On a tangential note, wonder how much emphasis Apple will put on the TV+. I doubt it’s popular and whether people actually want to sign up for it. Are there numbers out there for the subscribers for it? How many are paying customers and choose to stay on after the free period is over?
One of their shows, Ted Lasso, just won some awards I think.
I honestly signed up to see it, and we've stayed with it because of how good that show really was. I'm not a soccer or football fan, but it is a compelling story about humanity.
If it's anything like News+, of which I've worked closely with teams (and former VP went on to work in curation of their Canadian content), they're quite dedicated in spite of the criticisms surrounding payout.
That's as deep as my knowledge goes, but on the production side no email goes unanswered if that's any cue. I can't say the same for some major software companies operating in their explicitly-stated domain that I've had to work with.
Ted Lasso is great. I am a football fan and I was initially attracted to the show for being a comedy about football. After watching it though, I agree that it's a lot less about football and a lot more about humanity. I hope Season 2 comes out soon!
For All Mankind is another great show! A very interesting take on an alternative space race history. Compelling narrative, deep characters, great ambiance. One of the best sci-fi shows of late.
"Mythic Quest"[0] is also a great show that I'm sure many people on HN would enjoy on an extra level, since it deals with gaming and making games and they don't hesitate to make fun of their unsaid partnership with Ubisoft Montreal.
For reference, it's got a mix of production and cast from Community and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and their pandemic episode is currently the highest rated for the show because they don't shy away from some of the more real moments amidst the joyous insanity of the show.
I'm guessing Apple TV+ is in the current state that Netflix & Amazon Prime were in a few years back: make good content, dare to do things, and make a name for yourself. Good for us, I'd say.
Wasn't one of the criticisms of TV+ that Apple is too conservative when it comes to taking creative risks and targeting more niche, adult audiences? For example, do you think Apple would have green lit IASIP as an orginal show?
You need to know almost nothing about soccer to enjoy the show. I mean, I sure don’t. There is almost no action on the pitch—it is very much a workplace comedy, and not an in-the-weeds sports show.
For sure. And when there is action on the pitch you're already invested in the characters so it matters to you whether or not you follow the sport itself.
Good question. Just got an offer to sign up for a free year, after buying and activating a new iPhone. Unlikely to take them up on it, since it won't work with my existing Chromecast attached to my not-so-smart TV. I'm not interested in buying another device just to be able to stream Apple TV+. Likely many people are in a similar situation.
I got the free year and then got hooked on Ted Lasso and For All Mankind, both of which would fit into the upper tier of Netflix’s programming. Some of their nature shows are also great. TV plus, News, Fitness, and Arcade ended up being an extra $7 CAD when part of the Apple One bundle on top of what I was already paying for iCloud storage and Apple Music on the family plans.
The bundle strategy is an old one, and it works especially well in family plans where one person might be a big user of one service and a minor user of another. It’s also a good fit given the regular practice of adults passing their old phones on to kids or vice versa.
That would be a new device to buy, since I'm using the original Chromecast. But I see your point about the upside of this bundling strategy, it just wasn't enough to win me over.
They started in a strange position -- no back catalog. So they'll have to build that out over time. I'd expect it becomes a better proposition eventually.
That being said, Ted Lasso, Mythic Quest, Home, For All Mankind, Greyhound, WolfWalkers, and The Elephant Queen have all been some of the best shows I've watched in the last 18 months. They certainly don't have quantity, but I've been pretty happy with the quality.
Greyhound was such a disappointment for me (a huge Das Boot fan, submarine sim player). The subs in the movie acted like a bunch of horny teenagers in a girls' dormitory, surfacing at the stupidest moments, firing at everything that moves, taking a fucking destroyer head-on for some reason. Stopped taking the movie seriously halfway through, skipped through the second half for some cool shots that didn't look violently CGI. If it wasn't for Tom Hanks, it would've been a 35 % movie.
Don't forget, it's also part of Apple's subscription bundles.
