Ask HN: I think I’ve burnt out. What should I do?
I’m a 30-year-old iOS developer of about ten years, and last year suffered an incredible amount of trauma, including a breakup from a four-year relationship, two separate cases of sexual assault, and the passing of my mother.
While on an insured mental health break for months, I struggled through holding myself together, until finally returning to work in December.
I had been doing well for a while, but recently have been feeling significant mental instability - just disorganized and incoherent thoughts, and unfortunate bouts of overwhelming PTSD symptoms.
My coping method to that has been to try to hold my work together more and more, to a point late last week where I wasn’t even sleeping properly giving myself anxiety about work the next day.
I’ve fallen heavily behind on a lot of the personal responsibilities I’ve needed to ensure my continued healing but I’ve been terrified to step down from my job.
I live in Toronto, I’ve been with the company for more than a year, so I believe Employment Insurance would be possible for me...I’m honestly very confused as to what to do, and I’m sure others here have been in similar situations. I do have a medical professional who I deal with for this who I’ve scheduled to see tomorrow.
Thanks for reading, HN. This site has been a blessing in my life.
EDIT: Wow, thanks for all the support and responses, extremely grateful.
171 comments
[ 0.29 ms ] story [ 200 ms ] thread2. If work isn't taking you where you where you want to go and worse, if it's hurting you, you need to either find a new tack or different work. I know this is easy to say from a position of privilege, but would it be hard for you to change post or change company?
Secondly - I’m concerned about the interim - I don’t want to leave my post here without having a plan. My company is amazing and treats me very well. I just recognize that unfortunately right now I’d certainly be better off in a position where I could work remotely more, for instance. I don’t know how possible or plausible that is. I’m in the process of figuring that out.
I'm in Toronto as well and have been working through some mental hardships over the past year or so. UHN is amazing if you need a team on your side. Please reach out if you need more detailed info, email is in my profile.
Hang in there.
With that said, I'd caution you that working remotely is not a panacea. While it can certainly be more convenient in some ways it doesn't mean your workload will be cut back, and you'll have to put more effort into communication. You might also want to consider asking work about is transitioning to part-time or reduced hours instead.
Totally plausible. I wouldn't walk into work tomorrow and quit your job, but let's face it: you have experience in one of the most in-demand skills on the planet. I'd bet you wouldn't have an issue finding another job. The problem is: would another job solve your issue? It might not.
As others have said, what you need is time. I'm not sure in what way your medical leave was covered the first time, but as a fellow Canadian, our country is extremely generous in that manner (and progressive with respect to mental health). You might be able to take an extended medical leave that would allow you to draw EI. If you can survive on the $500/week the benefit pays, it might be worth it.
Good luck!
I wish you all the best, remember to be nice to yourself as you are to others.
Work can be a place to escape what's going on in life while processing, but if it's causing anxiety too, it's not helping and a break may be useful.
I try to remind myself of the reality is you’d likely be way more effective with time off away. Not to be morose, if you went away work would replace you within a week or a month.
What helped for me was learning to take one honest minute per hours, one hour per day, and one day per week. And build from there. Find the things that get you in touch with yourself and make them non negotiable.
Also: When I had trouble I was too embarrassed to tell anybody but actually talking about it is very therapeutical.
My plan is to go to my psychiatrist tomorrow morning, I spent today with my bestie to firstly relax and sort my thoughts out, and told her about some of what’s been going on, but, ultimately, I thought a post to a tech community I respect was a good idea. It’s probably the clearest-headed move I’ve done in a bit.
I’m also going through some significant dental pain after a surgery atm as well, so, to be honest, life’s been easier. >.<
Try to remember that your first priority and responsibility is looking after your own mental, physical and spiritual (I don't mean this in a religious sense) well being.
In your situation, work really should be the lowest priority that you can afford to make it. If you can afford to take extended time off to deal with everything you need to, I would highly recommend that you give it serious consideration.
I wish you all the best, and please write at the email in my profile if you feel the need to connect with someone.
Cheers, S
I cannot advise on the job, but the sooner you can communicate your burnout/work-behind status, certainly the better to improving your day.
I'm not sure what to say...you've raised so many things. It might be worth spending time with friends, loved ones or a therapist to work through it.
One person once said, try and view yourself from outside yourself as a small child. Be compassionate to yourself and love yourself as though you were looking after that child. Go easy on yourself and sometimes it's better to take a break and re-build and come back stronger than possible cause injury by persisting.
I've been through some difficult periods and somethings worked for me like: spending time in nature, cutting out the things that caused pain in my life, doing sport and meditating.
It has shown great promise in treating PTSD, even severe, treatment-resistant PTSD.[1][2]
[1] - https://maps.org/research/mdma
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA-assisted_Psychotherapy
Go speak to a doctor about if they can help you get the right papers so you can get an income and days off. That’s what the procedure is in Sweden.
