Truly amazing how the Raspberry Pi team keeps innovating.
As far as I know, they're not a billion dollar company yet they keep innovating by making better Pi's and continuously upgrading the builder/user experience.
My 2 cents on this device: you are replicating the 1980s "computer in the keyboard". Back then, the issue was the lack of screens, so TV were used instead.
For educational purposes, the same problem exist today: however, kids will not have a space HDMI screen with a micro HDMI cable.
The replacement screen that most people have is different: it's a smartphone, as there are more smartphones than TVs.
So a "notch" or receptacle on top on the keyboard, to secure a smartphone into place, would be helpful: the use case would be powering the 400 from the smartphone AC adapter (kids may not have a spare adapter matching the pi4 power requirements), plugging the phone into the 400 using a USB cable to keep the phone charged, use the phone as the screen - without it falling out and breaking, or hanging by a cable.
Android being finicky, you may not be able to have autodetection/USB gadget mode, but a remote desktop solution would go a long way.
It is not possible at the moment, given the 400 power requirements, but newer/more powerful AC adapters will eventually be more common.
This leaves the notch, which you may want to consider in the next revision
The pleasant surprise is you all make improvements to the hardware and the software that really enhance the experience.
Nowadays, leading billion dollar tech companies often come out with upgrades that highlight being a few microns thinner and camera resolution without really launching actual innovative products or without enhancing the user experience.
...and roughly 1800 times the clock speed.
One millions times the colors that the C64 display[1].
It even comes with User Port (in spirit)[2].
[1]
Yes, the number of colors a home computer could display was a major selling point back then. My C64 only hat 16, my friends CPC had 32, including the rad "Bright White" which enabled stunning effects. Man, I envied that.
[2] Exposed GPIO header is super awesome and quite similar to the C64 User Port. Even more awesome was the Commodore's Expansion Port which basically exposed its bus. It think something like this would not be practically possible with today's GHz clock speeds but still this was super awesome and allowed (and required) you to even dig deeper into the internal workings of your machine.
Yes but it should have probably been a female connector to prevent accidental shorts between pins. One can plug a female connector into it to use as a cap or 3d print a cap anyway.
Yeah but then you'd have to put a father connector (?) in it to connect any existing things that use the whole connector. Better to stick with what is standard for the platform.
I can’t see myself sticking a hat directly into this machine. I think a female header with included male-male GPIO cable would have been nice. It’s not standard but fits within physical layer conventions.
This is really cool. Does it support an Asus Zenscreen USB C portable monitor? I recently started traveling with one as a second screen. Weighs less than a kilo.
Setting it up on my MacBook Pro required the 'DisplayLink Manager' util to be installed, but otherwise it just works and doesn't need a second power source.
I wonder if that would still work with this Raspberry Pi 400.
This is an awesome idea, brings me back to my Sinclair days - grab the computer, plug it into the TV, done. Perfect for kids.
Only one concern: I own one of the keyboards (they also have a US layout) and they’re not bad, but the right cursor key fails to register sometimes. So let’s hope they tweaked the build quality a bit in that regard.
Fantastic. They clearly took into account vast user base not interested in electronics and tinkering and just interested in a cheap PC. SD card with system included which was a hassle for novice users. And they even kept GPIO outside for those like me.
I'm so glad about Raspberry Pi popularity. There are many superior hardware platforms but having one that's really popular massively speeds up prototyping when most modules and sensors have libraries written for it, and you know you are testing them on the same hardware on which they were developed.
I'm intrigued by the "faster, cooler" comment. Anyone know what that refers to? It looks like there aren't any vents on the visible surfaces, so I'm guessing there's been a hardware rev to make thermal throttling less of a problem?
If so, that might imply a pi 4 board release some time soon, which would be nice.
It's a new design of boad (not a Pi4 in a case) and has a large heat spreader inside, and the C0 2711 chip which has better clock gating so blocks can be turned off the save power. This means we can run at 1800 by default. It runs very cool.
The BCM2711 SoC inside is a newer stepping (C0 vs B0 in Pi 4 model B), and can run faster and slightly cooler than the older revision.
Thus the Pi 400 has a 1.8 GHz default clock, while the Pi 4 model B has a 1.5 GHz clock.
Note that I just checked my Compute Module 4, and it also has the C0 revision of the chip... so it's interesting the Pi Foundation chose to keep it at the default 1.5 GHz.
It might have to do with the fact that the Pi 400 has a massive keyboard-sized heatsink attached to the SoC in the unit!
Yeah, so I watched a teardown from one of the sibling comments. Looks like there are vents underneath, but no fan (which would have ruined it for me). Turns out it's got both a huge heat spreader and a newer version of the Broadcom SOC. That's really interesting, because it means they've got the bugs ironed out to be able to do a better pi 4 board which isn't so finicky about its enclosures. And that means I could potentially upgrade the pi 3 that's currently sat in my dusty workshop without caring about fans getting clogged. (yes, I know there are passively-cooled pi 4 cases about. They don't quite do it for me.)
