Ask HN: A Well Funded Competitor Has Launched Before Me What Should I do?

132 points by sadasdad324 ↗ HN
Hey Guys,

Obviously using a throwaway account but, I'm a well respected member on here with a few thousand karma (just to give you abit of info who I am).

Anyway, I'm in the process of creating a startup however, a well funded competitor has recently launched - a few million in VC funding with a strong team

I am just wondering what I should do knowing this competition is now around. I am aware of other similar competitors (although this is a new niche/spin on it so they aren't outright competitors) but this one was right out of the blue.

What should I do?

83 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 145 ms ] thread
Well, that is a really hard question. I think you should consider this:

- Do you have any way to make your company different? - Can you contact some respected member of the niche your company is aiming at, and convince him to start using your product, and endorse you?

Usually smaller companies can offer a better service, to a smaller niche of users, so you can focus in a small sub-niche of the customers, and work with them, that can work for you if you manage to stay small, bigger companies can't afford working with small customers, as they can't break the even point of revenue.

Try to stay out of any strategy that involves money, as your competitor has more resources than you. Focus on personalized service, if you can afford that.

Or, start looking for a funding partner.

Too many times I have stopped making something because well-heeled competitors showed up before I launched, only to see someone else come in later and eat their lunch. Maybe it could have been me eating their lunch, but now I will never know.

If they really are nailing the market then maybe you shouldn't bother, but usually you'll find they are doing an ok job but missing a LOT of things you might do better.

Hey there,

Firstly, don't be too concerned man. Watch the competitor to see how the market reacts to them. If they succeed, chances are better that you will too.

Keep in mind that lots of VC money does not necessarily mean a successful run.

First to market is a bit of a myth, you can do just fine if you don't get there first - just do it better than the rest.

Best of luck with your venture!

S

I stopped working on a startup as a similar thing happened to me, one year later they've had no traction and could have probably beaten them as I thought we had a much better solution. Don't think about anything other than is your solution better. They are still an early stage startup. Foursquare essentially beat Facebook places.
> What should I do?

Compete.

Every startup should expect a well-funded competitor to hit the space, both before and after.

If they are very successful and generate a lot of buzz, it may actually work in your favor to be the next alternative in line. If there's a lot of hype, their company can only be purchased once, but many may want to.

Of course, it's better to be #1 yourself, if you can manage that. But I don't know how much I would worry about competition.

Don't worry about competition. It's a good thing. It means you picked a good market. Focus on what makes you different and better.

Sounds like you may be a single founder. If so, find a friend or mentor who can help you work through the ups and downs. You're going to be discouraged a lot starting a business.

I went through a similar situation and solicited advice. Lots of people told me "know when to quit." I didn't, and I'm glad I stuck it out.

Hey,

Do you really know the competitor has the new product? Or is it just a press release. Many times, big companies do press releases of something or the other being released in the next quarter. That "next quarter" never arrives.

The important question is "more than the product do you have paying customers?" If so, don't worry. If no, worry!!!

Why not raise funding ? Given that your competitor has already raised funding, atleast you wouldnt have to convince investors about the viability of the concept.

If you were looking to bootstrap yourself and avoid dilution, perhaps it is time to rethink that strategy.

I think you should pitch your product to VCs (Explaining that it's a new market with really few competitors; BUT, still serious enough that there's already a team with million in funding.) Meanwhile, build your awesome team. Then, your competitor will come on HN saying: "Crap, I was first but a guy with a better product and an awesome team just got funded. What should I do?"
It proves your idea has promise.

Read this -

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/08/03/down-with-innovation-up...

Copy their best ideas, do the core things better, and kick their asses. Good luck.

agree on this. be remarkable. most likely you will approach it differently than they do. And boot strapping has its own benefits.
Thanks for sharing that link. Interesting to learn that imitation (when done well and with some form of twist) is not always a bad thing. We really do overvalue originality.
In VC parlance, someone else launching doing the same thing "validates the space".
Does it really? I always felt like people who I was working with used this to support bad ideas for startups. Do VCs really prefer "validation", or first to market?
good point, my startup is first to market, and do we still need validation ;)
Totally agree. I'm in a similar situation as the OP, and after the initial despondency found that the existence of a competitor is actually incredibly motivating.

Not only are things moving along faster now I have someone to benchmark myself against, it has really brought into sharp focus the areas I need to concentrate on. I've been able to learn from mistakes that they're making, rather than suffer the cost of making those mistakes myself. Overall the project is absolutely stronger as a consequence.

In fact, I'm probably more excited when they release a new feature than their average customer is.

