Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds (cnn.com)

That just sounds like people in their 20s in general, even without weed. Marijuana might make it seem worse because stupid ideas sound much more profound when we're high

> consistent arrogance and self-importance.

Would you rather have people demoralized and hating themselves? I think we have quite enough of that already. God forbid an unaccomplished waggie enjoys life and likes who they are. Somebody put these uppity proles back in their place!

I've had my weed phase between 16 and 19 and I dont know. There is a sort of arrogance that comes with ignorance in general that subsides as you learn the vastness of what you'll never know.

I suppose the intersection of ignorance, criminality and drug consumption may make you think that because they smoke, they exhibit the other traits, but it could be the contrary.

You need a bit of arrogance to think cannabis is on your side and you can dominate it, as I witnessed myself when I started stumbling as a teenager.

My experience with the substance is similar to yours. I’ve started again occasionally and see that the experience differs depending on the strain. I do get paranoia that wears off; there were times where I’ve experience schizophrenia like symptoms; where reality seems off or my perception of it changes temporarily until it wears off. Hopefully I don’t have early onset of the disorder.

Regarding your friends, is it possible that the behavior you are seeing is when they are under the influence and not during sober?

It is entirely possible that this is a misunderstanding of their true feelings or intents. To quote Kat Williams "Weed has a chemical in it called F*k it..."

Maybe when they use they are not having the same anxious feeling that the general public feels and they do not react to others who otherwise might be perceived as "more important" than them. This would appear to the person who typically views themselves as "more important" as arrogance or self importance...when in reality they are just mildly happy and don't care at that moment about the typical societal norms and ranking.

More than likely they are just going about their own business and not paying attention to how you are reacting to it. Every life has value...every person is equal.

There is the persistent question: does this attract people who are a certain way or does it transform some people into being that way. But let's be clear, schizophrenia is not a personality trait.

Yes, I've noticed something simila, although way I phrase it is I noticed among high marijauna users from teens to twenties was what is a sense of delayed maturity. This overlaps with the attributes you described but it also felt like they weren't able to accept the increasing responsibility to themselves and others that comes with growth out of adolesence. I accept this is just one lived experience and there are other possible confounding factors, but I've definiutely noticed it.

You've hit the nail on the head with my experience. I have noticed this with a brother who smoke daily.. I never really put it down to the marijuana use entirely, but more of an aversion to any kind of confrontation/disagreement that might make him second guess himself etc.

Personally I can't smoke it anymore, I get super anxious now and nervous. I don't enjoy it, but I can see why some people who enjoy it would rather avoid any kind of mental doubt/disagreements.

Same observation. I also smoked weed in my teens and early twenties and I remember it making some of the most banal horse shit ideas seem profound, or like I really understand how the universe clicked together. I bet hanging out with a bunch of stoners steeping in my own bullshit for another decade would make me a(n even more) pompous ass too.

My experience is the exact opposite:

1) I would not suggest that marijuana use correlates with any particular behavior very much.

2) The only thing I have noticed in common among some heavy users was stereotypical stoner behavior, primarily forgetfulness and absent-mindedness. They are usually aware of this, which means it does not present as anything remotely like arrogance.

Ask yourself why people smoke weed in the first place. It isn't because they're temperate and psychically/spiritually/morally in order. Weed stupefies and dulls a person to certain unwanted feelings, like guilt or anxiety. That isn't any more medicinal than alcoholism.

In line with that, if what you write is true, it would be consistent with the idea that they have vices which cause them suffering which they then proceed to numb instead of dealing with the vices. So if they suffer from envy and pride, this will make them miserable people, so they smoke to numb the suffering. It's basically a way of coping with the consequences of denial about those vices: an intentional disintegration of the intellect to prevent conscious realization of one's vices because they can bear down on one's conscience. The only true way out is moral reform, but if you don't want to repent and face the consequences of repentance, if you are a slave to your pride and to your passions, then you will look for something else to kill the guilt and the pain.

> there's a sense of superiority that seems to crop up among them

the directionality could be the inverse: e.g. insecurity driving people to social overcompensation as well as cannabis as a reprieve or escape from their anxieties

My experience is opposite.

My experience with cannabis use using a simple activity.

Sober, I can clean my office without much thinking and if I had to repeatedly do it, I’d probably do it the same fashion every time.

On cannabis, I’m able to see what I believe to be the more or most efficient way of cleaning my office, garage and rooms. I could probably come up with a few ways or road maps for doing so.