Love it. I first learned BASIC on a keyboard form-factor Atari 800 XL [0], plugged into an old B&W 12" television. I think this device will be much more approachable, and open the Pi/Linux ecosystem to many more users.
This tugs all the heartstrings for me as it mimics the computers of the early 80s. My only criticism is that their use of micro-HDMI makes it very easy for children to wreck the machine. I've had this happen twice to me on RPi4s, and it's not a terribly pleasant experience.
Now all I want from them is a custom edition with the function keys in red, the rest in black, and the body in beige.
[Unpopular opinion] having been spoiled by a working case† of USB-C, I wish there were 6 of those at the back instead of all the different plugs (save for Ethernet and GPIO)...
[Even more unpopular opinion] ... even if they were functionally different and marked explicitly as USB 3 x3, HDMI x2, power x1.
† I hear this is not everyone's case, but I just decided to buy a bunch of USB-C <-> whatever cables and stash the old cables in a drawer. The experience has been refreshing ever since, even emergency charging the laptop over 5W.
I can't understand the reason why this port even was invented. The cables I have seen are few times bigger than the connector itself, so there is a lot of pressure and tension being applied on that tiny port. Only thing I can think of is saving some PCB space, but if they put more effort into arranging components, then I am sure full size port would fit nicely.
Yup, and if you look at Jeff Geerling's teardown photos, there were acres of extra PCB space and they easily could've switched back to regular HDMI for this unit.
It's a senseless design defect in what otherwise looks to be a splendid little unit.
If I end up with one of these, the first thing I'm gonna do is cut a little base-plate to glue it to, which extends behind the unit and has places to secure the HDMI cables (and maybe some other goodies as long as I'm at it), to prevent exactly the torque we all know happens.
I think the Raspberry Pi 4 should have had one standard HDMI port and one micro HDMI port. That would have addressed the majority of users. Only the minority of users that want a second monitor on their RPi would need an adapter or special cable.
If I were doing it I'd use a cleaner background, some background music, add a British voiceover, and do more continuous shots. The cut away from the wire going into the port hurt me :(
it's called glamour - you intentionally don't show everything and let the imagination fill in the gaps. It's a gorgeous advertising technique when done properly and a terribly annoying one when done poorly. I'd argue here it might have come close but obviously not for you.
Glamour is mightily hard. I don't even try it when doing products. Apple's pulled it off a few times.
I was lucky to get a pre-release version to test, and I decided to tear it down before I started trying it out. I posted this blog post with detailed pictures of the insides, and some more details and performance benchmarks: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear...
There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined.
Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.
One comment regarding your "performance comparison" graph. Is the "dd" result read or write? I wondered the same thing with your Compute Module 4 post.
It's write speed; sorry about that, I should probably be more specific! All the benchmarks I'm using are from this Wiki page (http://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/microsd-cards) — though I need to update that page to include some more USB/SATA/NVMe performance benchmarks since I'm now using a lot more drives with the Pi 4 and CM4 (and skipping microSD entirely for most builds).
According to the article, it isn't a problem; the heat sink is big enough to not need a fan. Nice bonus that it's a slightly faster SoC.
I have a Pi 4B with a heat sink and fan that's running BOINC 24x7 (yielding a RAC of about 750-775 on World Community Grid), and with the fan connected to 3.3V it runs at a comfortable 52-54°C with absolutely no throttling. I think I'm going to try overclocking it a bit and see how it handles it.
Just watched a few videos on your channel and love it. Really great stuff.
I love this Pi 400 and think in the new year I will pick one up for my son. We have a Pi 4 that we use a lot and he loves but like you say in your video it is a bit annoying with this little box off the side with a bunch of cables coming out of it.
Not terrible by any means just annoying so I really love the form factor of it all being in the keyboard.
I have thought for a while now they should do this kind of form factor or sell a simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in so I am happy to see they thought about it too. A keyboard is much more practical than a monitor of course so it is a far more sensible choice!
Really hope this sells well and they continue with this kind of form factor in the future. Even a slightly bigger keyboard with a "forehead" (C64 vibes) would be excellent.
You could probably DIY that with an RPi case pretty easy, using the VESA mount holes on the back of the monitor. Most of my monitors have two different size VESA mounts, and my monitor mounts use the smaller size, meaning I have 4 extra screw holes on the back of all my monitors, and conveniently nearly all the VESA mounts take standard M4 bolts.
If your VESA mounts are close enough together, you can just drill holes directly in the RPi case and mount it to the back of the monitor. If they're too far apart, use the mounts to put in a plastic or wood bar, then drill holes through the RPi case and the bar (while not attached to the monitor), then mount the case to the bar and the bar to the monitor.
