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Someone correct me if my anecdotal memory is wrong, but didn't Bianchi ask their customers for color preference and then sell the least liked color to great success?
That would explain a lot. Bianchi Green is very distinctive.
Bianchi Celeste/Green is still a fairly traditionally pleasing colour, popular for many things. Perhaps it was the least liked of the popular vote they had, where all the colours were reasonable. I wonder if they would have still done it had the least favourite been #00FF00.
I like the (debunked) legend that they mixed the two cheapest paints available, white and army surplus green, and made the best of the postwar financial situation.
What if they mixed this with weathered maroon?
I would think some kind of 1930s hospital mint green would to the trick.
I like it as a camouflage color... I painted my kids' tree house a very similar color and it made it much less visible with all the trees in the background.
I love how the references note that all the news articles talking about it use a different color to talk about it, as the tone itself is hard to tell whether it's just a dark grey or black or some tone of brown.

> "This is the world's ugliest colour, according to experts". Evening Standard. 7 June 2016. Retrieved 19 June 2016. N.B. As of 2018-03-29, the image there erroneously shows colour #5D4914, rather than #4A412A.

> "Researchers discover the ugliest color in the world: Pantone 448 C". Digital Trends. 16 June 2016. Retrieved 19 June 2016. N.B. As of 2018-03-29, the image there erroneously shows colour #4D442E, rather than #4A412A.

> "Does this colour turn you off?". The Sydney Morning Herald. Retrieved 19 June 2016. N.B. As of 2018-03-29, the image there erroneously shows colour #594A13, rather than #4A412A.

Keeping color correct across different media is a royal pain in the ass.
If it's a hex code or RGB value it is a Pantone equivalent anyway and may or may not be in the realm of accurate, and is likely not even close if your monitor is not well calibrated. So it probably doesn't much matter what hex code they use as long as it's in the general area. Pantone colors at their heart are ink mixing formulas for spot printing on specific papers.

I think it's funny that in a thread about a Pantone color, no one has posted it's CMYK value. C:39 M:47 Y:81 K:67 would be a better representation but it would still depend on the printer, the inks it uses and what material the color is printed on. Yes, I live in Pantone. I'll have to check out the real color in the coated book in the morning...

I think it's ugliest because it's kinda color of poo?
I think it's an instinctual reaction because it's like poo color, but wrong in some way, like it's a bit too dark, so it's like our instincts have us thinking that color means we're sick. Like if there's blood it can make it darker.
Yeah but with liver failure (hepatitis or alcoholism)
Is this the color picked for Microsoft Zune

https://www.amazon.com/Zune-Digital-Media-Player-Brown/dp/B0...

And it actually looked quite nice in that application.
It has a nice warm in look. I wish electronics usually wore in - the iPhone 5s in space grey was as close as I’ve ever seen to this.
IMO The iPhone 5 had a special tool-like quality missing from other devices. It wore down really well.
It was close. And in person, I thought it looked pretty sharp.
I've used #412f1c for years as my personal site background. I've now changed it to #4A412A (Pantone 448 C). Looks just as good to me. Has better story. https://www.ronilan.com/ What do you think?
I just switched back and forth between old and new color.

Old one looks way better than the new one. But the story might be worth keeping the change :)

Thanks for this! Seeing how a color interacts with other colors is really crucial for appreciating it.

I get why it failed market research, it's surprisingly bold for such a drab color. Which I think makes for an interesting feeling because I find drab and bold to be antithetical to each other, yet this color manages to be both.

Also, it feels neither warm nor cool, which is also a little off-putting. I was playing around with making the grey banner at the top a more warm grey, and it was terrible, but I went with an even cooler grey, and it was still terrible. The most complimentary color I found was something around #dedfd9, and it's still merely, not terrible.

It does kind of remind me of an old Gameboy, especially with the sepia picture of you.

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Not sure if you've considered accessibility, but the original color has better contrast with the font. That being said, it's not a huge deal and it's certainly a cool color to use.
In my head, this color is so closely associated with the color green (moss, trees, grass etc) that it almost looks green. I'm not colorblind, but I immediately would call this a greenish-brown, even though that's not a thing.
Ok, what is the most beautiful color in the world?
Since we're human and subjective, my guess would be some kind of blue, for clear skies and pleasant conditions, or green, implying "there's water and growth here."
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It's not brown, but it's not not brown.
Ya know, I don't hate it. It reminds me of coyote brown.
It won't be the ugliest color for long. This choice will have unintended consequences.
All colors should be treated equally. There should be no discrimination based on color. Every color is beautiful in it's own way.

