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Ask HN: Has the iPad Won the Tablet Wars?

20 points by fbnlsr ↗ HN
Lately I've been thinking about getting a new tablet for the house. The last one I had was a Nexus 7. It worked flawlessly and I really liked the format.

I started looking online and it seems that the only ones still alive are the iPad and the Kindle Fire.

Are there any viable alternatives or is it a done deal?

85 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 151 ms ] thread
dusted
I thought the tablet fad was over already, I remember considering getting one back when they were a big deal, but now it seems phones grew to the point of being actually usable, considered buying a samsung note or similar sized phone instead?
DrBazza
I guess it's up to the person.

I use my iPad for gaming, reading technical books and docs, and watching movies and TV on the train. The phone is pretty shitty for those in my opinion, and I don't want a tablet-like phone in my pocket. I don't think the tablet fad is over, because I'll be in the market for another tablet when this one is end of life.

hoseja
Fad? Is a want of a book-sized display/media consumption device somehow invalid?
dusted
It's not invalid in the least, I've just not seen it make the impact I thought it would, it didn't become the ambient computing device it was somewhat set up to be.

I'm not against it at all, it just seem to me that all the initial trouble are still there, the lack of tactility, the lack of good input (maybe the apple pen and s-pens are a move in the right direction, but the problem remains largely unsolved).

8fingerlouie
There are still some dinosaurs like myself that prefer phones to be easily portable, and a larger screen for consuming content.

My phone is for calling, texting, quick lookups on the internet, and various small/quick tasks.

My iPad is for longer content consumption sessions, like reading news/books, watching movies.

If anything got replaced here, it was that the ipad replaced my laptop for 90% of the stuff i used to do on that.

ggm
Samsung are pretty good but the integration inside the walled garden of ios/osx is amazingly good. I'm android-osx but help osx-ioad-iphone users and its exceptionally self consistent.
rzzzwilson
The iPad is a nice piece of kit, no doubt, but the walled garden was too much for me. I'm currently using a Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 Lite. Unfortunately, like all tablets, the narrow escutcheons make using it in bed a real annoyance.
hardlianotion
I looked up escutcheon and I still don't know what annoys you.
rzzzwilson
The margins around the edge, between the device edge and screen edge, where you can hold the tablet. These were large in the original iPad making actually holding the device and not accidentally touching the screen easy. Since then the iPad has shrunk the non-display edge width considerably, and other tablets always had narrow widths. Looks gorgeous, but makes actually using the thing annoying. You can hold phones in one hand from behind and there's no problem with edge-to-edge screens.
maxbaines
The Ipad (mini 2021) is the only Apple product I now use. When looking to replace my previous with a non apple alternative nothing was even close when considering performance, screen, build quality.

Currently for me yes Ipad won the Tablet wars.

samwillis
> thinking about getting a new tablet for the house

Interesting that’s how you are approaching it. We have found that tablets are very much more a “household” or “family” device than a personal one.

It’s the one serious frustration with the iPad, I wish Apple would acknowledge that this is the way a large proportion of their customers use them and enable multiple user profiles (like that have on the Apple TV).

my123
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secd99f373ef/...

They also have iPad multiuser deployed today for businesses… but not for consumers.

samwillis
Exactly, its not like there is a fundamental problem with iOS that makes it difficult to implement, they use that feature for schools too.

I don't usually like to take a cynical view but can only think that it's a purposeful decision by Apple to compromise the iPad in that way to encourage families to buy multiple devices.

AnonHP
> We have found that tablets are very much more a “household” or “family” device than a personal one.

> It’s the one serious frustration with the iPad, I wish Apple would acknowledge that this is the way a large proportion of their customers use them and enable multiple user profiles (like that have on the Apple TV).

After buying a few iPads over the initial years because of hardware improvements, I decided not to buy new ones anymore until iOS (then)/ iPadOS supports multiple users on each device with an easy switching mechanism.

Maybe Apple thought, with its experience in the education market where multi user profiles were supported, that it wasn’t a great experience with its hardware (especially having to download data from iCloud).

But now that iPad Pro and Macs are using the same powerful desktop class chips (perhaps with some differences) and since iPad Pros also have more RAM, the only reason not to support multiple users is to make more money (the iPad is already a small player in Apple’s portfolio).