I don’t know what it is. Maybe there’s a higher level of dopamine from using cannabis that influenced me to have so much attention and focus on such a menial task.

I have been told that I’m usually not there mentally and never arrogant; and my friends are pretty outspoken.

> consistent arrogance and self-importance

Unfortunately, these words are vague and will only facilitate people projecting their own definitions onto them in order to either support or deny your claim.

If there is a CEO making 500% more than some engineer, and some engineer complains about that, then someone may say, "Hey that person is just some engineer, how self-important and arrogant to complain to the CEO like that", but for me it's self-important and arrogant for the CEO to think the pay is proportional, and brave and commendable for the engineer to speak up.

I have known many assholes. Some were teetotalers and some used cannabis.

Be careful to let your own self-importance and arrogance allow you to think you can or should outright label someone else, or explain another's behavior, especially by pointing at only one facet of their life that you happen to be privvy to.

I take the position that it’s your biochemistry reacting to them.

What words you label it as feeling like are subjective.

I notice people from all walks of life can feel entitled, and narcissistic. I’m sure some have been stoners.

I think what you describe is pretty common in humans, weed or not.

What I've seen in weed users (myself included when I was in my 20s) is a tendency towards magical thinking and enjoying/accepting fantasies.

> they may be contributing very little to society (or maybe a lot), but regardless there's a sense of superiority

A sober individual's brain is operating on standard (often societally installed) reward mechanism, including "succeeding" on certain self-evaluated measures like "contributions to society"

It's commonly said that weed makes you "OK with being bored". i.e. standard reward mechanisms mentioned above don't really matter much when you're high.

It has nothing to do with narcissism or sense of superiority as you call it, just that their reward mechanism doesn't include things like "how much am I contributing to society". Apathy is a better word for it.

That's just society these days...

Actually I think you have a point and it probably stems from the way in which MJ modifies your dopamine system.

In any case, the reason I ultimately gave up smoking it is it makes my overall psychological health worse. I take a more cynical and negative view of things, even if it makes me mellower and temporarily happy. It affects my memory and my motivation, even as it increases my interest in things(so it slightly helps with ADHD, but effective net benefit to my job is zero). It also costs a hell of a lot of money unless you can grow it yourself these days(thanks, legal weed).

Smoked for 16 years constantly, quit for 2, resumed a couple times to help with various issues in mid life, but at the end of the day I quit because it's just not in line with my goals for my life. Weed helped me stay in bad life situations and compromised my ability to plan an effective way of changing my circumstances. It works for some people, I get it. My friend is a paraplegic and loves it for pain. I love the benefits to joint pain and general mid-life aches. That pain relief is what led me to never really dealing with my back problems until now though.

Honestly I've noticed the opposite. The pot smokers I've known (which there have been many) have been some of the coolest people. They've been very friendly and giving, and definitely not arrogant or self-important. Maybe it depends on the area you live in and types of social circles you're in?

What an elaborate way if saying weed smokers are lazy bums.

Have you considered you attract a certain type? The long time smokers I know live remarkably normal lives. Kids, jobs, etc

I could certainly be accused of haughtiness when someone made a snide remark about me using marijuana. This is because I got fed up with arrogant people shitting on me when they found out I use it.

In my experience it is those who love to flout their sense of superiority by shitting on users who are arrogant. But shit can flow both ways and when I'd point out that they too use "drugs" they'd get very defensive.

Back in the 80s my cocaine using friends loved shitting on weed users. "It makes you dumb" was one of their favorite cut downs.

My alcohol drinking friends who didn't smoke weed loved to cast the aspersion that weed smokers were "drug users". When I started pointing out that alcohol was a drug too they all very loudly denied it because couldn't stand the idea that they were "drug users" too.

And along with and within those two groups are those who do prescription drugs. It was pretty strange to be accused of being a "drug user" by people taking codeine and Xanax and Quaaludes, ect.

When I pointed out the serious side effects of alcohol, both personal and to our society at large as compared to weed smokers they started shutting up about that when talking to me.

Since Colorado legalized it those kinds of encounters have been far less common, and I've certainly appreciated it. And because of that I'd probably be far less likely to be accused of being arrogant nowadays.

I'm not a psychologist, but I think narcissism and self-importance simply stem from a small world view.

If your main hobby/recreational activity in life is smoking weed (certainly not judging anyone) then you'll likely only associate with people who enjoy the same things, if anyone at all.

