148 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 196 ms ] thread
(2014)
That means it had some time to mature and get over teething problems, apart from not being vaporware anymore.
Surely the NoPhone Air is still vaporware still? ;)
Not exactly, its plastic bag is quite real and tangible.
Yeah, but their software updates come too few and far between for my taste. And come on: no security bugs in all those years? Coverup!
Completely Toilet Bowl Resistant

I like the NoPhone Air best. Zero weight, and it would be unsinkable in a toilet bowl!

The Air is water soluble though.
They still won't honor the warranty.
This is fun and all, but also incredibly sad. My fiancée previously complained that I was staring at my phone too much (and she was absolutely right). So, I decided to minimise it. Remove all apps and notifications, and kept it in a corner of the kitchen instead of in my pocket. Even though she has not increased her screen time, it is now obvious to me that SHE is staring to much into that screen. We are all phone junkies.
I've gotten in the habit of turning mine off regularly. I'll just turn it off in the evening and turn it on in the morning if I don't need an alarm (which... I have an alarm clock, I just tend to not use it).

I use it mostly for person to person communication and kid photos (the only things on my home screen are Messages, Signal, Hangouts, Element, the actual phone app, and the camera - everything else is buried over in the App Library), I've got most distraction websites blocked with 1BlockerX (not that it's hard to get around, but it's a good hurdle to jump), and about the only notifications I get are messages from people, plus emails on infrequent accounts (main account is poll only, no notifications).

It works well, though I still struggle with how much time can go vanishing down the rabbit hole of "I'm bored, I wonder what's on the internet today..."

I really need to get a "house phone" set up on an old cell phone. Get one of those "You only pay if you use it" plans, though I expect the spammers and scammers would cost me a lot of money that way.

> Get one of those "You only pay if you use it" plans, though I expect the spammers and scammers would cost me a lot of money that way.

I don't know what country you're in, (here in the UK I'd expect anyone would call that 'Pay As You Go (PAYG)') but could spammers and scammers really cost you anything? By calling/texting you? Even for pan-European stuff only the initiator pays these days.

In the US, without an inclusive calls plan (i.e. what you call a contract in the UK), both caller and recipient pay - it appears that you pay for "air time" (time in an inbound or outbound call). Most people will be on a contract with unlimited "air time", which effectively gives unlimited inbound and outbound calls without charge.

Operator billing models are seldom rooted in reality, and often are quite counter productive - 4G originally was a "pay extra" feature, despite the fact it is in an operator's interest to get users onto 4G due to the increased spectral efficiency, and better performance with weaker signals (so less complaints). They designated VoLTE (4G HD calling) as a premium feature for contract users, but it actually reduces the load on the legacy voice network. And don't start me with WiFi Calling, which is also often a contract premium feature, but actually trunks the call over a connection the user already pays for (and avoids using the cellular network!) - common sense plays little part in how operator billing works.

In the UK look up the "termination rate" if you're interested - this was the mechanism through which the receiving side of the call made money and was able to offer receiving of calls for free.

I'm in the US.

There are three types of plans here.

* Standard postpaid contract. The flagship plans, lots of perks that may or may not be useful, used to have cell phones every 2 years.

* Prepaid plans, or "poor person plans." They're cheaper, usually lower priority on the network in the event of congestion, and work just fine as far as I'm concerned (I'm on one, US$30/mo for unlimited call/text and a whopping 2GB of data, of which I rarely use more than about 500MB, and half of that is system services).

* "Pay per day used" plans. These are something along the lines of a flat $2 for every day the phone is used to receive or send a call or text. They'd be perfect for an infrequently used cell-phone-as-house-phone that never left the property, but the scammers and spammers would make every day a "used" day, it seems.

