You'd think there was some seedy truth to the place but an ex of mine had family involved in the administration of the place and I've been there (both before I knew her and after). Quite a charming place in reality.
Though I'm told everything almost fell apart after a founder or big leader died and the government had to step in. It's the Indian government so usually that's a disaster but this one seems to have turned out okay.
Anyway, it's unlikely the website can handle an average company let alone HN so mirrors:
If the answer is poverty and desire for the lifestyle, then what? They can't cure poverty in India or dull people's fantasies. I'd say the situation is OK and doesn't need fixing.
Rich people coming in and living easy, and other, very poor people moving in because maybe they need a job is not 'self-selection' it's 'a priori selection' based upon the economic systems they are coming in from, not the one they are in.
These places make great sets for fun movies though ...
Whatever you call it, people are choosing their roles. Should they work against that, such as by denying employment to darker skinned people and denying membership to lighter skinned people? Or not.
... perhaps the most false choice ever presented in a social argument.
'Kids born it poverty can't go to University so factory work is their 'choice', why should we deny them work at the factory?'
Seriously?
If it were just 'some place' then it would be more of a rhetorical question, but the entire point of the villages is to create a place where people are equal irrespective of clour or creed, so the hypocrisy looms large. Maybe they can take their free time to ponder such questions because though answers are never obvious, there are opportunities for improvement.
That was my most distinct memory as well, stopped by the cafe for lunch and the European woman in charge was constantly yelling at the Indian staff.
Away from the residents, the place was very peaceful and serene. But, it felt like a few decades of social stratification had created a power hierarchy.
I remember there being some slightly strange rules you had to agree to in order to stay there (e.g. no sex) but the "staff" (don't know if they were employees or devotees?) were welcoming and the accommodations were great. The compound is right on the Bay of Bengal and sleeping in that room with the windows open and the waves crashing was an experience I'll never forget.
When I was there, I learnt that Auroville share a lot with Sri Aurobindo and the Holy Mother, but the ashram/compounds in Pondicherry doesn't have as much to do with Auroville itself these days as it did back in the 60s-70s.
I would take anything said by r/india with a pinch of salt. In fact, I would reccomend staying away from most main stream Indian subreddits. Each one is peddling some kind of disgusting agenda.
It's kind of sad what happened to r/india. I've been visiting the sub for almost a decade, it has turned from a rather relaxed community where people could talk to a hyper political fighting arena where you can only be a right/left wing shill.
The ban-hammer heavy moderation doesn't really help. I would post this criticism on the subreddit itself, but it would be removed as any criticism of the sub/mods is against the rules and is automatically caught by the AutoMod.
The sub seems to really be in favor of progressive skeptical thinking but the manner in which the mods operate the subreddit is exactly the opposite.
True. It was such a pleasant community with very helpful people. Now even in completely non-political posts you have people bringing in politics (granted, they are usually down-voted). And then there is r/indiaspeaks...
I've been there twice. I'd say it is very hippy, and there's a lot of bunk floating around - I saw a water cooler that dispensed "smart water enhanced with classical music" - but that's a given for any place that has to do with spiritual enlightenment. I wouldn't say it was racist, though, but from personal experience most of the foreigners I saw were white and seemed well off. IMO it's neither as bad as /r/india makes it out to be nor as good as some of the commenters here are saying it is.
As I was staying in Pondicherry for a month so I a visited Auroville a few times in 2018. It's hard to describe. On the one hand it seems like a cause for good, on the other you occasionally discover some out-of-place clearly expensive and wealthy buildings for residents dotted around the jungle which forms the site. Seems to have some strange contradictions.
>"Auroville was born on 28 February 1968. Its founder, the Mother, created the Auroville Charter consisting of four main ideas which underpinned her vision for Auroville. When Auroville came into being, All India Radio (AIR) broadcast the Charter, live, in 16 languages. Aurovilians apply the ideas of the Auroville Charter in their daily life, in policy-development, and decisions, big and small. The Charter thus forms an omnipresent referent that silently guides the people who choose to live and work for Auroville.
The Auroville Charter
Auroville belongs to nobody in particular. Auroville belongs to humanity as a whole. But, to live in Auroville, one must be a willing servitor of the Divine Consciousness.
Auroville will be the place of an unending education, of constant progress, and a youth that never ages.
Auroville wants to be the bridge between the past and the future. Taking advantage of all discoveries from without and from within, Auroville will boldly spring towards future realisations.
Auroville will be a site of material and spiritual researches for a living embodiment of an actual human unity."
