This seems like a pretty myopic view. I'll take Minecraft (aka building virtual endless Lego) any day over what passes for children's TV programming these days.
Aww, I'm sure a child would have plenty of content to enjoy in 2013-era Minecraft Pocket, but it's a shame they disabled survival mode, I didn't realize that.
> "I feel like most people on this site could afford a small gaming machine, though."
Always check if one of your local universities has a "University Surplus" store or similar. Many universities try to recoup some of their expenses by selling their old computer (and other) hardware when they upgrade, and it's usually ridiculously inexpensive to find a decent PC tower that you can toss a hard drive in and have a mostly pretty tolerable little gaming rig. A couple upgrades later and it can be a totally tolerable gaming rig. I've found many decent bargains at my local University Surplus store in the $50-ish price range for a working starter tower with motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc.
These days many TVs have an RGB input among the many input options, and many PC graphics cards have an HDMI output (which of course nearly all TVs these days have at least a couple HDMI inputs if not more), so yeah. "That's not very challenging to set up." indeed. Plug in a cable, and rock and roll… :)
Which version of minecraft can still be modded? I'm seriously asking cause my son has been playing it on xbox which obviously cannot be modified and I was trying to find which pc version to get but it's so confusing I am not sure which or if any official version still allows modifications
Well, the fact that there is still no official modding API tells you quite a lot about how much modding there would be if the Java version didn't exist.
The largest modpacks seem to be sticking to 1.12 for at least a little while longer, due to heavy code organization changes in 1.13, but you can easily play stable modpacks running on at least 1.16.5..
None of these are officially allowed mods, for that stuff you need to go to resource packs and/or data packs, which provide a sanctioned, but (AFAIK) is more limited ability to extend the game.
Look into the FTB modpacks (or darkosto’s modpacks like skyblock or sevtech) they (like most modpacks tbh) come with a launcher that selects the correct minecraft version and assembles all the mods.
I’ve been running at least two modpack launchers, and playing around 5-6 modpacks in addition to vanilla since the start of covid and it’s generally quite smooth (had to restore from backups a few times, but the backups themselves were automatically created by mods included in the pack.)
Edit:
If you want an amazing experience from caveman to rocket scientist, try Sevtech: Ages.
If you want to learn how all these techy mods work, try FTB University (maybe FTB Academy first.)
If you want to play on 1.16.5 try FTB Endeavor.
If you wanna try a large stable ungated modpack, try FTB Revelation.
(There are lots of other modpacks that are great, but these I have recent experience with.)
Minecraft: Java Edition is what you're after. Depending on your child's ability or familiarity with programming, I'd also look at CodeKingdoms. I've found it's been an excellent way to introduce young children to programming. And with its structured "projects", there are clearly defined objectives with guidance on how to achieve. Likewise, they take care of hosting a Minecraft server and mod deployment. I was skeptical at first, but it's proven to be an amazing tool for my children.
You would be surprised at what you can learn from Minecraft. At age 6 my children knew that you made glass from sand, something I was not aware of until I was probably 10 years old. Even if it teaches them something incorrectly it gets them asking questions about how you would do that thing in the real world.
Multiplayer Minecraft is how I played with other kids from the neighborhood when ~7year old, except minecraft has better toy variety. Its a social game first.
One key point is that this is from the UK, and BBC CBeebies is a lifesaver. Perfect toddler-friendly television of varied and interesting decently-written non-claptrap with no ads that isn't there to sell you toys, that you can leave your kid watching without worries.
The article doesn’t even mention UK broadcast television content – it’s more about big-shared-screens vs small-personal-screens.
And the author is an American, resident in New York afaict. Even though the Guardian is a UK-based paper, not all it’s content is not exclusively UK-focused.
I'm glad I managed to go behind my parents' back and use the computer and internet when not allowed. Overall, I learned a lot more than I would've by just watching TV or being bored or whatever else those people recommend. I hope the kids whose parents read this stuff manage, too
Me too. Who knows if I ever would’ve learned how much I love computers if I wasn’t tinkering with the family computer trying to get a torrented game installed (my parents never paid for games because they thought they were bad).
The difference is, in 2021 internet is a wildly different and heavily monetized place with lots or perverse incentives. It is not the internet we've checked APOD on nasa.com
When I had to sneak internet use, I had to get my videos from AnimeMusicVideos.org (and wait an hour for a 3 minute Realplayer file to download.) I never used chat rooms so the only other thing I could do was browse Geocities.
YouTube existing at all changes the calculus for parents and children these days, I feel.
Not to mention how the internet and computers just work, now. I spent countless hours tinkering with settings and drivers and phone lines and Windows 3.1 just to be able to get online sometimes. A dial up modem and dodgy phone lines taught me a lot about how computers work.
We only let our children have screen time on non-school nights, so Friday from about 6 to 8, and Saturday from 4 to 8. They almost always choose computers over tv. Minecraft, digital art, etc. The rest of the time they play or read. The once a week trip to the library as become a core part of our routine.
Edit: these restrictions include summer. Same times.
