Tesla can’t sell cars direct to customers in Texas either. California has actually been pretty friendly for Tesla, the shutdown must be hurting their business significantly for Musk to react like this.
Musk should negotiate with the state of Texas: If you want to grow and compete, having a Tesla presence in Texas, you're gonna have to get rid of ancient absurd laws.
A kind request to please consider a more substantive alternative to your comment, as recommended by the HN guidelines as I understand them. There's no perspective I can gain by reading a comment that essentially expresses an upvote or downvote on a view, and I expect you have a perspective worth sharing.
Some historical context from the Wikipedia article a sibling comment links to, because a few seem to assume some states created this law as a response to Tesla:
"The laws against direct sales arose historically in the United States starting in the 1930s, as automobile manufacturers started using independently franchised dealerships to offload the tasks of retail selling and servicing vehicles.[35] The laws have been actively defended into the 21st century and extended to online in-state sales.[36][37] Such regulations protect dealerships against a manufacturer opening its own dealerships and competing against resellers, which could be seen as an abuse of the manufacturer-franchise relationship.[35] Critics view the laws as thwarting legitimate competitive pressure that benefits consumers, and some have described them as "protectionism",[35] and "crony capitalism".[38]"
This continues Musk’s politically incorrect response to COVID19. He’s already claimed it would be no worse than the flu, that children are basically immune, and he violated the original shutdown order until basically forced to stop production. Tesla employees were called back on site on Friday and asked to resume manufacturing. Alameda County put out a statement that the shutdown was still in place, prompting Musk’s response.
With one caveat that he's not an engineer. At best he has some experience as a web developer but is largely a money guy having gotten his start from his family's emerald mine in apartheid South Africa.
If you're going to claim Musk isn't an engineer then you're defining the term so narrowly it stops being interesting. Biographies of him are quite clear that when he decided to make SpaceX he spent a very long period of time indeed doing nothing but reading rocket science textbooks; it was the knowledge of rocketry he gained by doing that which allowed him to realise which problems needed to be solved, that they could be solved, who could do the work to solve them and most importantly to gain the confidence of other rocket engine designers and convince them to join him. He pretty routinely engages in technical discussion about rockets, what happened, what went wrong etc.
That's on top of his experience as a software developer.
So if you're going to claim Musk isn't an engineer then really neither was Bill Gates, Larry Page, or other people who did some initial work and had some expertise in what their company did but rapidly became a professional executive.
There's more examples from interviews with people at SpaceX on YouTube I can't find right now. Web development and rocket science are two very different domains.
I'm not an American but by the look of it the restrictions in California are insane when you look at their case numbers. I'm comparing it with European countries where I live but California can't close their borders either to control the flow of infected from other places.
The question is, to what end? Unless the state remains closed for the next 12 months (ie: until a successful vaccine exists in mass quantities) at some point the numbers will go up. So staying closed longer doesn't really help (as long as rates are kept under "hospitals implode" levels) and just ensure an even larger economic decimation.
edit: As for your emotional point, how many dead black and latino Californians will there be over the next 30 years due to the massive increase in poverty?
You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions? The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work.
>You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions?
The mortality rate for working age people isn't very high so, no, I doubt the economic impact will be as great. The deaths would be mainly among older non-working relatives. Which is a horrible thing from a human perspective but if you want to argue cold numbers that's what they are.
>The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work.
And I also wish unicorns were real. They're not. The federal government won't do anything except open a bottle of champagne for every 10000 dead democrats. The state government lacks the money to actually do anything.
I never spread this idea. We both agree that not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. Not that I want to share my identity, but I am a living example of this.
But you do recognize that more hispanics are poorer on average than some other races, for example whites, right? So on average, a lot of Hispanic families will be disproportionately affected by having to go to work during unsafe conditions compared to white families who are secure enough to shelter at home until the pandemic boils over. This is literally the basis of systemic/institutional racism/inequalities. You can't deny one and not the other.
> Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor.