News, asynchronous communication, and other media have a payoff structure not unlike a slot machine's. It can be genuinely hard to determine whether one's consumption of any of them is irrational.
I forgot who said checking notifications is like pulling the slot machine lever, but it's an apt comparison.
One silly trick: put your phone into greyscale mode. Without the colours, a lot of the addictive time sinks are just less exciting.
Hacker News without orange? Oh my.
You might not be aware, but it is possible to change the color of your top-bar in your profile once you have more than 250 karma.
Not the parent poster, but thanks, I had missed that.
Indeed! And the "BRIGHT RED WARNING NOTIFICATION SOMETHING TO CHECK!" bubbles aren't nearly so grating either. They're still present, easy to read, but not as visually abrasive.

What's really funny, on iOS, at least, is that the accessibility settings persist across device upgrades. You can configure a triple tap of the home button (or power button on newer devices) to toggle the accessibility option, so you can toggle quickly between greyscale and full color. This is nice if you're showing people photos, though I do tend to forget to switch it back.

I set up the option for someone on their phone years ago, and they'd apparently not used it much, because they entirely forgot I'd done it. On a phone or two later in their upgrade cycle, he had it laying on the table (locked), so I reached over and triple tapped the power button. And the setting had persisted all these years such that it still jumped to greyscale!

There are very, very few things that you can't do with a modern smartphone when it's in greyscale - any sort of colorblind aware application should be distinguishable without color details, and if you're not showing photos to people, it's entirely possible to go months in greyscale. I suggest trying it out!

(however, if you take a screenshot to show off your fancy new greyscale scheme, be aware that they're still taken in color)

The problem I face is that I am quick to turn off the greyscale or any other measure I would have taken.

I do read a lot on mobile so it is a productive entertainment for me but the problem is that constant exposure is not a good thing especially if the time it occupies is your family time.

I wrote an Automator script to do this with my computer and it really helps bolt yourself down to crank out a work sesh. In the context of programming, not having color-coded syntax slows me down enough to think through the work instead of typing away immediately. It's almost a meditative exercise that reminds me of switching from digital cameras to shooting, processing, and scanning black and white film.
(comment deleted)
That is the main reason I don't have a phone.

I know that I'm addicted to the internet and screens, and I know I'd be that guy compulsively picking up my phone every 30 seconds to see if something is going on. Doubly so if I were in a social situation where it was "easier" to stare at my phone than actually talk to humans.

I think of it a lot like a recovering alcoholic not wanting to go into a bar - it's just best to avoid the temptation altogether.

It can be inconvenient not have a phone from time to time, but overall I think my life is better without one.

Whenever I'm asked for my number and I explain I don't actually have a phone, literally every single person gushes "OMG, I wish I could get rid of mine!". That helps keeps me motivated to deal with the inconvenience. (Like people complaining about horrid hangovers to recovering alcoholics)

(comment deleted)
I have on the odd occasion switched back to a feature phone. My longest streak was about 9 months and it was an interesting experience.

For the first week I found myself looking for it in situations I never noticed, for example while waiting for my coffee to be made. Instead I had to find other things to do, like observe my surroundings, observe other people, be with my thoughts.

There are quite a few things that are _very_ handy having a smart phone around, though. Like Google Maps, or internet banking, but these can be mitigated by having an inexpensive secondary plan and keeping your 'smart phone' in your car, and most others can be managed by a web browser, _when you are at a computer_.

I have even considered what it might be like not having a phone at all for a while, and how odd would that be? I got my first phone at 16 years old and then I was able to contact friends to find out where they were if they were late, or to inform others that I was late, yet it was not very long ago that if you planned to meet someone you were both uncontactable while attempting to meet up.

It used to be a thing that you'd hang around for 30 or 60 minutes to see if your friend would 'show up' but I can't imagine that happening these days, for better or worse.

And I just droppped my 4 month old new Pixel and it's broken.

The new experiment begins, I guess!

Getting rid of notifications (banners and badges) goes a long way. Now I only get them for instant messaging, and I don't respond to messages when I'm with someone else.