So I know unwanted advice should not be given, but I can't help writing my little version down. What has helped me fix my anxiety, concentration and procrastination issues is vipassana meditation - but you need a certain level of strength, it is not an easy path by any means. It will probably not help you as quickly as you need right now. I wholeheartedly recommend it though for the long run, once you have the bandwidth. It has the potential to change your life for the better and offer profound self-insight, if done correctly.
I never sunk as deep as you though. I get weeks of "stuck on negative issues in my life". Daily meditation of only 10 min already seems to help, I am by no means an expert by the way. Headspace helped me and when I try meditating now, I hear the voice of the Headspace woman (you can also select a man) talking to myself. When I feel bad again I may sign up for the service, but as said the 10 part trial is nice already.
Edit: 2 times meditation advice in 5 min ;) As below, it may not help very much very fast, still, after trying to actively calm my mind 10 min I usually feel better already. Even when it "fails" for 9.5 out of the 10 min.
No relation to Headspace btw ;)
It is scary to step away from a job, because the uncertainty can be overwhelming. But if you have a good support system (friends/parents/etc), I would leave the job and focus on your health, it's more important than anything else as it affects everything you do/feel.
I've been strung up on whether this was flippant, or insightful.
It is FAAAAR easier to get a job when you have a job.
Good luck. Email in profile if you need a chat.
Quitting something you don't like can be totally liberating and the time off can have a positive impact on mental health if used wisely.
Problem is, after more than a decade I find myself constantly tired and unmotivated for anything. I fear that burnout is starting again, but can't afford another break in employment (and this job is actually really good -- very intense, but I don't have that feeling of dread going into work every day [like I used to experience with high school], just exhausted).
Whereas where I am now, I am well liked, people bend over backwards to support others, and everyone is working toward the same goal. It helps that the industry itself make a positive impact on people. The main feeling I get now, is similar to what I get whenever I finish a major project (including personal projects, such as designing and building a shed, creating a programming language, or designing a highly functional desk). It is a mental version of physical exhaustion you get after a strenuous activity.
So every day I end up with a bunch of small accomplishments, and periodically something major at work, which feels good. But I am also very tired. I get plenty of vacation days, but really need to make better use of them.
That statement relates to a feeling I have about burnout - I don't believe you fully recover from it. At least in my experience, while I (and others I've discussed this with) recovered by some point, I also felt something was left permanently weakened, in a way that made me increasingly susceptible to later bouts I'd experience.
There are probably normal factors that contribute to that, such as how much we age between bouts. However, after each bout, I recall not feeling the same after recovering as I did prior to when the bout started.
Coding originally pulled me out of a funk, it gave me something to work at. But now, I feel like I lost so much passion. I can't imagine coding in my free time even if I wasn't a developer anymore.
I used to code at home and read all sorts of books on various things like the Linux Kernel, just for fun. Now when I switch off after work, just the thought of looking at code makes me shudder.
Another thing to add is tenure on your resume matters, so if you are going through a tough period, and this person does end up getting fired in a year, they still have a two year stint. Much better than one year, people look at this stuff when they suspect the individual has had life difficulties.
I don't know if any of these suggestions will help, but perhaps you should pick up a hobby, something that is not too taxing and is still rewarding. It can but doesn't have to be tech related either. For me it was Photography, and I do a lot of landscape photography to this day -- but it could be anything, perhaps these days I would pick Archery (field archery is a super way to 'zen' out).
The idea is to get back the feeling of doing something you enjoy, and it doesn't requires weeks of setup or zillions of hours of practice to enjoy yourself.
If your company is cool with it, perhaps negotiate a 4 day week, and take that one day for yourself to really unwind. Don't stare at the TV tho, so the thing you enjoy, and go out and do it.
But ultimately, what I suggest is that in the future you watch over your work/life balance. Take care of yourself!
Picking up an arduino and 'waste' a couple of days making LED blink can be fantastically relaxing too.
I just think it's inevitable to hit burnout if you spend all day at work staring at screens and come home to relax by staring at screens. Or at least a way to burn out your eyes.
Don't do this for less than a full week, it has no significant effect.
Vacation is not vacation for those of us with a young family - it's actually more work than being at work is, sometimes. Good work, rewarding, but also severely draining sometimes.
How it worked for me in a similar situation: parents. I live in a country where families are not completely destroyed, so we had 2 pairs of parents to help with the kids. Taking the wife in vacation is doable and effective.
Keep your head up! 99,99% of this planet doesn't have mental health insurance. I had no idea it even existed.
1. Control my thinking. Practicing the basics of cognitive behavioral therapy.
2. Fix my sleep. Going to bed at 10, waking up at six. Eight hours of sleep per day. This requires getting rid of anything that disturbs the circadian rhythm, screens and lights are big offenders. I use f.lux and ultra-warm lightbulbs in the evening.
