We need a bluetooth tracker of sorts that can alarm people if they get too close. Only Apple (or privacy focused) companies can do this responsibly, without uploading any data and keeping everything in the secure enclave. Messages over bluetooth are encrypted and simply contain nothing but the proximity data. But there is a problem:
1. If you're already showing symptoms, you're gonna isolate yourself
2. Coronavirus spreads during incubation period.
Giving access to contacts is the only way to get traceability even then you meet and greet people who we don't keep in the contacts (Grocery store clerk).
I don’t think it’s as ridiculous as it sounds. Eyes and ears don’t work around corners in grocery stores, and not everyone has an intuitive sense of what 6 feet of space looks like. Even people who are virus free and/or asymptotic should keep their distance from others.
Also - What about people who are hard of hearing or have limited/no vision? A vibration could help them not be at risk if they have to be out.
Two meters straight-line distance because that's how far your sneeze travels. If it's around a bend, then someone's sneeze isn't going to hit you; it will hit the wall first.
I mean more in the scenario that you’re about to turn a corner and someone is standing there. Maybe if you got an alert you would wait and let them pass or take a different route.
That's for tracing who came in to contact with one another after the fact. It wouldn't stop people coming in to contact, and it's far too late for contact tracing to be effective for Covid-19 now anyway.
On the contrary, contact tracing (plus widespread testing) will be necessary in places where outbreaks are eventually brought under control and life slowly starts returning to normal.
Of course, many places will need extensive lockdowns to reach that point.
> it's far too late for contact tracing to be effective for Covid-19 now anyway
I think you are right about this and furthermore, non-optional bluetooth tracking is just going to encourage people to leave their phone at home when they go out, especially if they are on the fence about whether or not they are a danger. If they need something they are going to go get it.
We need a rapid cultural adjustment that causes people to voluntarily minimize spreading.
Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan never went into lockdown. People there can still go to restaurants and mostly carry on with their normal lives.
The reason they can do this is they acted quickly and they have mass testing and contact tracing of the people who test positive. We can't keep the entire world locked down for months on end. At some point, we have to start opening things back up and the only way to keep the viral coefficient below 1 is if we can quickly and efficiently identify & isolate everyone who has potentially been exposed to the virus.
Today, only a tiny percentage of the people in your city have corona virus. In the US, we have around 100k official cases out of 330M people (0.03%). Obviously that number is way under-reported, but it gives us a rough idea of how far along we are on the exponential curve. For now, we're still searching for a needle in a haystack. First, you need mass testing, including people without symptoms. Otherwise it will keep spreading from person to person unknowingly. Second, you need to figure out who else they have possibly infected and isolate them too.
For the first time in history, most humans on this planet are already carrying a tracking device with them at all times. We just need to figure out how to utilize this data while still respecting users privacy and making sure we don't unwittingly usher in a new-era of government and corporate surveilence. The crazy thing is Google, Apple, Facebook, the NSA, and all of the phone carriers already have this data collected on just about everyone. But they don't want to freak us out by revealing just how much data they have on all of us.
Apparently COVID-19 is only a problem in the United States, because I can’t download this app from the Canadian App Store. I understand there might be legal issues involved, but it’s still a bit of a disappointment.
Both the Federal and Provincial governments have comparable self-assessment tools on their websites. This doesn't appear to be much more sophisticated than that:
My bad, the website works. I absolutely get a prompt on the app store to sign in, and a prompt to update to ios 13.1 (which is not available to download, presumably because iphone6)
Wait, you're saying "Apple requires me to sign in with an account to use the App Store". Yes, that's completely correct, and absolutely normal for iOS since year 1 day 1. Nothing Covid-specific there.
The team at Luminare (https://luminaremed.com) has been working with epidemiologists and doctors from Harris County and the City of Houston to build out a screening tool to help prioritize public testing. We are doing about ~10k screenings per day and ready to ramp up as more testing becomes available: https://checkforcorona.com/harris-county
We are providing this tool free for any hospital or public health organization that needs it. Please reach out if you have any connections!
I wish the privacy policy linked to a site-specific one, not the generic /legal/privacy.
Perhaps they couldn't get lawyers in time.
Edit: oh, if you start screening there is a site-specific one if you click "Learn more" next to "Your answers will not be shared with Apple or the CDC without your permission."?
boring, not much to this. I suppose another avenue to access the same information (how many hundreds of sites telling ppl to social distance for weeks) is fine but the assessment tool is what, a Q&A form using same path as gov sites are already using in Canada, UK etc...open sourced forms too
A lot of people would love to have an all-in-one app that can assuage fears on what to do next amidst a potential slew of symptoms. You can even tailor it to answer questions for a loved one. Not sure what’s so “Apple marketing” about it aside from genuinely caring about people during this time of crisis.