Auroville is the product of a fringe spiritual movement, but not an outright cult. Back in the 1960s, Auroville was able to attract so much approval from representatives of various governments and the NGO world because the Mother and Sri Aurobindo were seen as relatively reasonable people, in spite of their utopian visions. As far as fringe spiritual movements go, Auroville is comparable to Rudolf Steiner, Gurdjieff, the spiritual side of the Esperanto movement, etc. which definitely have their share of critics but are large, institutionalized phenomena where people can enter or leave the movement as they please, and lives aren’t completely controlled and subjected to the whims of a single living leader or a committee thereof.
Also, when you actually visit Auroville, you find that it has splintered into disparate communities that sometimes outright dislike one another. Again, this seems very different from cults, which tend to insist on forced unity and orthodoxy among its membership.
I went there, it’s pretty weird if I’m honest. I felt as if I was living in an Indian Hitchcock film. It felt as though there were people who were tourists and people who lived there and they were very separate. I have this feeling the whole place is a riddle, I’d like to go back and try to understand it again...
> I’d like to go back and try to understand it again
There's a book called "Sri Aurobindo or the Adventure of Consciousness" by a guy named Satprem, which pretty much gives you the founding story of the place.
Caveat - Satprem was a disciple, so this is not a view from the outside.
https://auroville.com works if .org is down. I've come across it in the past because they build and sell pretty nice (just intonation) musical instruments. The instruments are cool but the place comes across a bit cultish
In a case of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon (or frequency illusion), I've been learning Elixir/Phoenix and started off with https://github.com/shankardevy/mango which explicitly mentions Auroville and is the first I had heard of it.
It gave me a strange vibe.
This is literally the last thing I expected on the front page!
My family are all based in Pondicherry and have very strong historical links with the Sri Aurobindo Ashram and the Mother. And are also involved in the Auroville administration and management. I've been there a lot, I've stayed there, met many people who live there and work there.
And it's an unusual place. Some of the folks in Pondy call it "Horrorvile" because of the reputation of seediness that some residents are alleged to have (sex abuse of local children, if you want to know). There is also a unusual "un-Indian" feeling about the place because of the nationality of its residents (global).
However, I have met only nice people there, doing wonderful projects (solar bike sheds, environmentally-suitable architecture) and it is well worth a few visits.
On the other hand, there is quite a difference between the mission statement and the practice of its values. Money isn't really supposed to change hands for work and housing. This is bullshit; many people have commercial sidelines and housing does get bought and sold. Rules are there to be bent and of course, they are.
Some of the security staff can be real jobsworths and exceedingly officious, which can irritate people. And it feels a bit lawless in some regards, hovering uneasily between spirituality, cultishness and the Indian democracy.
It's a peculiar place. But you probably got that already.
J. Krishnamurti said it the best: "Belief has no place where truth is concerned."
I always view these types of movements with a lot of suspicion. Mainly because of the falsehoods they present. Self-realization is not something that can be taught by following someone else. You can spend your entire life looking for it in other people. But you have to experience it, to truly understand. You shouldn't even listen to what I'm writing here, as this entire comment could be a similar falsehood that detracts you in your search.
Because it was a necessary part of transitioning from state 0x923d74ff6245b250b323 to state 0x810215d1ccb3ed13d54c?
People are not simple flowcharts. They can have all sorts of motivations that aren't literal interpretations of what comes out of their mouth. But you know that. So why are you asking the question?
Well at least your thoughts seem very distorted because you seem to claim that using the tool of language is useless and no one should do it, and then still keep using it and even try to defend using it.
"Language itself is a distortion of your thoughts" is just one of those truths, one of the first things any growing human being sees when they start on a journey of spiritual growth. The point of it is not to stop using or stop trusting the language, stop communicating. The point is to see how it works and how it relates to the rest of the self, so that it can fulfill its great potential as a tool for spiritual growth and learning.
Tbh this may sound cultist to others, but it's really not. You'll need to understand the philosophies of The Mother and Sri Aurobindo first for it to make sense. It's sets the example of a Utopian society. One shouldnt simply look at it from that angle and discard it without understanding the history and vision behind it.
I agree - as far as spiritual movements go, this is one of the least cult-ish I've ever seen.
Even the stuff they say - I can at least sit down and consider it without freaking out instantly.
In some ways they resemble the very modern panpsychist school of thought (Giulio Tononi, Sam Harris). Consciousness is a basic ingredient of matter. Both matter and consciousness are real. Evolution is real. There is no biblical god. Cosmology - they defer to science when it comes to that, but having consciousness as a major ingredient does shift the perspective a bit (everything becomes "evolutionary" in a sense).
The way they think of the future reminds you of the Singularity theories. If Ray Kurzweil and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin wrote a book together, it wouldn't be far from this.
The one thing that's a bit far out is the claim that consciousness could, in theory, interact with matter directly, not just through regular mechanisms (brain, nerves, muscles, etc). They do insist it's super-hard to do in practice. They do shun the miraculous stuff, they insist that the change of consciousness is all that really matters here and now in a spiritual endeavor. In this regard they're not very far from, say, your run of the mill buddhist school of meditation.