Also, you can take risks that they may be unwilling to take. You don't have group-think to worry about. You can use tools & languages that it's too hard to hire for. As this is a PG site, consider functional systems. I'm a huge haskell fan myself, and holy crap is it faster to develop in, especially early on. In terms of productivity, it can be 10-15x. It's proven as such in my own work. How many devs do they have?

Look at who's funding them, perhaps try to infer some of their movements by the likely advisors they have. Ask around. Check out the founders' resumes. It's easier to get intel about a larger group than the plans of a single man. Check out what technology toolchain they're using, and find someone who's used it before, and/or other public systems that use it now. It may provide a useful source of likely avenues they'll take later (some APIs make some approaches easier), you may be able to predict them before they've even decided. With that in mind, choose your own toolchain and market focus accordingly. Are they going to have any nasty chokepoints later, in terms of necessary features that aren't supported by their toolchain, or performance bottlenecks that'll squash their scalability/skyrocket their costs for a while?

Also, if all else fails, you've got your brain just churning away at the problem domain all day. If you want to play dirty, take out some patents on some inevitabilities in that space. Hobble them early, force them into more expensive routes (some stupid bastards will even think it's an advantage that they can afford to!). In software, it's easy & tempting to go the safer O(N) route when a riskier O(1) will do (in effort -- say writing all your entity types by hand versus an automatic derivation mechanism). A patent threat can certainly push people in different directions early. In terms of productivity, that can be a 30+ scale factor. How many devs do they have?

Put out a blog & control the narrative. The more people they have, the more mistakes they can make at a time, the more datapoints you can pick from to form the narrative your way. The right narrative can help compensate for a lack of a marketing team. Consider reading up on Guerrilla warfare.

Also, you don't have to win the market. You can just stay alive & appear useful long enough to get bought by someone else who wants to compete against your opponent.

Yeah, a good part of this is way over the top, but maybe something will be useful to you :-)

This is great advice for me to hear, as I'm in a similar position right now. I've been considering obliquely slamming our competitor in a blog post, but I've held off because I don't want us to come off like dicks. Wouldn't I be better off focusing the messaging on how we're doing it right, rather than how they're doing it wrong?
You can define yourself and, through the remaining empty space, end up defining them. If you define yourself as "The simple, no-frills, easy way to Foo," for example, then you're defining your opponents as one or more of: complex, extra frilly, less easy.
Well said. It's better to leave things unsaid and let the reader make the logical conclusions. More salient that way.
Publicly slagging off competitors by name seems to backfire more often than not, unless you're Steve Jobs.

However you can talk about all the ways that X is done wrong without actually mentioning by name the competitors who are doing X wrong. Clearly explain the problems you see in 'the industry' and your solutions to them, but not the other people/companies involved.

Thanks for the advice - it's pretty much what I ended up doing. Snarky enough to be satisfying, but I buried the diss so it wasn't too blatant. :^)
I wouldn't go TOO crazy badmouthing competitors, as you may end up joining forces later on (through acquisition or partnerships).
(comment deleted)
Didn't stop OkCupid. In fact, they did take down the bad parts. Probably part of the acquisition motivation is that the competitor didn't want the bad facts to be available.

However, you should understand that they could do the same to you. In that case, have class and say "Thanks for the advice, <competitor>! 'Unfortunately we believe that's not the best direction'/'The users will appreciate it'"

"In terms of productivity, it can be 10-15x."

Any sources on this? Or is it primarily based on your own experience?

My own experience. Haskell's just fantastic that way. The type system, the libraries, and the tools really make you productive.
I'm curions about this too. Haskell is my hobby language right now, I'm still an uber-noob, but my impression is Haskell code is easily 10-15x more robust, but not necessarily more productive than cool-kid languages (Ruby, Python, Javascript).
The robustness of Haskell is one of the things that improves productivity; less time is spent hunting bugs.
Depends on what you are doing of course. But having an impedance mismatch between the language and the problem domain can make simple problems extraordinarily complex.
I would learn from them. I am sure they are going to make as many mistakes as they make great decisions. Having someone out there with funding figuring out the space can be a real advantage if you can learn from what they do and bring your own sense of the marketplace to bear. Look at Wesabe, who launched with funding a year before mint...
I have encountered a similar situation and here are my thoughts, just for your reference:

1. Is competition really bad? Not necessary. Some times competitions are good. As I was working on a product of a relatively new area. One of the problem was that people were not aware of the importance of the product. Our competitor had done a good marketing job, widely promoting the concept and got reported by several media. After that, we found it much easier for us to convince people of our product.

2. It's good to have a mirror. If you have got a competitor, watch closely what they are doing and try to learn from their experience. The two products might look similar at first but you might be able to differentiate from them after several iterations. If launching a startup is like trying out new clothes, it is much better to have a mirror.