I’m still waiting for the support to arrive. Until then, I’ll keep using my old iPad Pro till it dies.

kcplate
That’s interesting. I find it very much a “personal” device. There would be a daily battle in my household if we only had one.

However, I wonder if you could use the new focus feature to sort of mimic multiuser. Not so much with data, but perhaps controlling apps for kids?

janandonly
I think the iPad did win.

But more importantly, if you have an iPhone and a MacBook, will you be using an iPad at all?

I used to only have an iPhone and iPad and yes, I used the iPad for all my studying and annotations and stuff (with an Apple Pencil), but since I’m using a MacBook Air I barely touch my iPad.

I guess if you have kids who want to play games an iPad is still useful?

gerikson
I have all 3, an iPad fills a niche for me (mostly reading books and comics).

I don't have the most expensive one, though.

rharb
I use my iPad as a second display for the laptop when portable, it's surprisingly useful.

It's also kind of nice for keeping a game of baseball or something going on while sharing audio output with the main laptop, there's almost no display lag.

luxurytent
Yup. This. I WFH like most of us these days and although I have a desk with separate monitor, I sometimes prefer to work at the desk in my bedroom or dining table. Just for a change of scenery

iPad separate display and Universal Control is magical https://www.cultofmac.com/765506/universal-control-is-magica...

iPad is also nice for sitting down and reviewing a PR, reading an arch doc etc

drcongo
I have all three, and the iPad serves its own functions. In particular I use it for making music, and vastly prefer that workflow to making music on the MBP. There's an incredible music app ecosystem on the iPad.
jeffwass
Which apps do you use on the ipad?
drcongo
Funnily enough, I posted a sort of list 40 days ago here [0]. There's way too many to actually list out in full though, and actually, depending on the kind of music you make, AUM should be added also.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29719019

fuzzy2
I have like a gazillion computers (desktops, laptops, tablets, phones). There’s the right time and place for everything. It’s just that tablets are perfect for consumption (reading books, comics, web pages, videos, …).

I was very skeptical in the past. Surely I wouldn’t need a “toy” like that. Then I got one from my employer (not even a good one) and it really blew me away, especially in comparison to the convertible laptop I had. Yes it’s “just a big phone” but that’s just the magical thing. It’s always on, it has a big screen and is rather lightweight. Battery lasts basically forever. What’s not to like? Laptops on the couch? In bed even? Small phone screens? No thanks.

gnicholas
One serious downside to the iPad (unless I'm doing it wrong) is that you can't hyperlink text in an email using the Mail app. I would love to use my iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard to do email, but since I send a lot of emails with hyperlinked words, it doesn't work for me.

The only workaround I'm aware of is that you can hyperlink a word in another app, then copy/paste it into Mail. That's too much of a hassle for me — I'd sooner use a different mail client and enjoy better search while I'm at it.

nicce
Using hyperlinks is a security risk for the receiver. That is probably one answer for the question ”why”.

Often it is recommended to not use hyperlinks, so receiver can see where they are going.

Hyperlinks are the most used tool for scammers. Of course, limitation in Mail app does not help too much.

kcplate
Also found that for all the protection that URL link checkers that practically every damn Exchange server is using nowadays are supposed to give me, they screw up long URLs with a multiple parameters often enough for me to notice and be irritated by it.
danaris
In my experience, if you just put the actual URL into an email, the vast majority of common email clients today will automatically turn it into a hyperlink.
gnicholas
Oh sure, the point is that I want to say "here are two examples" and have the word "two" and "examples" point to two URLs.
marban
The old saying "You don't gift an Android tablet to someone you love" still applies.
ikt
Did you just make that up...
theshrike79
I've switched two 60+ relatives from a cheapo supermarket laptop to an iPad + Chromecast combo.

Both are happy as clams. Zero support requests, FaceTime just works and they know they can just press the One Big Button to get to the start screen if they get lost. Combined with Chromecast on their old TVs both can stream anything to their TV for watching.

shantara
What is the situation with Chromecast support on iPad? I know that Youtube supports it, but what about other streaming services?
theshrike79
The app itself needs to support Chromecast, on the OS side you just need to give it the "search for devices on the local network" permission. No full screen casting or stuff like that, but most streaming apps work nicely with the Chromecast.