I've looked at doing similar in the past, but I wanted to make the mounting block along the bottom of the monitor with the SD card exposed. That way I can set up a series of SD cards to test with. Want to test something on Ubuntu 18.04? Cool, switch monitor 2 to input 2 (the RPi) and then swap the SD card out to the Ubuntu 18.04 one and you're ready to rock. It's not as easy as a Docker container, but I'm often using the GPIO pins and I don't have the desire to try to make GPIO pins work in Docker. It might not even be that hard, I just don't feel like adding another step to my troubleshooting.
Of course, that requires that your monitor have VESA mounts. It seems the big brands have segmented the market by making VESA mounts a “premium” feature. Which is ridiculous if I can get a TV with a bigger screen for the same price that comes with VESA built in to any of them.[a]
[a]: Ignoring the obvious differences between a TV-as-a-monitor and an actual monitor
I’d rather have a miniPC-sized Raspberry Pi computer like an Intel NUC or Mac Mini* mounted on the back of a monitor instead of an all-in-one. Monitors have a much longer useful life so all-in-ones (e.g. iMac) eventually become paperweights or e-waste.
If they go the all-in-one route they should include an external HDMI port and a switch to choose between it and the internal Raspberry Pi.
Exactly, this is what the VESA mount on the back of your monitor is for. For an almost no effort solution, you can zip tie a pi to the mount bracket and screw it in (some monitors may even be able to power it via usb). Integrating into the monitor's electronics makes no sense.
If the stand/arm is using the actual VESA mounting holes, there are brackets that can hold a NUC either to the side or sandwiched between the stand/arm and the monitor.
This is pretty much how I had things setup but it isn't ideal as getting to the Pi is a pain and it doesn't work well with any hats so it didn't last long.
My thinking for a Raspberry Pi monitor would be to have the ports in an easier to access location on the rear of the monitor so hats, etc. can be made to a standard design.
Of course the monitor will likely out last the Pi inside it but there is nothing to stop it being used as just a monitor one the Pi instead is no longer useful.
At least superficially it looks like it might be the same basic keyboard as the official Raspberry Pi keyboard that they already had. If so the experience is... not great but not horrible. It's not the worst chiclet keyboard I've used, I'd rate it as adequate. You would not want to use it as your primary keyboard all day, but that's also not what it's intended for.
Actually there were differing qualities of these manufactured. I had one of the early ones and it was fantastic, I could run my fingers touching over the surface and lightly depress while dragging and the audible feedback had such low latency: joy. Sort-of regretted replacing it with mechanical keys. Later Atari 400s had barely registering keypresses that was a workout for your fingers.
Where did you find a replacement mechanical keyboard for the 400? I never found one. I was so envious of the Sinclair owners because they had tons of options.
I think it might have been a local creation. It was ugly as hell, half of it rose above/outside the case showing the switch bodies and entire keycaps. It did have a good feel though. I wasn't much of a touch/speed typist so didn't gain so much. I got it because my father was a bit of a typewriter geek and didn't like me using the membrane keys. Ended up getting an 800 with expansion memory but the keys weren't as good--too springy/spongey no clickiness in it's motion.
The modern Apple "chiclets" seem to be really just low-travel scissor keys. "Real" chiclet keys as seen on the ZX Spectrum or the original PCjr keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5yIg5wmf6I were something else again. (The ZX81 was a separate, earlier computer, with a very different and even worse keyboard.)
When I was around 7 years old, our family was manufacturing ZX81, ZX Spectrum and Enterprise foil-keyboards, because the factory ones were just shit and died within a year or two.
they were all the same design. 3 layers of plastic foil. 1 for horizontal wires, 1 for vertical wires to create a matrix and a 3rd sheet of foil between them with holes, so the horizontal and vertical wires can contact when pressed.
before that, when I was around 6 years old, I remember my father was sticking round aluminum foil stickers on his finger and type directly on a keyboard made out of a PCB with a key matrix.
The keys were the shape of 2 combs facing each other and you had to short them by touching them with the alu stickers on his finger.
It was an AirComp II computer, iirc. I can't find any references to it online now...
It feels plasticky, but not flimsy. I think it uses scissor switches, so it feels better than a standard rubberdome, but it's obviously not going to replace your Model M or Cherry-switch keyboard.
Sauce: I have the keyboard without the computer in it, from when I bought a Pi 4 "starter kit" a year ago.
There's a project that did that but for a different purpose - a network KVM using a Pi4 - https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/
It had to use the one USB-C connector that's used for power for emulating the keyboard and mouse since that's the only one that supported USB-OTG. So you kind of either need PoE or another adapter to both power the device and be able to hae the Pi act as an input device.
Yes, I think Gordon Hollingsworth from Raspberry Pi has posted somewhere specifically how to do it (maybe in the comments on the post on the Pi website?).
