Ask HN: How do you develop internal motivation?

You just gotta find something you love. If you're passionate about what you're studying, you'll look forward to doing it.

Internal motivation basically = being passionate about something.

Everyone's passionate about something.

You cannot develop internal motivation. In my experience, when you have some vision that you are excited about, motivation is not a problem. That vision can take many forms, but it's often some concrete outcome that you understand how to accomplish, and desire to achieve (for whatever reason).

> I know how to cook, but if I'm cooking for myself, I'll probably be lazy -- I might just eat something straight out of the packet! -- but if I'm cooking for myself and others, I'll go to the trouble of making something good.

You do have internal motivation in this scenario. You are internally motivated to impress and/or do nice things for others.

> I'm interested in doing a PhD. That requires enormous amounts of internal motivation, for several years straight, when there's little-to-no external motivation. I see that this could therefore be my downfall.

Why are you interested in doing a PhD? It sounds like maybe something that you like the idea of, more than something that you actually want to do. Why not focus on the things that you do actually want to do?

> How does one develop and maintain internal motivation? What can one do, for example, to renew their enthusiasm if/when it starts to dwindle?

One of the key things is to maintain good emotional health. So things like sleep, exercise, diet, etc. This won't make you motivated to do things that you're uninterested in, but it may help you to maintain motivation for things that you are.

There could be a lot of solutions to your problem, depending on what personally motivates you.

I personally develop internal motivation by putting myself in situations where I structurally do the correct thing. When I was living by myself, I'd cook a ton of healthy food on Sundays. That meant that it was always easier for me to eat healthy than it was to order out. I've also spent a lot of time asking myself what type of work I like to do. I like working on things that help people, and I managed to work at a company where working on the core business feels like the work I want to do.

But I'm not you. You need to look inside first and ask yourself what causes you to act and when you avoid it. Going through this kind of list might help: https://www.indiehackers.com/post/questions-to-ask-yourself-...

It sounds like you might be extrinsically motivated, based on your cooking example. You would need to find ways to continually hold yourself accountable. For instance, joining a Mastermind group (where you meet once a week and give your updates on your progress on something) would give you a reason to try to make progress every week. People who have gone to grad school can comment on any extrinsic motivation you might get from the program - I imagine your advisor would have some thoughts about that, but I don't know how involved advisors are.

Maybe you prefer having a sense of progress. You could split your work into smaller milestones, and then work to achieve each of the milestones.

You could also try the Jerry Seinfeld "Don't break the chain" method - https://www.writersstore.com/dont-break-the-chain-jerry-sein... has more info.

There is a way to develop internal motivation - in my opinion it is one part the realisation that you want to be motivated and the other part putting in the hard yards to build habits. For the first part I always refer to the concept of the elephant driver as a reminder.

"NYU psychologist Jonathan Haidt uses a lovely analogy to explain both: the emotional side is the elephant, the rational side is the rider. The rider of the elephant looks like he or she is in charge, but when there’s a disagreement between the elephant and the rider, the elephant usually wins.

Chip and Dan Heath's superb book, Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard, builds on this analogy and talks about directing the rider (rational brain: responsible for planning and direction, but can get paralyzed overthinking things) and motivating the elephant (emotional brain: prefers quick gratification over long term, but gets things done). Numerous experiments show that the rider can get exhausted trying to motivate the elephant and needs time to recover. This is why, if you’re trying to eat healthily while on the road, you tend to make bad choices at the end of a long day and opt for that extra glass of beer."

For the second part use mobile apps/smart watch to help you build habits. Being an unashamed apple user I rely on streaks to be my habit builder but there are many similar applicatons out there. Gamify your own life. Because at the end of the day life is a game. And if you want to get to the next level you have to play it.

As a starting point, try to accept that you find comfort in idleness. Be ok with sitting and doing nothing. It sounds like your anxiety is being driven by your guilt in not achieving enough.

Make sure you get enough sleep. I don't know of a single bigger correlate to lack of motivation than lack of sleep.

When you do feel motivation and work on something for some time, leave something undone at the end to pick up on. Something small to get the ball rolling.

Look after the big issues in your life. If there's something looming or lurking, you may procrastinate (which might look like enthusiasm for a diversion) but only at a surface level, like your brain is fidgeting trying to keep your mind off the big bad thing(s).

