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Ask HN: Why is there no small Android phone?

191 points by fxtentacle ↗ HN
When I search for phones with 3GB+ RAM and <=140mm height, there's only iPhone SE, iPhone 12 mini, and iPhone 13 mini.

The fact that Apple released 3 phones in 3 years with this form factor shows me that it is a profitable market segment and that there is demand.

Why is there no Android equivalent?

https://m.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&nHeightMax...

226 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 260 ms ] thread
cybarDOTlive
i deleted my acc cause i got rated limited
fxtentacle
I need a working web browser and support for mandatory apps like online banking two factor.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
Ekaros
I'm personally much more worried about width not height... And it seems only Sony has some to offer.
fxtentacle
I like that I can use an iPhone SE with just one hand because it's short enough to reach the top with my thumb. That comes in very handy when you're carrying a sleeping baby.
ldjb
On my Samsung Galaxy phone, I can double-tap the Home button and it downscales the screen into the corner so I can reach the entire screen with my thumb. So there is a solution to that problem.

The main problem I have with large phones is that they won't fit into my pocket. Sure, I could get out the needle-and-thread and sew myself some larger pockets, but I shouldn't have to do that. I'd much rather just have a smaller phone.

adhesive_wombat
At least Huawei and Samsung have one-handed mode that shrinks the screen.

The Huawei gesture is a sideways swipe on the navigation bar (it shrinks to the side you swipe towards).

sofixa
I think it's an Android thing, I've also seen it on Xiaomi/Redmi and OnePlus phones.
password4321
The Moto G Power is narrow.

No NFC / wireless charging. $50 after Google Fi rebates, often out of stock.

robin_reala
ASUS Zenfone 8 is probably the closest mainstream Android phone you’ll get. It’s 144mm tall.

https://www.asus.com/Mobile/Phones/ZenFone/Zenfone-8/

Snuupy
Careful, lots of reports about bricked/being stuck in EDL. Have to send it back to ASUS under warranty to get the motherboard replaced.
kirenida
Reports of this have stopped on the official forum, but now we (Zenfone8 users) are stuck waiting for both a bugfix Android 12 release (still lots of problems with latest official release) or a new A11 update (latest security update is from November 2021).

All in all, it's a good phone, I'm happy with it (coming from a Huawei P10), but I'm dissapointed with the lack of official response to the ramdump/bricking issue and the lack of software updates, after getting regular monthly updates basically up to nov/dec. It feels like Asus basically gave up on the product.

Snuupy
Hey - I had a P10 too! :)

Ended up giving it away after custom roms refused to work on it and all the devs gave up on the phone because Huawei stopped allowing bootloader unlocks. I specifically bought the P10 because I didn't think that would happen, but what a turn of events. I have crossed Huawei off my list of phones to ever recommend/buy myself because of the bait/switch. Additionally (and you'll never see this in the reviews), the GPU on the Huawei phones were always terribly inefficient and ate through the battery like crazy. Unsure if newer models are like this as well, but it's not worth getting them anyway cus gapps aren't officially supported anyway.

> stopped on the official forum

phew, that's good to hear. Imagine being someone that bought a used Zenfone 8 and not having the receipts to send it back for warranty. Would've been a nightmare for a 700usd phone.

> still lots of problems with latest official release

I'm not happy about the poor software experience especially when you've paid so much for it. I tended to steer people away from asus - they tend to build great hardware and then flounder in the software department (not just for phones, for routers, laptops, etc. too). I'm definitely willing to lower the hardware value slightly to get proper software support for the next few years which is why I jumped on the Pixel 4a when it was released.

Would I like to have a SD888 in my pixel? yeah - but proper software support is more important.

bbarnett
I tried the 6, and it just had horrid, horrid noise cancellation on its mike. A friend, whom I talk to from time to time, shows me how bad ASUS phones are at noise cancellation, at voice input.

Maybe it's different on the 8. However, their responsiveness to many issues with the mike, and audio in general on the 6, made (at times) Google seem responsive in comparison.

Lost me for a looong time, as a potential phone customer.

AdrianB1
I still have the Zenfone 3 after 5 years and I have no love for Asus as a phone manufacturer, the updates stopped after 1 year and the support is on the low side. Also the prices of the Zenfone series increased a lot more than the inflation, while the value did not.
baybal2
> Ask HN: Why is there no small Android phone?

Because big brands are marketing driven. Most of marketing people are followers. They see Samsung Note being a blockbuster, and all copy.

Very few marketing people can play their own line, because they don't know how.