>It would be possible to do this, but you’d have to run a simple buildroot SD card which runs a suitable dwc2 OTG HID driver to pretend it is a keyboard…
Otherwise, you can use the Pi 400 as a Barrier server to the other computer… See my other blog post for details!
Nice, it's probably using the USB gadget functionality. That probably means you could modify the image to access a bunch of the ports. Having the ability to turn my Pi Debugging Keyboard into a USB Ethernet adapter would have some advantages.
A build of KeePass that uses the OTG mode for autotype. You plug the Pi 400 into a USB port on your device (whether computer, console, or whatever) and the password file is never on the computer in the first place.
Edit to add:
Might work better with a tablet build of the Pi, though, and you'd probably still want it to sync the file to Dropbox or some other storage place for safety.
That's precisely the idea, yeah. It's entirely possible with the hardware, the software (e.g. KeePass) would need to be modified to send through the gadget mode USB device.
Hey Jeff, I recently bought the RPi Keyboard Hub (Pictured in OP and In parent blog) for its soft keys (Got bone issues), I was pleasantly surprised with the quality. I use Wacom Touch Tablet for trackpad along with a Steel series mouse in its Hub; But I'm worried about saturating the bandwidth as it's just USB 2.0 although I haven't found any conclusive issues.
Have you tested the Keyboard hub's limits? Controller seems to be QinHeng Electronics USB-Serial.
This is slightly disappointing, I was expecting it to be some kind of case for the the Compute Module (or at least for the RPi4. I don't know if it's unrealistic, but it would be nice to have some sort of upgrade or repair possibilities.
I agree, I wish this was the case but it's still a compelling gift for my nieces and nephews and tickles my nostalgia for the era of computing that it mimics.
Just wanted to say that I've been watching your Pi videos on YouTube over the last few months and I really enjoy them. Your video about trying to get a GPU working with a Raspberry Pi was particularly fascinating. Keep up the great work.
> Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.
Reading your article
> the Pi 400 didn't overheat even when I was running it with an overclock to 2.147 GHz, the maximum it allows currently
This only makes me wish they sold an 800 version with 8 GB of RAM, just like the Pi 4.
Edit: It looks like they're affiliate links for monetization, so what I said doesn't apply in this case as they're not the usual tracking crap Amazon et al commonly add to their sharing links.
---
You might want to replace the link to the plexiglass cutter to remove the tracking info (linking everyone who clicks it back to you); here's the smallest you can get it:
Like everywhere else, schools here in India also have gone online. But students here do not have computers. They are taking their classes using parents smartphones. Now you can imagine all the issues that one can face while using this setup. Moreover it's not feasible to sit with a mobile phone for 5-6 hrs of classes.
My father is a teacher and I had this idea to let his students use Raspberry PI with TVs but this is perfect for them.
How usable is it? What desktop runs out of the box and does it lag? Genuinely missing Linux and thinking this would be fun, but only if I can use an up to date distro and it doesn’t hang all the time.
I would buy immediately if it also had a display and a battery to make a laptop (and a cooler so I wouldn't have to worry when I start a long compilation routine on it). Looks great otherwise.
That would probably quadruple the price. Look at PiTop. They used to include batteries and a display, but have moved away from that, as these are the most expensive peripherals.
You can by a cheap display, or use your existing TV. A USB power supply isn't too expensive either.
I have indeed got enough spare displays but I just want to carry my Pi 4 around and use it in public transport and everywhere so a separate display and a web of cables doesn't seem particularly convenient. Perhaps I could buy a PiTop but their current model is not a laptop.
Why quadruple, anyway? I've seen quite a number of ~$200 laptops and found their screens and batteries tolerable (although, obviously, not really good).
It's a matter of scale. $200 laptops are great if you can produce thousands of them and have a market willing to buy them. That's why Chromebooks sell so well. Let's also not forget that Chromebook/Android devices enjoy the subsidy provided by Google's advertising division.
I doubt the Pi 400 with a screen, battery, touchpad and integrated webcam would be able to sell in numbers that would justify the manufacturing and distribution costs.
The display seems to me to be a bigger problem than the battery. Small, 3 Amp capable USB batteries are common and cheap ($10-$20 on Amazon). Displays are expensive (and need their own power source), but people can at least use TVs like they did with those 1980s PCs.
I sort of suspect that if this is really successful, they might come out with a laptop version. That'd be nice.
I've got a RPI with RetroPi, it... sorta works, but the cheap controllers aren't very good, and there's a noticeable input lag in games like Mario Bros. N64 games don't get a decent framerate. Mind you this is with an RPI 2 or 3 so not the best hardware either.
I got a refurbished N64 as well, works as intended.
"Very old" means different things to different people. If you want to run the sorts of games that used to run on "keyboard plugged into the TV" computers, think Z80, not VR4300.