As long as Aurobindo and Mirra were alive, they kept the place as non-cult-ish as humanly possible. I would say they even had a remarkable amount of skepticism, aside from the claims mentioned above. I'd like to visit Auroville one day, to see how things have changed in the decades since Mirra's passing.
Hard to explain. I've seen plenty of crazy places (adventurous youth + interest for spirituality, yadda-yadda), but the stuff that Aurobindo + Mirra started strikes me as remarkably... rational, I guess?
I think Sam Harris feels very strongly that consciousness is real. I don't think he cares how you get that. Panpsychism gives you that for free. Ergo...
"The one thing that's a bit far out is the claim that consciousness could, in theory, interact with matter directly"
I think that claim like this alone, is not so far stretched, when you assume consciousness comes from brain activity, ~ electricity - and with classical physics, magnetic/electric fields or even quantum physics, everything is connected and interacts - consciousness do influences matter. So when you have a different thought, a different magnetic field is the result, etc. that does influence matter directly.
The far stretch claim is, that conscious can have a directed, focused effect and not just be random.
Anyway, the idea that mind can influence matter directly(magic thinking), is a very old one and I think the majority of the world population is still holding to it. Allmost every religious person does (in a different way). And in nonreligious, educated, western people I have seen it quite a lot, too. Most are not really conscious about it, though.
The thing is, once you accept the premise of panpsychism, you sort of have to at least sit and think about whether a direct action might be possible somehow.
I lived at Auroville for 3 months for a college study aborad. Wild experience. The Matramandir (the big gold dome) was a very remarkable and weird building. Definitely cult-ish, but also so truly different and innovative.
So it seems that they do handle the Visa situation for you (it appears that you enter India on an Entry Visa; which I understand you don't have the right to stay in India just the right of passage). There are still two other things: Taxes and Healthcare. Are you supposed to be paying taxes on your activities (if you are doing Online/Offshore work since there are no private companies in Auroville). How is healthcare handled since it can get very expensive for old people.
I kind of would have expected Yoga and spiritual things, but it appears they are genuinely interested in the technical skills required for hands-on self-sufficiency.
82 comments
[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 111 ms ] threadThough I'm told everything almost fell apart after a founder or big leader died and the government had to step in. It's the Indian government so usually that's a disaster but this one seems to have turned out okay.
Anyway, it's unlikely the website can handle an average company let alone HN so mirrors:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200427170816/https://www.aurov...
http://archive.is/BjdIk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auroville
There is an element of cult to the place but their message is good
Nothing new, really: and this is pretty sad.
These places make great sets for fun movies though ...
'Kids born it poverty can't go to University so factory work is their 'choice', why should we deny them work at the factory?'
Seriously?
If it were just 'some place' then it would be more of a rhetorical question, but the entire point of the villages is to create a place where people are equal irrespective of clour or creed, so the hypocrisy looms large. Maybe they can take their free time to ponder such questions because though answers are never obvious, there are opportunities for improvement.
Away from the residents, the place was very peaceful and serene. But, it felt like a few decades of social stratification had created a power hierarchy.
P.S. not a nomad.
You need gatekeepers, else the deer eat all your roses.
I remember there being some slightly strange rules you had to agree to in order to stay there (e.g. no sex) but the "staff" (don't know if they were employees or devotees?) were welcoming and the accommodations were great. The compound is right on the Bay of Bengal and sleeping in that room with the windows open and the waves crashing was an experience I'll never forget.
That's not uncommon for a spiritual retreat type of place.
this picture is bit aspirational compared to satellite pictures of the area: https://goo.gl/maps/4xqCoBVwbbqy51Z29
The ban-hammer heavy moderation doesn't really help. I would post this criticism on the subreddit itself, but it would be removed as any criticism of the sub/mods is against the rules and is automatically caught by the AutoMod.
The sub seems to really be in favor of progressive skeptical thinking but the manner in which the mods operate the subreddit is exactly the opposite.
Please don't say it unless you visited all of them. I've been to places where this is not true.
The Auroville Charter Auroville belongs to nobody in particular. Auroville belongs to humanity as a whole. But, to live in Auroville, one must be a willing servitor of the Divine Consciousness. Auroville will be the place of an unending education, of constant progress, and a youth that never ages. Auroville wants to be the bridge between the past and the future. Taking advantage of all discoveries from without and from within, Auroville will boldly spring towards future realisations. Auroville will be a site of material and spiritual researches for a living embodiment of an actual human unity."
Well that sounds completely normal /s
I've seen Midsommar, no thanks
Also, when you actually visit Auroville, you find that it has splintered into disparate communities that sometimes outright dislike one another. Again, this seems very different from cults, which tend to insist on forced unity and orthodoxy among its membership.