But I actually think it's pretty good. I haven't enjoyed every show, but I feel as though all the content being produced is aimed at being higher-quality. Compared to Netflix where they're making shows like "Nailed it!".... Personally I just want interesting, high-quality content.
I'm a big fan of the Long Way series, and it was cool to see them pick up the first two and make a new one.
I got it free for a year when I got a new iPhone - took me a while to get into it but started watching "For All Mankind" recently and really enjoying it.
Edit: I've only watched about 5 episodes on Season 1 but one small thing that is pretty neat if it is intentional (and I haven't made a mistake) is the more rapid development of technology in their timeline due to money being spent at NASA rather than keeping the Vietnam War going.
Edit2: For someone in their 50s like me, "For All Mankind" is basically wish fulfilment for the future we had in the past.
The first two were so much better. Focused on the trip, and the experience. You learned so much about these extremely remote places and cultures... The third one just turned into "Long Way To The Next Charger." I didn't like any of the focus being on the crew with the Rivians. They spent so much time focused on building that bus, and then all they did was sleep in it for one night? That really ruined the whole motorcycle trip. Nothing like throwing tons of money at a problem to solve it.
There are about 5 shows that are Apple TV+ and that’s all you get for the subscription. Anything else you must pay extra, which I can already do with YouTube or Amazon or many other services. I don’t really see what is the market they are trying to fit in with that.
I’m subscribed for the free year and I don’t ever think of opening it.
No idea but probably not. I'm not saying Malala was deliberately chasing a payday or anything. More that it's a shame that public media can't put together a show like this so it ends up with the world's biggest corporation. Not anyone's fault in particular, just an unfortunate state of affairs.
It's tough to say what the new Apple TV+ programming with Malala is going to actually be like, but programming coming from one person's production company and relying on that one person's persona is quite possibly not a great fit for public media.
On the other hand, it's quite possible some of the content will end up being licensed to play on PBS or something. Right now it's anyone's guess.
Public media isn't necessarily state-sponsored. American public media only gets the occasional grant from the CPB which is a private non-profit that gets money from Congress. Most of it is funded by donations.
For a subscription streaming service you need prestige shows to get people to subscribe, the type of content people think they want to watch, then once they are subscribed you need a portfolio of junk food TV which is what they actually will watch to keep them hooked.
“In all things I yearn for the past. Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased. I find that even among the splendid pieces of furniture built by our master cabinetmakers, those in the old forms are the most pleasing.”
Tsurezuregusa (Essays in Idleness), Yoshida Kenkō
1330 - 1332 AD
Congrats on joining the long, proud, ancient history of saying society is going to hell.
—
But as to contemporary TV: it ain’t junk. You want to see junk? Go back to the 1970s. Three’s Company? The Love Boat? The Brady Bunch? Any of the awful cheesey variety shows? Modern TV is vastly, hugely better than what it used to be, in terms of acting, cinematography, and music. And I’d argue more intellectually challenging—so many of the hit shows have long, ongoing arcs, instead of standalone episodes, that require viewers to get invested and understand the plot threads. Takes a lot more brainpower to keep track of what’s going on in Watchmen than The Dukes of Hazzard.
70+% of military age population in US is ineligible for service due to weight, education, substance abuse[1].
But we’re not the only ones. Educational shows are better. Very much better, but the entertainment is still escapism, whether they have Shatner or Olivier.
That said, entertainment and thinking don’t mix —which is why we have laugh tracks. Instead the programming is thinking for you. That’s perhaps worse than anodyne programming.
Well, sometimes I like to watch a mindless show. I think it's okay to binge watch every now and then. What is wrong with a little escapism? After spending my whole day learning and implementing new things, my brain needs a break, my body needs a break. Obviously, if you're spending more time binge watching, and not showering or eating, you might have a problem. But as with everything, moderation is key.
Oh i agree with you there. The problem isn’t people who measure themselves but those for varied reasons cannot cut back on things that consumed without restriction have negative effects on people. Things like drink, food, entertainment, sex, social network/internet, etc.