But if we succeed with strong enough measures to suppress COVID-19 within a few months, contact tracing will be critical to reduce the risk of rebound as we reopen our society.
I propose that Apple and Google together gets a head start on contact tracing. Singapore released the TraceTogether app (Android, iOS) for its citizens, but ideally we could have a tool deployed by default in Android and iOS. Does anyone know if Google and Apple are working on this?
(Apple’s Find My solution — with public keys broadcast and collected whether phone/GPS is on/off — might contain the right building blocks for contact tracing. But I’d leave it to top engineers at Apple and Google to build a better solution than what I can come up with alone.)
> Does anyone know if Google and Apple are working on this?
It would probably illegal to create an app for contact tracing. E.g. it's legal for Apple to have an iPhone app called Reminders, but if they were marketing it as a tool to help people to remember to take their medication then that would be illegal because it hasn't undergone testing to prove that it increases medication adherence or whatever. That's why the FDA banned doctors from using checklists to remind them to wash their hands before surgery.
if they were marketing it as a tool to help people to remember to take their medication then that would be illegal because it hasn't undergone testing to prove that it increases medication adherence or whatever
I doubt those little plastic M-T-W-H-F-A-U pill organizers went through any FDA clearance.
/Some days when I wake up, that's the only way I know what day it is.
I'm still not convinced a contact tracing app would be legal though, given that it could lead people to seek medical attention who might not otherwise need or benefit from it. Didn't Apple talk about how they needed to work with the FDA to get their ECG functionality approved?
> Many software functions are not medical devices (meaning such software functions do not meet the definition of a device under section 201(h) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act)), and FDA does not regulate them as devices. Some software functions may meet the definition of a medical device, but because they pose a lower risk to the public, FDA intends to exercise enforcement discretion over these devices (meaning it will not enforce requirements under the FD&C Act).
Ideally the goal would be a privacy respecting solution that saves lives.
This is the approach Singapore is taking with their TraceTogether app: [1] [2]
“TraceTogether uses Bluetooth signals to determine if you are near another TraceTogether user. Your Bluetooth proximity data is encrypted and stored only on your phone. The Ministry of Health (MOH) will seek your consent to upload the data, if it’s needed for contact tracing.”
“If you had close contact with a COVID-19 case, TraceTogether allows the MOH call you more quickly, to provide guidance and care.”
“TraceTogether helps us protect our loved ones and families so that we do not spread the virus to them unknowingly. It also helps us support the work of contact tracers and healthcare workers by combating the spread of COVID-19 together.”
“TraceTogether's functionality will be suspended after the epidemic subsides.”
I would somewhat trust Apple with a properly privacy-enabled (ie, strongly anonymized) solution (it's part of their brand) I am not sure I would trust Google.
Maybe you don't want to cancel your wedding or close your business either, but the health department can tell you that you must.
Consent is not everything when public health is on the line. It seems like single-issue privacy advocacy is going to get even less traction than before.
Didn't know that Apple was working on this. I'm not a huge Apple fan but they certainly did the right thing by not telling Trump (of whom I'm neither a fan nor a hater) or by having a strong NDA to cover the work so that it couldn't be announced...
Apple has likely spO2 data as well as heart rate data form millions of Apple Watch users that can be used to partially diagnose this infection.
The watch is capable of measuring spO2 even if it’s not displaying the information and even if it’s no 100% accurate drops over a large enough time period combined with elevated heart rate would indicate a respiratory infection.
Whilst I agree that the data isn’t useful for most individuals releasing it to authorities around the world after anonymization would likely be quite valuable.
I might have had a mild infection don’t know if it was COVID-19 but it was A respiratory infection for sure.
Myself and my girlfriend were sick she had a fever I barely registered above normal we had coughs, sore throat I still can’t smell smoked salmon and she has stomach issues too.
It’s pretty much all gone now but one thing for sure we both had pretty high resting heart rate, as high as 110 during the worst of it.
My normal awake resting rate is around 65, it’s still around 80 despite all symptoms going away and trying to do some pushups today I realized that I’m extremely weak despite not feeling bad.
I usually do 5 sets of 20 pushups (controller, full range of motion) with a 50lbs resistance band today I felt myself gasping for air after 8-10.
I was under the impression that Apple Health is designed so that Apple itself doesn't have access to this data, even in aggregate. Is that not the case?
With the current legal limitations yes, but even with an opt-in they likely would get enough data to be valuable to researchers especially if people also opt-in to share location data.