That was never said, you're arguing against a straw man. Hispanic people in the US, as a race, have the lowest median and average income of any racial group [0]. That doesn't mean that they are all poor, or that there is something inherently wrong with them, its just a statement of fact.
Cherry picking certain facts that support your agenda. Or hiding facts that would help reveal the real 'truthiness'. Only in striving to understand the full picture can get you anywhere to understanding reality.
Nothing is black and white. Lots of things are immeasurably complex.
Facts are not at all racist, but rather the same point that crime statistics don't imply all people of one type are that thing. I'm saying the same is true that not all hispanic people are poor, or born poor.
> Why else do you think we've managed to keep it in control despite having some dense city centers?
I've got a tiger repelling rock to sell you, only $6 Trillion.
Seriously, why does everyone need to stay at home, rather than those that feel vulnerable decide for themselves? We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Also, as a bonus, we'd reach herd immunity much faster.
> Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him.
He'd rather save his business. And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
> Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis.
It's the same as "You don't see any tigers around do you?" It's anecdotal. How do you know which of what you said is doing it, Shelter in place, ppe, physical distancing, or something else? You have no idea.
>> decide for themselves
>They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing.
Hey, thanks for snipping out the subject of "those that feel vulnerable" and implying I was talking about the majority of voters. And, you also know the person that ordered the stay at home order was appointed right?
>> And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
> I don't have any data to tell you who that would be.
A state without private enterprise is not a good one for those "10,000 latinos and blacks" you worry so much about.
But as I said your state borders are opened, so what's the end game? The whole Europe didn't just stop manufacturing (as a comparison), they just implemented distancing and sanitation rules etc.
I hear this regurgitated very often but I've never seen any evidence of this. Basic reasoning follows that there would be some drop in cases as a result of the forced closure of all non-essential businesses, but due to the universal nature of the closures I'm not aware of any way to quantify how much it's helping. It could very well be that widespread social distancing and voluntary measures could produce a similar outcome. Is there any study that confirms or debunks this?
I'm not familiar with one, and would think it would be very hard to create the controlled circumstances to so so without so many other variables between the study areas confounding the data too much.
You can generally infer it from restrictions in places that had high case counts and then enforced stay at home measures. Looking at the per-day growth rates in NYC, Italy, LA, etc. before and after the instantiation of stay at home measures is pretty convincing.
We'll probably have some more data as places start to reopen.
With an oil collapse I would think this is a great time to move into Texas. I will be as proud to buy a Tesla from there as I am to buy one from Fremont. Perhaps he will relocate his employees, too, who can enjoy a lower COL.
Wasn't Tesla given the opportunity to use or acquire the Fremont plant as part of a deal to find a use for the old newmie gm plant? I mean it's one thing if they had bought the land and developed on it, its another if they were given a better deal than that.
To require non-essential workers to go back to work right now is far more fascist than to require people to stay in place to protect their health, but Elon sees it the other way. He wants people to weigh whether their lives and their loved ones lives are worth being able to afford living in a society that won't give them a bailout because of scabs like Elon, only focusing on stopping the economic bleeding while humans are hurting in more profound ways.
We don't live in some utopic society where Elon gets a special authority to do whatever floats his enormous personal debt. Compromise is required. That means selling some TSLA shares to pay that debt so that you don't become a scum-sucking demon.
Who's requiring anyone to go back to work? Nobody is forced to work at Tesla. Anyone who wants to continue not working is free to do so. Right now, nobody who wants to work at that particular plant is free to do so.
Actually, if you refuse to go back to work because of safety reasons in PA or IN, your employer will snitch on you, and you will not get unemployment benefits.
"First, I’d like to be super clear that if you feel the slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable, please don’t feel obligated to come to work. I will personally be at work, but that is just me. Totally OK if you want to stay home for any reason."
Through the political pressure that Elon is exerting, it should be clear to his employees that he thinks they have poor judgement if they choose to stay home. Why would you feel safe working there during or after this?
Also, if you are working in unsafe conditions right now and you aren't an essential employee -- you are a scab who is making negotiating national benefits harder which would otherwise help every working person more.
