I must admit, during work from home I have enjoyed using a keyboard far louder and more satisfying than anything I'd consider using in an open plan office. It'll stay here, and be another reason to spend at least a couple of days a week at home for the foreseeable future.
At home I have a Matias Tactile Pro, which uses a kind of modern take on alps switches. I love the feel but man, that thing is a gatling gun. Borderline ridiculous.
At home I use buckling springs (Unicomp model M style plugged into an iMac) - I live alone and can make lots of typing noise. In the office its a Filco with some color Cherry switch I forget but its a lot better than the keyboard that came with the box they supply.
It's funny, because some of my colleagues are thinking of switching the other way around, at least during video conferencing. They have to mute themselves to do a quick Google search, otherwise you have this annoying sound when you talk.
That's interesting. The etiquette where I work has sprung up to keep yourself muted unless you're the one talking, and if you're talking you're not typing, so it's less of an issue.
The etiquette is roughly similar, it's just that sometimes the person talking is also the one needing to get more info, e.g. open the relevant ticket or something. It's certainly not impossible to mute while they do the search, but apparently it's annoying enough that they have thought about changing the keyboard.
From my experience using mech keyboards for the last 10 years I would say the reliability is a bit of a myth. I've broken 3 keyboards so far. By the time I had 1 switch fail lots others feel worn out so not worth repairing if you can't do it yourself.
If you are after your first mech do test out multiple switch types. A world of difference between them and it depends on personal preference, you can't decide by reading about them.
Also consider a model without numpad if you don't use it often. For me it is a big comfort improvement not having the mouse so far away.
As a counter anecdote, in about ~15 years of using mechanical keyboards I've never had one fail. I had a daily driver for 7 years that was good as new when I eventually gave it to a friend.
Couldn't agree more about the other two points though. To go along with your second point I would also strongly suggest looking for a keyboard that is hot swappable. You can use a switch tester and all that, but only actual experience will tell you what you really want, and I think very few people end up sticking with the first switch they have. A hot swappable board will let you alter the switches without replacing the whole device.
I concur with the last two points as well. It is a bit annoying, but I recommend getting 3 or 4 of a single switch to put in a tester to mimic "real typing".
I am a strongly believer of smaller is better, my daily driver is a 48 key ortholinear board. I use a 60% from time to time, and it feels gigantic. I can't even imagine going back to a full 104 keyboard.
It really depends how the board is built. Cherry switches are very unpopular in the community, but they do excel in reliability. There's a reason you still occasionally see POS terminals in your local fast food restaurant use grime-filled disgusting but functional (and by now considered vintage, up to $7 per switch) MX Blacks.
What do you mean "unpopular"? Weren't they the one and only just a year or two ago? When I've been shopping for my TKL keyboard, they were basically the only option.
Well, in the enthusiast circles they are unpopular.
Compared to alternatives, Cherry has barely innovated in the past 20 years. Their switches are scratchy. Browns are barely tactile if you compare them to the competition, often jokingly called "linear with sand in it". The blue has much better alternatives using clickbars instead of clickjackets and clickies are much less popular in the enthusiast space, because they care about good sounding thocks. The lesser known colors are all extremely heavy. MX Clears (as parts, for making frankenswitches) and heavily lubed Blacks (particularly with housings produced before the 2000s, aka "Vintage Blacks") have a small following,
but that's really it.
OEMs are only very slowly catching up to this, but they are. A few months back we even had the first OEM board with Zealios switches!
It's a lot of 65% and 75% now. There's not really the one chase switch anymore, but OG Holy Pandas retained their value pretty well considering Glorious got very close to them.
My daily driver is a 30 year old Apple Extended Keyboard II, however I did have to go through several (6) to find one that only needed minor repair and had the right feel. Now that I have though, I feel pretty confident I can repair any switch that starts to act up.
Easier to repair though. Eg my supplier allowed me to attempt a repair myself while still honouring guarantee if I failed. Worked out so saved shipping to Germany and a replacement cost for supplier
Many third party switches, especially in the "super smooth feeling" category, seem to be using softer plastics than original Cherry switches. Those iirc have a little bit of glass fill in them, which makes the material much tougher and more wear-resistant, but results in the "crunchy" feeling of the switches.
Bouncy switches are a real problem with third-party switches as well, even though cherries generally don't do that.
They do, but they're rare. I had my eye on a group buy for a left numpad mechanical keyboard, but it was like $300 minimum and it didn't even include switches or keycaps.
A right-handed friend of mine straight up switched mousing hands after I suggested it as a joke. I think he still mouses with his left hand to this day. I tried for a little while, but it was like learning to walk all over again and I couldn't get used to it.
I don't know what people do with their keyboards but for decades I've been using cheap membrane keyboards for coding/gaming and never had reliability problems, and I keep a keyboard 5y+. I just changed because I wanted to really.
Topre keyboards are my holy grail honestly. They aren't technically "mechanical" keyboards since they still use rubber domes but are still well-known and respected in the MK community (albeit memed upon often). Since Topre uses proprietary switches based on capacitance there isn't as big of a modding community around them but the keyboards are mostly produced in Japan (Realforce) and Korea (Leopold) and have insane build quality.
As a relatively fast typist (~150wpm) the tactility and comfort of topres feel superior to me in every way. And oh man the sound - do yourself a favor and look up a video of a silenced Realforce or Leopold - they sound like gentle raindrops and are insanely therapeutic when working.
I've been using a RealForce keyboard for years and it's an absolute joy to type on. With a decent wrist I've never felt any fatigue even after very productive days.
I wish I'd bought a silent one though, whenever I forget to mute myself on Zoom my typing is clearly audible. Not everyone appreciates the 'thonk'.
I was seriously disappointed by the HHKB. My Type S is still kicking around in a closet, it's just a very rattly/plasticy feeling keyboard for the price point.
Boba U4 is a mechanical switch that gives an extremely similar feel to a Topre, but is dramatically less key wobble which makes a huge difference
Along those lines, I have plans to purchase a Matias Ergo Pro as my first foray into mechanical. I can't type on a non-ergo keyboard (I've been using the Microsoft Natural for over a decade), and I'm thrilled at the idea of going mechanical, but the noise bothers me.
I heard a side-by-side of a silenced topre (realforce 87u) vs Matias quiet click, the the silenced topre is much quieter.
Any hot swappable ergonomic board will be fine. Hot swappable means the switches can be pulled out of the sockets on the circuit board. Otherwise, you'd have to desolder the switches.
Edit: Do not worry, assembling a keyboard from parts is childs play. There's not a lot that can go wrong, just be careful not to damage the circuit board, and check that it fits the case.
Thanks for responding to me... I went into a deep dive, since I didn't know that was a possibility. Unfortunately, there are no full-size split hot-swappable ergonomic boards.
I can deal with a separate numpad, and I can use shortcuts to replace media/brightness/volume keys, but you can take away my arrow keys when you can pry them out of my cold, dead hands ;-) I'm not ready to go the chording route of something like the ErgoDox.
I found the Cloud Nine C989M, not hot-swappable, but ANSI layout only, no ISO, so it's out of bounds.
The Keebio has the Quefrency, which I can kit out with a separate numpad and wrist rests, but that's not hot swappable, and 1.5 to 2x the Matias Ergo Pro.
I think for now, it'll have to be the Matias, and maybe later I'll decide it's worth the investment to go chorded, or invest 4x what I'm used to (as opposed to 2x)
This is a nice introduction and the link at the bottom provides some good depth for people looking to go a bit further.
As an enthusiast who has built many keyboards, I wish the public could get easier access to more "boutique" switches. Gateron yellow (linear), Box Jade (clicky), and Zilent 67s (tactile) are amazing, but you pretty much have to be ready to build your own deck to use them.
It's really weird that Gateron Yellows aren't in more mass market boards. Even when Gateron switches are used it's nearly always Reds, despite the Yellows generally being much preferred as far as I can tell.
People who are not too far into keyboards often have a vendetta against actuation force before they give heavier switches a week or two. You can see this in the video LTT did on blind switch tests, they picked the most mainstream (including MX browns in the tactile category, considered garbage by most of the community) switches because they were familiar.
Hotswap makes it easier than ever, If you just want a platform to try different switches a board from the GK series works fine too. Fully assembled board for less than a $100 is totally possible.
Also, try Boba U4s, beats out Zilents at half the price, use the lower weight variants for more pronounced tactility.
Building/Running a heavy cuda accelerated app that taxes cpu/gpu very much over long periods of time it helps keeping temperature in check and the clocks stable. It is not strictly required but makes the while system very quiet and stable. If you are e.g training deep learning networks it can be almost mandatory if you stack more than 2 high-end GPUs into your case.
If you rent a server (real or virtual), whose software load you have control over, that's not SaaSS. In SaaSS, someone else decides what software runs on the server and therefore controls the computing it does for you. In the case where you install the software on the server, you control what computing it does for you. Thus, the rented server is virtually your computer. For this issue, it counts as yours
Touch type was really life changing for me. Also switching from French Azerty to Qwerty. It's not about WPM but about staying in the flow, I feel directly interfaced with the machine. It's a pity to watch colleagues still stoping, looking at their hands and doing weird combinations to type very common characters like (), {} or [] hundred of times a day.
Good start, but your are missing a few things too. For example the culture of mechanical keyboards, or more importantly how that affects buying them for the first time and, when the time eventually comes, replacements.
Want to be able to replace your keyboard, or get another one for the office easily? Buy a Cherry G80-3000.