After combining two broken Amiga 500s into one single working one, I had an Amiga case and an Amiga keyboard left over. The nice thing about the Amiga keyboard is that it is pretty much a serial device, so it wasn't hard to set up an Arduino Pro Micro to act as a keyboard-to-usb adapter.
Then I put in a Raspberry Pi with a Retropie SD card, two gamepads, a mouse, and that's all.
I didn't put a lot of effort into making it look nice, so it's basically just a bunch of cables coming out the back of the Amiga, but at first glance it's still an ordinary Amiga.
Works pretty well overall for Amiga, C64, Spectrum, Atari, and DOS games. Of course boot time is not great, and add to that the time spent navigating Retropie's menu system, it's all a bit of a hassle. It does work better than my actual Amiga for "productivity" applications because I can set it up with more memory and better networking options.
I’m putting one together soon. The retrotink ultimate stopped being made last year, which is very sad. The community hasn’t picked up the source yet. It’s a matter of time though. I’m going with a PI2SCART for video output. I would use this Raspi 400, but the GPIO location is not well suited for hats.
I’m going this route because I also want the flexibility to have a computer on my CRTs. If you want pure gaming, then look into MiSTer FPGA.
First impression: yes, this looks beautiful, reminiscent of the microcomputer revolution, and of course I wish I could get one.
What would I change?
It's a pity that the keyboard is connected using a flip-up ribbon, rather than internal USB. Although I can see why the target market (education) just prefers an all-in-one computer, this also means that the RPi 400 can't be used as a keyboard for other computers. Therefore I'll still need to carry a keyboard around.
There will be software options for virtual USB host (e.g. shameless plugs for the EspUSB which uses WiFi, or KeyMouSerial which uses serial) but in practice, those wouldn't be as easy for most hackers. There's also no F12 key, which is needed for system configuration on some distros.
The two Micro-HDMI ports are quite small and close together (especially when using a 3-way micro-mini-full size HDMI adaptor).
Like Apple, there's no headphone jack. Also no built-in SD reader, so I'd still need to carry a USB card reader (unlike my laptop, which can go directly from camera SD cards to HDMI on a projector).
Final nitpick: if this keyboard is intended for young people, their hands are smaller, so full-size keys are actually less comfortable. (believe it or not, I've even seen keyboards intended for children that have extra-large keys). A design with smaller keys that could fit in my large pocket (e.g. TI-84 sized device) would be preferable.
What the RPi Foundation has done is an excellent feat of engineering, and they should and will be rewarded by the market for their innovation. It's a great product. I just still see some room for future improvements.
I believe the USB-C power port can be used for USB-2 gadget mode, so you could in theory configure the Pi 400 to act as a keyboard for another computer :-)
If one of the usb port allow OTG someone can hack a driver to turn the 400 into a keyboard (albeit a very bloated one as it would be running a full OS!).
My concern is that almost anything that fits in a C64 will run out of the L1 cache in most modern CPUs and yield very unrealistic results compared to reasonable modern workloads.
I think that's a valid result in its own way, though. It's not the poor C64's fault that we insist on chewing through megabytes and gigabytes just to run a chat app.
Every benchmark means something. The problem is you make a benchmark to measure the thing you are curious about. If that then indicates a result that makes something you like look bad, then you feel it is an unfair benchmark. Or if you were curious about some other kind of performance, then it is a bad benchmark.
Every benchmark is meaningless or unfair to somebody.
That would mean performence more then doubled on a yearly basis.
How do you figure? They were released 30+ years apart. 2^30 would be a billion times faster. Instead it's something under 19 doublings, nowhere close to doubling every year for 37 years.
There are a lot of different ways to state it (often including constraints like price), in part because it's not really a 'law'. But the main thing is, 500k times performance does not represent 'more than doubling' performance on a yearly basis as this comment claims.
Why isn't it just a CM plugged into the bottom of the keyboard circuit board for upgradability... it doesn't bode well that Rasberry Pi's own products aren't using the weird connecter the CM has.
I've seen a lot of devices like the CM that use a random connector and for some reason they never actually name the connector and its MPN. Alchitry and Parallela have "weird" connectors as well and it was always a pain in the ass to figure out which connector they've been using.
I agree with you though. RPi appeals to people with a wide range of skills. There are lots of programmers who want to use Pi to get more electronics knowledge, and RPi foundation could make that a bit easier for those people.
(EDIT: I don't understand why parent has been downvoted. A lot of similar devices do use newer more specialised connectors and it can be hard to work out who makes and supplies the connectors.)
However US pricing is normally exclusive of tax whereas the U.K. price is inclusive of 20% VAT. 54*1.2 is around £65 so not that far off the £67 price.
I did not know that. So when ordering stuff in the US, the tax is added at the checkout stage? Is it because of state tax laws being different or something?