And it’s not like everyone in the past was some gentleman philosopher. Is Survivor pablum? Arguably. But I would certainly say it’s more edifying than…
Working for a nonprofit or being a vegetarian isn’t virtue signaling. Dropping either in a conversation where it wasn’t related to the topic is. Constantly broadcasting as well. Putting “Crunchy mom” in your email signature is as well although that’s been around a while so not likely to be noticed.
“Virtue signaling” means “I’m doing this thing to get people to like me while I actually don’t care about said thing.”
What I’ve heard is: companies are being branded as having virtue signaled because, for example, prior to the BLM protests (and riots), many were quiet about the issues of police violence, but then suddenly became “woke” and put out black squares on IG and other places.
It obviously isn’t a valid label on Apple because they’ve always been progressive (at least since Tim Cook).
However, you are right: virtue signaling is a common label for “they’re doing something I don’t agree with. Obviously it’s because they’re virtue signaling.”
God I am stupid. I read the headline and thought there was a programming, as in coding, partnership with Malala Yousafzai. Like, since when did Malala Yousafzai start coding?
Apple is probably the worst FAANG for good content production. They seem only to invest in very well known artists which in turn produce entirely milquetoast content (Greyhound, For All Mankind, etc.). Good art pushes boundaries; crappy art is derivative.
I saw an ad for a facebook tv show on the subway once and was surprised because i've never heard anyone talk about them anywhere. Looks like "Facebook Watch" came out in 2017.
Firstly, everyone thinks AppleTV is an Apple-branded TV. I have had to explain to people how it’s an Apple Roku.
Then adding the + to designate their content offering instead of an enhanced AppleTV was equally terrible. I have no idea how they came to such a terrible decision.
Thirdly, the content is beyond terrible. I don’t know what they were thinking, but they spent so much time marketing AppleTV+ but they refused to spend money to acquire things that people want to watch.
It’s deeply akin to their strategy on spending money on marketing hype but being deeply superficial on quality of content. They are the worlds richest company but their software is extremely poor. They can afford to pay for the best software engineers, and they don’t. Their software is terrible.
The same goes with their TV shows. I watched The Morning Show which was okay but I haven’t turned it on since. There is nothing compelling to watch on AppleTV+. And Apple has all the money to buy content and they do a really bad job. They need to overspend on a hallmark show to get the traction they need.
You haven’t really given AppleTV+ a fair shake. There are some great shows and movies on the service. Ted Lasso, Dickenson, Wolfwalkers, etc. It’s on the low price side of streaming services and a free year is included with many product purchases. I wouldn’t call that a failure by a long-shot.
I disagree strongly that their software is terrible. My iPhone is bombproof, and I strongly believe that part of their success has been in making these phones easy to use, every time. My parents and people like them don't have time for bugs or quirks - they will take reliability and ease of use over hackability and the latest features every single time.
Apple TV+ is not the best streaming service, but it does have a decent value proposition, especially as part of a bundle of Apple services.
It has enough quality shows and movies to warrant a couple of months of subscription. I think it will slowly become successful despite the nay-saying, just like a lot of things Apple makes.
What constitutes a “failure”? Netflix is as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle, Hulu can’t make a UI to save their lives and may as well be a reality TV/game show app with how little the big three networks put out anymore, and Disney+ lacks adult programming outside of Marvel (and that’s being generous). Apple TV+ is what you go to see at your local art house theatre. It’s different, it’s original, and it has amazing production values—-all at a decent price. Just because it’s not your cup of tea doesn’t make it a “failure on so many levels”.
The show with Jason Mamoa was unwatchable, pun intended.
I also watched all the kids content which was either boring or bad. I had high hopes for the Charlie Brown content but my kid who loves space was pretty bored by their show on Snoopy going into Space.
Netflix has can’t-miss comedians like Dave Chappelle and all their specials. They have excellent kids shows like Dragon Prince and a ton of Captain Underpants offerings. HBO Max had new movies coming direct to streaming. Amazon Prime has a bunch of movies for free and it has The Boys. I think their kids shows are decent. Disney+ had all the MCU content including the new shows.