This leads to a very narrow world-view where you're the center of that world. Going out and meeting people, doing different activities, taking on new jobs and roles, going to school and getting an education all really help to humble people and make people realize that most of us are all very similar in our pursuit of happiness.

I think part of that isn't the symptoms of the drug but the culture surrounding it. In most places its illegal or at the very least frowned upon, so being one who does this regularly makes you perceived by some parts of society as some sort of black sheep. People wear the black sheep badge proudly and can be arrogant and in your face about it. Just look at how techies act online. Smoking pot, like knowing stuff about technology, makes you 'in the know' relative to the rest of society, and can make you feel superior that you are taking part in something that most people will never or might outright refuse to experience.

Even in parts of the US where its been legal to smoke pot for some time like California, the social stigma of meeting up for drinks at a bar regularly and meeting up to smoke pot regularly are not equivalent. Your employer might even drug test you still.

Reading this article made me recall an incident back in art college. A mature student asked if I smoked cannabis, I said I do. There was another mature student in the room with us. Upon hearing my confession she stared at me with a very serious expression, then lunged forward at me and pushed her face into mine. I was so taken aback I nearly fell off my chair. I had never met this woman before, we were never introduced and I haven't seen her since.

I would argue this woman was sufficiently arrogant that she thought it was socially acceptable to invade my personal space because I was a stoner. Perhaps I myself was more arrogant when I was younger, in the spirit that user warent mentioned below. On the other hand, I'm not the type to spontaneously invade the space of others.

I can only provide a single data point, but I used to smoke a lot of weed for a pretty long time, then stopped about 12 years ago, and one of the changes I noticed was that I became much more able to accept responsibility for my mistakes instead of blaming everything wrong with my life on others.

After I stopped smoking, I talked about this a friend who also quit weed around that time, and he said it was the same for him. (Okay, so it's two data points.)

Make of that what you want, but there is a correlation. That doesn't mean weed turns people into assholes necessarily, but it can certainly amplify preexisting tendencies in that direction. I'm pretty sure the same goes for various other drugs as well - I never spent time around cocaine or methamphetamine enthusiasts, but I've been told, some people have a tendency to become real assholes on cocaine. And of course there's alcohol, which definitely helps all kinds of unpleasant personality traits to float to the surface.

> there's a sense of superiority that seems to crop up among them all

As a Canadian where weed is legal, I can say I've not had this experience at all. A lot of folks here use it, at all ages and all personality types. Very unusual for me to meet someone who uses it and for them to strike me as any different than the average Canadian.

I noticed the opposite. In my 30s now and most of the people I know who smoke a lot are pretty relaxed and the complete opposite of a narcissist.

Yeah this is often the debate. Many schizophrenic people self-medicate with drugs and alcohol before they've been diagnosed, so it's very hard to get a clear picture.

The "component cause" makes sense... marijuana and other psychedelics don't necessarily cause schizophrenia in most people, but for some people it may serve as a trigger. There's some evidence that trauma in childhood may have a similar impact.

I'm curious about alcohol and tobacco usage as well. Tobacco usage in mentally ill has generally been higher. It could simply reflect over all trends in substance choices depending on availability. So many variables unaccounted for.

I have long thought this for not just mental disorders...but also the long standing view that Marijuana use causes laziness or "makes you stupid". Perhaps these people have other issues they are self medicating for or have a higher probability of using illicit substances...for whatever reason they may be using it makes it easy to skew numbers to make it seem like the substance use is the cause, but to the user it may feel like the solution.

Like cigarettes. It seems like it could be both self medication, but also have negative side effects too. Benzodiazepines are my favorite analogy.

One of my high school friends developed severe schizophrenia in his 30s. Given hindsight it's clear to all of us that know him that some elements of it must have started all the way back at middle school. He was very into hallucinogens and doing his art, the themes of which are directly in line with his current delusions.

Or maybe both are happening.

Some people like the high from THC, which might make someone go in the direction of psychosis, it can be very stimulating.

For people whith a background of psychosis, they might like the CBD part, which makes them relax and feel less stimulated and aroused.

I don't have links but read a lot on this years ago. There were multiple UK studies that connected genetic predisposition to mental health issues to increased drug use. They're just self medicating until it doesn't work anymore. IDK why it would be dramatically different for non-genetically predisposed victims.

