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Ask HN: Why is IE6 still so popular?

5 points by jonny_eh ↗ HN
And will it be for much longer?

According to some stats[1], IE6 has about 11% market share. Seems kinda high. Are these users worth bending over backwards for to allow them to use your site?

I'm almost done implementing a new web app. I've been using Chrome during development almost exclusively due to its great set of debugging tools. From time to time I'll then go open it up in firefox and fix little CSS inconsistencies.

But now that we're nearing the launch of our v1, we have to consider IE compatibility. Since we used tools like JQuery, the site behaves as expected, but the CSS is all messed up.

By technology standards, IE6 is ancient. Why don't IE6 users install Chrome, IE8, Firefox, or anything else?

Is IE6 still popular because it was the default browser in XP, people don't want/can't upgrade to Windows 7, and since they're using a pirated copy, they can't upgrade IE?

I'm sure there are some enterprise users, like my wife, who are forced to use IE6 because IT hasn't been given the budget to upgrade everyone. But they shouldn't be more than a percentage point in browser market share, right?

How do we kill it? Do we turn our noses up at it and force users to at least install Chrome Tab? Have other developers found this to be a workable compromise? Is there a javascript library that will automatically convert a site's CSS to a versin that's IE compatible?

[1] http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2

14 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 47.2 ms ] thread
michael_dorfman
IE6 is still the browser of choice in some rigid, older enterprises, and if your target audience consists largely of Enterprisey folks, you've got to support it. Their reasons for refusing to upgrade vary, but are largely irrelevant-- it's a reality that has to be faced, for whatever reason.

If, on the other hand, you are after the consumer market, I'd suggest you forget IE6 altogether. Any home user still using an un-upgraded copy of WindowsXP is not going to want to spend money for software anyway, so forget them.

The point is: it doesn't matter if IE6 has 11% of the global market share. The important question is: what percentage of your target audience do they own?

jonny_eh
Good point. But if enterprise developers continue to support IE6, then there will continue to be a lack of pressure to upgrade, which will perpetuate the need for IE6 support. How can we break out of this vicious circle?
Khao
Just as an example, Google has stopped supported IE6 in most of its major web apps and other big names have started doing it also. If Google is doing it, I have no shame dropping IE6 support altogether and spending all the time I save on debugging real problems and developping new features.
michael_dorfman
How can we break out of this vicious circle?

Decide you don't want the money the Enterprisey folks represent. Or, be so important to their business that they'd rather upgrade than do without you.

pasbesoin
The way I see it, a lot of corporate people shop from work. If you're LL Bean or Amazon, support it.

If you're selling something people aren't going to purchase from or for their enterprise cubicle(s), forget it.

--

Oops. I forgot to add research. A family member needs their site to remain usable/attractive to the significant corporate population in this area who will visit it while researching options from work. A lot of big, stuffy businesses whose employees are potential customers for this local business.

zeemonkee
Simple. Charge customers who insist on IE6 for the extra development work required to support it.
kls
Our research shows IE 6 at 4% of the market and our numbers take the most optimistic results. I have seen other at 3% with a more pessimistic model.

We recommend to out clients that they use the compounding development cost of chasing IE 5-6 and non-JS browsers and apply it to targeting mobile platforms. You get more bang for your buck doing so. By eliminating IE < 7 and none JS browsers you are walling yourself of from a little less than 10% of the market but the development effort to chase them increased development cost nearly 2x, targeting the iPhone (especially if your web was built with a REST backbone) is significantly cheaper 5K is the average app build, will net a better return on investment.

As well some assumptions can be made about older browser uses, they are either not early adopters or are using a corporate PC and may have access to a more modern environment at home or via a mobile device while not quantifiable, these factors will certainly work to reduce that total market size of non-modern browsers.

As I always say to clients, if you get to the point where you have to chase that < 10% for growth you have a good problem.

rst
In large corporations, there are often webapps that depend on ie6's buggy behavior, and break with anything else. And it may not even be under the company's own control --- I know of one SaaS player in the financial space that has a major bank pinned down to ie6, even though the bank would like to upgrade.

Chrome Frame is one way out of these situations, but convincing IT that it's a good idea is a struggle at best.

dstein
Any web developer that adds IE6 support to a new web application deserves to get their house TP'ed.
notahacker
If Microsoft had introduced Google Chrome style browser updates (either at the beginning or as a default XP service pack) this wouldn't be a problem. But even without problems of enterprise lockin, the average person doesn't update software that appears to work OK very often. Some of them are probably still using Windows 2000 or ME, which doesn't even support newer versions of IE but is still fit for most simple purposes

A significant proportion of internet users don't know what a browser is, and if they see a website that advises them they need to download a piece of software to get it to work, they instantly distrust it. In all honesty it's probably better overall that people who don't know about browsers do ignore websites with buttons telling them they'll enjoy a better viewing experience if they download and install extra software.

Like people using the latest cutting-edge iPads, they'll just have to miss the occasionally useful flashiness that their default browser doesn't attempt to support. The average person that hasn't upgraded by now probably isn't going to be swayed by yet another broken rendering or "this site is only viewable in IE7+ or Chrome or Firefox"

The only party that can seriously reduce IE6 market share is Microsoft, by using OS updates to force upgrades and creating an "IE6 mode" that allows those kludgy enterprise apps to continue to function.

brianmario
For the love of god please stop supporting IE6 people. It's not the Enterprise that's keeping it around it's US (developers that continue to support it).

If the entire internet didn't work on it, you bet your ass these slow-poke Enterprise folks would figure something out ;)

chad-lundgren
I didn't understand why NetMarketShare's Internet Explorer market share numbers were so much higher than other sources. Then I found this page - http://marketshare.hitslink.com/weighting.aspx - which says "...We now weight Chinese traffic proportionally higher in our global reports".

China has a LOT of IE6 users because of historical issues related to SSL export restrictions. NetMarketShare's 11% number for IE6 is higher than IE7 (8%), which is ridiculous. So unless you have a lot of Chinese users, the number from StatCounter (5%) is probably closer to the truth - http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-monthly-201001...

indrora
one word: compatibility.

Most (if not all) of the management tools that are currently being used by major corporations are made for IE6 (because thats what was big when it was designed and purchased).

The other particular reason happens to be schools. In highschool (and still now in college) the IT team hasn't managed to get clearance to upgrade (it might /cost money/!)

Congratulations, A winner is You for anything in the US. I can't vouch for anything else, so there's 5% of the share.