AppleTV+ had none of the above. They may have one-off shows that aren’t horrible but it’s not enough to sustain a subscription. I haven’t heard any buzz about them from my social network because absolutely no one uses AppleTV+. I’m the only one I know that even gave some of the content a shot. I would say that’s a complete failure for a trillion dollar company.
I think discoverability is also a problem: the ‘channel’ is a confusing space to navigate. Unless I’m doing something fundamentally wrong, each time I’ve followed any sort of notification about new content, I’ve ended up in a space that includes promotions for Netflix and some Swedish channels we watch, and also some premium paid content that doesn’t seem to be part of the free subscription I received when I bought an iPad Pro last year. I honestly don’t know what there is for me to watch.
Now I’m curious about the couple of shows people are mentioning in this thread, as I genuinely haven’t watched a single show in the last 9 or 10 months. Not only has the content (when I think I’ve found it) seemed to be mostly aimed at a 35-45 year old American market, the shows all feel so ‘earnest’ and frankly boring. Bit worried that this content may fall into the same trap: TV you feel you ought to watch, rather than have fun watching.
Look forward to being proved wrong, but now only have a couple months before I intend to cancel.
Malala is an example of an activist who offers (and, often, implements) actual solutions rather than engaging in essentially useless “how dare you?” grandstanding. My intent is not to pick on other activists gratuitously, but to point out what works and what doesn’t.
Does she really though? I am always so conflicted because coming from a Third World country I know thousands of girls who were in her shoes and who didn't have their stories told simply because they weren't as privileged as she was. People in the West tend to romanticize things and project their "saving grace" obsession onto issues elsewhere whereas in fact the situation is much grimmer than they think it is.
The Noble Peace prize is one example of these things, for instance back in 2014, the award went to the "The National Dialogue Quartet" in my country, it made it seem as if they saved the entire country from a looming doom whereas in reality they had very little effect and the entire thing was a circlejerk of sorts.
They insist on the "Nobel laureate" but don't specify which nobel prize she received. In case you're wondering (from wikipedia):
> In 2014, she was the co-recipient of the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Kailash Satyarthi of India. Aged 17 at the time, she was the youngest-ever Nobel Prize laureate.
"The content is not the same, but in both cases Americans are inhabiting a world in which one of the cushiest rewards for doing politics is to get into content creation, whatever form it takes."
The reward systems and algos underlying Content are constantly changing and evolving, as their flaws/costs at scale get tallied up. So what politicians get propped up by these systems will change too.
Part of the problem with Apple TV+ is that it isn't available in many places. For reasons that are unclear to me, there isn't an app for either Samsung or LG (unless it's a 2019 or later model TV).
So many non tech people aren't even aware that there is a service.
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[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 67.4 ms ] threadI honestly signed up to see it, and we've stayed with it because of how good that show really was. I'm not a soccer or football fan, but it is a compelling story about humanity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Lasso
If it's anything like News+, of which I've worked closely with teams (and former VP went on to work in curation of their Canadian content), they're quite dedicated in spite of the criticisms surrounding payout.
That's as deep as my knowledge goes, but on the production side no email goes unanswered if that's any cue. I can't say the same for some major software companies operating in their explicitly-stated domain that I've had to work with.
For All Mankind is another great show! A very interesting take on an alternative space race history. Compelling narrative, deep characters, great ambiance. One of the best sci-fi shows of late.
For reference, it's got a mix of production and cast from Community and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and their pandemic episode is currently the highest rated for the show because they don't shy away from some of the more real moments amidst the joyous insanity of the show.
I'm guessing Apple TV+ is in the current state that Netflix & Amazon Prime were in a few years back: make good content, dare to do things, and make a name for yourself. Good for us, I'd say.
[0] https://www.justwatch.com/ca/tv-show/mythic-quest-ravens-ban...
See is... quite adult and without spoilers there are a couple of scenes that I was not expecting given that early criticism.
Also I highly recommend See, it is a weird concept but works pretty well.
You need to know almost nothing about soccer to enjoy the show. I mean, I sure don’t. There is almost no action on the pitch—it is very much a workplace comedy, and not an in-the-weeds sports show.