This is a classic prisoners dilemma and Elon is unfortunately one of the jailers.
> To require non-essential workers to go back to work right now is far more fascist than to require people to stay in place to protect their health.
How is that more facist?
I am reading the definition of Fascism:
-----
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
-----
I don't want to weigh in what side of the coin I oppose, but your statement isn't making much sense to me, perhaps you can expand.
Case 1: Gov requiring citizens to stay home
Case 2: Gov r̶e̶q̶u̶i̶r̶i̶n̶g allowing citizens to go to work
Both cases are exercise of authority.
Edit: Case 1 is clearly fascist, and Case 2 is not.
His argument is essentially that the lack of authoritarian control is less authoritarian than no authoritarian control. I'm not sure how someone holds such an opinion when its falsehood is self-evident.
My argument is that Elon has sufficient power that he wields against the interests of his employees that he himself is fascist. He is trying to override the policy of democratically elected leadership of Alameda County.
> My argument is that Elon has sufficient power that he wields against the interests of his employees that he himself is fascist.
Elon wants to open his factory. He cannot force anyone to work. He lacks legal authority to do so. If he opens his factory, then his employees may either return to work, or not. This is a choice that they will have to make. Nobody is compelled to do anything in this situation. This is called freedom of association.
And again, Elon merely wants to open his factory. But the government won't let him. So he tweeted his intent to move his company. This is called freedom of speech.
No matter how much it rustles your jimmies, neither freedom of association nor freedom of speech is fascism. Elon is not compelling anyone to do anything. He hasn't advocated compelling anyone to do anything. This is not fascism, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Perhaps you don’t read his Twitter but he has been advocating people there to do a lot. One of those things is to go back to work and open the country immediately.
He would fit in on Fox and Friends with dumbass opinions like this.
Case 1: CEO allows democratically elected county officials and their experts to make policy in accordance with public health
Case 2: CEO abuses authority by coming in to work which pressures his employees to work against the interests of public health and democratically elected leaders
County officials are elected in Alameda. There is the County Central Committee, County Council and the County Supervisors which all have elected members.
Another person elected is Elon Musk, elected by the board of Tesla and not their workers.
Which of these two are more aligned with the needs of the people of Alameda? Why should Tesla policy supersede this ever?
To your second point, Costco is an essential service. It’s not safe for them either.
The interim health officer dr.erica pan who Elon musk named in his tweet is not elected.
Elon musk is not forcing anyone to work.
Are liquor shops and smoke shops ‘essential.’? They are open too. Factories need to be open. They are not like other places of work. It is possible to maintain social distance and more effectively than at a Costco warehouse. At Tesla, they work next to and with robots.
At the end of the day, I support Elon Musk because I know how Alameda County operates. He can’t do anything worse.
Non-partisan experts are doing what they are paid to do.
The reason liquor shops and smoke shops are essential is because there would be an immediate, unregulated and untaxed black market. Not only would it be a public health concern because you cannot regulate how business is done, but it would create an avenue for organized crime to take advantage of the situation.
I don't see any black market Tesla factories popping up in response to the closure in Fremont.
Elon is a hypocrite on this very point. Any reasonable person would feel uncomfortable going to work. Elon goes to work proving himself unreasonable on the topic and then asks his subordinates to "choose for themselves".
People can read between the lines. It is an appeal for loyalty and I bet you he will reward those who respond and retaliate against those who do not.
66% of New York Hospitalizations Statewide Are From People Sheltering at Home, only 3 percent in New York City had been using public transportation, 96 percent had other underlying health conditions:
Just look at the absolute total number of monthly deaths this year (regardless of the reason), month-to-month, and compare it the to past years.
Unless you have another explanation about why specifically this year we have this great spike from February, then it is the COVID, either directly or indirectly.
Dont forget that testing for COVID is basically impossible for an asymptomatic person here in the US.
Unless you have strong proof that the entire public health is engaged in some sort of coverup, please stop spreading conspiracy theories. There’s clearly a large uptick in deaths and it’s global so theories about hospital billing on one country are insufficient to explain it.