IMO, drug use is a symptom and not the cause. That said, we didn't have 75% THC vape back in the day and now everyone is doing CBD with wonderful new Delta-8 and there's not a shred of research on it.

Untreated neuro-divergent people tend to use recreational drugs for medicinal purposes. And psychoactive drug usage is directly linked with the early onset of otherwise dormant schizophrenia, as well as a myriad of other mental disorders.

There is no science to state that psychoactives cause these mental disorders. In fact, current medical science states the opposite, that psychoactives do NOT cause, but exacerbate, certain mental disorders.

Considering that both psychoative drug use and mental disorder rates are on the rise (some would argue due to improved screening, treatments, etc) I'm not sure how anyone could draw a conclusion from this.

If they want to prove that psychoactive use can cause mental disorder, they should approach it from a bio-chemical perspective.

Can I ask a follow up question; how would a study similar to eones like this one rule out getting their causation backwards?

A lot of marijuana smokers like to pretend weed smoke is somehow less harmful than any other smoke. It's still CO whether it comes from the tobacco or hemp plant. It's still bad and creates a tar residue in your lungs. Any time I bring that up, somehow I become anti-pot even though it's a genuine concern.

Edit: Carbon Monoxide, not Carbon Dioxide. And some additions since this is a tad controversial.

Here is one source - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3340105/

Marijuana inhaled is bad for your body. End of story. Let's not pretend like it's some panacea that the government doesn't want us to know about. It shouldn't be illegal, but a lot of people on here lie to themselves that somehow the harmful effects of CO aren't bad just because it's marijuana. I feel like there is some major cognitive dissonance among pot smokers equivalent to religious people that get upset when you say there is no god.

Maybe the people I've discussed this with are not representative, but it seems to me it's widely known that weed can lead to an anxiety event, and psychedelics are sometimes a frightening experience.

Usually you'll be back to normal the next day, but will have had a memorable experience, and sometimes mushrooms produce long-term relief from depression.

I'm definitely not an expert with this, but it seems to me it is often a good idea to take a chance with some carefully chosen drugs.

It's the same for any chemical. For the vast majority of people penicillin is a life saving antibiotic and for a small percentage it is quite deadly.

I suffer from chronic anxiety and the tales of weed just relaxing you sounded like a magic pill. It was one of the most intense anxiety inducing experiences I’ve ever had. Very unfortunate, but some people seem to manage it well.

If you can barely manage anxiety on your own, weed is is a force multiplier for your fears.

However, I’d be willing to try again in the future as it becomes more available in vape form and try micro dosing it. The smallest hits to see if I can get a modest calmness.

nah. it’s not a common sentiment.

people talk about set and setting + harm reduction over and over again.

If you’re gonna do a drug and be reckless you’re gonna have a bad time.

Just as a counter-anecdote. There's depression and anxiety in my family tree, and it has caught up to me too in the last year. Among other remedies, I've experimented with small doses of edibles (they are legal where I live). I don't particularly enjoy the high, but for me it does take the edge off the worst times, without side effects. It lets me at least relax/sleep. (It kind of takes the edge off everything, which is why I don't like it and don't do it recreationally.)

I think this is very much a YMMV situation. I certainly don't recommend it as the only solution. It has been useful to me as a medicine, though, in the same way I might take a cough suppressant during a serious cold.

A past colleague of mine told me a shocking story. He was a heavy weed smoker (multiple times a day) and one evening couldn't find his weed and as he was searching for it, became increasingly furious.

Eventually, he was so angry that he blanked out. He told me he found himself in a hyper lucid state, but in absolute darkness and in a state of pure dread.

He felt the presense of millions of dead egos that were "roaming" like zombies in this strange environment. Some were screaming like their skin was being pulled from their body, some were tormenting others. A total nighmarish trip.

He was so shocked by this experience that he stop smoking pot that very evening and never touched it again.

Since we’re here I would like to see a study linking sugar to the increase of health problems (including mental health). Other drugs are small change compared to sugar.

    sugar sugar 
    call me late at night
    by daylight
    stomach busted
    not feeling right
    heart burnin'
    I need oxygen
    sweet and sour more addictive 
    than your oxycontin

Who doesn't know someone who went crazy from drinking? It's normalized, especially in the military it seems. A major difference between the long term negative effects of the two drugs is that alcoholics seem to mostly recover after some years of sobriety, but former cannabis users can receive incurable disorders like schizophrenia. More simply, the mental disorders of alcohol abuse resist being pathologized, we assign them sociocultural explanations like "he's going through a rough time." Meanwhile, he's clinically depressed, anxious, has mood swings, all direct results of long term alcohol consumption.