The bundle strategy is an old one, and it works especially well in family plans where one person might be a big user of one service and a minor user of another. It’s also a good fit given the regular practice of adults passing their old phones on to kids or vice versa.
Anyway, Apple TV is actually on chromecast now.
https://www.whathifi.com/news/the-apple-tv-app-is-now-availa...
That being said, Ted Lasso, Mythic Quest, Home, For All Mankind, Greyhound, WolfWalkers, and The Elephant Queen have all been some of the best shows I've watched in the last 18 months. They certainly don't have quantity, but I've been pretty happy with the quality.
But I actually think it's pretty good. I haven't enjoyed every show, but I feel as though all the content being produced is aimed at being higher-quality. Compared to Netflix where they're making shows like "Nailed it!".... Personally I just want interesting, high-quality content.
I'm a big fan of the Long Way series, and it was cool to see them pick up the first two and make a new one.
I can't wait for Foundation!
Edit: I've only watched about 5 episodes on Season 1 but one small thing that is pretty neat if it is intentional (and I haven't made a mistake) is the more rapid development of technology in their timeline due to money being spent at NASA rather than keeping the Vietnam War going.
Edit2: For someone in their 50s like me, "For All Mankind" is basically wish fulfilment for the future we had in the past.
The latest one I still enjoyed, but definitely didn't find it to be as good from a story/cultural standpoint.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7772588/
On the other hand, it's quite possible some of the content will end up being licensed to play on PBS or something. Right now it's anyone's guess.
Why do you think a state-sponsored broadcaster would have been equally likely to pick up this content?
Self-interested companies don’t have geopolitical concerns.
Kinda wondering how this actually works.
Junk food + Junk entertainment doesn’t add up to a productive society.
It seems like advanced economies, on average, are suffering from obesity as well as decline in brainpower.
Even China can’t avoid this and I don’t see them clamping down on things that keep their population “busy”.
Bifurcation in education and intellect will just add to the economic divide.
Tsurezuregusa (Essays in Idleness), Yoshida Kenkō 1330 - 1332 AD
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th...
Congrats on joining the long, proud, ancient history of saying society is going to hell.
—
But as to contemporary TV: it ain’t junk. You want to see junk? Go back to the 1970s. Three’s Company? The Love Boat? The Brady Bunch? Any of the awful cheesey variety shows? Modern TV is vastly, hugely better than what it used to be, in terms of acting, cinematography, and music. And I’d argue more intellectually challenging—so many of the hit shows have long, ongoing arcs, instead of standalone episodes, that require viewers to get invested and understand the plot threads. Takes a lot more brainpower to keep track of what’s going on in Watchmen than The Dukes of Hazzard.
But we’re not the only ones. Educational shows are better. Very much better, but the entertainment is still escapism, whether they have Shatner or Olivier.
That said, entertainment and thinking don’t mix —which is why we have laugh tracks. Instead the programming is thinking for you. That’s perhaps worse than anodyne programming.
[1] https://time.com/2938158/youth-fail-to-qualify-military-serv...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear-baiting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-baiting
Bear-bating in Shakesperean times was probably the high-brow choice comparing to burning Catholics in public.
2. ?????
3. Profit!
It seems more like the phrase "virtue signalling" is used when someone doesn't like a thing and they just label it as such...
Working for a nonprofit or being a vegetarian isn’t virtue signaling. Dropping either in a conversation where it wasn’t related to the topic is. Constantly broadcasting as well. Putting “Crunchy mom” in your email signature is as well although that’s been around a while so not likely to be noticed.
That seems awfully wide...
So by your examples, communication?
That's just too wide a net. Humans are social animals, we communicate, a lot.
What I’ve heard is: companies are being branded as having virtue signaled because, for example, prior to the BLM protests (and riots), many were quiet about the issues of police violence, but then suddenly became “woke” and put out black squares on IG and other places.
It obviously isn’t a valid label on Apple because they’ve always been progressive (at least since Tim Cook).