I realised that I don't need to check emails as they arrive. Very few things require my attention.

I also removed time sink apps, with the exception of reading apps (I read myself to sleep with them).

I also stopped following everyone on some social media, so the feeds are empty, but I'm logged out anyway.

This has worked reasonably well. I am not a phone addict anymore, because my phone doesn't feed the addiction.

And FBI won't break into it!
Good point; actually they should tout their excellent security more.
I've seen wooden handcrafted versions of this and thought: "Cute, I guess there might be niche market for it".

Chunks of useless throwaway plastic that will end up polluting our oceans, not so cute.

a small rounded plate with a mirror, nophone selfie pro
A Claude glass (or black mirror) is a small mirror, slightly convex in shape, with its surface tinted a dark colour. Bound up like a pocket-book or in a carrying case, Claude glasses were used by artists, travelers and connoisseurs of landscape and landscape painting. Claude glasses have the effect of reducing and simplifying the colour and tonal range of scenes and scenery to give them a painterly quality. The user would turn their back on the scene to observe the framed view through the tinted mirror—in a sort of pre-photographic lens—which added the picturesque aesthetic of a subtle gradation of tones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_glass

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26524041

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14439863

yea. I don't think it's a guy trying to make money with a cute joke that's to blame for global pollution. You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not trolling you, but i doubt these guys are making millions of their product. They simply want to live. We shouldn't be punishing them for the sins of the Great Polluters.
We all "simply want to live". Not having microplastics in everything, everything we eat, everything we drink, etc, etc, goes a long way towards that.

I'm not "punishing them for the sins of the Great Polluters", I'm just expressing an opinion on a public forum. Sadly, the only way we have to change the behavior of "the Great Polluters" is showing them we care.

I see enough plastic garbage on our beaches, I try to minimize my own plastic waste and will call people out on it. It may not change the world, but it are the only tools I have.

It's crazy, I noticed I liked the phone in my hands, and I scurry around to try to find my phone if I realize it's not there. Crazy. I even tried the light phone.
This is a great joke. But I'm skeptical this will actually illicit any behavior change. I think a better approach is to try to change our current phone usage patterns. I've been working on a timelock wireless charger to do just that: https://pausbox.com/
What if someone needs to call 911?
These things are not high security safes. You can probably smash the damn thing easily if you really want your phone, an emergency bypass may even be provided for that reason.

But that thing looks somewhat expensive, and the idea that you may break it should be enough to keep you away from the usual distractions.

It mentions integrating with your phone's do not disturb functions. Usually in an emergency someone will call you multiple times in a row and, presumably, this would open the shell.

And unless you live alone, which many don't, other people will usually have phones.

You can also buy a dumb phone specifically for emergencies, 911 doesn't require a paid line.

And like other's said, you can probably pry that sucker open. It looks flimsy honestly, with no lock or dead bolt connecting the two parts in the front...

Boredom, as they say, makes you creative.

So you can of course use your phone to cope with boredom — install a couple of good drawing / painting apps, music creation apps, study-something apps. Use them when bored.

Just stay away from the endorphin-pedal games which teach you nothing and are not a work of art to be experienced.

With that, a conscious act of putting down your phone and looking around is important. You can make it a habit without abandoning the phone altogether.

>Boredom, as they say, makes you creative.

I have never heard this maxim. Is it well known?

The Pet Shop Boys sang, I would never find myself feeling bored 'cause we were never being boring.

I remember seeing this on Shark Tank years ago and didn't think much of it. Now I have a toddler who always goes after our phones so maybe this will be a good gift for him.
We have and I have seen other parents use old phones or old remote controls for this.

For young toddlers, say 1-2, this works for a day or two up to maybe a week. Then they learn to distinguish between the ones you go for and the ones you don't.

They want to do what you do, they will go for your phone, pen, laptop, glass etc precisely because it is yours.