The data still exists even it’s just on the phone/watch I have years of historic health data form multiple devices which I would gladly share with PHE or the NHS and any other health agency local or not if it will be useful to them.
Even though the watches have the technical ability to measure spO2 right now, I’m not sure that’s even recorded anywhere. On the bright side there are references to it in iOS 14, so it might be coming soon.
Tbh if you have low sats, most people know about it from symptoms (excluding people with COPD and other co2 retaining conditions). For the vast majority I don’t see Spo2 being particularly helpful in changing any decision.
Here in Portugal, 2500+ volunteers are building solutions for the virus. From arranging free housing for medical staff to a self assessment app. If your government is slow to deploy tech solutions, I urge you to unite, bootstrap the project and hand it over to the government as soon as it gets enough traction.
Its great that US companies are trying to help during times like these, but it feels strange that companies are filling in the gaps left by American government.
Like why do we have a Google website with CDC information and an Apple website with CDC information? Why not have a single place that we send people? It seems like we should have a single, cross platform app/website that is CDC branded versus Company X branded.
Explains why Apple seems to be blocking all other COVID-19 related apps. We’re seeing most people in our ecosystem (Ionic) turn to deploying their apps as PWAs in the short term
Sure. Apple is after all that free app money from their free app.
It can’t possibly be because their app was developed with government guidance and they have no reasonable way to auditing all the 3rd party apps for accuracy and safety in a reasonable timeframe.
That’s exactly what I mean. In the last few weeks they seemed to be blocking most independent apps that tried to do something similar. Now their official app is out and their stance makes sense. Not sure how you took my comment to be a reference to anything revenue or free related and your sarcastic tone is unwarranted.
Broader reach, Apple has this as the top story when you tap on the App Store. Plus a smoother/more consistent UI on their own platform. The website works fine on mobile but the app is way better.
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[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 156 ms ] thread1. If you're already showing symptoms, you're gonna isolate yourself
2. Coronavirus spreads during incubation period.
Giving access to contacts is the only way to get traceability even then you meet and greet people who we don't keep in the contacts (Grocery store clerk).
Why do you need an app and Bluetooth for this, don't you have eyes and ears lmao
Also - What about people who are hard of hearing or have limited/no vision? A vibration could help them not be at risk if they have to be out.
Don’t hug the wall and you’ll be fine.
The news report about 45 people at choir practice testing positive is just one episode [1]
[1] https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1243331922903908352
Of course, many places will need extensive lockdowns to reach that point.
I think you are right about this and furthermore, non-optional bluetooth tracking is just going to encourage people to leave their phone at home when they go out, especially if they are on the fence about whether or not they are a danger. If they need something they are going to go get it.
We need a rapid cultural adjustment that causes people to voluntarily minimize spreading.
The reason they can do this is they acted quickly and they have mass testing and contact tracing of the people who test positive. We can't keep the entire world locked down for months on end. At some point, we have to start opening things back up and the only way to keep the viral coefficient below 1 is if we can quickly and efficiently identify & isolate everyone who has potentially been exposed to the virus.
Today, only a tiny percentage of the people in your city have corona virus. In the US, we have around 100k official cases out of 330M people (0.03%). Obviously that number is way under-reported, but it gives us a rough idea of how far along we are on the exponential curve. For now, we're still searching for a needle in a haystack. First, you need mass testing, including people without symptoms. Otherwise it will keep spreading from person to person unknowingly. Second, you need to figure out who else they have possibly infected and isolate them too.
For the first time in history, most humans on this planet are already carrying a tracking device with them at all times. We just need to figure out how to utilize this data while still respecting users privacy and making sure we don't unwittingly usher in a new-era of government and corporate surveilence. The crazy thing is Google, Apple, Facebook, the NSA, and all of the phone carriers already have this data collected on just about everyone. But they don't want to freak us out by revealing just how much data they have on all of us.
Here's the Federal self-assessment: https://ca.thrive.health/covid19/en
Ontario: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/self-assessment/#q0
BC: https://bc.thrive.health/
The team at Luminare (https://luminaremed.com) has been working with epidemiologists and doctors from Harris County and the City of Houston to build out a screening tool to help prioritize public testing. We are doing about ~10k screenings per day and ready to ramp up as more testing becomes available: https://checkforcorona.com/harris-county
We are providing this tool free for any hospital or public health organization that needs it. Please reach out if you have any connections!
Perhaps they couldn't get lawyers in time.
Edit: oh, if you start screening there is a site-specific one if you click "Learn more" next to "Your answers will not be shared with Apple or the CDC without your permission."?
https://www.apple.com/covid19/
Shrug apple marketing.
It's a standard press release.