Sounds like a very good idea. I’m not a parent myself, but I’d be worried the kids might get left behind socially in school if they miss out on certain digital content other kids talk about. Not supposed to be criticism, just a thought of mine :)
Youtube premium with kids pays for itself in the reduced spending/whining for things they saw on ads. Embedded advertising is another thing entirely. SponsorBlock is the way to go there.
Let’s not forget, though, that parents can be mouthpieces of propaganda too—religion, bigoted views, even preference for certain brands produced by giant corporations.
The premise of this whole article is that kids learn what you put in front of them, which I disagree with. They learn what they pursue.
I have been enjoying a technology arms race with my daughter. She likes full youtube for content that is still benign, but beyond what's available on the kids platform. She started finding ways to circumvent our time limitations at age 3 using Siri and Safari to bypass screen time, and later concealed that she had worked out my unlock password on mine. I eventually make another move to defeat, but I am secretly proud of her and now I'm simply placing another level in the big game.
The thing is, tablets and phones are interactive, TVs normally are not.
There are fantastic apps for learning on a tablet (reading, writing, counting, simple calculations, reading the clock, etc.) The kids love it to spend some tablet time and they benefit from it. And even if they just toy around in these virtual worlds (Tokka), it's much more creative than just watching the next episode of my little pony.
On the other hand, tv shows, like aforementioned, my little pony, gives them excursions into dramatic topics: friendship, betrayal, pride, ... Even the most trivial cartoon will have some form of story telling and I think kids need story telling that they choosen freely.
TV is th most passive medium, you can turn it on and let it fill your time with whatever someone else decides to show you, including adverts. Gaming is usually a conscious choice about how to spend your time and requires input and decisions from the player, the same is not true of TV. At least Netflix/prime etc require you to make a decision about what to watch.
There are tons of games these days, for PC, console and mobile, that are designed to just be time-sinks. MMOs, village sims (Harvest Moon/etc), Match-3, infinite runners... Even sports games and multiplayer shooters. They designed to be played for many, many, many hours without only slight changes most of the time so that you just keep playing. Yes, they're interactive, but you're doing the same thing over and over and it's largely non-educational, just a time-sink. Entertaining, but otherwise useless. They're the sugar of the game world.
I've played plenty of them myself, but there was a long time there that I played way too much of them. A great one will still reel me in, but I prefer experiences that have a built-in end now instead.
Anyhow, my point is that both TV and games can be things you can fill your time with mindlessly.
Huge plug for Daniel Tiger, the successor to Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.
Our kids (4, 2) love it -- it has great lessons, talks about the topics relevant for them, and never uses the tactics discussed eg overexposed colors, rapid cuts, etc.
I just typed 'Daniel Tiger' into YouTube to have a look and then I watched some Mr. Rogers samples. It really strikes me as nothing like Mr. Rogers. Daniel Tiger is animated, it does use fairly rapid cuts, the overall pace and feel is much less calm. Mr. Rogers has a peaceful adult voice, the effect of extended listening is a bit more like watching Bob Ross paint. It's soothing, relaxing, and calming. Daniel Tiger has constant loud child voices. Also, because Mr. Rogers is an actual human being with actual human facial expressions, he can provide healthy modelling to children for how to be a decent human being. Many children these days grow up in broken homes with parents who scream and fight and then divorce. Divorce rate is like, what, 40%? My parents certainly screamed and fought and divorced. But watching Mr. Rogers as a child gave me an important experience of a human who is Not An Asshole. Is there really some compelling reason to use the "successor" to Mr. Rogers as opposed to the original?
To me, especially as an adult, the in-person Mr. Rogers segments are irreplaceable. However, I absolutely hated the puppet sections as a kid, aside from the model train aspect of the trolley.
In comparison Daniel Tiger is much more accessible and offers really good tools for emotional regulation. The main gap is a kind of the ‘everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face’ problem— it’s very hard to use a relaxation tool from TV when the feelings are real and intense.
I remember we felt guilty that we sometimes sat our small children on their bouncy chair and let them watch the repeating intro from Super Mario Brothers or Mickeys Castle of adventure on the Nintendo or Megadrive console.
When they grew up they both went into games development.
I've been very impressed with the volume of quality shows for kids (mine are four and two) from different studios: PBS Kids -- Daniel Tiger (based on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood), Peg + Cat -- Amazon Prime: Tumble Leaf, Stinky and Dirty -- Hulu: Curious George -- Disney+: Bluey (I enjoy watching this one myself). Common Sense Media has also been helpful to find quality shows. I'd never choose TV as an educational tool over screenless options, but for those times when you need to have your kids occupied, there's good stuff out there and not all screen time is equal.
I'd probably rather have my kids play a creative game like Minecraft on a tablet than TV. I'd rather have them watch Pokémon on TV than YouTube Kids on the tablets.
TV is entirely passive. Games on the iPad are at least interactive, though games are not all created equal.
I have some concerns that touching glass all the time will be damaging for kids, as much as if not more than the lack of mental stimulation or social growth or physical activity. But I also think that encouraging creative play (lots of building with different materials), playing outside, role-playing and even being "bored" to invent new games and new play is highly beneficial. Reading and even trying to make up stories is also good.