The best option would be to get an Apple TV, but that's a bit expensive compared to a 19€ Chromecast and has a remote that goes missing every 10 seconds.

taubek
Was there even a tablet war? Was anyone even close to iPad? I've had several Android based tablets and each one had its own quirks. With iPad you exactly know what you are getting into.
pjmlp
Laptops like the Surface.
taubek
Oh, yeah... Those were the nice ones I must admit.
kcplate
They always felt more like a laptop to me even as they got thinner and lighter. The touch interface always felt bolted on (probably because it was).
pjmlp
If you are on US most likely, outside US or countries with similar economies, hybrid laptops with detachable keyboards/touch screens running Windows have kept their kingdom, as Android tablets are mostly running phone apps on a bigger screeen and not everyone has disposable income for iPads.
mywaifuismeta
I'm in the market for a new tablet as well. I have a pretty old iPad that I'm happy with, but I really dislike the Apple ecosystem except for the Macbooks. The Samsung Galaxy Tab S8 should be releasing soon and that's probably the closest competitor. Other than that, yes, the iPad seems to have won.
rk06
For now, yes. Just a couple of weeks back, I was looking for a tablet with decent specs and a headphone jack and a fingerprint sensor (I don’t trust face unlock). And there were zero android tablet matching that criteria. While budget iPad line has fulfilled those requirements for a couple of years.

Now, There have been many android tablets released in recent years. And if you don’t have “peculiar” needs, you might find something worthwhile.

I do not like Apple’s ecosystem. And would prefer android ecosystem. But Apple has best hardware and offers twice the longevity of an android. So, I have chosen to use iPad

supernova87a
In what sense do you not trust face unlock?
nicce
You should not trust either in terms of serious security. Consider fingerprint or face as identifier or username, instead of the password.
hoseja
Something you know, something you have, something you are.
rk06
That someone else can put a tablet in front of me and it will unlock. And it’s effectiveness with beard, masks etc.

I have found fingerprint sensors to be both reliable and not easy for others to bypass

tjansen
For younger kids, the Amazon Fire 10 kids edition tablets are nice (nearly indestructible, cheap, parent controls and a lot of content if you subscribe to Kids+). If you have several kids, you can get 3 Amazon Fires for the price of an iPad. They are useful as long as kids don't need to use a browser, because Amazon's Silk is horrible. And you should probably avoid the Fire 7/8, because they are too slow... (haven't use the latest 7/8 models, but they still have slower CPUs than the 10 inch models)

But for adults, I don't think Android tablets are worth the trouble. iPads just work, while Android apps do not always work that well on tablets. Also, iPads are really fast. And while they are more expensive, they have a much higher resale value.

rbanffy
I got one (previous, non-USB-C) for reading magazines and my biggest complaint is that it's very heavy for its size. It feels much heavier than a 10" iPad and it feels very sluggish. The microSD card sometimes stops working (and since some apps were moved to it because built-in storage was running out), they become inaccessible). It's a good value for a quarter of what an iPad costs, but an iPad is a lot more than 4x more usable.
reissbaker
IMO, the iPad is really the best option — and other than that, I'm not in the Apple ecosystem at all, so I feel fairly unbiased. But in terms of build quality, responsiveness, and overall tablet-optimized app library, nothing else really comes close.

The Surface Pro line of hybrid laptop/tablets is pretty interesting as a lightweight laptop replacement with pen support, but I suspect that's not what you're looking for in a "tablet for the house" — the OS is definitely not touch-first.

tomp
Depends why you need it for.

If you need a phone in a tablet form, buy an iPad.

If you need a computer in a tablet form, buy Microsoft Surface Go. I give nothing but raving reviews for it.

darkmuck
I enjoy my Surface Go 2 but the battery life isn't very good.
boffinAudio
It has certainly won the content-creation/audio-workstation war. I don't know anyone who uses Android for music-making, but the growing horde of iPad-using musicians is impressive...
cgio
I got the Lenovo Duet chromebook for the little one and I was honestly impressed. For me, though, iPads have won me over even though I used to be a Surface fan.
dogma1138
Because at every price point other than $100 throw away/kids tablets they are the best option.