[1]: https://www.who.int/features/qa/contact-tracing/en/
But if we succeed with strong enough measures to suppress COVID-19 within a few months, contact tracing will be critical to reduce the risk of rebound as we reopen our society.
I propose that Apple and Google together gets a head start on contact tracing. Singapore released the TraceTogether app (Android, iOS) for its citizens, but ideally we could have a tool deployed by default in Android and iOS. Does anyone know if Google and Apple are working on this?
(Apple’s Find My solution — with public keys broadcast and collected whether phone/GPS is on/off — might contain the right building blocks for contact tracing. But I’d leave it to top engineers at Apple and Google to build a better solution than what I can come up with alone.)
It would probably illegal to create an app for contact tracing. E.g. it's legal for Apple to have an iPhone app called Reminders, but if they were marketing it as a tool to help people to remember to take their medication then that would be illegal because it hasn't undergone testing to prove that it increases medication adherence or whatever. That's why the FDA banned doctors from using checklists to remind them to wash their hands before surgery.
I doubt those little plastic M-T-W-H-F-A-U pill organizers went through any FDA clearance.
/Some days when I wake up, that's the only way I know what day it is.
Not sure about that. I've had just such an app installed on my iPhone.
They shut down a specific study of checklists that didn't get informed consent.
This article asserts that that was the wrong call, but your claim that the FDA has banned them is incorrect. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/opinion/30gawande.html
I'm still not convinced a contact tracing app would be legal though, given that it could lead people to seek medical attention who might not otherwise need or benefit from it. Didn't Apple talk about how they needed to work with the FDA to get their ECG functionality approved?
A contact tracing app is far less obviously in that category. It might be, but it might fall under various exemptions, with the right disclaimers.
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/device-software-function...
https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan...
> Many software functions are not medical devices (meaning such software functions do not meet the definition of a device under section 201(h) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act)), and FDA does not regulate them as devices. Some software functions may meet the definition of a medical device, but because they pose a lower risk to the public, FDA intends to exercise enforcement discretion over these devices (meaning it will not enforce requirements under the FD&C Act).
This is the approach Singapore is taking with their TraceTogether app: [1] [2]
“TraceTogether uses Bluetooth signals to determine if you are near another TraceTogether user. Your Bluetooth proximity data is encrypted and stored only on your phone. The Ministry of Health (MOH) will seek your consent to upload the data, if it’s needed for contact tracing.”
“If you had close contact with a COVID-19 case, TraceTogether allows the MOH call you more quickly, to provide guidance and care.”
“TraceTogether helps us protect our loved ones and families so that we do not spread the virus to them unknowingly. It also helps us support the work of contact tracers and healthcare workers by combating the spread of COVID-19 together.”
“TraceTogether's functionality will be suspended after the epidemic subsides.”
[1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=sg.gov.tech.bl... "Android"
[2]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tracetogether/id1498276074 "iOS"
Consent is not everything when public health is on the line. It seems like single-issue privacy advocacy is going to get even less traction than before.
So your desire for location privacy in the midst of a public health crisis has, at minimum, a lower priority than when conditions are normal.
At the bottom it reads, "Developed With CDC, The White House, FEMA"
The watch is capable of measuring spO2 even if it’s not displaying the information and even if it’s no 100% accurate drops over a large enough time period combined with elevated heart rate would indicate a respiratory infection.
Whilst I agree that the data isn’t useful for most individuals releasing it to authorities around the world after anonymization would likely be quite valuable.
I might have had a mild infection don’t know if it was COVID-19 but it was A respiratory infection for sure.
Myself and my girlfriend were sick she had a fever I barely registered above normal we had coughs, sore throat I still can’t smell smoked salmon and she has stomach issues too.
It’s pretty much all gone now but one thing for sure we both had pretty high resting heart rate, as high as 110 during the worst of it.
My normal awake resting rate is around 65, it’s still around 80 despite all symptoms going away and trying to do some pushups today I realized that I’m extremely weak despite not feeling bad.
I usually do 5 sets of 20 pushups (controller, full range of motion) with a 50lbs resistance band today I felt myself gasping for air after 8-10.
https://www.apple.com/ios/research-app/
No way they gonna let you use existing hardware
If you want to help Portugal, you can join in https://tech4covid19.org
I can't believe I'm typing that about the CDC...
Like why do we have a Google website with CDC information and an Apple website with CDC information? Why not have a single place that we send people? It seems like we should have a single, cross platform app/website that is CDC branded versus Company X branded.
It can’t possibly be because their app was developed with government guidance and they have no reasonable way to auditing all the 3rd party apps for accuracy and safety in a reasonable timeframe.