But here we are, Tiffany Blue considered pretty and Drab Dark Brown is ugly. It is not ugly, It's just color positive.

I don’t know about you, but I find Tiffany Blue to be about 70% of the way to pretty. It’s too fluorescent for my eyes, and it bothered me the last time I was in one of their stores.
> Pantone 448 C, also known as the "The ugliest colour in the world", is a colour in the Pantone colour system. Described as a "drab dark brown"

Things leading the ratings of the ugliest things are rarely ugly. This applies to architecture and it seems to be the same with colors.

Dark brown is not the ugliest color, the ugliest color is magenta. It is commonly used as a transparency placeholder for a reason - nobody wants to actually see it. Just imagine a website with #4A412A background - it's ok, people will read it if you put something interesting there as soon as you use a reasonable color for the font. Now imagine a website with #FF00FF background - it's a disaster, everybody is going to close it immediately as soon as they accidentally navigate to it, no matter what font color you use.

It's all context specific. I would eat magenta cotton candy.
It is commonly used as a transparency placeholder for a reason - nobody wants to actually see it.

My memory from my days in television was that magenta was used to represent transparency because it was the opposite of chroma green, and was easy to generate electronically. That's why it ended up being in one of the palettes for the primitive-by-today's-standards CGA adapter in the early IBM PC's.

Chroma green, magenta, and superblack were three "magic colors" that made TV production work in the pre-digital age. Sadly, there is no wikipedia entry for superblack even though everyone saw it all the time, and few understood its utility.

What is it about magenta that makes it easy to generate electronically?
In TV, the 3 primary colors are Red, Green, Blue. Magenta is a secondary color made from combining Red and Blue. That's what makes it easy. Just turn on 2 of the 3 colors you have to make it. It's not a fraction of them, it's just full on of 2 out of 3.
Ah, of course! One of those things that's obvious once I know the answer.
Fun fact: there is no such thing as magenta as a frequency of light, it is a fun trick your mind does to explain both the low energy and high energy receptors activating without the middle energy receptors also activating. In terms of pigment, magenta is one of the primary colors.
Yes, was going to say this. Magenta isn't on a rainbow and isn't really a normal color in that sense. By the weirdness of how our eyes detect colors amd how our brain processes them, magenta is something like an error response catch-all for colors outside our eye's capabilities and from that standpoint it is quite interesting.
Our heads are good at mixing colors, and we register those as colors too. Brown isn't on the rainbow either.

The most interesting color on the rainbow is violet. It registers in our heads as a kind of purple when objectively it's super blue. But the cones that register red in our eyes are also slightly activated with this super blue light, which makes it register as purple in our brain.

I'd love to see an experiment where people are shown both true violet and purple mixed from red and blue in proportions that make it register as the exact same purple as violet does. And then check how many people see a difference between the two colors. That might finally answer the question of whether red in your head looks the same as in my head.

I've always wondered by violet looks purple. Thanks for that.

So, to be clear, it's just a hardware detail with our red cones? They fire in the presence of photons in the red band, but also happen to fire in the super-blue band? It's just an artifact of how they're constructed, either by chance or evolution?

> I'd love to see an experiment where people are shown both true violet and purple mixed from red and blue in proportions that make it register as the exact same purple as violet does.

Isn't this basically exactly what the computer color violet does? E.g. there are photographs of violet at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_(color), which presumably look close to reality, but the hex color is #7F00FF, which has a lot of red in it.

Is that red not there to simulate our perception of violet, if I've understood you right?

Yeah, the computer merely simulates violet by mixing a kind of purple that looks just like violet.

As far as I understand (I'm no expert, I just read this somewhere), red cones also fire for extremely blue (violet) photons. No idea why. Maybe it's blue light of exactly double the frequency of red light?