Even the cheapest iPad runs like and feels like a premium product.

You get years of software support, apps do just work and battery life is great.

The last Android tablet I had was a 2015 or 14 Samsung Note 10.1 it was awesome for the time but it only received updates for like a year and despite the pen and the rest it never felt more than a large and within 6 months laggy phone.

I don’t know if Android is better now but back then they had no fucking idea what to do with tablets.

You could download an app and you would have no idea if and how it would run, this is something I’ve never experienced with an iPad.

gbil
Quick search in EU and I can't find any ipad in the 100-200 Euro range, from big retailers maybe something 2-3 years old basic model on 250 Euro. Maybe a EU thing

In any case I wouldn't buy my children a device costing twice as much as a respectable Samsung tablet that will last them 3 years at least (counting security updates: https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb ) like Tab A7

dogma1138
No it’s not just an EU thing tho it might be a bit worse there (I’m in the UK myself) hence why I put the other than the entry/kids tablet price range in the beginning.

New iPads start at around $300(or £/€ since regional pricing is just the unit of account change these days) directly from Apple and at around $200 for a officially refurbished 1-2 year old device.

If I was looking for a £200 tablet I would get a refurbished 9.7” (2018/2017) iPad of Amazon. The 10” 2021 iPad is/was on sale on Amazon for £320 and that’s probably the best bang for buck you can get as far as tablets go these days unless you really need a large onboard storage. And that’s a brand new device.

gbil
This is the problem with generic questions, you write "best bang for buck" but for which use ? As I wrote, for a kids tablet, no thank you. For entry level user maybe, for someone wanting more again probably not.

But this is a problem with generic questions/statements, there is no "one size fits all" thing

dogma1138
It’s not a generic statement since I’ve literally stated in the first sentence other than for kids/throw away use.

If you are looking for a device that might end up in a dishwasher or covered with acrylic paint and glitter glue get an Amazon Fire tablet on sale, these are £/€60 new without adds and often go on sale below that.

Amazon also has dedicated “Kids Edition” tablets that start at £/€100 which comes with a kick stand and a protective case. These as far as I know come without ads and have parental control feature that are easy to use.

The latter btw is another reason to go for iOS devices if you are able and willing to spend the extra cash as Apple has actually decent parental controls for both the device itself and the content.

gbil
Isn't it generic to state "other than $100 throw away/kids tablets" or "the best bang for buck you can get as far as tablets go these days" ? There are different categories for sure: * kids/don't care use * generic use * artists * keyboard users * etc.

You are also making generic statements of feature set, even within EU not all features are available on the parental controls for the same device. But I think now we are a long way from the OP question

dogma1138
The iPad is a better device on every one of these points at pretty much every major price point beyond throw away devices.
AltruisticGapHN
iPads are GREAT value. I can still count how many iPads I've had since I got into it:

- around 2011 I had an iPad 2

- resold it half a year later, granted, because I wanted the new RETINA version ... which I used until late 2016 !! It was still usable for anything but browsing, when browsing the the 512 MB RAM wasnt keeping up with the bloated web, and it wasnt holding more than one tab in memory so it was becoming a hassle, otherwise back then all my RSS apps etc worked just fine

- then I bought an iPad AIR 2 early 2017, which I am still using today! I could probably get another couple years out of this one

That's 3 iPads over 10+ years.

Nowaadatys the iPad is also pretty much a PC if you connect a USB hub you can use a keyboard, a mouse ...

APock
> Nowaadatys the iPad is also pretty much a PC

This is completely untrue and the fact that people think being able to connect a mouse and keyboard make it a PC is appaling.

The complete OS experience is terrible for anything other than the most absolute basic tasks, and there is not hardware way around that.

theshrike79
YMMV and you do need to change your habits a bit, which is anathema to the HN crowd.

"It can't run my custom i3wm setup and doom-emacs and I can't even cargo install stuff on it, completely unusable!"

I could, and have, done my work just with an iPad and an external keyboard. Blink shell[0] to SSH into a remote environment. VS Code or a similar browser-based editor for code[1].

Of course a full 16" laptop would be better, but before the M1 the battery life was nothing near what the iPad could bring.