However, you are right: virtue signaling is a common label for “they’re doing something I don’t agree with. Obviously it’s because they’re virtue signaling.”
I don't buy into the idea that you can just know if someone cares enough or not...
She has created a brand new production company, so anyone who tells you what her content is, is probably speculating.
Facebook: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Facebook_Watch_origi...
Not sure IGTV has originals. I see a plan to do it, not sure if it ever went through.
I had to search for these, I didn’t know about YouTube Premium Originals or Facebook Watch.
Firstly, everyone thinks AppleTV is an Apple-branded TV. I have had to explain to people how it’s an Apple Roku.
Then adding the + to designate their content offering instead of an enhanced AppleTV was equally terrible. I have no idea how they came to such a terrible decision.
Thirdly, the content is beyond terrible. I don’t know what they were thinking, but they spent so much time marketing AppleTV+ but they refused to spend money to acquire things that people want to watch.
It’s deeply akin to their strategy on spending money on marketing hype but being deeply superficial on quality of content. They are the worlds richest company but their software is extremely poor. They can afford to pay for the best software engineers, and they don’t. Their software is terrible.
The same goes with their TV shows. I watched The Morning Show which was okay but I haven’t turned it on since. There is nothing compelling to watch on AppleTV+. And Apple has all the money to buy content and they do a really bad job. They need to overspend on a hallmark show to get the traction they need.
And yes, FAM is up there with HBO's From the Earth to the Moon.
It has enough quality shows and movies to warrant a couple of months of subscription. I think it will slowly become successful despite the nay-saying, just like a lot of things Apple makes.
The show with Jason Mamoa was unwatchable, pun intended.
I also watched all the kids content which was either boring or bad. I had high hopes for the Charlie Brown content but my kid who loves space was pretty bored by their show on Snoopy going into Space.
Netflix has can’t-miss comedians like Dave Chappelle and all their specials. They have excellent kids shows like Dragon Prince and a ton of Captain Underpants offerings. HBO Max had new movies coming direct to streaming. Amazon Prime has a bunch of movies for free and it has The Boys. I think their kids shows are decent. Disney+ had all the MCU content including the new shows.
AppleTV+ had none of the above. They may have one-off shows that aren’t horrible but it’s not enough to sustain a subscription. I haven’t heard any buzz about them from my social network because absolutely no one uses AppleTV+. I’m the only one I know that even gave some of the content a shot. I would say that’s a complete failure for a trillion dollar company.
I consider that a good thing. Now I don't have to buy an Apple product to watch the channel.
Now I’m curious about the couple of shows people are mentioning in this thread, as I genuinely haven’t watched a single show in the last 9 or 10 months. Not only has the content (when I think I’ve found it) seemed to be mostly aimed at a 35-45 year old American market, the shows all feel so ‘earnest’ and frankly boring. Bit worried that this content may fall into the same trap: TV you feel you ought to watch, rather than have fun watching.
Look forward to being proved wrong, but now only have a couple months before I intend to cancel.
Your other points may well be valid.
Mythic Quest: Raven's Banquet, Stillwater, For All Mankind, Little America, Ted Lasso, Boy's State -- these are all pretty good or excellent.
They're definitely getting more hits than misses.
The Noble Peace prize is one example of these things, for instance back in 2014, the award went to the "The National Dialogue Quartet" in my country, it made it seem as if they saved the entire country from a looming doom whereas in reality they had very little effect and the entire thing was a circlejerk of sorts.
My point is, the world is shittier than it seems.
> In 2014, she was the co-recipient of the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Kailash Satyarthi of India. Aged 17 at the time, she was the youngest-ever Nobel Prize laureate.
"The content is not the same, but in both cases Americans are inhabiting a world in which one of the cushiest rewards for doing politics is to get into content creation, whatever form it takes."
So many non tech people aren't even aware that there is a service.
They sell the Apple TV hardware for that and, in my experience, it's much better than anything Samsung has ever come up with.
But not for previous model years - which happen to be good enough for Netflix, Prime, Disney+, HBO Max and every other streaming service out there. .
Apple must have placed some strict requirements on them.