3. Fix my diet (ties into sleep). Intermittent fasting for at least 16 hours. Avoiding the carb/sugar spikes. I also went Keto for a while. I must advise against veganism.
4. Get exercise (also ties into sleep). Exercise is as potent as common antidepressants with none of the side-effects. A little goes a long way.
5. For work, a four-day work week and a short commute made a big difference.
I don't know if any of these can be left out. I couldn't fix my sleep on its own, without doing the other things. You may think that it's your anxiety keeping you from sleep, but it could actually be your eating and/or the lights keeping sleep hormones away so that you end up awake in bed, thinking. Then if you don't get good sleep, everything else just gets worse.
I feel perfectly stable now. Not fantastic, but stable. It's a process, took me about two months.
Edit: Also, great advice for OP :)
There's too much propaganda surrounding it, a lot of which is misinformation. People do the diet, end up feeling terrible, then feel bad for "doing it wrong". It's not a sustainable diet on its own, you have to do supplements and then it's not even clear that all these supplements actually work. Vegan diets aren't all alike of course and nutritional deficiency can be symptomless for the longest time.
> Going plant-based was easily one of the more effective ways of becoming healthy for me.
What does "healthy" mean? Some number? Do you actually feel good? Do you have good sleep, good digestion? Do have energy all day or do you "crash and burn" with blood sugar spikes? How's your skin? How's your weight? How's your insulin?
> It lowered my cholesterol levels and I think that it was instrumental in lowering my overall cardiovascular risk.
Perhaps, but the link between cholesterol levels and CV risk isn't as strong as you might think.
On the other hand, insulin resistance is strongly linked to many diseases, and grains/sugar are big factors here - many vegans have too much of that. Plants on the other hand aren't very nutritious and many people have trouble digesting them.
> From people I have met who do keto they usually increase their meat consumption and usually that includes things like bacon and deli meats which the largest casual link to increased cancer
I would advise against eating any processed meat. Keto isn't about meat, it's about switching carbs for fat so you stay in ketosis. Most meat is rather lean, it's easy to get way too much protein in the diet by focusing on the meat.
I'm not doing it anymore because it's quite restrictive, but I did feel good on it, definitely makes the fasting easier too.
That said, everyone is different. I gave up pork 20 years ago for ethical reasons, but ended up with a somewhat rare (at least in the US) meat deficiency because I work out extremely hard but try to eat mostly beans and rice. But I have friends with the same lifestyle as me, but with high cholesterol, who would probably benefit greatly from the mostly plant-based diet I was on.
Unfortunately, there are macro nutrients and vitamins that are effectively missing from the plant world:
https://inourishgently.com/vegan-depression-tryptophan/
I would honestly love it if we had impossible burgers or almond milk with anywhere near the nutritional content of meat and dairy. But we just aren't there yet. Ethically, I feel a good compromise is to only buy free range eggs and dairy, and try to avoid buying meat in the store. If someone is serving meat (and someone always is), just eat it, because throwing it away is less ethical IMHO.
A reputable therapist ought to offer a free first session (or half) to see how you two get along and it gives them a sense of what you're struggling with. It may take a few tries to find someone you click with (or a competent one), but stay at it. The exact modality does not matter so much as the quality of the relationship between client and therapist; Bowlby's attachment theory explains this in more detail (e.g. secure attachment == good parenting).
I went through burnout a few years ago (quit the badly run by sociopaths startup), went thru a good period (i.e. taking time off), got desperate for work (bad idea, but couldn't focus on what I'd planned to (aka get out of IT))), got a job, things were ok - and then went downhill again (the dead cat bounce) due to various environmental factors and also not really addressing some internal issues. So don't do what I did.
As for the job, you can always get another one (you're young enough). Again, don't do what I did - I had a ton of responsibility in the startup job and so put up with a lot of crap because a) I thought I was indispensable, b) all the tech was my baby, etc. At the end of the day, I finally realized too late I owned zero equity and the founders were deliberately exploiting me. Your company sounds much better, but still, too much identification with "the job" is endemic in IT and tends to lead to burnout.
And the PTSD worries me for some reason... just my intuition. So don't procrastinate (like I did...) Good luck.
[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-types/integrative...
[edit] I see you have a psychiatrist - good, but you should do talk based therapy also IMO - it may be my biases, but psychiatrists are only appropriate for biological based issues. It is the difference in the training. A stereotype perhaps, but when debugging software, do you immediately reach for the soldering iron and start replacing chips?
Then try to start helping people in anyway you can, like crossing a road, or buying coffee for a stranger, or go to a elder community..
These kinds of small acts will give your breathing space to think and enrich the mind and bring in more positivity.
Always remember that first thing is to get out of bad thoughts.. Therapy as someone said might also help , but it comes to affordability.