My guess would be it's accidental, but I truly don't know. It might be interesting to test if animals with different kinds of cones (like butterflies) also have a similar effect for some of their cones. Though of course we'll never be able to imagine the colors they see. We're colorblind compared to them.

You do not have blue cones, you have violet cones. Well, your “blue” cones are activated starting around 380 nm wavelength, which is violet.
> Magenta isn't on a rainbow

Unsure of the relevance of this. Surely there are many colors not in the rainbow: black, white, gray, brown, pink, yellow, periwinkle...

Here is some visual support for that explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_spaces_with_RGB_primarie...

It's fortunate that we mostly have 3 categories of cones and also 3 spatial dimensions. Notice that magenta is a vertex (of 8 vertices) in the cube, along with Yellow and Cyan too.

How the particular space (of activation to the 3 categories of cones) is carved out by that cube is something we engineered, and in fact is different across different printing and display technologies.

With RGB floats magenta is #FF00FF and that's pretty easy to remember.
Interested in what field you get the term ‘rgb float’? Not a term I’ve heard before (and not an accurate one) so I’d be interested if it’s a term of art in some industry...
Computer graphics use floats for color values very often. It was indeed misleading of me to mention floats and then use a hex value to explain it, though. Just a brain fart from seeing it earlier in the thread. With floats it would simply be (1,0,1).
I'd love if you were able provide some reading on "superblack", or even just explain it yourself.

I tried looking it up myself, because it sounds interesting, but of course search results are polluted with articles on vantablack. "Super black TV" and related search terms just bring up garbage about OLED TVs and such.

My assumption would be that it's whatever the darkest shade of black representable is - so 0x000000 in rgb. However that can't really be read as a distinct value in an analogue signal, maybe it's some kind of "sufficiently out of range" value so as to be distinguished from legitimate colors?
I remember there was some particular shade of off-black in Windows 95 that was always transparently showing any video that was playing. Don't think it's related though.
That happened because 3D cards used something called "overlay". Recall that your 3D card (Voodoo or some other 3dfx) was an additional card beyond your 2D card. The card would overlay its signal on the 2D card according to 2 parameters: a rectangle and a color.

I assume that videos used the same machinery, possibly in software, so that you couldn't take screenshots for copyright reasons. Or maybe it was faster for some reason, who knows (Raymond Chen might).

Either way, it's probably unrelated.

The video acceleration was done the same way with overlays because of the same hardware limitations. I remember the difference was that they used chroma keying to try and fake that it knew how to work with the windowing system -- the hardware would mask the video using the chroma key color while rendering the plane. Of course if you had another window that happened to have the chroma key color for text or something, you could drag it over the video and the text would appear oddly transparent. This happened with certain drivers on Windows up to XP, and on Unix/X11 when using the old "XVideo" extension.

But this is indeed tangential and not relevant to the original comment, because the chroma key color could be anything. On one particular driver I had, I remember the chroma key color was a very ugly shade of brown :)

I believe OLED technology is what OP is referring to. The pixels can turn off individually in order to create true blacks.
OP mentioned 3 magic colors in pre-digital TV production. The 3rd, "superblack" is what we're all curious about. OLED hadn't been invented yet.
I found a short snippet: https://www.alanpedia.com/television_production_glossary/sup...

Superblack: A value on the wave form monitor of 0 or less luminance units. 7.5 units is standard TV black. Graphics and logos placed on superblack are much easier to work with.

That's a pretty good dictionary definition, I suppose, but I have no idea what that might actually look like in practice, which is a shame.
On an HDTV with "local contrast dimming", freeze frame at some point in a video where there's only a logo showing in the corner of the screen and the rest of the frame is black. (A screenshot of certain video game loading screens works, too.)

You will see that the area around the logo is glowing slightly, and that the area opposite the logo is completely lights out.

That is, essentially, the difference between "black" and "superblack". Both areas are displaying black, but one area is backlit and the other is not. Lit black is clearly different from Unlit black, because LCD pixels aren't perfectly opaque.

If you have an OLED TV (or an OLED phone, like a top-end iPhones), then every black pixel is superblack, which is why it looks so high contrast and gorgeous. If you have an LCD phone, you can see the "lit black" thing — but probably only if you set it next to an OLED phone.