> of which the PI even calls for reproducibility

You mean like every study I've ever read? I can't recall the last time the conclusion didn't say something like, "In our study X appears to be associated with Y, but more research is needed to understand the relationship."

You're right, though, that this article leaves many questions unasked. We know that people who are schizophrenic are far more likely to smoke cigarettes, but there is evidence to suggest they're more likely to smoke before their first episode as well. So is tobacco causal? Probably not. Instead, there are probably precursor symptoms to diagnosable schizophrenia that drive tobacco use: anxiety being the main one. Anxiety and marijuana has already been studied with conflicting results, probably because it's hard to determine out whether people with anxiety are drawn to marijuana (or heavier usage) or whether heavy usage causes anxiety.

There are reasons to think marijuana use can cause schizophrenic episodes - sometimes a first episode - but that use may not increase the risk of developing the disorder when viewed in a 20-year window. In other words, it happens sooner. So according to the article the number of schizophrenia cases linked to cannabis use disorder increased by 4x. I'd like to know whether schizophrenia diagnoses overall changed significantly.

I am not saying there are no risks. But I am agreeing that the article does a bad job of analyzing the science.

The population level prevalence is where we should see this. If cannabis really did cause SCZ, as opposed to merely being self-medication, general drug use dysfunctionality, or possibly just accelerating SCZ onset but not increasing total cases, we should see incredibly high rates in recreational legalizing jurisdictions where prevalence is now a large fraction of the population. Instead, buried at the end, we get

"The findings could help explain the "general increase in the incidence of schizophrenia that has been observed in recent years" and provides some support that the "long-observed association between cannabis and schizophrenia is likely partially causal in nature," the study said."

OK then...

All PIs always call for more research. Its another way of saying I need more funds.

I’m upvoting this.

I believe your explanation on the strains are on point.

When using the vapor method, very high in thc, sometimes I do experience psychosis or schizophrenic symptoms. My perception of reality does change a bit during peak affect but disappears after wearing off.

When smoking raw cannabis the regular way, I experience a more calming affect; emotionally tolerable and focused mindset.

This matches my experience as someone who struggles with severe anxiety and intrusive/delusional thoughts. THC makes for a very bad time for me, but a high CBD edible calms down my mind and helps me temper those thoughts.

Don’t forget the terpenes! Terpenes play a big role in cannabis effects as well, accounting for the differences between sativa and indica strains.

Pinine and terpinaline for example are more likely than other terpenes to cause anxiety and paranoia at higher concentrations, meaning >1%. I don’t know if they contribute psychotic episodes though.

Editing your post to whine about the downvotes will surely get people to stop downvoting you. Well played.

>-- Edit: I have my own downvote brigade. Yay - Just seems odd that every post I post on HN gets down-voted.

Respectfully, I think it may largely be because your post has many odd grammar and spelling errors, and a confusing sentence and paragraph structure. As a result, the post is difficult and awkward to read.

I don't think the downvotes have much to do with the actual content of the post. The content of everything you said is obviously 100% correct. It's just - again, with all due respect - written in an especially peculiar and very grammatically incorrect way.

Many of your posts seem to be like this, and I think that's probably mainly why you seem to get downvoted often. It's not what you're saying, but how you're saying it. (If English isn't your first language, I understand that it's unfair, but that's just how people seem to react.)

I'm speaking as a medical student. And I can't speak for what it's like in the US - only Sweden. Here it's not uncommon for schizofrenic patients to self medicate with marijuana. I guess it increases their quality of life until they have just a little too much and end up having a psychosis. That said, at least among Swedish psychiatrists, it's well know that marijuana can trigger schizophrenia in people that are ~16 years old.

I had a girlfriend with a brother he was schizophrenic. He had a classic break with Ronald Reagan directly addressing him through the television and all that. Like most patients, he did not like the side effects of anti-psychotics. He tended to drink light beer all day. At some point he started smoking cannabis and said it was the only thing that had made the voices go away for him. However, this effect seem to go away with tolerance, which isn’t surprising. He also ended up hanging out with a different crowd and starting to smoke crack about six months later, which probably is related to how one was forced to access illegal markets that also sell other drugs to obtain cannabis at that time. Not surprisingly, crack was not good for his schizophrenia. Cannabis, however, seems promising. The way he described it is similar to my experience with pain relief from cannabinoids, which is the unpleasant sensation is still there but you don’t pay any attention to it.