Want to get used to something only to find it’s incredibly hard to find a second one that matches your muscle memory? Get an RGB Vortex racer 3 pro or an AKKO3068 with a custom run of SA double shot hello sushi keycaps in limited edition dat boi green.
Want something that you can place in a backpack and not cry about when one of the 1000 tiny little bits of plastic — all of which are critical to the keyboard operation — snaps off as you pull it out? Keychron K1 or one of its siblings. (And this isn’t a slur on the K1’s build quality — all keyboards are, by their nature, delicate devices.)
I own all of the above and more. That’s not a flex. I’m an idiot. If I did it all again I’d buy a six pack of K1s and stop there. Unrelated: can I borrow some money?
(You have a typo fyi: “there are mainly four types of switches: black, brown, green, and brown”.)
1. Wireless is kind of a rarity in the MKB landscape
2. It's one of the more inexpensive hot-swappable boards out there, which is a stellar feature if you want to try different switches but dont want to buy an entire new keyboard.
Can confirm - Keychron didn't even come up on my initial searches a few years ago for mechanical + wireless, and I ended up with a couple (work, home) of the Logitech G613.
These are good, solid devices, with a nice response - however both are starting to give me double characters on some keys. I'm wary about popping the tops on the keys, and so far some good thumps / blowing out around the affected keys has resolved the problems. However, reviews around the net suggest this is a problem that tends to get worse with this model.
The Keychron is now on my shortlist once these Logitechs are unusable.
All mechanical switches are prone to bounce and oxidation. You can try contact cleaner or switch replacement (some keyboards have slotted switches that can be replaced without soldering).
Consider next a keyboard with programmable firmware (QMK) so you can adjust and mitigate bounce in software.
Noted, thank you - but a quick search suggests Keychron isn't in that category. On the other hand, they have replaceable caps that are (individually) quite cheap.
I'm 6-12 months away from a follow-up purchase, but will tag QMK options for the next search.
I was not even remotely convinced that I would find a mechanical keyboard to be a superior option 6 months ago. But I was frustrated after my Apple Magic Keyboard 2 died. It was probably even under warranty, but mid-pandemic that was unapproachable.
A friend recommended Keychron. After 6 months of using the K1, I'm not sure I could ever go back. I've bought a case for carrying it around, because as another comment mentions the keycaps are prone to coming off in my bag.
I have the red low-profile switches, and they're not as quiet as a membrane keyboard, but they're not loud enough to annoy the only other person I share a work/living space with, so that's all that matters.
The wireless is definitely an important feature for me as well. My Macbook Pro is already a dongle party without needing to plug a keyboard in as well.
It's not as low-profile as the Magic Keyboard 2, but it's a tradeoff that I'm prepared to accept. It's well and truly earned it's place in my backpack.
I have K2 which I bought for the form factor (75%, 84 key, laptop-like, etc).
It works fairly well for me, but I find it needs a wrist rest.
However, I would love for there to be a "autonomous" wireless option. Bluetooth works OK on both my MBP and Linux laptop. But I can't use it fully under Linux, since I have full-disk encryption and so need a keyboard during the early boot stages. Also, my main computer doesn't have Bluetooth...
All in all I'm not disappointed, I wasn't looking for a wireless keyboard and knew it was bluetooth only.
I’m waiting for the Nordic layout K1 (brown switches) to appear to try a mechanical keyboard for the first time, good to hear their build quality is acceptable (been reading some online reviews, and some people seem to have issues with Keychron boards).
In my opinion any modern guide that frames switches in terms of Cherry MX flavors is doing people a disservice. Double so for calling them "the gold standard"...
Gone are the days of Cherry having the only quality switches, now they're just mediocre slightly over-expensive switches.
Stuff like T1s, anything Gazzew puts out, etc. are not much more (or even cheaper) but give a much more enjoyable experience. Actuation point, tactile bump, and spring weight are three very easy to explain concepts that let someone go out and find a switch that's perfect for them
Can you suggest one that might pair well with the Contour RollerMouse Red?
I both love and hate this mouse. It’s fixed my RSI but it has been unreliable and limited keyboard choices. Also, I can hear coil whine when I use it wirelessly!
the switches and general feel of this keyboard is the best of any mechanical ive used (i have about 8 high-end mechanicsl ive gone through). its also much lower to the desk so i dont get wrist aches or need a wrist rest.
Here's my opinion as to why you might avoid a linear switch: They are just too easy to press. That is indeed nice for gaming, but you will send keystrokes just setting your fingers on the home row.
Also, this guide seems to be a rehash of what was available 10 years ago. It would be nice if you covered some of the newer options. Personally I dipped my toes in the water for the first time about 6 months ago and didn't recognize anything that was actually on the market compared to when I bought my first board with MX Blues back in 2010, and this is more or less the extent of the knowledge you could get back then.
That's an issue with extremely light (read: cherry red or equivalents), but if you get heavier switches you are very unlikely to have this issue. You are more likely to accidentally actuate a cherry brown than a black, for example.
Also I agree with your second point. If nothing else, it should be mentioned that you're more likely to see Gateron/Kailh in mass market boards these days. They do use a very similar color scheme which makes it easier for beginners though.
I'm currently using a Cherry G80-1800 with blacks (just got it, still got the honeymoon factor). I'm not really a gorilla man but I've had a lot of accidental presses. My normal board is running holy pandas which are lighter weight, but I never get accidental presses because the tactile bump keeps me away from the actuation point unless I actually want to press it.
Fair enough. I guess if you use the bump of the keys as your resting point then linears could give you trouble. I tend to just gently rest my fingertips on the keys without depressing them at all (I'm on 45g linears right now with no trouble). I guess it just depends on your style.
I got a board with silent reds (Durgod K320), and they felt really soft after using blue switches for a while before that. So I ordered a Leopold with black switches, figuring I'd enjoy the quieter linear switches but make fewer mistakes.
I was amazed at how much different the black switches felt. Pressing them a few times felt good, but when I actually tried to work with it my hands got tired really quickly and it became distracting.
The K320 with silent reds is now my go-to board, except for a wireless Vortex Tab 75. I'm currently waiting on a Tab 75 with silent reds, and I hope that will be my One True Keyboard.
I have a K320 with browns. Maybe browns are for you, they have a tactile feedback like the black, but it's much weaker, like the blues so you don't get tired. They are much more silent than the blues (no click), but are a bit louder than the silent reds.
I have the very same kb with silent blacks. I had had reds before and found them too easy to press - I suppose I do a lot of drumming fingers on the keys or just resting hands on the keyboard. I found the silent blacks to be perfect and not at all tiring after a full day of use.
I think it goes to show everybody is different and has different habits.
when i first got my MX Brown keyboard i was making typos all over the place. i wasn't used to how little i had to apply pressure to actuate a key. over time, i got used to it and i forgot i ever had that problem.
i remember when i see people who've never used Browns before sit down and struggle in the same way i first did.
> Common membrane keyboards only offer a life span of 5 million keystrokes while a mechanical keyboard can reach 50 million.
Maybe it’s just me, but while I have never had a problem with a rubber dome board, I have had to clean/adjust/replace cherry switches on every board I’ve put a decent amount of use into.
It's in the stat itself, common (aka lowest quality mass produced stuff) against expensive premium products. Of course good membrane keyboard will last for a good while more than 'common' stuff, while still costing half or less of the mechanical keyboards.
I feel there's a full cycle of buying keyboards. I wonder do people feel the same?
1. Buy mechanical keyboards with click sounds, preferably blue switch ones.
2. (Optional) tweak keycaps
3. (Optional) tweak customized keyboards
4. Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said. Then proceed to buy one, and couldn't be happier
5. Actually, I could be happier because I don't care about keyboards anymore - my favorite is a silent red switch one because it's doesn't draw attention (both mine and others'). Also never go back to keyboard forums or subreddits.
Yes. I think it ends up starting with blue, peaking to a dream keyboard which looks different for different people, then finally moving gradually back to keyboards resembling mainstream usage.
But I also quite like not having to hit the keys because they're stiff. I have a mechanical with Gateron browns which is silent enough for when I'm alone. Whenever I switch back to my MBP (2013 model, so "old" keyboard) I always miss keys because I don't push hard enough on them. This even happens on my work HP ProBook, which I had always considered having very "soft" keys.
But I think the difference between mechanical and "soft dome" is that even though the latter are soft, it's an "on and off" affair. When you start pressing you have a lot of resistance, which all of a sudden disappears, and you can't stop the finger until you hit the bottom.
On my mechanical, it takes me maybe a day or two to get used when I switch back, but then I'm able to type much more softly. Not sure how this affects my typing speed, my feeling is that I type about the same. But it's much more comfortable.
My favorite dome keyboard right now is the MS Sculpt, but I would love a similarly-priced (~€100), similarly-shaped mechanical.
My current configuration has the softest MX keys I could find (like 30g) for all keys but the 8 keys on the home row where fingers sit at rest.
These home row keys are NovelKey Box tactile keys, something like 60g. They are heavily tactile, but not noisy.
The trick is that I can leave my fingers on these stiffer keys, relax them, and the keys won't press under their weight. I never have to remove my hands from the keyboard, they are always ready to type without staying tense.
I thought about that, but I actually don't have an issue with involuntary key presses on the Gateron browns. Ironically, this does tend to happen on the HP Laptop.