The worst part of screen time is that it crowds out so many other beneficial activities, but I'm not convinced that it's horrible as a "treat" alongside those activities. It's probably better than zero stimulation or interaction at all.
> Research shows that children under the age of five have an exceedingly challenging time learning from a 2D screen and translating that into the 3D world without help
Numbers and letters are 2D. Any word on learning about 2D objects on a 2D object?
One word for those with young kids: Numberblocks[1].
It is one of the best-constructed things I've ever seen: constant amazing songs; great animation; and it teaches kids numbers. No violence/slapstick/jump cuts/toy empire to buy all of. Just amazing.
80 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 147 ms ] threadSo maybe get the Xbox version of Minecraft—or the Raspberry Pi version—instead of the iOS one.
I feel like most people on this site could afford a small gaming machine, though.
Always check if one of your local universities has a "University Surplus" store or similar. Many universities try to recoup some of their expenses by selling their old computer (and other) hardware when they upgrade, and it's usually ridiculously inexpensive to find a decent PC tower that you can toss a hard drive in and have a mostly pretty tolerable little gaming rig. A couple upgrades later and it can be a totally tolerable gaming rig. I've found many decent bargains at my local University Surplus store in the $50-ish price range for a working starter tower with motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc.
None of these are officially allowed mods, for that stuff you need to go to resource packs and/or data packs, which provide a sanctioned, but (AFAIK) is more limited ability to extend the game.
Look into the FTB modpacks (or darkosto’s modpacks like skyblock or sevtech) they (like most modpacks tbh) come with a launcher that selects the correct minecraft version and assembles all the mods.
I’ve been running at least two modpack launchers, and playing around 5-6 modpacks in addition to vanilla since the start of covid and it’s generally quite smooth (had to restore from backups a few times, but the backups themselves were automatically created by mods included in the pack.)
Edit:
If you want an amazing experience from caveman to rocket scientist, try Sevtech: Ages.
If you want to learn how all these techy mods work, try FTB University (maybe FTB Academy first.)
If you want to play on 1.16.5 try FTB Endeavor.
If you wanna try a large stable ungated modpack, try FTB Revelation.
(There are lots of other modpacks that are great, but these I have recent experience with.)
Multiplayer Minecraft just looks like crack for ADHD children.
What makes it addictive? The social aspect?
And the author is an American, resident in New York afaict. Even though the Guardian is a UK-based paper, not all it’s content is not exclusively UK-focused.
YouTube existing at all changes the calculus for parents and children these days, I feel.
They don’t need temptation to eat/get garbage thrust upon them by high production value propaganda from giant corporations
/rant
I have been enjoying a technology arms race with my daughter. She likes full youtube for content that is still benign, but beyond what's available on the kids platform. She started finding ways to circumvent our time limitations at age 3 using Siri and Safari to bypass screen time, and later concealed that she had worked out my unlock password on mine. I eventually make another move to defeat, but I am secretly proud of her and now I'm simply placing another level in the big game.
There are fantastic apps for learning on a tablet (reading, writing, counting, simple calculations, reading the clock, etc.) The kids love it to spend some tablet time and they benefit from it. And even if they just toy around in these virtual worlds (Tokka), it's much more creative than just watching the next episode of my little pony.
On the other hand, tv shows, like aforementioned, my little pony, gives them excursions into dramatic topics: friendship, betrayal, pride, ... Even the most trivial cartoon will have some form of story telling and I think kids need story telling that they choosen freely.
I've played plenty of them myself, but there was a long time there that I played way too much of them. A great one will still reel me in, but I prefer experiences that have a built-in end now instead.
Anyhow, my point is that both TV and games can be things you can fill your time with mindlessly.
They are learning very fast.
And if that’s too little screen to share comfortably, you can use a PC…
Our kids (4, 2) love it -- it has great lessons, talks about the topics relevant for them, and never uses the tactics discussed eg overexposed colors, rapid cuts, etc.
Mr. Rogers sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tkJduDu1JM
Daniel Tiger sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08BrNDkJjw
Bob Ross:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLWEXRAnQd0
In comparison Daniel Tiger is much more accessible and offers really good tools for emotional regulation. The main gap is a kind of the ‘everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face’ problem— it’s very hard to use a relaxation tool from TV when the feelings are real and intense.
TV is entirely passive. Games on the iPad are at least interactive, though games are not all created equal.
I have some concerns that touching glass all the time will be damaging for kids, as much as if not more than the lack of mental stimulation or social growth or physical activity. But I also think that encouraging creative play (lots of building with different materials), playing outside, role-playing and even being "bored" to invent new games and new play is highly beneficial. Reading and even trying to make up stories is also good.
The worst part of screen time is that it crowds out so many other beneficial activities, but I'm not convinced that it's horrible as a "treat" alongside those activities. It's probably better than zero stimulation or interaction at all.
Numbers and letters are 2D. Any word on learning about 2D objects on a 2D object?
It is one of the best-constructed things I've ever seen: constant amazing songs; great animation; and it teaches kids numbers. No violence/slapstick/jump cuts/toy empire to buy all of. Just amazing.
[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/shows/numberblocks