I guess that's part of it, although in this day and age it's trivial to equip each branch with a laser printer and program which adds the local sales tax.
However, there's a simpler reason: for psychological reasons no retailer is going to voluntarily put higher prices on their shelves than they have to, and since unlike most other countries there is no consumer protection law requiring the the actual checkout price including sales tax to be displayed, they don't.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 367 ms ] threadAs far as I know, they're not a billion dollar company yet they keep innovating by making better Pi's and continuously upgrading the builder/user experience.
Congratulations to Upton and team!
That the hardware and software engineers at Raspberry Pi Trading can keep innovating and producing such amazing products, astounds me.
For educational purposes, the same problem exist today: however, kids will not have a space HDMI screen with a micro HDMI cable.
The replacement screen that most people have is different: it's a smartphone, as there are more smartphones than TVs.
So a "notch" or receptacle on top on the keyboard, to secure a smartphone into place, would be helpful: the use case would be powering the 400 from the smartphone AC adapter (kids may not have a spare adapter matching the pi4 power requirements), plugging the phone into the 400 using a USB cable to keep the phone charged, use the phone as the screen - without it falling out and breaking, or hanging by a cable.
Android being finicky, you may not be able to have autodetection/USB gadget mode, but a remote desktop solution would go a long way.
It is not possible at the moment, given the 400 power requirements, but newer/more powerful AC adapters will eventually be more common.
This leaves the notch, which you may want to consider in the next revision
Nowadays, leading billion dollar tech companies often come out with upgrades that highlight being a few microns thinner and camera resolution without really launching actual innovative products or without enhancing the user experience.
Thank you.
...and roughly 1800 times the clock speed. One millions times the colors that the C64 display[1]. It even comes with User Port (in spirit)[2].
[1] Yes, the number of colors a home computer could display was a major selling point back then. My C64 only hat 16, my friends CPC had 32, including the rad "Bright White" which enabled stunning effects. Man, I envied that.
[2] Exposed GPIO header is super awesome and quite similar to the C64 User Port. Even more awesome was the Commodore's Expansion Port which basically exposed its bus. It think something like this would not be practically possible with today's GHz clock speeds but still this was super awesome and allowed (and required) you to even dig deeper into the internal workings of your machine.
Yes but it should have probably been a female connector to prevent accidental shorts between pins. One can plug a female connector into it to use as a cap or 3d print a cap anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ZenScreen-MB16AC-Portable-Monito...
Setting it up on my MacBook Pro required the 'DisplayLink Manager' util to be installed, but otherwise it just works and doesn't need a second power source.
I wonder if that would still work with this Raspberry Pi 400.
That said, what are some affordable / basic screens for a RPI?
Only one concern: I own one of the keyboards (they also have a US layout) and they’re not bad, but the right cursor key fails to register sometimes. So let’s hope they tweaked the build quality a bit in that regard.
I'm so glad about Raspberry Pi popularity. There are many superior hardware platforms but having one that's really popular massively speeds up prototyping when most modules and sensors have libraries written for it, and you know you are testing them on the same hardware on which they were developed.
If so, that might imply a pi 4 board release some time soon, which would be nice.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1752436#p...
Thus the Pi 400 has a 1.8 GHz default clock, while the Pi 4 model B has a 1.5 GHz clock.
Note that I just checked my Compute Module 4, and it also has the C0 revision of the chip... so it's interesting the Pi Foundation chose to keep it at the default 1.5 GHz.
It might have to do with the fact that the Pi 400 has a massive keyboard-sized heatsink attached to the SoC in the unit!
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_8-bit_family#Newer_XL_ma...
Now all I want from them is a custom edition with the function keys in red, the rest in black, and the body in beige.
[Even more unpopular opinion] ... even if they were functionally different and marked explicitly as USB 3 x3, HDMI x2, power x1.
† I hear this is not everyone's case, but I just decided to buy a bunch of USB-C <-> whatever cables and stash the old cables in a drawer. The experience has been refreshing ever since, even emergency charging the laptop over 5W.
references:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro#/media/File:BBC_Micr...
or an actual ARM model:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#/media/File:A...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Acorn_RISC_Ma...
BBC Micro Bot - 1000 Tweets of Code https://www.bbcmicrobot.com/ "BBC Micro bot runs your tweet on an 8-bit computer emulator."
It's a senseless design defect in what otherwise looks to be a splendid little unit.
If I end up with one of these, the first thing I'm gonna do is cut a little base-plate to glue it to, which extends behind the unit and has places to secure the HDMI cables (and maybe some other goodies as long as I'm at it), to prevent exactly the torque we all know happens.
That video ad is Steve Jobs-level excellence.
Glamour is mightily hard. I don't even try it when doing products. Apple's pulled it off a few times.
There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined.
Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.