But I think it's related to the "on / off" thing. Usually my hands rest their weight on the wrist-rest, but if I happen to shift the weight towards the fingers, I'll feel the gaterons start to move and have the time to stop. With the laptop, on the other hand, I don't feel anything and when I do, it's too late.
Hah, definitely didn't follow those steps myself, although I can see that being a popular template. I do hope mechanical keyboards become less associated with clicky switches over time. Before I realized the hobby wasn't necessarily dominated by loud clacky sounds, I not only didn't see the appeal, but actively detested the whole idea. +1 for silent linears.
Also, wanted to mention ergonomic layouts - would love for that space to be more mainstream! Some really cool stuff out there; I'm looking forward to getting a 3D printer someday and building some Dactyls.
I recognized this would be the cycle, so jumped to the end as the first step. Where I'm looping though is on keyboard layouts, and I may end up going for a matrix/split keyboard but I'm holding off.
I just want the keyboard to have those nice color keycaps and the tactile sensation to remind me of old IBM keyboards I used to have as a child.
Those were the days when simply using a computer or touching a keyboard was a rush, computers were rare and everything was so mysterious. Now they are commodities without much poetry in them. So I want the poetry back.
Note that the IBM Model M is actually a "membranical" design. Beneath the famous buckling spring is a bit of metal that strikes a contact membrane to close the circuit and register a keypress.
That said, it's nothing like the rubber dome pieces of crap we associate with membrane keyboards; its durability and keyfeel are still legendary. The membranical design may have contributed to its durability by making it less susceptible to dust and dirt.
I still love the patent name for it: "Catastrophically buckling compression column switch and actuator". Still wondering what is catastrophic about it.
I have 2 WASD's (blue and green), a Poker2, an OLD Razer Black Widow, and a few others. I always said that when Unicomp made a tenkeyless version, it would be a day-1 purchase. Two days ago, I just noticed that they started shipping in February. I bought one on the spot.
Oddly enough, it was aging that drew me to mechanical keyboards in the first place. I found that as I grew older, my hands started cramping when I typed, and the worse the keyboard, the more quickly my hands turned into gnarled, pain-wracked claws. Laptop keyboards were pretty bad but rubber-dome membrane keyboards -- of the type that just about everybody sold at the time -- were the worst.
Relief only came when I bought a Das Keyboard III with heavenly Cherry Blue switches.
I'm still rocking that board today, nearly 13 years later.
same here - as I got older, I really started to notice the stress typing put on my hands. Even though I use ultra heavy switches now (kailh box navies, cherry greens, etc) I still feel better at the end of the day. And switches don't register everytime my fingers twitch.
I think there is a distinct branch to this path. When you start building your own mechanical, ergonomic keyboards. I know this because I have built my first one couple of weeks ago [1], and am already thinking of how I can improve it.
Same here. I built a Dactyl Manuform, and it was definitely worth the hassle. I do agree with the OP that the stuff you see on the MK subreddit and similar sites is ridiculous, and mostly rip-offs.
I cycle through these steps but, fortunately, only in my mind. I browse through e-commerce shops, read all the blogs, DYI keyboards and what not. But in the end I realize that my current keyboard, Apple Magic, isn’t too bad. So I tell myself if it isn’t broken why fix it and get back to work.
As someone who has owned an HHKB at one point, then switched over to a full-size Topre Realforce board, I have to say you should consider giving Topre-based switches another chance, but on a proper Realforce board instead. Unlike the HHKB, Realforce keyboards use a metal plate internally, which seems to make for a more satisfying "thock" if you will. Plus, you can also acquire a Realforce board with varied key weights instead of the uniform 45g weight found on the HHKB.
Are there any QMK-programmable Topre boards? I'm open to trying them out but not if I have to learn and get used to yet another layout for media controls.
Edit: Also, do I still need to lube them? I remember HHKB felt slightly "scratchy" by default. Some people would also say that cherry-likes also needs to be lubed but my Zealios boards feel awesome as-is.
Keyboard Quantizer makes any USB keyboard to support QMK by proxying USB. It won't support all QMK feature/key combination due to the architecture. Probably you can import it from Japan.
> Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said.
I have one I love, bought it like 10 years ago. When I tried to buy a second one this year I had the bad surprise to discover they're not available with French layout anymore.
Anyway, some steps you forgot: the search for the best ergonomic keyboard and key layout.
I would buy a Ducky One 2 in the Skyline colors (reminds me of old Thinkpad keyboards with the blue return key), but they've been out of stock with a Nordic layout for 6 months now.
Yes I had to settle for something other than Skyline as well. I also bought a separate keykap set thinking it wouldn't come with any accent keycaps for WASD, but it did. So I have a lot of spare keycaps.
I went somewhat differently, I tried a split wireless keyboard and couldn't go back after that but Bluetooth was flaky, so I designed my own (wired) one.
1. Skip your 1,2,3,4 and just get am inexpensive Cherry MX-Board
2. After several years, realize that I'm not really happy with keyboard because it boosts my bad posture. So I see if there is a split keyboard that suites my needs.
3. Damn, I need to test switches (luckily a friend has a nice selection of testers).
3. I think I might prefer tactile, but I don't want to blow the money on an expensive split keyboard to learn I don't like tactile - so better go with hot swappable switches.
4. Realize the exact board I would prefer doesn't exist.
5. Do some research on firmware, keyboard matrix circuit,...
6. Use the opportunity to learn kicad over eagle.
Started with 6. yesterday. Actually it's not that complicated, I'm more afraid of hand soldering 100 SK6812 Mini-E and 100 kailh sockets than of the rest.
When I opened up my board to swap the switches, I realized it had unused RGB pads...soo of course I hand solder 60 2-3mm surface mount LEDs to it. Yep, last time I do that :-P But it worked, which was the fun part...
the sad part is, I don't even like RBG on computer gear
I'm not a huge RGB person, either. But my Thinkpad has plain white background LEDs. And even though I type blindly 98% of the time, I find it more comfortable to have some (slight) hinting when positioning.
Sad part for me: TIL that most keycaps with "shine through" need the LED above/north of the switch (else the LED mostly blinds the user), which means I need to rotate all switches by 180 deg. But the GMK caps (which are considered some of the "best") are known to cause trouble with that orientation. And some switches might be feel different as well.
Yeah - my vortex rebuild (1) has south facing LEDs, so they're basically useless. The only thing I really liked about shine thru's was the ability to occasionally change up the legend colors (ohh - maybe amber or yellow legends today? or blue!)
I always hated clicky switches and I have no idea why people like them. It's the quickest way to make a $1k keyboard feel as cheap as a clicky ballpoint pen. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of clicky switches, I just think all existing variants get it completely wrong(maybe except one or two Alps switches, but that's another rabbit hole).
And you can pry my 40% split ergo out of my cold, dead hands. I don't care about Topre, just give me nice linear switches and a layout that won't kill my wrists and didn't originate in a prehistoric era when it comes to computers.
I've experienced the same thing. All my fancy regular mechboards are sitting on the shelf while I daily drive electro-capacitive switches.
Epomaker makes a more affordable but equally as great Topre clone, compatible with MX keycaps: https://epomaker.com/collections/niz - I have one and got nothing but good things to say.
I have tried all Cherry's and I think brown or clear was the most similar to topre but I keep going back to topre. Not sure if there's something wrong with me or why Cherry's are so popular. Perhaps it's because they're modular whereas topre's aren't?
I don't know, I'd definitely call myself a mech keyboard fan, but not a zealot.
The one I'm typing on right now I've had since 2013 (changing key caps once in a while) and as I'm working from home, my private other one is close by.
I do have a few more (I think 3 others? [0]), but I've not found something to replace my daily driver and I'm not actively searchign. I'm not completely averse to building one at some point but I don't see the need, it might be a fun (expensive) project.
I feel like a perv, but I love the mushy soft travel of membrane keyboards. I have four Logitech G11-s for all my devices - the 3x18 extra keys are also great - they go strong since 15 years.
The feats of mechanical do appeal tho, and I fear what happens when they broke - but none of the switches could come close to this typing experience, and all I tried were way too loud.
Honestly credit for knowing what you like and not caving to hype/peer pressure. Membranes get a really bad rap, but if that's your groove then power to you.
Hah! I know a guy who has a literal stockpile of the black wired Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. I only found out because I too love this keyboard and we both think the obsessing over MKs is silly
Same I stocked up on Microsoft curve 2000 because these have great response, are quite firm and still have a long travel.
When they went out of production I stockpiles four and I'm on my last pair (home and office)
I had a mechanical keyboard before these were fashionable, but are honestly too loud to use in a shared environment without feeling like amasshole.
Oh and there's also the fact that cherry stuff have ludicrous prices for what what they are and what marginal improvement they offer. Heck, most of them are still in the straight slab form factor, it's clear they mostly appeal to nostalgia and not actual ergonomics.
Those were my keyboard of choice too! Bought a few when the industry seemed to think the home/delete/insert/page-up/down/end island needed a reshuffling.
> it's clear they mostly appeal to nostalgia and not actual ergonomics
There's no objective criteria what's ergonomic, different people have different opinions.
Once upon a time, I found a new job where people were using some MS ergonomic keyboards. I tried to adopt for a month or so, then I asked for another keyboard, with traditional form factor.
Nonsense, the amount of wirst bending to move sideways across a straight keyboard is a known finite quantity, not some exoteric 'nobody knows really' thing. Just because you don't feel it, doesn't mean the strain isn't there
I do agree however that some of the ms ergonomic keyboard went far too overboard with the concept to the point of being unusable. (I.e. those with the keyboard split in the middle instead of gently curving all the way across)
But the good one are are way better than the straight slab.