No, but we are unlikely to find causation without initially noticing a correlation.

I agree, there's just too many variables here.

The drug itself also changed over the years with current breeds having way more active ingredients than the ones used decades ago.

To me it's about as strong as the correlation between schizophrenia and _any_ use of psychedelics. THC's effects have more in common with a psychedelic than they do an analgesic or stimulant. It's not a body drug, even if it sometimes makes you feel that way. If we legalized psilocybin nationwide, I would bet money that these kinds of studies would show "correlations" in schizophrenia use among those who have taken mushrooms as well. And they would probably be the similar, if not follow the same exact curve, as what we see for MJ.

> Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking marijuana regularly. If cases themselves rise, it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc.

I think this is a good explanation. It's also important to acknowledge that norms around marijuana use and the perception of schizophrenia and its symptoms have changed drastically in the last 25 years. So have schizophrenia treatments.

Older neuroleptics have severe side effects that cause permanent Parkinson's-like movement disorders and are responsible for lowering patients' life expectancies. It wasn't until the mid-to-late 1990's that the atypical antipsychotics were approved by the FDA, which had significantly less side effects than older drugs. And then it wasn't until the mid-to-late 2000's that those drugs had affordable generics. Several new antipsychotics were approved in the 2000's that have less side effects, as well.

Yea, this is a very bizarre framing. I understand that researchers hypothesize that a Marijuana-driven causal link is possible, but theres a well-established, strong causal effect in the other direction that first needs to be controlled for. In that light, the statistic is framed very dishonestly in the article.

(Though perhaps dishonesty isn't the correct word to use here: I don't have a high prior on the journalist even understanding this complaint)

Could you go into detail about "paranoid and narcissistic personality" specifically the narcissistic personality - I have not heard of that.

I get schizophrenia from smoking pot. But I also know people who get it who've never been pot heads.

Something about THC is at the center of this. And also something about age.

I used to be able to smoke as much as I wanted and just enjoy it, then one day it started making me crazy.. and I kept smoking for a few years and truly lost my mind.

I've heard this story countless times... something (usually around age 20) just snaps, and suddenly THC == paranoia.

> It could very well be that marijuana puts you at higher risk of schizophrenia

More likely, marijuana use accelerates the development of schizophrenia among people already at risk.

> it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc.

This is generally a valid stock response to these sorts of studies. But it strikes me as a bit unlikely that there was previously a large amount of undiagnosed schizophrenia.

(Unless we have broadened the definition recently).

Anecdote: My half-sister is a diagnosed schizophrenic and life-long weed smoker. It seems to me (and her doctors agree) that the two are absolutely related.

She was likely predisposed to schizophrenia (because of her father - which we don't share) but I often wonder if it would have progressed the way it did absent the heavy smoking.

I say this also as a pot smoker myself (but only lightly in the past decade or so). I have nothing against it, and used to scoff at those who were against it.

Now... I'm absolutely convinced that marijuana use can have absolutely catastrophic mental health implications for some people. I'm also convinced it can help people with certain conditions.

At any rate, it's much less benign than I long thought.

When this kind of thing has come up before ("pot causes mental illness"), IIRC it turns out more that people with schizoid disorders are self-medicating with pot before getting diagnosed, rather than having taken harder drugs, alcohol, etc. The classic reversed-arrow of causation.

Sorry, but the suggestion that marijuanna use leads to narcissistic personality disorder is absurd.

The study is also highly sensitive to the way drug use disorders are classified by behavioral health professionals, particularly due to the changing criteria of various DSM editions. I’d want to look at the underlying dataset to see if they’ve properly accounted for exogenous effects like that.

Either way, it’s not really a risk I want to take

There's a relationship between smoking cigarettes and schizophrenia too. I think this may be a case of people trying to self medicate for their conditions.

> "There has been emerging evidence of an association between tobacco smoking and schizophrenia spectrum disorders (SSD). Two meta-analyses have reported that people who smoke tobacco have an ~2-fold increased risk of incident schizophrenia or psychosis, even after adjusting for confounding factors."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6255982/#:~:tex....

Additionally if you use these recreational drugs, you are constantly hiding from law enforcement or are at least weary of it. You also try to hide it and it become a permanent secret you carry around. I think this could certainly influence paranoia.