You're getting mixed up between figures and then attacking people who understand them better. Please give the benefit of the doubt!
There are two figures being widely reported for deaths:
1. Total excess mortality of all causes
2. "COVID deaths"
The claim was about (2) and so that's what my points were about.
Excess death is up, yes. There's a disease, it does cause people to die, especially if they're already vulnerable.
Arguments about the all cause mortality spikes are different and not related to the arguments for over-counting of "COVID deaths", which isn't a conspiracy theory but rather actual stated government policy [1]. The figure for "COVID deaths" includes cases where it's merely assumed that the death was caused by COVID. No test or even evidence need be cited. If doctors are completely reliable this wouldn't be a problem, but they get a 20% payment incentive when patients are claimed to be COVID patients [2].
If you're curious about the arguments surrounding all-cause mortality, the problem is that stay-at-home orders have been taken very literally by many sick people. Hospital admissions went down, not up, during this time, because people who should have been going to the emergency room for treatment got scared and stayed away. In the UK, the government just dropped the "stay at home" slogan it's been relentlessly promoting for weeks because - amongst other things - cardiac admissions halved, and doctors are now sounding the alarm about the huge oncoming wave of necessary life-saving treatments that were delayed in the expectation of a COVID surge that never happened. The NHS can't absorb a huge wave like that, because the needed treatments are so varied so you can't just throw up uniform field hospitals like they tried for COVID. In the UK the ONS is already reporting thousands of excess deaths not linked to COVID [3] even though being "linked to COVID" literally requires no evidence at all.
You specifically claimed “true number surely being far lower“ than the official numbers and are now citing a conspiracy theorist with no relevant experience as evidence that the scientific establishment is wrong.
I’m sorry you fell for Alex Berenson’s shtick but that doesn’t make you better informed.
He's an investigative journalist, that's about as relevant as you get when investigating things.
The tweets are just shorthand for the links he's posting. Ignore them if you like but the evidence found there is real. The scientific establishment is wrong - how can it be otherwise with such mangled data?
> Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA.
The frustration (and venting) is perhaps understandable, but it's not a good look to be begging for special treatment. Hundreds of bay area folks are currently in the ICU with COVID-19. A bit of carelessness or bad luck and those hundreds will become (tens of) thousands.
98 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 128 ms ] thread[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes#T...
"The laws against direct sales arose historically in the United States starting in the 1930s, as automobile manufacturers started using independently franchised dealerships to offload the tasks of retail selling and servicing vehicles.[35] The laws have been actively defended into the 21st century and extended to online in-state sales.[36][37] Such regulations protect dealerships against a manufacturer opening its own dealerships and competing against resellers, which could be seen as an abuse of the manufacturer-franchise relationship.[35] Critics view the laws as thwarting legitimate competitive pressure that benefits consumers, and some have described them as "protectionism",[35] and "crony capitalism".[38]"
It's dangerous how prone he is to fashioning himself to be an authority on things he knows nothing about.
If you're going to claim Musk isn't an engineer then you're defining the term so narrowly it stops being interesting. Biographies of him are quite clear that when he decided to make SpaceX he spent a very long period of time indeed doing nothing but reading rocket science textbooks; it was the knowledge of rocketry he gained by doing that which allowed him to realise which problems needed to be solved, that they could be solved, who could do the work to solve them and most importantly to gain the confidence of other rocket engine designers and convince them to join him. He pretty routinely engages in technical discussion about rockets, what happened, what went wrong etc.
That's on top of his experience as a software developer.
So if you're going to claim Musk isn't an engineer then really neither was Bill Gates, Larry Page, or other people who did some initial work and had some expertise in what their company did but rapidly became a professional executive.
>Elon Reeve Musk FRS (/ˈiːlɒn/; born June 28, 1971) is an engineer, industrial designer, technology entrepreneur, scientist and philanthropist
Still haters gonna hate.
To be fair and pedantic, he's proven expertise in broad areas. Regardless, I agree with your last point.
As far as I know it's mostly VC and some product design leadership.
https://www.quora.com/Does-Elon-Musk-do-some-very-technical-...