> the amount of wirst bending to move sideways across a straight keyboard is a known finite quantity
That amount is not a universal constant. I have large hands with long fingers, and I’ve played piano when I was a teenager. I don’t bend wrists to type stuff, at least when using furniture which suits me, and a full-sized desktop keyboard.
Some of us are too young (not that young…) to have stocked up on older Microsoft/Logitech ergonomic keyboards. I didn't realize mine would eventually wear out; by the time it did they were no longer available.
The options I found were
- something with laptop-style keys, which I find very uncomfortable to type on (I borrowed an MS Sculpt for a day)
- a split, membrane keyboard, which (from reviews) often seemed lacking in build quality
- a split, mechanical keyboard, either manufactured or as a DIY kit, and either a standard layout or something "weird".
I chose the third option. It was easy enough to ignore everything covered in LEDs or with loud switches. I chose to assemble a kit, as I hadn't done any electronics for years.
A month later I saw a Kinesis Advantage II visiting an office. That looked like a very good option too. I would probably have chosen that, if I'd seen it myself before deciding.
(I also checked with my colleagues, and no-one is bothered by the sound -- it's within the range of all the other "normal" keyboards in the room.)
Second the Cloud 9, had been seaching for something like it for a (very) long time. I was a MS 4k user for decade +. There are some issue with it, but so far I'm still on board. The massive space I can spread left/right completely changes my shoulder posture, which is good for me, question will be wether changes impact my fingers (more pressure required I think?!). I find the key feel a little variable, enter key stabilizer bar in particular I'll have to grease if I was actually into that (am not), and some keys feel very slightly softer than others, but not distractingly so.
It's also super macro-able with Karabiner, far more than 4k on Mac, if you're into that.
As someone who loves mechanical keyboards - there are many good membrane keyboards out there, if I had to use a membrane that would be Lenovo Preferred. They are a joy to type on.
I like both. I love the feel of my (former) 2015 MacBook Air membrane keyboard, and I love the feel of my Cherry MX Browns. Both of them are unique in their own ways and suitable for some things.
Excellent timing. I just got a desktop for the first time, and the keyboard it came with is aweful. I’ve been digging into the world of keyboards and have come up against the one big issue:
There seems to be no good keyboard on the market that does not have rainbow flashing LEDs under every key.
Can anybody recommend a good keyboard with adults as a target market?
Just a regular keyboard from the 90s. Not thin. Not light. Number pad and all. No ‘fn’ key under your pinky, and ideally no windows key either. I guess the “brown” keys from the article sound like what I would expect one of those old keyboards to feel like.
I suppose it can have a caps lock indicator. But I can’t think of any reason I will ever need my entire keyboard to glow blue.
Maybe an iKBC CD108. They are pretty easy to get a hold off. No real bells or whistles. It does have a windows key (I'm not sure I've ever seen a full size keyboard without a windows key to be honesty). Your choice of Cherry switches including browns.
I don't want anything to do with flashy RGB keyboards either. I did get one that has a simple white dimmable LED backlight, much like laptops with backlit keyboards. I use it occasionally in the winter time when it's dark and I just want a slight visual indicator of where the keys are. But most of the time I use a couple with no lights at all.
In nearly all cases you can just turn the LEDs off. I have 3 keyboards and they all have LEDs in one form or another, but you wouldn't know it.
They always use the most ridiculous rainbow pattern in the product photos to emphasize that the LEDs are there, it's pretty funny. I don't know a single person who actually uses a rainbow setting.
That said I can give a more targeted recommendation based on what size of keyboard you like to use.
That brand seems to replace the LEDs by painting the rainbow colors directly on to the keys. I looked through their lineup and couldn’t find any monochrome ones.
I don’t get it. Am I the only one who doesn’t want colors on my keyboard?
I sort of agree, but not as much as I agree with:
If you’re an emacs user, HHKB is the keyboard for you. I didn’t seem to take advantage of the switched CTRL placement when using vim at all, which seems like the largest difference between the HHKB and other boards.
If you're a user, a keyboard with programmable firmware is for you. Then your keys are placed where ever you program them to be, which can be changed on the fly too.
Is there a way way I can exactly replicate a Microsoft Sculpt, but with the apparent reliability or key action of cherry browns or clears? Because right now my mech keyboard is rotting in a cable bin while my hands, shoulders, and wrists are always so happy with the Sculpt.
The high-end of ergonomic mechanical keyboards are things like the Maltron or the Kinesis. Recently, there are projects which make use of 3D printing like the Dactyl Manuform.
Somewhat cheaper than these approaches is to go for a split keyboard, and 'tent' each of these halves. Ergodox is probably the most popular of keyboards like this; but there are smaller/cheaper keyboards like the Corne keyboard.
Not sure if there's a Sculpt clone out there, but I've been using a Natural Keyboard Elite for >20 years, and I'm pretty happy with the Kinesis Freestyle Pro I just picked up (brown switches because I don't want to make tons of noise in a coworking space). Key placement is close enough that there isn't much of a learning curve.
I have a gallery of ergonomic mechanical keyboards. I'm not aware of anything exactly like the Sculpt; once people are 3d printing a case they tend to make other changes.
The final picture is to a site with more traditional ergonomic keyboards, I haven't added these individually yet.
I've recently built a Dactyl Manuform [0], which is still a bit of work in progress (cf. the rubber bands :D ), but it's the most relaxed typing I've had so far. I used Gateron browns for this one, and they're really nice. I get a very relaxed typing position, and my fingers need to move very little. On the downside, there's a bit of a learning curve (ortholinear + layers)...
Honest personal opinion is that all of this stuff is a bit much. I agree that the stock keyboard you get with pcs and most laptops are a joke, but for most people (even engineers) a decent regular keyboard should be sufficient? Isn't the point of devices like keyboards and mice to disappear from my head so you only think about what's on the screen and what you're doing with it?
If this is what you want to spend your spare time discussing and buying sure, but let's not propagate any pseudo scientific facts about the superiority of mechanical keyboards in any regard. I've only seen people slow down typing in these clackety things going from an apple keyboard and I don't want to be in any zoom meeting with these folks either.
I had to try and went trying and bought a blue key mech board. They are great for gaming of course. After a year I went back and bought a silent Matias Mac replica keyboard. Used Mac keyboards for many years before, they are soft and low with optimal distance between keys, but enough tactile function to not make mistakes when resting.
Perhaps most of us get accustomed to what we have used for the longest time and want to use that.
Doesn't seem to be mentioned in many mechanical keyboard articles these days, but I still find the buckling spring style switches an absolute joy to type on. The classic IBM Model M keyboard.
My holy grail is a buckling spring ortholinear keyboard. I don'kt think that's going to happen anytime soon so I made a Kailh Pink XD75. It's as close as I can get, but that new Unicomp without the numpad looks amazing.
Note that even the Model M buckling spring mechanism is a step down from the earlier Model F buckling spring, which some people consider to be better. Personally I have not tried the latter as any surviving examples are quite expensive. But the mechboard world is a never ending hole, at least until you hit working beam springs, I think. :)
I had a model F AT, but sold it; it was a truly amazing keyboard, but the layout was a little too weird for me to get used to. Beautiful feel, though, and a satisfying wonky clonk sound.
Not really into the switches themselves, but have been looking into 40% ortholinears and realized there are comparatively few Bluetooth mechanicals out there, which I find strange.
Recent return to office I understood for the first time why people say membrane ones feel squishy. After covid exclusively on a mechanical it does indeed feel that way
I honestly don't understand the fascination with keyboards. For as long as I can remember, I've always used the cheapest keyboard I can find on Amazon, usually around $10. I've written software, books and movies on shitty keyboards. What's a fancy keyboard supposed to give me?
Much like the quality of a photographer is quite independent of their camera (in fact, the easiest way to insult a photographer is to tell them "wow, what a beautiful picture, what camera do you have?" ), I don't see how a keyboard can make any difference in the quality of the stuff I make. What am I missing?
It's about ergonomics. To me, a mechanical keyboard is more comfortable to type on.
I actually chose the camera I use for a similar reason. It doesn't have the fanciest electronics, but it has all the important controls on physical dials which make it more pleasant to use.
I enjoy typing on a mechanical keyboard. It's a pleasant tactile experience. That's all. No big performance or cognititive benefit, but why does there need be?
It's the same reason I have a plant on my desk. I like to look at it. It doesn't make me smarter, but that doesn't mean watering it is a waste of time.
The thing you touch and interact with every day, better be beautiful and bring you joy, whether through aesthetics, tactile feel, personalized function, or whatever else, hencewhy "custom" is the keyword here.
Nothing to do with quality of your typing or the work.
You don't opt out for the cheapest possible decor because it "does the job", your environment affects the way you feel and this is just one ways to express one's own.
There several reasons, some of them make logical sense, others don't ;-) Some people for example try to optimize ergonomics/efficiency. There is in my experience a lot of overlap with people liking mechanical keyboards (and if it is only for the feel of them ) and people trying to optimize keyboard layouts by using some advanced firmware such as https://docs.qmk.fm.
It's special because it's the main output interface between your mind and the network. You spend many days of your life on this device. It doesn't need to be cheap, for the same reason that the shoes of the professional football player does not need to be cheap, he could also score with bare foot.