Folks who know what "235" has to do with this, yes, I know, but I'm only addressing "what that might actually look like", not "deep dive into the RGB low/high problem". Feel free :)

Analogue TV encoders took a signal with a dynamic range of "black to white" (e.g. 0V to 5V) and, before modulating it onto a carrier frequency, first compressed the signal upwards, making it into a smaller range of e.g. 1V to 5V, making it into a signal that's actually more like "dark grey to white." Analogue TV decoders did the opposite, treating 1V as the "black level", stretching the 4V "dynamic range" back into the full black-to-white intensity range.

Doing this allowed "true 0V" (i.e. gaps cut out of the modulated signal by electronic post-processing, below the "minimum" intensity of 1V, where you're just getting carrier) to act as a form of in-band signalling. 0V was used "outside" the image to both synchronize the TV's raster electronics, and inform said electronics of the period of time they should be off altogether, rather than firing even a weak electron beam. (This most noticably prevents your CRT from drawing a subtle diagonal swoosh when it starts each new frame.)

See also: the terms "front porch" and "back porch" (in e.g. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/201011/what-...), referring to the parts of each scanline that are 0V.

Interesting to see 'superblack'. I always remember reading the terms 'blacker than black' and 'whiter than white' in old TV repair/theory books.
So given that many TVs displayed a flat blue screen on no signal, does that mean that blue is blacker than black?
I can't recall ever seeing an analogue TV display a flat blue screen - with no signal, they generally display black&white noise
The newer ones made in the late 1990s did.
I can remember it, I think in setups where the TV signal was passed through a VCR (so it could be recorded) and then into the TV. If the VCR detected there was no useful signal it would output a blue image instead of static.

Just showing raw static was much more common though.

This reminds me of the fact that younger generations have a completely different understanding of the first sentence of Neuromancer
Not colored noise, amusingly. NTSC color TV is backwards compatible with NTSC black and white TV. Color comes in on a subcarrier of the TV signal, relative to the black and white signal, and is low bandwidth compared to the intensity signal.

Because the color signal is optional, TV receivers had to have a detector for it to enable color. Noise didn't contain the "color burst" that identified the color signal, so noise showed as black and white noise, not colored confetti. At least until TV receivers acquired enough signal processing that no-signal produced a "No Signal" message, a blue screen, or a channel guide.

Gibson has written that he has mixed feelings about that line. Great line, but dates the work.

In the early 90's, TV's started including low-resolution "Teletype" type chips (the kind you see overlay information on security cameras) that would generate menu text for volume control, etc.

Frequently these TV's would have a "muting" mechanism - if you selected a channel without a signal, it would mute the audio and display a blue background instead of the underlying signal.

When LCD TV's and HDTV started gaining traction the "No Signal" screen was often some text bouncing around in some manner.

That’s a later development in CRT TVs, where if there’s no signal you get a flat blue generated by the TV instead of noise. Hence the often quoted tidbit that Gibson’s line “The sky was the color of a television tuned to a dead channel” (close enough) doesn’t scan as a grey sky for younger readers.
Hmm, I do remember both. It was not even grey, static is high-contrast flickering of b/w dots or short lines with an amount of random grey between them (maybe soviet static was staticker, idk). For me and sky, blue makes sense, static just doesn’t. If I read it before blue screens appeared, maybe it could.

https://www.canstockphoto.com/real-tv-static-10531607.html

I think you are supposed to view the CRT from a bit afar, then you'd get that gray feeling. Also these "bands" were either jumping too much up and down to be noticable or not appearing at all on the old purely analog sets. As I remember them, the static was truly chaotic, no lines.
I guess it may depend on a signal saturation. Some empty channels were relatively dim and sparse, and some screamed white morse at you. That picture is not exactly what we should have seen, for one I cannot count 500+ lines in there. It must be only a part of a screen or a non-standard resolution (or a very short expo that captured half-frame?). Couldn’t find a good one quickly.
> static is high-contrast flickering of b/w dots or short lines with an amount of random grey between them

Like snow, even. Hence 'Snow Crash'. :)

I imagine the sky in a predominantly cold, snowy or rainy place could look a bit like static. Dry sunny climates are tend to be more "A/V 1" blue. :)

Static also has the quality of lacking scale, and containing spurious signal that your visual cortex tries to lock onto but never can. I always read the neuromancer sky as having that same kind of depthless gray and false motion that I associate with tv snow. A color you can see but can’t rest your eyes on.
Exactly! It’s white noise in visual form.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

One consequence of this setup that people might remember: the Nintendo Entertainment System can produce a "color" below the standard black level because of the primitive (albeit clever) scheme used to generate the video signal. It's been alleged that this was forbidden for licensed games, but a few games (and the Game Genie) did use it [1], causing an unstable image on some TVs.