There's more examples from interviews with people at SpaceX on YouTube I can't find right now. Web development and rocket science are two very different domains.
Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him.
People driving Tesla, I'll be thinking of this when I see you behind the wheel.
edit: As for your emotional point, how many dead black and latino Californians will there be over the next 30 years due to the massive increase in poverty?
This is about valuing and protecting lives.
The mortality rate for working age people isn't very high so, no, I doubt the economic impact will be as great. The deaths would be mainly among older non-working relatives. Which is a horrible thing from a human perspective but if you want to argue cold numbers that's what they are.
>The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work.
And I also wish unicorns were real. They're not. The federal government won't do anything except open a bottle of champagne for every 10000 dead democrats. The state government lacks the money to actually do anything.
It really really does more harm than good. It's a mild form of racism, the same as the people who spout crime statistics
I never spread this idea. We both agree that not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. Not that I want to share my identity, but I am a living example of this.
My point is much simpler. Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor
That was never said, you're arguing against a straw man. Hispanic people in the US, as a race, have the lowest median and average income of any racial group [0]. That doesn't mean that they are all poor, or that there is something inherently wrong with them, its just a statement of fact.
[0] https://dqydj.com/income-by-race/
Nothing is black and white. Lots of things are immeasurably complex.
People seem to be okay with saying that
I've got a tiger repelling rock to sell you, only $6 Trillion.
Seriously, why does everyone need to stay at home, rather than those that feel vulnerable decide for themselves? We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Also, as a bonus, we'd reach herd immunity much faster.
> Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him.
He'd rather save his business. And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-cases-drop-by-...
> decide for themselves
They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing.
> We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society.
Sounds like an interesting proposal, but that is another topic altogether.
> And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
I don't have any data to tell you who that would be.
It's the same as "You don't see any tigers around do you?" It's anecdotal. How do you know which of what you said is doing it, Shelter in place, ppe, physical distancing, or something else? You have no idea.
>> decide for themselves
>They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing.
Hey, thanks for snipping out the subject of "those that feel vulnerable" and implying I was talking about the majority of voters. And, you also know the person that ordered the stay at home order was appointed right?
>> And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
> I don't have any data to tell you who that would be.
A state without private enterprise is not a good one for those "10,000 latinos and blacks" you worry so much about.
We'll probably have some more data as places start to reopen.
We don't live in some utopic society where Elon gets a special authority to do whatever floats his enormous personal debt. Compromise is required. That means selling some TSLA shares to pay that debt so that you don't become a scum-sucking demon.
"First, I’d like to be super clear that if you feel the slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable, please don’t feel obligated to come to work. I will personally be at work, but that is just me. Totally OK if you want to stay home for any reason."
https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/elon-musk-tesla-coronavirus-p...
Also, if you are working in unsafe conditions right now and you aren't an essential employee -- you are a scab who is making negotiating national benefits harder which would otherwise help every working person more.
This is a classic prisoners dilemma and Elon is unfortunately one of the jailers.
How is that more facist?
I am reading the definition of Fascism:
-----
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
-----
I don't want to weigh in what side of the coin I oppose, but your statement isn't making much sense to me, perhaps you can expand.
Case 1: Gov requiring citizens to stay home
Case 2: Gov r̶e̶q̶u̶i̶r̶i̶n̶g allowing citizens to go to work
Both cases are exercise of authority.
Edit: Case 1 is clearly fascist, and Case 2 is not.
Should be clear which case is fascist.
Elon wants to open his factory. He cannot force anyone to work. He lacks legal authority to do so. If he opens his factory, then his employees may either return to work, or not. This is a choice that they will have to make. Nobody is compelled to do anything in this situation. This is called freedom of association.
And again, Elon merely wants to open his factory. But the government won't let him. So he tweeted his intent to move his company. This is called freedom of speech.
No matter how much it rustles your jimmies, neither freedom of association nor freedom of speech is fascism. Elon is not compelling anyone to do anything. He hasn't advocated compelling anyone to do anything. This is not fascism, not by any stretch of the imagination.