If look who puts innovation into the space, you see most successful new things, and especially lifestyle products being introduced by outsiders:

Samsung Note — an enthusiast product launched for SK domestic market largely on engineering's own initiative,

Asus EEE — Asus's business higher-ups were very sceptical, but were overruled by Chairman Shih,

Apple Iphone - no comments needed

hirundo
I walked into a Verizon shop last week, held up my old (large) Samsung S9+, and said I was looking for a smaller phone. They said nope, we don't have anything smaller. The S9+ was one of the larger options when I bought it. Now they're almost all huge.

So I bought a 6" tall Pixel 5 elsewhere, not quite as small as you're looking for, but a great phone, and it feels tiny compared to the S9+.

iqanq
"Why doesn't X exist?" Because people generally don't want it.
gbear605
Then why do people want iPhones in that size but not Androids?
KptMarchewa
Apparently it does not sell as well there. Apple keeps trying and yet discontinuing it.
bluedino
The Mini is their worst selling phone and the 13 is rumored to be the last one
gbear605
The SE is still decently popular and they’re rumored to be releasing a new one next month.
mihaaly
or buy based on hype - controlled by manufacturers - not real needs.
pinephoneguy
Or maybe the same kind of person who prefers a smaller phone tends to wait longer before replacing it.
Leherenn
Apple is supposedly discontinuing the iPhone mini though, so presumably the demand isn't really there.

I think the big issue with small Android phones is battery life. Apple was already getting some flak for it, and between the SoC and OS, it's a much more power efficient system.

gbear605
They’re still keeping the SE line though - a new release is expected in the next couple of months.
Leherenn
It's the budget line though. Is it small because they want it to be small, or because they're re-using the iPhone 8 tooling, which happened to be small(er)?

I still think the fact they're discontinuing their non-budget small offering is pretty significant. If there was a significant market, they would have kept it. Also, presumably, they have better margins on the mini than on the SE so you would expect them to keep the former if possible.

randallsquared
The SE line has Touch ID, does it not? That's a huge differentiator, and one of the main reasons I switched to Samsung a few years ago. Actually, assuming they keep Touch ID in the SE 3, I might now switch back...
iso1210
I'd certainly prefer touchID to faceID on my 12 mini, I'd prefer a headphone socket too, sadly these options aren't available
isoprophlex
The mini is said to be superseded by a new SE release coming April..!
lotsofpulp
I was under the assumption the SE is a budget phone line to target the $500 price range, while the mini is a premium phone with better features targeting the $1k price range.

Also, the 13 mini is far superior to the SE in terms of form factor. The 2020 SE is still way too big.

Tagbert
There are no credible rumors that the 2022 SE will be anything like the Mini. Most likely is that the SE will get iPhone 13 internals, mainly SOC and camera, and no external changes at all. It’s just a spec bump.
fomine3
I expect external change, but going to use old iPhone XR/11 chassis. That's how SE/SE2 made.
lotsofpulp
I hope this rumor is false. The 13 mini is the best phone I have used in many, many years.
iso1210
The 12 mini received a lot of hate, both on HN and in the wider press, and a lot of predictions about how awful it was and how nobody was buying it.

"Sorry, small-phone lovers: The iPhone 12 mini was Apple’s 2020 sales flop" [0]

"The iPhone 12 Mini May Not Be Long for This World" [1]

"Who would pay that for a powerful phone inherently limited by screen size" [2]

"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." [3]

Yet they made a 13 mini.

It's still a little larger that I'd like, but is is usable unlike the ridiculous sized phones others have.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-iphone-12-mini-h...

[1] https://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-12-mini-may-not-be-long-for-t...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26082294

[3] https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-i...

Matthias247
Development for the 13 mini will likely have started way before the 12 mini was launched and sales numbers where available. Besides that they will share a lot of components, which makes development cheaper.

Bad sales of a 12 mini will be more likely to affect whether a 14 or 15 mini will be released.

gurkendoktor
> presumably the demand isn't really there

I loved the 4" iPhone form factor (5, 5S, 5C, 2016 SE), and was really looking forward to the iPhone 12 mini.

But the reason I like small phones is because I don't use mine all day, and when I do, I want to do it with one hand. The iPhone mini line is too large for that, and costs almost twice as much as the 2020 iPhone SE. I think the mini series is simply a bad deal.

(And that's before I get into my rant about the terrible PWM flicker on OLED iPhones.)

dijit
FWIW the iPhone mini isn’t materially smaller than the iPhone 6- which was a phone I had deemed “too large” and clutched to my 5S (and later 5SE) for over 5 years.

I’m still using my iPhone 12 mini, but it is larger than I’d like so despite it being “small” it probably isn’t meeting the market for small.

Edit: I don’t have the iPhone 6 anymore but I do have the box.

Here’s how the mini and the 5S look in the box: https://imgur.com/a/W5b7RDF

Tagbert
Yes, but the original reviews of the 12 Mini all proclaimed that it was too small to useful and had an atrocious battery life. That was during the first COVID lockdown period when people couldn’t got to the store to try things out themselves.