[1] http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Color_$0D_games

As long as we’re talking about analog video, I can’t stop myself from throwing Dan Sandin’s analog image processor in there. Think the principles of a moog synth, applied to video signal. Here’s a totally amazing video of him demonstrating the machine, circa mid 70s:

https://youtu.be/8qh6jRzjmcY

Sandin also had a distribution philosophy that was a precursor (early contemporary?) to FOSS: he called it “copy-it-right”. He’d send anyone a copy of the schematics, but you were expected to build it as designed and not get creative until you at least had it working properly. The process of building the machine was also supposed to teach you how it worked.

Many moons ago I emailed Sandin and got a copy of the plans. They’re a hell of a document. Unfortunately some critical components are no longer in production, and updating the schematics was beyond my skill (setting aside that the scale and expense of the project was also beyond me, but hey).

I'd love if you were able provide some reading on "superblack", or even just explain it yourself.

I'm not a TV engineer, I was a journalist, so here's what I remember:

Superblack was a special kind of black. When you watched analog TV and the video faded to black, the screen was black. But that was a transmission black. It wasn't as black as was electrically possible. There was always still some signal there generating not-quite-black.

The not-quite-black was largely an artifact of video tape, and all the dozens of machines a video signal had to go through from playback to broadcast. If you were watching black recorded on tape, it was never quite black. An ordinary person would never notice that it wasn't perfectly black, but you could see it if you were in a TV station with oscilloscopes monitoring the signal at various points in the video chain. IIRC, it was like -1db, or something like that.

You could see it at home, if you tried. If you knew what to look for. The easiest way to do it was to turn the brightness up on your TV and look for the dark dark dark grey at the beginning and the end of commercial breaks. That wasn't superblack, that was regular black. But superblack would be next.

In a videotape room or an editing suite, you could see superblack quite easily. Watching a tape with black on it on an analog monitor showed regular black. When you ejected the tape, the monitor would go a shade darker: superblack. The blackest the monitor could electrically be without actually being off.

Superblack could be used for all kinds of things. I only remember three off the top of my head.

First, primitive chroma-key effects in the days before digital video. It wasn't great, and you'd need extra equipment down the line to boost the signal because it would get dark, and then boosting the signal made it look bad, so it was rarely used.

Second, the equivalent of today's alpha channel compositing. This was more common, but still resulted in some signal degradation. But it was how you could put chyron or an OTS over video or a live signal.

Third, was the TV station equivalent of a "silence sense." When I worked in radio, each station had a gadget called a "silence sense" that would be hooked up to an ordinary radio tuned to the station. If there was silence for longer than x number of seconds, it tripped a relay that flipped on red blinking light bulbs in the DJ booth, in the newsroom, in the PD's office, in the MD's office, and if you were unlucky, the GM's office. In non-studio locations it was often accompanied by a beeping noise. The idea was to let everybody in the building know that something had gone horribly wrong and there was nothing on the air. Some stations I worked at it was set for 10 seconds. Some as few as 3. Really, it depended on the type of music the station played.

A similar gadget could be made (most of these things were home-made by the station engineer) to look for superblack in a TV signal. Too much superblack, and alarms go off everywhere.

Fourth, Panasonic is the only company I know of that used superblack in the consumer arena. It made a VCR that, after a show was recorded, would automatically rewind and re-watch the show for you. When it sensed superblack, it would mark the location on the tape. Then when a person went to watch what was recorded later, the VCR could sense the marks it made previously and use them to fast forward through the commercials in the program. This worked because there would always be superblack inadvertently broadcast at the start and at the end of each commercial set where there was a break in the video chain from the switch between the show playback machine and the commercial break's playback machines. I had one of these machines. It worked really well, except that it made all kinds of chugging and whirring noises in the night while it marked the tape.