I have a Pi 4B with a heat sink and fan that's running BOINC 24x7 (yielding a RAC of about 750-775 on World Community Grid), and with the fan connected to 3.3V it runs at a comfortable 52-54°C with absolutely no throttling. I think I'm going to try overclocking it a bit and see how it handles it.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-p...
I love this Pi 400 and think in the new year I will pick one up for my son. We have a Pi 4 that we use a lot and he loves but like you say in your video it is a bit annoying with this little box off the side with a bunch of cables coming out of it.
Not terrible by any means just annoying so I really love the form factor of it all being in the keyboard.
I have thought for a while now they should do this kind of form factor or sell a simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in so I am happy to see they thought about it too. A keyboard is much more practical than a monitor of course so it is a far more sensible choice!
Really hope this sells well and they continue with this kind of form factor in the future. Even a slightly bigger keyboard with a "forehead" (C64 vibes) would be excellent.
Oh, I'd definitely be up for that!!
If your VESA mounts are close enough together, you can just drill holes directly in the RPi case and mount it to the back of the monitor. If they're too far apart, use the mounts to put in a plastic or wood bar, then drill holes through the RPi case and the bar (while not attached to the monitor), then mount the case to the bar and the bar to the monitor.
I've looked at doing similar in the past, but I wanted to make the mounting block along the bottom of the monitor with the SD card exposed. That way I can set up a series of SD cards to test with. Want to test something on Ubuntu 18.04? Cool, switch monitor 2 to input 2 (the RPi) and then swap the SD card out to the Ubuntu 18.04 one and you're ready to rock. It's not as easy as a Docker container, but I'm often using the GPIO pins and I don't have the desire to try to make GPIO pins work in Docker. It might not even be that hard, I just don't feel like adding another step to my troubleshooting.
[a]: Ignoring the obvious differences between a TV-as-a-monitor and an actual monitor
If they go the all-in-one route they should include an external HDMI port and a switch to choose between it and the internal Raspberry Pi.
*: But upgradeable and repairable.
Them's fighting words to a NEC C651Q owner.
My thinking for a Raspberry Pi monitor would be to have the ports in an easier to access location on the rear of the monitor so hats, etc. can be made to a standard design.
Of course the monitor will likely out last the Pi inside it but there is nothing to stop it being used as just a monitor one the Pi instead is no longer useful.
also fyi the pi-top project has a DIY 'all in one' for the PI:
https://www.pi-top.com/products/pi-top-ceed
and a DIY laptop:
https://www.pi-top.com/products/pi-top-3
only claim pi-3 compatibility at the moment, not sure if it would still work with 4, probably need some adapters or so
(maybe other projects like this, not sure)
(side note, I love the ansible roles you've made, especially AWX, saved me a bunch of time back in 2018)
I can type fine on it, though I still prefer an Apple Magic Keyboard (latest version) for daily typing since the body of it is slightly more solid.
I'm not a mechanical keyboard fan, though I know many would like that kind of keyboard here, and it would be more fitting for the nostalgia!
Gen-x who remember the TRS80 MC10 and its keyboard remember chiclet keyboards as not much better than membrane keyboards (Consider the ZX81 Spectrum)
But decades later Apple started shipping chiclet-appearing keyboards that actually worked, so the style has been somewhat revitalized.
That said, yeah they could be shipping a 1980s quality chiclet keyboard or a 2020s quality chiclet keyboard, so that's worrisome.
"Gen-x first computers" sounds like an interesting site
But at least it was waterproof! Thank goodness they saw the light and used a proper keyboard on the 800.
Where did you find a replacement mechanical keyboard for the 400? I never found one. I was so envious of the Sinclair owners because they had tons of options.
they were all the same design. 3 layers of plastic foil. 1 for horizontal wires, 1 for vertical wires to create a matrix and a 3rd sheet of foil between them with holes, so the horizontal and vertical wires can contact when pressed.
before that, when I was around 6 years old, I remember my father was sticking round aluminum foil stickers on his finger and type directly on a keyboard made out of a PCB with a key matrix.
The keys were the shape of 2 combs facing each other and you had to short them by touching them with the alu stickers on his finger.
It was an AirComp II computer, iirc. I can't find any references to it online now...
Sony was already using that style of keyboard at the time, so although Apple contributed to the momentum, they didn't start the trend.
Sauce: I have the keyboard without the computer in it, from when I bought a Pi 4 "starter kit" a year ago.
It had to use the one USB-C connector that's used for power for emulating the keyboard and mouse since that's the only one that supported USB-OTG. So you kind of either need PoE or another adapter to both power the device and be able to hae the Pi act as an input device.
>It would be possible to do this, but you’d have to run a simple buildroot SD card which runs a suitable dwc2 OTG HID driver to pretend it is a keyboard…
Otherwise, you can use the Pi 400 as a Barrier server to the other computer… See my other blog post for details!