Later, say 2.5-3 and up, when they are capable of self sustained imaginary play having a prop is nice. But by then, anything will do because the play is in the imagination.

> ...Phones often are an all-in-one coping mechanism for other issues

While I agree in principle for healthy people, it's a waste of time, but for people for whom light entertainment is their medicine... would you rather they be drinking?

This comes up a lot re: video game addiction.

The jury's still out on the impact of social media and light entertainment (i.e. YouTube) on mental health. UK teens for example are doing far fewer drugs, getting pregnant from unsafe sex much less often, rising in school rankings, despite less sleep and higher levels of reported anxiety from watching more YouTube and Instagram.

"Everything in moderation" is kind of reductionist, of course we'd prefer that an asinine activity whose harm must be marginally declining the more people use it, not less, for the average person, substitute a harmful one like, I don't know, smoking meth. That's definitely happening for some people.

>... but for people for whom light entertainment is their medicine... would you rather they be drinking?

While I don't find anything wrong with light entertainment being one's medicine, why make the assumption that drinking is the next viable 'medicine' in line? Are there not countless alternatives to drinking to remedy "boredom, stress, loneliness, etc."? Picking up hobbies? Sports? Anything else?

Edit: I want to clarify I'm not judging those who cope with alcohol - I'm 5 years sober, I've been there, I get it. I just don't know why we should assume OP wants people to become alcoholics.

These are all fair points reasonably made.
Isn't a similarly low-effort activity like drinking the more likely alternative for the kind of person who relies heavily on social media to fill their lives? Higher effort activities like hobbies and sports and such are obviously healthier alternatives, but anyone can already do them and they probably would if they had any inclination to do them in the first place.
That's an unwarranted assumption.

Phones, games, apps, and social media are, quite literally, engineered to be addictive.

Addiction is powerful. There are plenty of cases of star athletes ending up as homeless junkies, and this isn't because they lacked the ability to engage in higher-effort, healthy hobbies.

Especially for the generation of kids raised on (and often by) smartphones and tablets. Breaking those addictions can open up a universe of new possibilities, and provide much more positive outlets for all of the energy previously invested in games or social media.

> Addiction is powerful. There are plenty of cases of star athletes ending up as homeless junkies, and this isn't because they lacked the ability to engage in higher-effort, healthy hobbies.

Yes, I'd argue that it literally is because they lacked the ability to engage in higher-effort, healthy hobbies. Ask any star athlete junkie what he thinks is more healthy and more fulfilling: hobbies & sports, or whatever drug they ended up addicted to? They know what's better for them. For one reason or other, they don't do it. If the reason is addiction, that literally implies that they can't do it and addiction overpowers their ability to engage in higher-effort, healthy hobbies as a replacement.

> Breaking those addictions can open up a universe of new possibilities

Except you're not breaking these addictions, you're just sequestering or discouraging one particular abuse. Sometimes that helps. After all, teenage abstinence isn't zero percent effective. After all, cold turkey isn't zero percent effective. Though, the universe of possibilities they open tend to be relatively unreliable compared to teenagers having sex anyway & junkies returning to drugs, or safe sex & methadone.

> Phones, games, apps, and social media are, quite literally, engineered to be addictive.

No they're not, they're engineered to be engaging. There's no evidence I know of that phones, apps, etc consistently induce anything close to the addictive response in humans as the addictive substances we know of. Frankly, claiming that these things are "engineered to be addictive" is flat out misleading and conflates the extremely consistent & brutal consequences of addiction as science understands it with the much less understood area of social media.

Holy false equivalencies!

You've managed to take... Well a bunch of things which do not create physiological dependency and decide they're exactly equivalent to opiates.

> and just confront the boredom

"If you are bored, you are not paying attention."

So, it’s plastic waste.
30% carbon footprint, 0% features
I was a fan of this before it was cool
Changed to a Nokia 225 a couple of weeks ago. Either when you do that, or delete everything on your smart phone and have nothing to do on it, you realise just how much time people around you look at their phones.
I have one, with the SELFIE accessory.