Again, I'm not an engineer, so I'm just working from memo...

Thank you -- I genuinely appreciate the explanation. Even if it's not as thoroughly technical as it could have been, it's still enlightening. (and the fact that it's not dryly technical makes it more interesting in its own ways!)
Is this not what you are talking about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_black
In this context, it's not a physical color. It refers to an analog video signal with a lower brightness level than the level which was defined as corresponding to pure black.
That article is about a “surface treatment” for solid objects, like Vantablack. OP is talking about screens — I believe they are referring to OLED true black.
I was only familiar with the term blacker-than-black in analog broadcast. Legal black was 7.5IRE, but any value below 7.5 was referred to as blacker-than-black. Older CRT TVs were very susceptible to bad(cool/interesting) things when the video signal was out of spec.
> That's why it ended up being in one of the palettes for the primitive-by-today's-standards CGA adapter in the early IBM PC's.

Interesting... do you have a source for that?

The hideous CGA palette is legendary, but I thought the reason for its ugly palette is a consequence of: (1) only having 16KB of video RAM, and (2) only having ~10 bits of mode-setting and colour control registers. The CGA card was built entirely from off-the-shelf discrete logic chips (plus a 6845 CRTC) and there simply wasn't room to add any extra registers.

At 320x200 resolution the colour depth was limited to 2bpp, and these two bits are wired up directly to the red and green bits of the display output. The blue and intensity bits are (in graphics modes) wired up to the mode control register. Thus the four hideous palettes: the B and I bits have to be set to a fixed value for the entire screen, and only the R and G bits can vary on a pixel-by-pixel basis.

(There's a bonus palette of red, cyan, and white that can be enabled by yet another mode control bit; and the background colour -- which is usually black -- can actually be set to any one of the 16 available colours.)

I think you both agree. Magenta is easy to generate, and the CGA electronics were designed around easy to generate colors, not pretty or good looking colors.
I was thinking because it is one of the inks in CMYK for printing.
You are probably thinking of rich black, which in CMYK is black plus some of the other three ink colours. Converted to RGB it would still be black, but in actual printing it has its uses.
I definitely recall hearing the term super black as distinct from rich black to refer to just a mixture of black and cyan, but I can’t find a cite for that. May have been local to a specific printer? This was in a context where avoiding using four inks was an important cost saving, so maybe it was just a two color equivalent of rich black.

Of course, those two colors were also immortalized by John Cougar Mellencamp in his “little ditty ‘bout black and cyan...”

The 2-bit palettes of CGA were simply colors 2/4/6 and 3/5/7 of the text mode palette, where bit 2 is red, bit 1 is green and bit 0 is blue. The fourth color (encoded as 00) was the background and could be chosen from any of the 16 text colors.

(In addition there was an "undocumented" palette consisting of colors 3/4/7 plus the background color).

I would be interested to see what magenta cigarette packets did too. At least brown is relatively inconspicuous. Pulling out your magenta cigarette packet isn’t going to be something everyone wants to do.
I'm curious too. The only problem is it is going to attract too much attention when people look at the shop shelves.
In Australia darts are all packed in an unmarked cupboard behind the counter anyway. No advertising, no branding.
Yeah when ya wanna nip on down to the servo at sparrow's fart for a sanga and some durries it always takes 'em yonks an' it's not just because old mate behind the counter's a bloody galah and couldn't organise a root in a brothel. Even worse in the arvo when they're flat out like a lizard drinking, can't crack the shits at the cobber though job's not a piece of piss.
I suspect you may enjoy the music of the Chats
I prefer Frenzal Rhomb, but that's probably just my age.
> it always takes 'em yonks an' it's not

In written form that's incredibly hard to parse, especially when you've just written a lexer for a very similar file format (space separated, sometimes quotes, sometimes quotes in quotes).

That's a pretty funny quoted snippet in the first result:

> Dart is a synonym of cigarette.

So far so good...

> As nouns the difference between dart and cigarette is that dart is a pointed missile weapon, intended to be thrown by the hand; a short lance; a javelin; any sharp-pointed missile weapon, as an arrow while cigarette is tobacco, marijuana, or other substances, in a thin roll wrapped with paper, intended to be smoked.