3. You have to share the market anyway. You cannot be the monopoly, or even oligopoly. Sharing the market with your competitors is inevitable. Even if you were the first to launch, there might be strong late-comers. So do not panic when you see competitors coming.

4. Learn to differentiate. Tell the difference between your product and your competitors'. Trust me, there are no identical products in the world. Highlight the (even the smallest) difference and tell people why they should choose your product.

5. Focus on what your competitor might ignore. You should try out your competitor's product and record your experience in details. Then check the flaws you have found to see whether the same can be seen your product. This is an effective way to differentiate your product, especially your competitor is large and strong. If you cannot have more functions, then optimize your user experience.

6. Do not pivot so early. I wouldn't recommend to pivot right away. Even if you plan to pivot, please at least wait for a few months - after you have made sure that you have no chance. After all your team have spent a lot of time on your product. If you give up so easily, it is hard to cheer up your team for your new product. Do not simply give up, face competition and you will never regret your decision.

7. Any chance to cooperate? If you can cooperate with your "competitor", things would be easier. But this might not be a good choice since your competitor is well funded and two teams might not get along with each other. Also you might lose your control of your product.

Take it as confirmation that your market is there, and make sure you have a clear idea of what your differentiator is going to be.
Is this a social app? If so, you can win through the culture of the community that uses your app. Today, social is not as much about the technology or product, it is about the people that use it.

For example, I use hackernews not only because it is simple and easy to see others' contributions, but because of the content that people produce and the intelligent conversations the community creates on the site. That aspect of a product is invaluable and more difficult than any technology problem you will encounter.

Every good niche has competition. Being first to market doesn't mean much (remember GeoCities? Six Degrees? Friendster? MySpace? and these guys were in a space where the first mover has an even bigger advantage.) You just don't know who will win.

Killer features aren't usually obvious, except in retrospect. Google didn't know that its algorithm would make it king of search, or they wouldn't have tried to sell so soon, for so little. Facebook didn't know that real names and a clean design would get your grandma to sign up. And you don't know which subtle design edge will make the difference in your niche. Neither do your competitors (those you know about, and those still working on launching), or the VCs.

What you should be doing (launching and getting funding) hasn't changed one bit. I don't know the secret recipe for success, but I can tell you lots of ways you can fail. Not launching would be the easiest.

Look at Duckduckgo they have a competitor who launched years earlier and has a hell lot more funding.
Now that brings it home.
DDG may not be the best example depending on the field you're in - they use their competitors to provide a lot of their service and get their competitors to do it for free it seems. There aren't too many spaces where you can do that.

There's an aphorism that says "the second mouse gets the cheese" which I think means that coming second you can let the forerunner make the mistakes and learn from what they get wrong. This has a lot of mileage IMO.

Anecdote: When my partner and I started in business in a very fine niche, a largely new thing in our country, a competitor opened in our town within a km of us between us securing premises and opening them. Thankfully they determined for personal reasons they couldn't continue and left us with some extra customers ... don't pin your hopes on your competitions CEO getting pregnant though!

VC money, a good team, or a great product won't guarantee success. One (or two) factors alone won't ensure success. It's a sum-of-all-the-parts thing. I think an important question to ask yourself is: how committed are you? Not so much: then spent your time, money and energy elsewhere. Very: then do a detailed (honest) analysis on your product and theirs and if it still makes business sense, keep at it. Sometimes it how much pain you're prepared to endure... or is that running? :)
Congratulations! The cash they raised is your free market research budget. Their VC is paying for many of the mistakes you will not have to make.
Stop stealth'ing and start building awareness. Ride their we-were-funded marketing with your own I-am-here-too blitz.
(comment deleted)
Give up now.

I know I'm going to sound like a dick, but if your immediate reaction wasn't a strong feeling to out-smart and out-maneuver your competitor you're probably in the wrong place right now. Starting and running a company takes passion.

This is great news. Somebody is spending huge amounts of money to help you figure out how to make money. Now your problem is much reduced: instead of doing all of it, you just need to figure out what they are doing and tweak the good parts and ditch the bad parts.

So how is their sales pipeline working? That's the key question. Where are leads coming from, how do they convert them, what are the major selling points.

Seriously, this is great news -- assuming you can get inside their OODA loop and wreak havoc. It's like having a big brother who made all the mistakes so that you don't have to. Requires thinking a bit differently, but you should be able to manage that. Good hunting.

Ahh, OODA. That kept me on top in 2 vs 1 games of AOE2 against my colleagues for a long time. They started beating me when they got better and I just couldn't think fast enough anymore.

For anyone in any kind of competition I would highly recommend checking out the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

This sort of thing can have a chilling effect, but keep in mind that if they're "well-funded" they will need to have a profitable business model much sooner than you will. Hang in there!
Stay your course, wait for them to make a mistake, pray that they do.