It will depend on the switch, but personally on cherry blues and browns I can type while looking away from the keyboard (or screen) with basically 0 typos. On cheap keyboards either I type harder (and slower) on purpose to be sure or I just miss keystrokes randomly.
I can get by with a rubber dome keyboard by if I just write comments like this one, or light office work, where I see immediately what I type, but certain tasks don't have visual feedback (or you just look elsewhere).
In my case, using Vim in normal mode (command chains aren't usually seen until they execute), taking notes off meetings/presentations, doing translation work, adapting code snippets from elsewhere, and refactoring code benefit greatly from touch typing.
Not OP, but I do touch-type fairly accurately at around 85-95wpm, even on cheapo keyboards. I don't like it, but mechs are hard to find and expensive where I am.
> but mechs are hard to find and expensive where I am.
Same, but you might want to look into "gamer keyboards", those are usually easier to find. I ended up buying one of those from Razer (this one: https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards/Razer-Huntsman-Tourna...) that serves the purpose just fine and I can't say I have any complaints. (Though I obviously have no point of reference on how it compares with other mechanical keyboards.)
Pretty sure I could shave off $50 of the price of a new one and resell it to some teenager if I ever wanted to.
A nice mechanical keyboard is nice, especially to touch type on. It's only going to improve your writing in the sense that you'll be in a better headspace when you write because you're using a nice keyboard, but then how many hours a day do you spend typing? Is it not worth spending them typing on something you actually enjoy using?
The quality of a photographer may be independent of their camera but I guarantee professional photographers don't use cheap shitty cameras.
Edit: Tradition dictates a car analogy, so - when I bought my first car I couldn't understand why people thought disk brakes were better. I mean, you can lock the wheels with drum brakes so they're equivalent, right? Then when I got my second car with all-round disk brakes I was retrospectively horrified that I'd ever trusted my first car's brakes with anything.
Of course, a year later when I was more confident and started testing the limits of my second car, I found out the difference between disk brakes and racing brakes...
Generally speaking (there are always exceptions), mechanical keyboards are one of those things that you cannot live without any more once you use them. Before that, it's hard to see a point, but going back from a good mechanical to a mushy keyboard is hard.
Typing is just more fun on them. It's similar to having a favorite coffee mug for drinking coffee.
If you want a standard keyboard with a standard layout or something similar, a cheap rubber dome keyboard is going to work just as well as my $600 keyboard. If that's the type of keyboard you want, the reason people like them is because they think they sound nicer, feel nicer, and in many cases look nicer. They also have better built quality and people appreciate well-built things.
However, there are also situations where people are getting tangible benefits from mechanical keyboards. Some people don't have much desk space, so you can get a smaller keyboard and save room. It also makes them more portable if you feel like taking it with you.
Another tangible benefit is programmability and the use of layers. Some people work faster and more efficiently with a smaller keyboard with multiple layers. Another reason to use layers is for different use cases. I can have one layer programmed with a bunch of hotkeys for Photoshop, another layer for just normal typing/computer use, and another layer setup for gaming.
Another thing to consider is ergonomics. I 3d printed a case for a Dactyl Manuform and hand-wired my own customized, split ergonomic keyboard. After switching to it, the tendonitis in my wrist cleared up.
So, there is value to be found. However a lot of the people that want mechanical keyboards just want something that feels like it is a quality device. If that's what you're looking for, you can get something that will likely be the nicest keyboard you've ever used for $200 or less. Once you get to the $500+ mark for an entire build, you are venturing into the territory where its more of a fashion accessory. People want cases made by certain designers and while in some cases they have better features or are machined to a higher standard, you quickly run into diminishing returns.
IMO if someone wants to get into mechanical keyboards, its hard to beat the standard model of GMMK keyboards for the price. You can get it for $60 without switches or keycaps. At that point pay $30-40 for Box Jade switches if you like clicky switches, $70-100 for zeal helios switches if you like smooth linear switches, or $50 for aliaz 70g tactile switches if you like MX browns. After that spend $30-50 on a cheap but decent PBT keycap set. Finally, do about 10 minutes worth of simple modifications to the keyboard and you'll end up with something that gets you 95% of the value you'd get out of a $2000 keyboard at 1/10th of the price.
>the new 'elite' looks to have taken it up a notch too.
I got their new "Pro" as a secondary keyboard. Its really nice, however, unlike most of the reviewers I didn't like the polycarbonate plate. I put the stock aluminum one back into it because the polycarbonate one flexes so much the contacts on the switches won't stay in the sockets. Still once that issue was resolved its a great keyboard with a ton of cool features at a pretty affordable price (relatively).
>I originally got one, as it was hotswap and almost as cheap as a switch tester. But it compares well with say my Ducky.
My original standard GMMK ended up being a better keyboard than my first custom kit I spend over $300 on. For some reason my linear switches felt smoother on it, I had less issues, and the build quality was solid enough.
heh - yeah, I rebuilt a Vortext Cypher (1) including adding SMT leds to unused pads on the board... What I learned about soldering was worth the cost of the board :-) I like heavy switches so I put kaihl box navies in it. Its probably just bias, but its still my favorite board.
Nothing a Leica rangefinder would have given you if you were not a photo journalist in the late 50s.
A "special" keyboard can offer you a lot if you have an itch to scratch. Typing faster, relieving pain, automating sequences, enjoying the clicks, fast focus in low light, no mirror vibration in low light conditions, compact package, ruggedness...
As a side note, photographers are really picky about their gear :)
Ignorance is bliss - and I genuinely don't mean this in a negative way. I was perfectly happy with my cheap keyboard until I got tempted into a mechanical and now I love it. But it's great to be happy with what you have. Desire can be a source of unhappiness!
Monitor size and keyboard are far more important than the process speed in my experience. The bottleneck is never the processor speed or even RAM, but mostly the human working memory and cognitive capacity. Bigger monitor helps the former and good keyboard helps the latter with less typos.
I have RSI in my wrists; going from the normal average keyboards I'd used my entire life to a mechanical keyboard was like having my fingers slide on butter. It feels a lot better; less impact on my fingers, don't have to bottom out. It is also nice while playing games to get the key to register half way, can jam keys much faster.
I've always used the cheapest keyboard I can find on Amazon, usually around $10. I've written software, books and movies on shitty keyboards. What's a fancy keyboard supposed to give me?
I could feel the early onset of what could have become full blown carpal tunnel early in my career; since switching to mechanicals I have had absolutely zero problems. A Cherry keyboard isn't that expensive and will last forever. For me it is a very worthwhile investment in my health and the longevity of my career.
Most of these points already have been mentioned (e.g. ergonomics. My hands stopped hurting after switch to kinesis advantage. (but bevare of the so called “ergonomic” keyboards that actually are not))
There is anothe use case for fancy keyboards: a keyboard made for specific application. I you spend most of your work time in ProTools / Resolve / InDesign / expensive CAD, then an extended keyboard makes a lot of sense.
A related example is the majority of cash registers: those apple/banana key grids? They are likely a programmable computer keyboard! Those are cheap and not “fancy”, though...
> Much like the quality of a photographer is quite independent of their camera
And yet you'll have a really hard time finding a professional photographer using a cheap compact camera or their iPad to do their work. Just like you'll rarely see a professional developer writing code in Notepad.
I can type just as fast on a standard $10 keyboard as on my custom one. But on mine I can type more accurately, more comfortably for much longer periods, I can change the layout at any time as it's fully programmable, and at the same time it feels nicer. Why would I not use it?
I owned a used, but lovingly cared for, Volvo S80 T60. It was a magical car. The ride, the handling, the power, the comfort, the stereo. Everything about it was better than my current Honda Accord. My wife couldn't tell the difference in any of these things in driving it, or at least didn't care. It's a stretch, but I can imagine that undiscerning people could think a $10 membrane keyboard is fine. Statistics say those people should exist. What I can't understand is why anyone would want to spend even 5 minutes typing on one of those external Mac "magic" keyboards. They are truly terrible. Yet I know multiple people who prefer them over anything else. It just goes to show that you can't account for taste.
I used to use Mac keyboards because I wanted to minimize the difference in typing feel between using the laptop keyboard and using the external keyboard. I thought I was used to that and would never want to use a mechanical keyboard, because I thought I valued very small "travel" in the keys. I quickly found that I actually really liked both the tactile feel and somewhat low audible click of the Cherry Browns.
So I sort of moved from thinking I liked laptop keyboards, and hated mechanical ones, to appreciating the qualities of a good mechanical keyboard.
I used a mechanical keyboard (mk for short here on out) for a while after being loaned one by a Mechanical Keyboard Zealot coworker. (he was actually super laid back, and would just lend out keyboards to people :) )
After that I bought a Corsair keyboard because I wanted to get a mk as easily as possible and didn't want to try to decode the mk subreddit. Then that started to "break" (just needed cleaning, whoops, I gave it to my nephew to go with his parents' xmas present of a gaming PC) and I got myself a Ducky mk.
I also tried the ErgoDox but was getting frustrated with it during a crunch time at work, and put it aside for the ducky. One day I want to try the split keyboard again.
I'm currently typing on a keychron keyboard that I like well enough to use instead of the magic keyboard, but I'm more accurate and faster on the magic keyboard.
As a bonus, the magic keyboard's lower profile means that I don't have to use a wrist rest when I use it, unlike all of my mechanicals, even though I've got the lowest profile available mechanical.
They're extremely well engineered keyboards not worthy of your hate.