That makes it sound like they're not so synonymous, somehow.

I long for the day when search engines can filter out the auto-generated content-farm crap.
Punching darts; breaking hearts my friend.
May be a bit of a commonwealth thing, as it's also common in Canada.
I love magenta, personally
Good for you: the more things you like the more opportunities you have to be happy. Would you enjoy living and working in a room painted magenta?
I might not like that. I also would not like living and working in a room coated with minestrone soup.
I set all of my backgrounds and accents to brown (lighter and warmer than 448 C) and magenta. Now I'm wondering if something's wrong with me.
Everyone perceives the world differently. We don’t all have the same senses. This is normal.
> Dark brown is not the ugliest color, the ugliest color is magenta.

That's just, like, your opinion. Beauty is subjective and the only way to declare something the ugliest, in some general sense, would be to get the subjective opinions of many people. This is presumably what was done in the market research for Pantone 448 C.

Also, magenta stands out. That is a likely reason why it was chosen as a transparency placeholder, rather than just being "ugly."

Try offering a reasonable (big enough for people to consider and not big enough for then to agree to everything) reward for people to set #FF00FF for their computers and phones (and keep it for e.g. a month) background colors and see how many are going to agree. I can bet much more people will agree for Pantone 448 C.
I wouldn't want to eat ice cream three times a day, but that doesn't mean it tastes bad.

What do you think will sell better this Valentine's day: bouquets of magenta colored flowers or Pantone 448 C colored flowers?

> Pantone 448 C colored flowers

want!

No color is ugly in isolation.

But some combinations are going to be problematic. Each of the colors from an ugly combination, when combined with another color in a reasonable way, will look fine, though.

All colours are simply rather imprecise descriptions that relate to bands of wavelength within the electromagnetic spectrum. I don't think that considered on its own, that any band (colour) can be considered ugly compared to another. I think that other senses get involved.

Funnily enough: "drab dark brown" describes the archetypal colour of shit. Now shit has its own exciting spectrum of smells and colours but most people find it unpleasant and the colour is going to obviously get involved.

Now, qwerty45etc may shit magenta coloured poo. Who knows what "web dev" does to you long term 8)

Perhaps "ugliest" here means "least attractive", in the sense of causing the most indifference, or requiring the largest counterveiling force of other attention-grabbing properties to attract someone's attention. I.e., the least marketable color.

Magenta might be hideous when swatched together with most random colors that exist in the natural world, or in society; but it's certainly also attention-grabbing in a way that can be used for effect. (It's on plenty of movie posters!)

>Dark brown is not the ugliest color, the ugliest color is magenta.

I feel as though I've seen many women wearing magenta-painted nails. They probably don't think it's ugly.

That's because everybody knows it's not safe to tell them.
I don't think there's very good correlation between generally ugly colors and those that make bad backgrounds. A lot of colors are good accents but would be terrible background - probably anything at 100% saturation, 100% value (in HSV space) falls into this category, including the magenta you so dislike.
T-Mobile is betting on the color Magenta not being offensive, as they've recently renamed themselves world-wide literally to "Magenta", granted in the US I've heard it will take quite some time to make the transition.

If you want to see magenta being used as a webpage background color, check out any of the EU websites e.g. www.magenta.de, etc.

That's not real magenta, that's #E30074 which actually looks nice. Now take a screenshot, paste it in your favorite graphics editor, replace #E30074 with #FF00FF and you'll see.
Generic color names aren't limited to literally one 24-bit hex code.

#0000FF is pretty harsh on the eyes as well but somehow I severely doubt that you go around telling people who talk about nicer blue hues that "those aren't real blues, only #0000FF is".

My dark mode extension generates an even uglier color for HN (#272716).

#FF00FF on the other hand is used in marketing toy dolls all the time.

The more... feminine among us would disagree about magenta being ugly. ;-)
I'd argue that there's a difference in what colors appear "unappealing" between print and screen.

Staring directly into a bright, magenta-colored screen would certainly be unpleasant. Printing it onto a non-emissive material like cardboard, though, would probably look quite nice.

> everybody is going to close it immediately as soon as they accidentally navigate to it

If only bots weren't color agnostic then this would be an awesome way to get rid of them!