To my knowledge schizophrenia is hearing voices and similar hallucinations, which are beyond trust issues.

But from experience with weed smokers, I certainly have the impression that there might be some truth to the story.

People with Schizophrenia may abuse drugs (at up to an 8% rate for marijuana).

:O

> Cannabis is more and more cut with synthetic cannabinoids which are notoriously bad for the brain and mind.

Do you have a link to support that?

I've known a few people that this happens to. Not sure it's the same as long-term schizophrenia but there's definitely similarities.

It would be interesting to know more about the hypoglycemia link. I contracted type one diabetes as an adult, somehow, and was hesitant to try anything for the first time after that including alcohol or cannabis. I wear a continuous glucose monitor and as far as I can tell, cannabis has no effect on my blood glucose.

It could be a stimulant drug and situational interaction

Interestingly, it's sometimes recommended to quickly consume a lot of highly sugary foods if you feel panic/anxiety from cannabis. (And I've found that this has worked for me. Plus you get the bonus of them tasting especially delicious.)

How do you develop a stronger sense of self?

Alcohol consumption is not without risk. It literally kills your brain cells and has many negative side effects associated with it. Alcohol is widely produced, distributed and consumed. To me this comes down to having the choice. Do the research, document the possible side effect, give me the choice is I want to drink/do the drug. Also, anecdotally based on my own life experience, I think overall marijuana is less harmful than alcohol.

"One of her doctors insisted the cause was marijuana..."

"I knew for sure he was wrong, but he refused to even consider it... [even with family history]."

I have seen stuff like this a few times, and it is usually the sign of a bad doctor. If there isn't a positive test for something and you're ignoring other evidence, how can you say it absolutely is one thing or the other. This is extremely common with vaccines when providers say it is completely safe and write off adverse events as unrelated without any evidence to support the claim. Vaccines are generally safe, but adverse reactions can occur. If you have doctors underreporting to the VAERS system, then the system will not catch the rare events because the data is too incomplete to show significance.

Edit: why downvote? Here's a paper acknowledging limitations like under reporting. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15071280/

> "One of her doctors insisted the cause was marijuana..."

Anecdotally, this seems to be a common viewpoint among doctors. As soon as you admit to using marijuana, in any amount, then suddenly any health issues are caused by marijuana. Asthma? Caused by weed. Trouble focusing? Caused by weed. You vomited? Must be cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome.

Thank you for sharing your experience and I'm sorry for your losses.

I'm taken away by your story and would like to connect, please. I have a similar experience and I'm working on a research project in AI that is related to this. Please drop me a note me aee at berkeley edu I couldn't find your contact info in your profile.

Odd question: is your first wife Jewish (specifically Ashkenazi)?

Hyperemesis is definitely real, and eventually affects 1/3 of heavy weed smokers. A lover of mine had to self-diagnose because their doctor wasn’t aware.

The crazy part is as that smoking weed ameliorated the symptoms in the short term, so there is a strong psychological reinforcement to keep smoking even though it is actually causing the background symptoms.

This was discussed a lot in the cannabis community a few years ago though the topic seems to have died down. The consensus among people heavily involved in cannabis is that it is related to overuse of neem oil, an organic pesticide. Some growers had been using neem very liberally without keeping in mind that the active ingredients are toxic to humans. The toxicity of neem seems to be in line with the effects of cyclical vomiting/hypermesis. So, it has been a thing to shun and shame people using that pesticide for a few years.

Don't worry, the Authors have an agenda too: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abst...

Rolling papers might be a better medium.

Too many people might be at risk of contentment and their own personal happiness if we let up now.

Sneering at the article doesn't really make your case more convincing. Instead it just seems like it provoked an overly-defensive reaction.

Psychiatrist (and addiction psychiatrist in training) here. I agree that calling substance use disorders a disease is highly problematic. However, I think that while the majority of people who use substances don't have a problem, there are many people who use substances in a maladaptive (or disordered) way that dramatically impacts their ability to function, and we need a name to describe that. Substance use disorder is a pretty neutral term, and much better than the older "abuse" and "dependence" terminology for a number of reasons. The wording isn't intended to suggest that personal responsibility isn't required--and any treating clinician would quash that idea right away. It's a way to describe patterns and determine what might be helpful for an individual. It's certainly imperfect, but a much better description than past nomenclature.