[0] https://blink.sh [1] https://vscode.dev

LinAGKar
So then you're still using a PC, but remotely
theshrike79
Cloud a.k.a Someone Else's Computer, yes =)

The difference is that I'm not lugging around a huge power hungry CPU.

kcplate
> The complete OS experience is terrible for anything other than the most absolute basic tasks, and there is not hardware way around that

Your opinion. If my work laptop dies, I’ll likely requisition an 12.9 IPad Pro with cellular as a replacement, and with my iPad Pro 10.5 for personal and will be the happiest person on this earth. It’s just the best and most trouble free device/computer I have owned and used in over 45 years of using all manners and flavors of personal computing devices.

gruturo
The iPad conquered the premium tablet market and left pretty much no survivors (if we count convertible laptops separately - but even if we don't, I assume they don't really make a big dent in numbers, esp. if we checked how many are actually used in tablet mode. That's just an assumption though - reader beware).

On the low end, I guess it's more of a mixed bag, with hundreds of models from hundreds of brands, some quite ephemeral or existing on Amazon/Aliexpress/eBay only. But indeed the kindle fire stands out for delivering amazing value for money - I have 3 at home (a 10inch, and a 2-for-1 8inch promotion they run periodically) and, while they are very, very clearly no iPad, they work remarkably well once you add the Aurora store to them (admittedly not the most newbie friendly operation, but most people can find a techie friend to bribe with a pizza).

If Amazon ever puts out one with a true USB-C (capable of video out, unlike current ones), I'll try going on a short holiday with only one of these, just to see how it works out.

If they make one which ships with Google Play Store/Services out of the box (or find a legal way to proxy to the Play Store through their own), I expect they'll sell well.

fmajid
The iPad created the mainstream tablet market.
creshal
There's some okay-ish Android tablets (Lenovo's Pxx pads, Nokia's new one seems promising, Samsung's if you somehow can stand their atrocious interface), but it has been less a war, and more the equivalent of the US Invasion of Grenada. Nobody really bothered putting up much of a fight.
cehrlich
There are still some not too terrible alternatives in the Android world, but overall yes the iPad has won the tablet wars.

What is a bit scarier to me is the idea that the iPad might win the general computing wars. I don't mind secondary devices being somewhat locked down for the same reason that I don't care if I can't install Linux on my microwave, but the idea that many people's entire computing experience nowadays happens on a platform that is controlled in the way that iOS is feels like bad news to me.

christophilus
I’m the same. I have left the Apple ecosystem for this reason, other than my iPhone. I must admit; the M1 is tempting me to join the dark side once again. And now that Linux is running on it…
beltsazar
The longevity of iPad is unbeatable, even by iPhone. I bought new in late 2016 the first iPad Pro 12.9" released in late 2015. Today it still works great without lags whatsoever. And it is still be supported by the latest iPadOS! My only complain is that the battery doesn't hold up as it used to be.
jsnell
For a reality check compared to the echo chamber, statcounter has the iPad usage share at 55% (and stable over time):

https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/tablet/worldw...

Analysts put the iPad market share at 34% in 2021 (modest growth):

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS48826122

(I don't know who buys or uses Android tablets these days; they were always miserable devices, and I got off that train somewhere around 2015. But it does appear that they're sold in greater numbers than iPads, and actually used a decent amount rather than just thrown into the bin.)

christophilus
I wonder if those tablet-based kiosks and cash registers count? Those seem to be mostly non-Apple from what I’ve seen.

Edit: I don’t think those should count, as I see them as their own category, not a tablet.

elp
It very much depends on which country you are in.

So for North America or anywhere with a high iphone usage it makes sense and the small amount extra for the iPad is completely justifiable, but I think in other countries it ends up coming down to price.

For the 3rd world Android phone usage is probably close to 90% so its significantly less likely those people will change OS for their tablets if they get any. Significantly lower salaries so that 30% extra for the ipad is a big one.

Then the $100 kids tablet market is HUGE. No one cares if the kids tablet is slow as long as they don't break/ are cheap to replace.

If you are using the tablet mostly for consuming (web, movies, reading) then the real difference in performance between the 2 systems is not really noticeable. The most noticeable part is the time for an app to start / switch after that performance is very comparable.