For something like a PhD, I think it's unusual for internal motivation to last. Most people I know who've completed did it to get it done, rather than relying on internal motivation. They were so sick of the material by the end that enthusiasm had worn away, like a mouthful of food chewed for too long.

Read the Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin.

It speaks specifically to this, and basically says if you are motivated by external forces, that's how you're wired and you should capitalize on it... it is a waste of time to try get 'internally' motivated. A lot of people are this way, and there is nothing wrong with it.

I liken it to a car that runs on gas... retrofitting it to run on diesel (or electric) is counter-productive... just tune it up so it efficient at burning gas.

You predicament reminds me of The Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin. The tendencies are based around whether you respond or don't respond to expectations, and whether the expectations are internal or external. From how you've described yourself, you sound like the common "obliger" type: responds well to external expectations, not so much to internal expectations. If that sounds like you, try finding ways to introduce external expectations for the things you'd like to do but don't. E.g., if you wanted to start working out, you'd be better off getting a trainer who expects you to show up than just telling yourself that you'll go to the gym.

It's not a scientific framework, but I think it's a helpful mental model all the same.

I believe maybe you could be missing a "traumatic" life experience.

I know a guy who spent 2 years in a call center without finishing high school. Today he works as a full stack developer and even complete uni.

He says when he feels lazy, he remembers his life in the call center and the motivation suddenly appears. I have something similar since I work with my Dad doing deliveries and we had to wake up at 4:30 am.

When you get too comfortable, you don't have the need to do better.

It is no surprise that (most) world-class people came from poor backgrounds and had to fight for everything they have today (not excluding other backgrounds). They now how terrible life can be and are not willing to pay the price of laziness, they know it first hand.

TLDR: You need to have been in a really bad spot in your life, to know the true cost of laziness and not taking opportunities.

> "I know how to cook, but if I'm cooking for myself, I'll probably be lazy"

> "How does one develop and maintain internal motivation?"

> "... Besides "passion" and "enthusiasm" ..."

Perhaps it's an unwarranted bias on my part, but I cringe whenever I hear 'passion' brought up as the answer in this context, for this reason: it seems to me there is a distinction between monkey and user, e.g. the hedonistic monkey that drives us towards the easiest dopamine hits and the user that can override the hollow desires and moves us in a direction of actual fulfillment. The user can be passionate and it won't make a lick of difference if you're still letting the monkey sit in the driver's seat.

Assuming this metaphor makes sense, how does one put the user more in control? In my experience becoming conscience of this push-pull -- daily, hourly -- makes the most difference. Then it is a matter of learning, training yourself, to become responsive to the user. During this process I've found it is important to focus on mentally rewarding yourself for improvements and not fall into continually chastising yourself for 'not doing enough,' etc.

>I'm interested in doing a PhD

Are you interested in doing a PhD to do a PhD, or are you deeply interested in the subject area and doing a PhD is an avenue to explore it?

That's going to make all the difference. If you're doing it to add something to your resume it'll be a long, difficult and likely unrewarding journey.

I find that if you're truly passionate about what you regularly do, there will be times that you burn out. That's when you switch to doing something else, traveling or learning something tangentially.

But eventually I then take steps to get back to moving forward. I'm from the "Stay Hungry" camp of motivation to progress forward.

Plus there's nothing like the clock to remind you that time is wasting. The one thing that none of us can buy more of is time. We can only rent someone else's time and with varied degree of success. But since our lives are finite and the list can be long, there's motivation to continue to check things off that list before time runs out.

I think my primary motivation is pretty much limited to video games, mating instinct, food and shiny new things. maybe singing in the shower. the rest is just social pressure. As for how to develop it, i don't have a clue. I think it goes beyond the malleability of the brain to develop new primary motivation. But secondary motivation can often be good enough. true, you won't love what you're doing but it's not necessary to love your job.

Probably there's no easy answer. I guess if you could think yourself into getting motivated you'd already do that.

Some things that help me:

- right environment. If you want a PhD it's probably good idea to join some kind of research group you will feel good being part of or advisor you get with on very well. For the record I don't have a PhD but both of those things made quite a big difference for me when I was learning stuff throughout high school/university (though this is something I've realized quite late). Judging by how you put more effort when cooking for other, I guess you'd also put more effort when learning with others.