Color is a funny thing. Everyone as an opinion on it, because almost everyone can see color. Yet almost everyone is wrong (myself being no exception!)

If you were to force cigarette companies to use magenta as their marketing color, you would probably increase sales. Magenta is eye-catching.

You could make the same argument about bright orange. Imagine if HN didn't exist. Which other sites use bright orange? "No one wants to see it."

Cyan is also adequately offensive.
You can’t really compare colour on a computer screen to printed colour. It’s totally different and a printed magenta would be attention grabbing imho.
I used to work with a lady that selected that as the solid colour background for her desktop.

Even today just recalling it I'm drawn to laugh a bit in exasperation. I feel a little bit like I'm sharing a tech horror story around a camp fire.

Her desktop icon arrangement was... in line with what you would expect of such a mind.

But it's yet another example I can bring up against absolute statements like everyone hates magenta.

Ever since I took a color photo printing class, cyan and magenta has been two of my favorite colors. Not to mention Magenta as one of my favorite characters from Rocky Horror.
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Magenta is used because it stands out and has an easy hex code, not because its ugly.
My understanding is that they didn't really select for the ugliest color but the one that best conveys the "cigarettes are bad" message.

It has to evoke things like death and sickness in addition to being unattractive. It has to literally look like shit. Magenta has none of that, it is just "ugly".

Telekom[1] aka t-online aggressively uses Magenta for their Branding. Their newest Internet Package is named Magenta One.

At least they use #e20074 instead of #ff00ff

[1] https://telekom.de

We have fancy business cards at work. I was asked to proof mine and I said "I'm no designer, but that magenta lozenge in the middle looks really ugly".

"That's the shape that's going to be punched out" came the reply.

That opinion is subjective, and Magenta is useful in other contexts.
What about neon brown? Definitely much worse.
I wonder if there is a some kind of a subliminal psychoanalytical trick, where by going out of their way to make it super ugly they make it appealing. I can certainly see teenagers responding that way.
mmmm, I have a shirt that's similar in color to Pantone 448 C. It's not exact since colors can be very technical but close enough. Especially after it faded from its original color. I wonder what it says about me since I like it.
My former life as an advertising art director meant I spent a lot of time at press checks for print work, and all browns are notoriously difficult to bring any life into. Chocolate for example looks like a turd without some serious retouching (hence all the shiny highlights in photos). Separately this colour was all the rage for cars in the 70's: example of a series 1 xj6 in 'sable' https://www.jaguarheritage.com/car/1968-jaguar-xj6-series-1-... This car is stunning in real life IMO Terence Conran's UK Habitat furniture stores relied heavily no mushroomy colours like this as high fashion back then also. Beauty is in the eyes of the fashion creators...
Brown car interiors of the 70s and 80s were another fairly unique period of car design where brown flourished. I wonder if they were trying to capture the feel of wood and leather, as they moved into using plastics for interiors.
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Interesting. Things can go from ugly to nice quite easily, this is very observable in the fashion world; for instance, see modern streetwear. This phenomena seems to suggest that the concept of beauty and desirability is subjective, and can be influenced by external factors, and as such, might change in unexpected ways. If that's true, those who have chosen this color with the intention of discouraging tobacco use might be in for a surprise.
Honestly, I don't think putting this color on cigarette packaging is going to stop people from buying it. If you're addicted to it, you're going to buy it, who cares what color it's packing is...
Yeah but you're much less likely to buy that crucial first pack.
I kinda doubt a bit of olive drab is going to make the difference. Pictures of cancerous lung tissue send a pretty clear message though.
Yes, these are all over cigarette packs. I don't know why legislators overlooked snus when making that requirement.
It's about putting off new people, especially kids. No longer are there any cool-looking Lucky Strikes, or whatever.
My coworker just referred to it as "a liquorice sh*t" and I don't believe he could've come up with a more accurate and instantly-recognizable descriptor.
They just changed the cigarette packages to this colour here a few weeks ago. When I seen them I said to the person who showed me 'that's like the ugliest colour I've seen, that was on purpose wasn't it?' I guess, according to this article, it was. It really is just unappealing to look at.
I dunno about ugliest, but I can imagine it being the least 'fun'. Certainly kids won't gravitate towards it.