He would fit in on Fox and Friends with dumbass opinions like this.
Case 2: CEO abuses authority by coming in to work which pressures his employees to work against the interests of public health and democratically elected leaders
Case 2 is clearly fascist and Case 1 is not.
Why is working at Costco safer than working at Tesla?
Have you been to Tesla factory? Social distancing is probably easier there than at Costco. Just saying..
Another person elected is Elon Musk, elected by the board of Tesla and not their workers.
Which of these two are more aligned with the needs of the people of Alameda? Why should Tesla policy supersede this ever?
To your second point, Costco is an essential service. It’s not safe for them either.
Elon musk is not forcing anyone to work.
Are liquor shops and smoke shops ‘essential.’? They are open too. Factories need to be open. They are not like other places of work. It is possible to maintain social distance and more effectively than at a Costco warehouse. At Tesla, they work next to and with robots.
At the end of the day, I support Elon Musk because I know how Alameda County operates. He can’t do anything worse.
The reason liquor shops and smoke shops are essential is because there would be an immediate, unregulated and untaxed black market. Not only would it be a public health concern because you cannot regulate how business is done, but it would create an avenue for organized crime to take advantage of the situation.
I don't see any black market Tesla factories popping up in response to the closure in Fremont.
People can read between the lines. It is an appeal for loyalty and I bet you he will reward those who respond and retaliate against those who do not.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronaviru...
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-sur...
33% are from nursing homes:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronaviru...
• The huge numbers dying of what would otherwise be called old age who simply happen to test positive at the moment of death.
• The financial incentives hospitals are given to code deaths as COVID.
• The rampant reporting of COVID without tests based on nothing more than suspicion (combine that with the second point)
At this point the death counts for COVID around the world are so corrupted they're basically meaningless.
Dont forget that testing for COVID is basically impossible for an asymptomatic person here in the US.
Adding a source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...
There are two figures being widely reported for deaths:
1. Total excess mortality of all causes
2. "COVID deaths"
The claim was about (2) and so that's what my points were about.
Excess death is up, yes. There's a disease, it does cause people to die, especially if they're already vulnerable.
Arguments about the all cause mortality spikes are different and not related to the arguments for over-counting of "COVID deaths", which isn't a conspiracy theory but rather actual stated government policy [1]. The figure for "COVID deaths" includes cases where it's merely assumed that the death was caused by COVID. No test or even evidence need be cited. If doctors are completely reliable this wouldn't be a problem, but they get a 20% payment incentive when patients are claimed to be COVID patients [2].
If you're curious about the arguments surrounding all-cause mortality, the problem is that stay-at-home orders have been taken very literally by many sick people. Hospital admissions went down, not up, during this time, because people who should have been going to the emergency room for treatment got scared and stayed away. In the UK, the government just dropped the "stay at home" slogan it's been relentlessly promoting for weeks because - amongst other things - cardiac admissions halved, and doctors are now sounding the alarm about the huge oncoming wave of necessary life-saving treatments that were delayed in the expectation of a COVID surge that never happened. The NHS can't absorb a huge wave like that, because the needed treatments are so varied so you can't just throw up uniform field hospitals like they tried for COVID. In the UK the ONS is already reporting thousands of excess deaths not linked to COVID [3] even though being "linked to COVID" literally requires no evidence at all.
There are very real problems here.
[1] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1246124190438227974?...
[2] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1251898539107594244?...
[3] https://medium.com/wintoncentre/covid-and-excess-deaths-in-t...
I’m sorry you fell for Alex Berenson’s shtick but that doesn’t make you better informed.
The tweets are just shorthand for the links he's posting. Ignore them if you like but the evidence found there is real. The scientific establishment is wrong - how can it be otherwise with such mangled data?
The frustration (and venting) is perhaps understandable, but it's not a good look to be begging for special treatment. Hundreds of bay area folks are currently in the ICU with COVID-19. A bit of carelessness or bad luck and those hundreds will become (tens of) thousands.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html