived in a country that gave him welfare. But I can easily imagine many musicians who focus on their craft and need to scour for food. Heck, that's to some extent even in my country the case, because if you're only good at music and horrible with money, you won't survive on welfare (I've seen that too, just not with this talented musician).
So IMO it's more complicated than that.
Maybe a UBI will fix this one day.