For me it is just more fun to write on a mechanical keyboard. I've never measured it, but I think that I'm writing a bit faster on it. But anyway, there is no other reason for me than that I like the the feeling, the sound and the mechanical quality. It's like drinking good wine.
On top of all the subjective emotional things, I can clearly see a difference in typing speed and accuracy. I do typing speed test from time to time and it was constant for quite some years, until I got a mech. When I got another (better) mech it got even better still. If you touch type and you are already fast, the tactile feedback of switches really closes up the feedback loop a lot better. Your fingers know you screwed up, before your eyes have to see the mistake. And it's also easier on my hands for some reason, but may have more complex causes.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 69.8 ms ] threadThat one hits the N-key rollover issue.. I cant use more than three keys at once on the cheap one.
oh well I guess I'll get used to the new mech one when it arrives...
It feels great to type on though.
If you are after your first mech do test out multiple switch types. A world of difference between them and it depends on personal preference, you can't decide by reading about them.
Also consider a model without numpad if you don't use it often. For me it is a big comfort improvement not having the mouse so far away.
Couldn't agree more about the other two points though. To go along with your second point I would also strongly suggest looking for a keyboard that is hot swappable. You can use a switch tester and all that, but only actual experience will tell you what you really want, and I think very few people end up sticking with the first switch they have. A hot swappable board will let you alter the switches without replacing the whole device.
I am a strongly believer of smaller is better, my daily driver is a 48 key ortholinear board. I use a 60% from time to time, and it feels gigantic. I can't even imagine going back to a full 104 keyboard.
Compared to alternatives, Cherry has barely innovated in the past 20 years. Their switches are scratchy. Browns are barely tactile if you compare them to the competition, often jokingly called "linear with sand in it". The blue has much better alternatives using clickbars instead of clickjackets and clickies are much less popular in the enthusiast space, because they care about good sounding thocks. The lesser known colors are all extremely heavy. MX Clears (as parts, for making frankenswitches) and heavily lubed Blacks (particularly with housings produced before the 2000s, aka "Vintage Blacks") have a small following, but that's really it.
OEMs are only very slowly catching up to this, but they are. A few months back we even had the first OEM board with Zealios switches!
ThereminGoat coverers new switches pretty extensively: https://www.theremingoat.com/
Bouncy switches are a real problem with third-party switches as well, even though cherries generally don't do that.
Or put the numpad on the left side of the keyboard if you're right-handed. I don't know if that exists?
A right-handed friend of mine straight up switched mousing hands after I suggested it as a joke. I think he still mouses with his left hand to this day. I tried for a little while, but it was like learning to walk all over again and I couldn't get used to it.
As a relatively fast typist (~150wpm) the tactility and comfort of topres feel superior to me in every way. And oh man the sound - do yourself a favor and look up a video of a silenced Realforce or Leopold - they sound like gentle raindrops and are insanely therapeutic when working.
I wish I'd bought a silent one though, whenever I forget to mute myself on Zoom my typing is clearly audible. Not everyone appreciates the 'thonk'.
Boba U4 is a mechanical switch that gives an extremely similar feel to a Topre, but is dramatically less key wobble which makes a huge difference
I noticed how I somehow wrote alot faster on my old macbook pro, and not messing up that much.
So I was thinking about moving from mechs to something else. But perhaps i should try a "Topre"?
I heard a side-by-side of a silenced topre (realforce 87u) vs Matias quiet click, the the silenced topre is much quieter.
Are there any ergo topre keyboards out there?
Edit: Do not worry, assembling a keyboard from parts is childs play. There's not a lot that can go wrong, just be careful not to damage the circuit board, and check that it fits the case.
I can deal with a separate numpad, and I can use shortcuts to replace media/brightness/volume keys, but you can take away my arrow keys when you can pry them out of my cold, dead hands ;-) I'm not ready to go the chording route of something like the ErgoDox.
I found the Cloud Nine C989M, not hot-swappable, but ANSI layout only, no ISO, so it's out of bounds.
The Keebio has the Quefrency, which I can kit out with a separate numpad and wrist rests, but that's not hot swappable, and 1.5 to 2x the Matias Ergo Pro.
I think for now, it'll have to be the Matias, and maybe later I'll decide it's worth the investment to go chorded, or invest 4x what I'm used to (as opposed to 2x)
Good luck!
Quite an oxymoron here.
As an enthusiast who has built many keyboards, I wish the public could get easier access to more "boutique" switches. Gateron yellow (linear), Box Jade (clicky), and Zilent 67s (tactile) are amazing, but you pretty much have to be ready to build your own deck to use them.
Also, try Boba U4s, beats out Zilents at half the price, use the lower weight variants for more pronounced tactility.
I used the project as an excuse to learn KiCad and keyboards at the same time.
Fun.
It outputs ASCII for Apple I and other 8-bit home-brew machines. (It's why I built it.)
1. learn to properly touch type
2. Switch from slow, overheating Macbooks to a watercooled linux desktop.
3. Get a nice mechanical keyboard with cherry brown switches.
If you rent a server (real or virtual), whose software load you have control over, that's not SaaSS. In SaaSS, someone else decides what software runs on the server and therefore controls the computing it does for you. In the case where you install the software on the server, you control what computing it does for you. Thus, the rented server is virtually your computer. For this issue, it counts as yours
Want to be able to replace your keyboard, or get another one for the office easily? Buy a Cherry G80-3000.
Want to get used to something only to find it’s incredibly hard to find a second one that matches your muscle memory? Get an RGB Vortex racer 3 pro or an AKKO3068 with a custom run of SA double shot hello sushi keycaps in limited edition dat boi green.
Want something that you can place in a backpack and not cry about when one of the 1000 tiny little bits of plastic — all of which are critical to the keyboard operation — snaps off as you pull it out? Keychron K1 or one of its siblings. (And this isn’t a slur on the K1’s build quality — all keyboards are, by their nature, delicate devices.)
I own all of the above and more. That’s not a flex. I’m an idiot. If I did it all again I’d buy a six pack of K1s and stop there. Unrelated: can I borrow some money?
(You have a typo fyi: “there are mainly four types of switches: black, brown, green, and brown”.)
1. Wireless is kind of a rarity in the MKB landscape
2. It's one of the more inexpensive hot-swappable boards out there, which is a stellar feature if you want to try different switches but dont want to buy an entire new keyboard.
These are good, solid devices, with a nice response - however both are starting to give me double characters on some keys. I'm wary about popping the tops on the keys, and so far some good thumps / blowing out around the affected keys has resolved the problems. However, reviews around the net suggest this is a problem that tends to get worse with this model.
The Keychron is now on my shortlist once these Logitechs are unusable.
Consider next a keyboard with programmable firmware (QMK) so you can adjust and mitigate bounce in software.
I'm 6-12 months away from a follow-up purchase, but will tag QMK options for the next search.
A friend recommended Keychron. After 6 months of using the K1, I'm not sure I could ever go back. I've bought a case for carrying it around, because as another comment mentions the keycaps are prone to coming off in my bag.
I have the red low-profile switches, and they're not as quiet as a membrane keyboard, but they're not loud enough to annoy the only other person I share a work/living space with, so that's all that matters.
The wireless is definitely an important feature for me as well. My Macbook Pro is already a dongle party without needing to plug a keyboard in as well.
It's not as low-profile as the Magic Keyboard 2, but it's a tradeoff that I'm prepared to accept. It's well and truly earned it's place in my backpack.
It works fairly well for me, but I find it needs a wrist rest.
However, I would love for there to be a "autonomous" wireless option. Bluetooth works OK on both my MBP and Linux laptop. But I can't use it fully under Linux, since I have full-disk encryption and so need a keyboard during the early boot stages. Also, my main computer doesn't have Bluetooth...
All in all I'm not disappointed, I wasn't looking for a wireless keyboard and knew it was bluetooth only.
Is it really $50 for a hotswap with double shot keycaps and a set of switches?
The G80-3000 comes without NKRO, a very bendable case and PCB-mounted rather than plate-mounted switches.
A Leopold (for example) is much more pleasant to use and not so exotic that it's impossible to obtain a replacement.
Gone are the days of Cherry having the only quality switches, now they're just mediocre slightly over-expensive switches.
Stuff like T1s, anything Gazzew puts out, etc. are not much more (or even cheaper) but give a much more enjoyable experience. Actuation point, tactile bump, and spring weight are three very easy to explain concepts that let someone go out and find a switch that's perfect for them
I both love and hate this mouse. It’s fixed my RSI but it has been unreliable and limited keyboard choices. Also, I can hear coil whine when I use it wirelessly!
HAVIT HBKV390L Kailh low profile blue switches
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0722GG88M
Also, this guide seems to be a rehash of what was available 10 years ago. It would be nice if you covered some of the newer options. Personally I dipped my toes in the water for the first time about 6 months ago and didn't recognize anything that was actually on the market compared to when I bought my first board with MX Blues back in 2010, and this is more or less the extent of the knowledge you could get back then.
Also I agree with your second point. If nothing else, it should be mentioned that you're more likely to see Gateron/Kailh in mass market boards these days. They do use a very similar color scheme which makes it easier for beginners though.
I was amazed at how much different the black switches felt. Pressing them a few times felt good, but when I actually tried to work with it my hands got tired really quickly and it became distracting.
The K320 with silent reds is now my go-to board, except for a wireless Vortex Tab 75. I'm currently waiting on a Tab 75 with silent reds, and I hope that will be my One True Keyboard.