Rock solid, never gave me any trouble. Works exactly as advertised.

It was on Kickstarter first, iirc. I laughed so hard that I bought one.

I prefer my Palm phone[0]. It is so tiny I can't really DO anything with it unless it is a legit emergency. But when I do need it, there is wifi, cell, browser, google maps, and gps. The "life mode" is fantastic, no calls or notifications at all until you unlock the screen. Combined with a really short battery life when the screen is on, it is the perfect daily driver for me and my outdoors lifestyle. Also charges in like 15 minutes.

However, I have a regular mega phone with wifi only for lounging on the sofa, so I still have that problem when I'm at home :/

[0] https://palm.com/pages/product

If that only had enough storage for my music and a fingerprint unlock, I'd get it. Really even just a fingerprint unlock would be enough. I can't stand face unlock.
I just use the regular swipe code, frankly I'm not opening it that many times a day anyway, I think it's a feature not a bug.
This looks great! I was a little worried about the Jelly2.
Is it possible to run a more free OS on it? I don't really want all that Google crap.
I wish there was a tiny 4G LTE phone with the same form as mid-2000s nokia: a screen just big enough to read texts on and most of the space occupied by physical buttons for dialing. Preferably with a firmware that is never expected to be updated.
I think you still want an OS that is updated, if only for security reasons.

I'm using a Nokia 2720 Flip (https://phonesstorekenya.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Noki...), a phone from a line of those old-time phones: big physical buttons, 4 directional keys. It runs KaiOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS) a recent OS that targets low-end "dumbphones" but still gives them modern functionalities. Most are unneeded in the context of the thread (Facebook, Ok Google) but some might be useful (there's Whatsapp if you really need it, emails)

There's a list of devices that are sold with it in the wiki page. It's primarily targeted at emergent markets but you definitely can buy them. Bonus: because they're simple, they're cheaper

Thanks! That Nokia 2720 Flip looks pretty decent. It's certainly the best I've seen so far. It's too bad it runs a full featured operating system and the applications are web/js based. That's a no go for me.
To be honest as a user you don't see the difference with 2000s-era featurephones: the UX is the same (same kind of menus, same D-pad navigation, same slowness here and there ...). You don't have any idea it's all a bunch of javascript files; it's not like you have ad-ridden bloated sluggish websites.

As a user I don't believe it matters that much what OS or what language you're using as long as it's stable and functional. KaiOS definitely fits the bill

> I think you still want an OS that is updated, if only for security reasons.

The trick is to make it simple enough there is nothing to update. I still have and use my 2006 Motorola Razr (also have a Palm phone). Of course the razr doesn't get updates but there's nothing to update. It can't run any external code, it can't connect to anything and no sensitive data ever enters or exits it. So, it's the perfect phone.

I'd pay anything for a new phone just like the Razr but with 4G or later, zero additional features. Only reason I also have the Palm phone is that 2G doesn't work everywhere anymore so I need a backup.

For $7.50 you can get a dummy phone which looks a lot more realistic. A quick search on Aliexpress shows this for the iPhone X, and there are plenty of other options. (I had a bunch of the iPhone 8 models for a work project. The only downside is the glass is most definitely NOT Gorilla Glass).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001708486523.html

I don't think mimicking a real phone as closely as possible is the intent
Back when I lived in Japan, stores had plastic dummy phones to show you what they looked like and let you pick them up. I guess that went away when the “Galapagos style” phones died off.
They still do that in restaurants with displays of incredibly realistic fake food called sampuru, there's a huge industry around it.
I realized that having an older phone (Nexus 6P) helps not use it because it is so slow and annoying to use that I dread having to interact with it. So I still have the necessary features like navigation, on-the-road connectivity, company VPN authentication etc. but past that don't get addicted to time wasters at all.