Gordon
A build of KeePass that uses the OTG mode for autotype. You plug the Pi 400 into a USB port on your device (whether computer, console, or whatever) and the password file is never on the computer in the first place.
Edit to add:
Might work better with a tablet build of the Pi, though, and you'd probably still want it to sync the file to Dropbox or some other storage place for safety.
Have you tested the Keyboard hub's limits? Controller seems to be QinHeng Electronics USB-Serial.
Reading your article
> the Pi 400 didn't overheat even when I was running it with an overclock to 2.147 GHz, the maximum it allows currently
This only makes me wish they sold an 800 version with 8 GB of RAM, just like the Pi 4.
(Folklore says the original product plan had the Atari 400 come with 4K of RAM, and the 800 8K... and then memory got cheaper by release.)
---
You might want to replace the link to the plexiglass cutter to remove the tracking info (linking everyone who clicks it back to you); here's the smallest you can get it:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZZ1D0
The same goes for your SD card links.
My father is a teacher and I had this idea to let his students use Raspberry PI with TVs but this is perfect for them.
The logitech keyboards w/ the touchpad built in suck.
This just looks adorable.
I doubt the Pi 400 with a screen, battery, touchpad and integrated webcam would be able to sell in numbers that would justify the manufacturing and distribution costs.
I sort of suspect that if this is really successful, they might come out with a laptop version. That'd be nice.
I got a refurbished N64 as well, works as intended.
Then I put in a Raspberry Pi with a Retropie SD card, two gamepads, a mouse, and that's all.
I didn't put a lot of effort into making it look nice, so it's basically just a bunch of cables coming out the back of the Amiga, but at first glance it's still an ordinary Amiga.
Works pretty well overall for Amiga, C64, Spectrum, Atari, and DOS games. Of course boot time is not great, and add to that the time spent navigating Retropie's menu system, it's all a bit of a hassle. It does work better than my actual Amiga for "productivity" applications because I can set it up with more memory and better networking options.
I’m going this route because I also want the flexibility to have a computer on my CRTs. If you want pure gaming, then look into MiSTer FPGA.
I like retro computing and while the RPi can do that, doing it in hardware is even better.
However, now that it's released, maybe it can be disassembled and reconnected for that one, if it fits...
What would I change?
It's a pity that the keyboard is connected using a flip-up ribbon, rather than internal USB. Although I can see why the target market (education) just prefers an all-in-one computer, this also means that the RPi 400 can't be used as a keyboard for other computers. Therefore I'll still need to carry a keyboard around.
There will be software options for virtual USB host (e.g. shameless plugs for the EspUSB which uses WiFi, or KeyMouSerial which uses serial) but in practice, those wouldn't be as easy for most hackers. There's also no F12 key, which is needed for system configuration on some distros.
The two Micro-HDMI ports are quite small and close together (especially when using a 3-way micro-mini-full size HDMI adaptor).
Like Apple, there's no headphone jack. Also no built-in SD reader, so I'd still need to carry a USB card reader (unlike my laptop, which can go directly from camera SD cards to HDMI on a projector).
Final nitpick: if this keyboard is intended for young people, their hands are smaller, so full-size keys are actually less comfortable. (believe it or not, I've even seen keyboards intended for children that have extra-large keys). A design with smaller keys that could fit in my large pocket (e.g. TI-84 sized device) would be preferable.
What the RPi Foundation has done is an excellent feat of engineering, and they should and will be rewarded by the market for their innovation. It's a great product. I just still see some room for future improvements.
Wouldn't it be fun to ship cartridge games again?
[1] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2020-11-02-20-0...
Unfortunately, your "reference" is just the same numbers you posted but as an image. I don't know if this counts as a "reference" :)
Any links to who performed those benchmarks?
http://hoult.org/primes.txt
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Every benchmark is meaningless or unfair to somebody.
How do you figure? They were released 30+ years apart. 2^30 would be a billion times faster. Instead it's something under 19 doublings, nowhere close to doubling every year for 37 years.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=37+%2F+log+base+2+%284...
You can buy the connector here: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1362374/?grossPrice=...
I agree with you though. RPi appeals to people with a wide range of skills. There are lots of programmers who want to use Pi to get more electronics knowledge, and RPi foundation could make that a bit easier for those people.
(EDIT: I don't understand why parent has been downvoted. A lot of similar devices do use newer more specialised connectors and it can be hard to work out who makes and supplies the connectors.)
I did a double take as well, and had to look it up.
However, there's a simpler reason: for psychological reasons no retailer is going to voluntarily put higher prices on their shelves than they have to, and since unlike most other countries there is no consumer protection law requiring the the actual checkout price including sales tax to be displayed, they don't.
Where did you find that price? On the official purchase page[1] the lowest price is 97 EUR (which is around $113)
[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/?resel...
https://keyshorts.com/blogs/blog/37615873-how-to-identify-ma...