I think it goes to show everybody is different and has different habits.
I find reds to have just the right pressure.
when i first got my MX Brown keyboard i was making typos all over the place. i wasn't used to how little i had to apply pressure to actuate a key. over time, i got used to it and i forgot i ever had that problem.
i remember when i see people who've never used Browns before sit down and struggle in the same way i first did.
Maybe it’s just me, but while I have never had a problem with a rubber dome board, I have had to clean/adjust/replace cherry switches on every board I’ve put a decent amount of use into.
1. Buy mechanical keyboards with click sounds, preferably blue switch ones.
2. (Optional) tweak keycaps
3. (Optional) tweak customized keyboards
4. Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said. Then proceed to buy one, and couldn't be happier
5. Actually, I could be happier because I don't care about keyboards anymore - my favorite is a silent red switch one because it's doesn't draw attention (both mine and others'). Also never go back to keyboard forums or subreddits.
But switches... I'd love membrane switches from a Thinkpad x220 or T410. Maybe I should buy a dead one just for keyboard, and reuse the keys :)
But I also quite like not having to hit the keys because they're stiff. I have a mechanical with Gateron browns which is silent enough for when I'm alone. Whenever I switch back to my MBP (2013 model, so "old" keyboard) I always miss keys because I don't push hard enough on them. This even happens on my work HP ProBook, which I had always considered having very "soft" keys.
But I think the difference between mechanical and "soft dome" is that even though the latter are soft, it's an "on and off" affair. When you start pressing you have a lot of resistance, which all of a sudden disappears, and you can't stop the finger until you hit the bottom.
On my mechanical, it takes me maybe a day or two to get used when I switch back, but then I'm able to type much more softly. Not sure how this affects my typing speed, my feeling is that I type about the same. But it's much more comfortable.
My favorite dome keyboard right now is the MS Sculpt, but I would love a similarly-priced (~€100), similarly-shaped mechanical.
My current configuration has the softest MX keys I could find (like 30g) for all keys but the 8 keys on the home row where fingers sit at rest.
These home row keys are NovelKey Box tactile keys, something like 60g. They are heavily tactile, but not noisy.
The trick is that I can leave my fingers on these stiffer keys, relax them, and the keys won't press under their weight. I never have to remove my hands from the keyboard, they are always ready to type without staying tense.
I learned to touch type on a manual typewriter, so 'soft' switches tend register if my fingers twitch.
But I think it's related to the "on / off" thing. Usually my hands rest their weight on the wrist-rest, but if I happen to shift the weight towards the fingers, I'll feel the gaterons start to move and have the time to stop. With the laptop, on the other hand, I don't feel anything and when I do, it's too late.
Also, wanted to mention ergonomic layouts - would love for that space to be more mainstream! Some really cool stuff out there; I'm looking forward to getting a 3D printer someday and building some Dactyls.
I have been extremely impressed with a heavy linear switch (Hako Clear - 75g). It has a bouncy feeling if you learn not to bottom out.
https://kono.store/products/hako-clear-switches-10-ct
But I took the plunge anyway as a typer first gamer second.
It’s been great reds are easy to type on. In fact I can only get over 100wpm on my red switch board. I wonder why this myth perpetuates!?
I got an IQUNIX F96 with reds. It’s been great.
I ended up with realforce rgb and don't care about the rgb, except it's really nice to have a lighted keyboard at night.
I don't think there's an RGB PFU, is there?
I added the little topre foam surround damper things and it was kind of expensive, but made it a lot more comfortable (and maybe quieter).
Those were the days when simply using a computer or touching a keyboard was a rush, computers were rare and everything was so mysterious. Now they are commodities without much poetry in them. So I want the poetry back.
Curly cable keyboard and everything
That said, it's nothing like the rubber dome pieces of crap we associate with membrane keyboards; its durability and keyfeel are still legendary. The membranical design may have contributed to its durability by making it less susceptible to dust and dirt.
They're not cheap.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3699296A/en
The behaviour is described by catastrophe theory [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory
Commonly referred to as getting old.
I agree. I'm less and less interested in shiny things as I age, and more interesting in getting home safely.
Relief only came when I bought a Das Keyboard III with heavenly Cherry Blue switches.
I'm still rocking that board today, nearly 13 years later.
[1] https://kubami.com/articles/split-keyboard-build/
Gotta admit - the DM cases look like a bear to solder in.
Hope you didn't burn too many fingers! :-D
No, I hated my HHKB.
Edit: Also, do I still need to lube them? I remember HHKB felt slightly "scratchy" by default. Some people would also say that cherry-likes also needs to be lubed but my Zealios boards feel awesome as-is.
https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/keyboard-quantizer
I have one I love, bought it like 10 years ago. When I tried to buy a second one this year I had the bad surprise to discover they're not available with French layout anymore.
Anyway, some steps you forgot: the search for the best ergonomic keyboard and key layout.
Best keyboard I've ever used.
A.K.A. recovering addict.
For me it's a Filco Majestouch TKL with Cherry Rex MX Silent switches. Relatively fast typist (130-150wpm) coding/emails most of the day.
Anything louder just wouldn't work given WFH constraints.
1. Skip your 1,2,3,4 and just get am inexpensive Cherry MX-Board
2. After several years, realize that I'm not really happy with keyboard because it boosts my bad posture. So I see if there is a split keyboard that suites my needs.
3. Damn, I need to test switches (luckily a friend has a nice selection of testers).
3. I think I might prefer tactile, but I don't want to blow the money on an expensive split keyboard to learn I don't like tactile - so better go with hot swappable switches.
4. Realize the exact board I would prefer doesn't exist.
5. Do some research on firmware, keyboard matrix circuit,...
6. Use the opportunity to learn kicad over eagle.
Started with 6. yesterday. Actually it's not that complicated, I'm more afraid of hand soldering 100 SK6812 Mini-E and 100 kailh sockets than of the rest.
the sad part is, I don't even like RBG on computer gear
Sad part for me: TIL that most keycaps with "shine through" need the LED above/north of the switch (else the LED mostly blinds the user), which means I need to rotate all switches by 180 deg. But the GMK caps (which are considered some of the "best") are known to cause trouble with that orientation. And some switches might be feel different as well.
1 https://imgur.com/gallery/IBScxqJ
Sold off every keyboard except one with sentimental value. Typing this from a macbook keyboard.
And you can pry my 40% split ergo out of my cold, dead hands. I don't care about Topre, just give me nice linear switches and a layout that won't kill my wrists and didn't originate in a prehistoric era when it comes to computers.
2. Buy Topre Realforce, fully satisfied for switch
3. Buy split mechanical keyboard, found split is really mandatory
4. Find best switch, but not satisfied as Topre
5. Wait for split Topre forever
Epomaker makes a more affordable but equally as great Topre clone, compatible with MX keycaps: https://epomaker.com/collections/niz - I have one and got nothing but good things to say.
The one I'm typing on right now I've had since 2013 (changing key caps once in a while) and as I'm working from home, my private other one is close by.
I do have a few more (I think 3 others? [0]), but I've not found something to replace my daily driver and I'm not actively searchign. I'm not completely averse to building one at some point but I don't see the need, it might be a fun (expensive) project.
[0]: https://f5n.org/blog/2018/mechanical-keyboards/
The feats of mechanical do appeal tho, and I fear what happens when they broke - but none of the switches could come close to this typing experience, and all I tried were way too loud.
When they went out of production I stockpiles four and I'm on my last pair (home and office)
I had a mechanical keyboard before these were fashionable, but are honestly too loud to use in a shared environment without feeling like amasshole.
Oh and there's also the fact that cherry stuff have ludicrous prices for what what they are and what marginal improvement they offer. Heck, most of them are still in the straight slab form factor, it's clear they mostly appeal to nostalgia and not actual ergonomics.
There's no objective criteria what's ergonomic, different people have different opinions.
Once upon a time, I found a new job where people were using some MS ergonomic keyboards. I tried to adopt for a month or so, then I asked for another keyboard, with traditional form factor.
I do agree however that some of the ms ergonomic keyboard went far too overboard with the concept to the point of being unusable. (I.e. those with the keyboard split in the middle instead of gently curving all the way across)
But the good one are are way better than the straight slab.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
> the amount of wirst bending to move sideways across a straight keyboard is a known finite quantity
That amount is not a universal constant. I have large hands with long fingers, and I’ve played piano when I was a teenager. I don’t bend wrists to type stuff, at least when using furniture which suits me, and a full-sized desktop keyboard.
> those with the keyboard split in the middle
Indeed, it was one of them.
The options I found were
- something with laptop-style keys, which I find very uncomfortable to type on (I borrowed an MS Sculpt for a day)
- a split, membrane keyboard, which (from reviews) often seemed lacking in build quality
- a split, mechanical keyboard, either manufactured or as a DIY kit, and either a standard layout or something "weird".
I chose the third option. It was easy enough to ignore everything covered in LEDs or with loud switches. I chose to assemble a kit, as I hadn't done any electronics for years.
A month later I saw a Kinesis Advantage II visiting an office. That looked like a very good option too. I would probably have chosen that, if I'd seen it myself before deciding.
(I also checked with my colleagues, and no-one is bothered by the sound -- it's within the range of all the other "normal" keyboards in the room.)
edit- Holy shit, I guess they aren't. $500 new?!?!?! Glad I have a spare...