- setting realistic expectations. Sometimes it may be a good idea to lower your standards, for example change "cook healthy meal every day" to "cook healthy meal once a week". I'm a perfectionist so it helps me to say something like "OK, maybe I won't write a great design doc for the new thing my team is working but design something where X and Y work well but Z and T are not working so well". Often it turns out Z and T are not so important or that I can do iterative improvements on them

- getting bored from time to time. Planning to "waste" a day (though it's better to do this not in front of computer).

Unabomber's [1] writings introduced me to the concept of "artificial needs". All the things that you list are artificial needs - wanting nice meal when eating from the packaging satisfies you just fine, doing a PhD when there's really no need to do it etc. He explained that, since in the West all our real needs are meet with ease, we've now entered an era of deformation, where people try to find meaning in their lives via artificial goals (just like the ones you've mentioned). However, our monkey brain can't be easily fooled into doing bullshit busywork just to provide "meaning" - hence your problems with procrastination. I find life is much easier when I accept this and don't strive to do things just for the sake of doing them.

[1] He wasn't the original author of this observation as far as I recall.

Are you even interested in the PhD or in the subject itself? I think if not, then no internal motivation works.

I tend to think of myself as a really internally motivated person, as I have a various hobbies that I cultivate that requires disciplines in muscular and mental side. But I am interested in all of those hobbies, and I never dread the moment where I have to train, practice, or study related to those subjects.

No end goal in sight for me, it is purely for internal enjoyment. Maybe one day create a youtube/instagram channel for fun and showoff but that's about it.

I've felt similar to you for a long time, but have recently (over the last year) had a fundamental shift. I'm loathe to ever recommend self-help books (I used to work in publishing, and I know how most of those books get written. Hint: Not by the author, and not based on real research.), but I'd really recommend picking up Atomic Habits.

The big aha moment for me was in the separation of systems and goals. I always struggled with the same kind of procrastination as you--if there was a pressing need, I'd rise to the occasion, but otherwise was content with the minimum--despite having large ambitions (am also strongly considering a PhD, weirdly enough). The book does a nice job of explaining goals as things that are distant, and so can really never be "pressing" or rewarding short term, whereas systems can have a pulling effect i.e. I don't have one singular side project with a schedule that I'm constantly failing to hit, I have a system in which I write code for fun for at least an hour each morning, during which time I let myself listen to new music and try random ideas while I have coffee.

I might not hit peak productivity, but I do it everyday because I enjoy it. I look forward to it when I wake up. The system pulls me in, and as a result, I'm actually way more productive overall.

Concentrating on something for a long period is easy if it brings you fulfilment, therefore if you study what most interests you, you'll achieve excellent results.

I don’t think you’re not motivated. For example, I feel the same when cooking. In fact, one of your motivators might be that you need to do things for others or else that task has no meaning.

I took an exam called career leader a while ago. Like one of those professional strengths, exams. It provided a good framework to think about this.

A few motivators the exam ranks you on are things like “prestige”, “altruism”, “autonomy”, “recognition”, “lifestyle”, “security” ..etc. you then get your results with which of those attributes you score highest on. Ultimately,I think it comes down to what you value more. You should then really question how what you do aligns with those motivators and optimize for the tasks that put your motivators ahead.

Here’s a sample report that has them all listed, and framed it better for me: https://www.hec.ca/etudiants/soutien-ressources/gestion-carr...

Get anxiety disorder. Seems to fear you into working.

I have thoughts/daydreams/impulses that I used to dismiss as frivolous or unimportant. E.g. I love to research and read up on new synthesizers. I’m a bit obsessed. When I’m in a good coffee shop or am baking, I often daydream about having my own coffee shop. Now, this is not to say I should open a coffee shop and drop 10k on new synth gear. BUT... it’s worth investigating why these impulses occur. (Do I want to create? Make customers happy? ...) If I can tap into urges that occur spontaneously, then I can reframe and leverage those to motivate myself.

If you are particularly content in doing nothing, you may have schizoid personality disorder.

Well, my therapist might ask, “what is this procrastination doing for you?” How do you feel when I say, well, just do it. Angry? Sad? Why? You might notice you’re getting back at your parents for something. Totally reaching here, but the Oedipal tendency, obv in figurative sense, is strong in mothers. Maybe your mom is afraid you’ll be too successful and is unconsciously threatening to take away her love when you get excited about a project. Idk man just spitballing here.

Reduce your dopamine levels. If your live a monastic life you will find many things to be interesting.

On the other side, a world of distraction and constant stimuli will create a reference level against which it is hard to compete.