There's a book called "Sri Aurobindo or the Adventure of Consciousness" by a guy named Satprem, which pretty much gives you the founding story of the place.
Caveat - Satprem was a disciple, so this is not a view from the outside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG9QfEMd_GU
My family are all based in Pondicherry and have very strong historical links with the Sri Aurobindo Ashram and the Mother. And are also involved in the Auroville administration and management. I've been there a lot, I've stayed there, met many people who live there and work there.
And it's an unusual place. Some of the folks in Pondy call it "Horrorvile" because of the reputation of seediness that some residents are alleged to have (sex abuse of local children, if you want to know). There is also a unusual "un-Indian" feeling about the place because of the nationality of its residents (global).
However, I have met only nice people there, doing wonderful projects (solar bike sheds, environmentally-suitable architecture) and it is well worth a few visits.
On the other hand, there is quite a difference between the mission statement and the practice of its values. Money isn't really supposed to change hands for work and housing. This is bullshit; many people have commercial sidelines and housing does get bought and sold. Rules are there to be bent and of course, they are.
Some of the security staff can be real jobsworths and exceedingly officious, which can irritate people. And it feels a bit lawless in some regards, hovering uneasily between spirituality, cultishness and the Indian democracy.
It's a peculiar place. But you probably got that already.
I always view these types of movements with a lot of suspicion. Mainly because of the falsehoods they present. Self-realization is not something that can be taught by following someone else. You can spend your entire life looking for it in other people. But you have to experience it, to truly understand. You shouldn't even listen to what I'm writing here, as this entire comment could be a similar falsehood that detracts you in your search.
If you believe that, why are you writing it then?
I think, because you do believe, that text can help others understand something. Not always, though.
If you believe that, why are you writing it then?
People are not simple flowcharts. They can have all sorts of motivations that aren't literal interpretations of what comes out of their mouth. But you know that. So why are you asking the question?
"Question reality", as they say.
"Language itself is a distortion of your thoughts" is just one of those truths, one of the first things any growing human being sees when they start on a journey of spiritual growth. The point of it is not to stop using or stop trusting the language, stop communicating. The point is to see how it works and how it relates to the rest of the self, so that it can fulfill its great potential as a tool for spiritual growth and learning.
sounds about right for a commune
Even the stuff they say - I can at least sit down and consider it without freaking out instantly.
In some ways they resemble the very modern panpsychist school of thought (Giulio Tononi, Sam Harris). Consciousness is a basic ingredient of matter. Both matter and consciousness are real. Evolution is real. There is no biblical god. Cosmology - they defer to science when it comes to that, but having consciousness as a major ingredient does shift the perspective a bit (everything becomes "evolutionary" in a sense).
The way they think of the future reminds you of the Singularity theories. If Ray Kurzweil and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin wrote a book together, it wouldn't be far from this.
The one thing that's a bit far out is the claim that consciousness could, in theory, interact with matter directly, not just through regular mechanisms (brain, nerves, muscles, etc). They do insist it's super-hard to do in practice. They do shun the miraculous stuff, they insist that the change of consciousness is all that really matters here and now in a spiritual endeavor. In this regard they're not very far from, say, your run of the mill buddhist school of meditation.
As long as Aurobindo and Mirra were alive, they kept the place as non-cult-ish as humanly possible. I would say they even had a remarkable amount of skepticism, aside from the claims mentioned above. I'd like to visit Auroville one day, to see how things have changed in the decades since Mirra's passing.
Hard to explain. I've seen plenty of crazy places (adventurous youth + interest for spirituality, yadda-yadda), but the stuff that Aurobindo + Mirra started strikes me as remarkably... rational, I guess?
Read and draw your own conclusions.
I think that claim like this alone, is not so far stretched, when you assume consciousness comes from brain activity, ~ electricity - and with classical physics, magnetic/electric fields or even quantum physics, everything is connected and interacts - consciousness do influences matter. So when you have a different thought, a different magnetic field is the result, etc. that does influence matter directly.
The far stretch claim is, that conscious can have a directed, focused effect and not just be random.
Anyway, the idea that mind can influence matter directly(magic thinking), is a very old one and I think the majority of the world population is still holding to it. Allmost every religious person does (in a different way). And in nonreligious, educated, western people I have seen it quite a lot, too. Most are not really conscious about it, though.
BTW, their course offering looks very good: https://edu.auroville.org/courses
- Construction & application of Ferrocement
- Production of & construction using CSEB
- Arches, Vaults & Domes - Masonry
I kind of would have expected Yoga and spiritual things, but it appears they are genuinely interested in the technical skills required for hands-on self-sufficiency.