It's also super macro-able with Karabiner, far more than 4k on Mac, if you're into that.
I sold my "mechanical" too. Current favorite is a Logitech K120, simple but it feels fantastic.
There seems to be no good keyboard on the market that does not have rainbow flashing LEDs under every key.
Can anybody recommend a good keyboard with adults as a target market?
I suppose it can have a caps lock indicator. But I can’t think of any reason I will ever need my entire keyboard to glow blue.
Does it at least let you disable the windows key or remap it as another Ctrl or something?
Edit: One more criteria: Ships quickly to France. This one is only available on Amazon US, takes 3 weeks to get here for an extra $40.
Here's a few you might like:
Leopold FC 900R, all black: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
Same board, two-tone: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
Filco Majestouch 2, all black: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
Durgod K310, two-tone: https://www.amazon.com/DURGOD-Typewriter-Mechanical-Interfac...
They always use the most ridiculous rainbow pattern in the product photos to emphasize that the LEDs are there, it's pretty funny. I don't know a single person who actually uses a rainbow setting.
That said I can give a more targeted recommendation based on what size of keyboard you like to use.
Beyond that you're looking at either custom builds or Topre boards
I don’t get it. Am I the only one who doesn’t want colors on my keyboard?
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
Got mine in old school IBM grey. It does have accent LEDs built in but they are off by default
Candykeys is a good supplier if your in euro space
Somewhat cheaper than these approaches is to go for a split keyboard, and 'tent' each of these halves. Ergodox is probably the most popular of keyboards like this; but there are smaller/cheaper keyboards like the Corne keyboard.
The final picture is to a site with more traditional ergonomic keyboards, I haven't added these individually yet.
https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
[0] https://imgur.com/a/dKCrqIF
If this is what you want to spend your spare time discussing and buying sure, but let's not propagate any pseudo scientific facts about the superiority of mechanical keyboards in any regard. I've only seen people slow down typing in these clackety things going from an apple keyboard and I don't want to be in any zoom meeting with these folks either.
1. Split-key keyboard. Got one when I was getting RSI issues in my wrists. That keyboard really did make a difference.
2. Butterfly keyboard on the Macbook. I hated it. My typing precision suffered. It's certainly subjective, but I was dropping my A's everywhere.
Other than that, my current mechanical keyboard has been mainly just a "it feels nice" thing, not a "I'm a better programmer because of it" thing.
It’s been really fun. I love using it.
I guess I did have an old IBM 386 in the early 90s and that had a kinda mech board.
My first mech is this: https://iqunix.store/products/f96-coral-sea-wireless-mechani...
https://www.keebtalk.com/
Much like the quality of a photographer is quite independent of their camera (in fact, the easiest way to insult a photographer is to tell them "wow, what a beautiful picture, what camera do you have?" ), I don't see how a keyboard can make any difference in the quality of the stuff I make. What am I missing?
I actually chose the camera I use for a similar reason. It doesn't have the fanciest electronics, but it has all the important controls on physical dials which make it more pleasant to use.
It's the same reason I have a plant on my desk. I like to look at it. It doesn't make me smarter, but that doesn't mean watering it is a waste of time.
It will depend on the switch, but personally on cherry blues and browns I can type while looking away from the keyboard (or screen) with basically 0 typos. On cheap keyboards either I type harder (and slower) on purpose to be sure or I just miss keystrokes randomly.
I can get by with a rubber dome keyboard by if I just write comments like this one, or light office work, where I see immediately what I type, but certain tasks don't have visual feedback (or you just look elsewhere).
In my case, using Vim in normal mode (command chains aren't usually seen until they execute), taking notes off meetings/presentations, doing translation work, adapting code snippets from elsewhere, and refactoring code benefit greatly from touch typing.
Same, but you might want to look into "gamer keyboards", those are usually easier to find. I ended up buying one of those from Razer (this one: https://www.razer.com/gaming-keyboards/Razer-Huntsman-Tourna...) that serves the purpose just fine and I can't say I have any complaints. (Though I obviously have no point of reference on how it compares with other mechanical keyboards.)
Pretty sure I could shave off $50 of the price of a new one and resell it to some teenager if I ever wanted to.
The quality of a photographer may be independent of their camera but I guarantee professional photographers don't use cheap shitty cameras.
Edit: Tradition dictates a car analogy, so - when I bought my first car I couldn't understand why people thought disk brakes were better. I mean, you can lock the wheels with drum brakes so they're equivalent, right? Then when I got my second car with all-round disk brakes I was retrospectively horrified that I'd ever trusted my first car's brakes with anything.
Of course, a year later when I was more confident and started testing the limits of my second car, I found out the difference between disk brakes and racing brakes...
Typing is just more fun on them. It's similar to having a favorite coffee mug for drinking coffee.
If you want a standard keyboard with a standard layout or something similar, a cheap rubber dome keyboard is going to work just as well as my $600 keyboard. If that's the type of keyboard you want, the reason people like them is because they think they sound nicer, feel nicer, and in many cases look nicer. They also have better built quality and people appreciate well-built things.
However, there are also situations where people are getting tangible benefits from mechanical keyboards. Some people don't have much desk space, so you can get a smaller keyboard and save room. It also makes them more portable if you feel like taking it with you.
Another tangible benefit is programmability and the use of layers. Some people work faster and more efficiently with a smaller keyboard with multiple layers. Another reason to use layers is for different use cases. I can have one layer programmed with a bunch of hotkeys for Photoshop, another layer for just normal typing/computer use, and another layer setup for gaming.
Another thing to consider is ergonomics. I 3d printed a case for a Dactyl Manuform and hand-wired my own customized, split ergonomic keyboard. After switching to it, the tendonitis in my wrist cleared up.
So, there is value to be found. However a lot of the people that want mechanical keyboards just want something that feels like it is a quality device. If that's what you're looking for, you can get something that will likely be the nicest keyboard you've ever used for $200 or less. Once you get to the $500+ mark for an entire build, you are venturing into the territory where its more of a fashion accessory. People want cases made by certain designers and while in some cases they have better features or are machined to a higher standard, you quickly run into diminishing returns.
IMO if someone wants to get into mechanical keyboards, its hard to beat the standard model of GMMK keyboards for the price. You can get it for $60 without switches or keycaps. At that point pay $30-40 for Box Jade switches if you like clicky switches, $70-100 for zeal helios switches if you like smooth linear switches, or $50 for aliaz 70g tactile switches if you like MX browns. After that spend $30-50 on a cheap but decent PBT keycap set. Finally, do about 10 minutes worth of simple modifications to the keyboard and you'll end up with something that gets you 95% of the value you'd get out of a $2000 keyboard at 1/10th of the price.
https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform
I originally got one, as it was hotswap and almost as cheap as a switch tester. But it compares well with say my Ducky.
I got their new "Pro" as a secondary keyboard. Its really nice, however, unlike most of the reviewers I didn't like the polycarbonate plate. I put the stock aluminum one back into it because the polycarbonate one flexes so much the contacts on the switches won't stay in the sockets. Still once that issue was resolved its a great keyboard with a ton of cool features at a pretty affordable price (relatively).
>I originally got one, as it was hotswap and almost as cheap as a switch tester. But it compares well with say my Ducky.
My original standard GMMK ended up being a better keyboard than my first custom kit I spend over $300 on. For some reason my linear switches felt smoother on it, I had less issues, and the build quality was solid enough.
1 https://imgur.com/gallery/IBScxqJ
A "special" keyboard can offer you a lot if you have an itch to scratch. Typing faster, relieving pain, automating sequences, enjoying the clicks, fast focus in low light, no mirror vibration in low light conditions, compact package, ruggedness...
As a side note, photographers are really picky about their gear :)
I could feel the early onset of what could have become full blown carpal tunnel early in my career; since switching to mechanicals I have had absolutely zero problems. A Cherry keyboard isn't that expensive and will last forever. For me it is a very worthwhile investment in my health and the longevity of my career.
And yet you'll have a really hard time finding a professional photographer using a cheap compact camera or their iPad to do their work. Just like you'll rarely see a professional developer writing code in Notepad.
I can type just as fast on a standard $10 keyboard as on my custom one. But on mine I can type more accurately, more comfortably for much longer periods, I can change the layout at any time as it's fully programmable, and at the same time it feels nicer. Why would I not use it?
So I sort of moved from thinking I liked laptop keyboards, and hated mechanical ones, to appreciating the qualities of a good mechanical keyboard.
I used a mechanical keyboard (mk for short here on out) for a while after being loaned one by a Mechanical Keyboard Zealot coworker. (he was actually super laid back, and would just lend out keyboards to people :) )
After that I bought a Corsair keyboard because I wanted to get a mk as easily as possible and didn't want to try to decode the mk subreddit. Then that started to "break" (just needed cleaning, whoops, I gave it to my nephew to go with his parents' xmas present of a gaming PC) and I got myself a Ducky mk.
I also tried the ErgoDox but was getting frustrated with it during a crunch time at work, and put it aside for the ducky. One day I want to try the split keyboard again.
As a bonus, the magic keyboard's lower profile means that I don't have to use a wrist rest when I use it, unlike all of my mechanicals, even though I've got the lowest profile available mechanical.
They're extremely well engineered keyboards not worthy of your hate.
There's no proof it's true. It never holds up in studies, and if it was really true these KBs would have stayed mainstream dominant.
It's a weird internet subculture, just like lots of other stuff. It's about having something fancy and/or unique and showing it to the world.