In reality the Mini is almost as large as the early iPhone XS (5.4 vs 5.8) and the battery life of the Mini is also better than the XS, but reviewers still exaggerated the difference and proclaimed that the Mini was unusable. The Mini name only helps emphasize this in the public mind.

I think by the time the iPhone 13 came out and people were able to try the phones in hand, they has already written the Mini off and saw it as this tiny thing with a terrible battery and decided to not consider it.

dijit
Yep. But I’m firmly of the belief that those who strongly disliked the mini were not the target audience. Though I suppose that could be said about anything.

Phone reviewers keep going wild for large phones.

My “phablet” (oneplus one) looks very normal (edging toward small) these days.

fomine3
Also everyone addict to phone camera.
Jemm
Because it is less effective to show ads on a small phone.
benbristow
Don't know why you're being downvoted here. Maybe Mark Zuckerberg is lurking around here. It's a valid point. Less screen real estate = less space for ads.
Nextgrid
It's a reasonable point when you consider that the vast majority of consumer-grade software industry is "growth and engagement" garbage whose primary business model is advertising.
fomine3
This is important. It's not comfortable to use short height device without ad blocker because ads uses near the half of height.
smitty1e
I always figure that the market is like a normal distribution, and companies are staking out segments thereof.

Apple may have had a product in that form factor, but is that segment stagnant? Do they have it sewn up? Can a profit be turned by competing there?

If there is better margin with an S22 large enough to land a drone, then that direction is where efforts will tend.

Snuupy
The closest (proper) android equivalent to me is the Pixel 4a (at 144mm height). Unfortunately the 5a and (leaked specs) of the 6a are both gigantic and is unfortunate to me.

It does a lot of things right: is a (relatively) smol phone, has proper software updates/support, has a headphone jack, allows for bootloader unlocking, support eSIM, has usb3, has a large development community for custom roms/after-market support, and has proper noise cancellation for calls (many other OEMs don't have proper noise cancellation leading to echos all the time)

The other contenders are all either larger (but better hardware value), had worse software support, or had a combination of the previous.

I will however give a nod to OnePlus for allowing QFIL flashing and having those files available for when devices are soft-bricked/stuck in EDL mode so you can always rescue them. However, their software leaves a lot to be desired in both long term software updates (older models are often not given timely updates), and in refinement (ex. my OnePlus 6T constantly echos on phone calls).

A note if you're going to go Pixel line: if you ever decide to root, MAKE SURE you flash the correct model's files. I've seen several times online and had a friend flash the wrong model and end up perma-bricking their phones. Google does /not/ release the QFIL/firehose files for their phones (unlike OnePlus, Xiaomi) so if you make this mistake you WILL have to send it back for a motherboard replacement. If you don't have warranty coverage, that phone is permanently bricked. Make sure you flash the right files.

BadOakOx
Just fyi, Pixel 5 is nearly identical in size to Pixel 4a. (144.7 x 70.4 x 8 mm vs 144 x 69.4 x 8.2 mm )

...it has better hardware, but no headphone jack and nearly twice the price.

Snuupy
Haha, I saw that. Terrible value proposition compared to the 4a. Lose headphone jack, gain IP68, wireless charging, but pay a bunch more for it.
BadOakOx
+ better display (higher refresh rate), + better battery (it lasts me 3 days on average), + better CPU/more RAM, + one more camera

I wouldn't agree that it is a terrible value (but I might be biased, because I have it). I think the 4a has a great value, but you wouldn't get the extras you get cheaper anywhere else.

And I don't mind the missing headphone jack. Also, I just have my one and only USB port covered, so I am on full wireless mode with it.

asimops
Personally speaking, why would I want >60Hz for messengers, otps and some other static apps? For me it is much more important that I would have to carry multiple adapters around (because I am so good at loosing them) to connect my phone to my car, my hifi, my headphones, etc which sucks.
nmstoker
In many respects I much prefer my prior Android (Pixel 4) over the Pixel 6 XL I have now, I just didn't want to have a phone with an inferior camera (mobile photography is a big interest of mine) and the 4 was losing support.

I keep the 4 going for certain things and every time I pick it up it's a joy because it's so compact.

No risk of dropping it, unlike the new one which I've stuck tennis racquet grip on the case to help! (it doesn't look as stupid as it sounds!)

MereInterest
I'd love to see research to back up or refute this, but I think it's driven by cost and later justified through marketing. The larger a phone is, the larger components can be used, and the less design work needs to be done to ensure that everything fits without causing thermal issues or cross-talk. After that, you get a lot of marketing to establish that a bigger screen is inherently better, rather than being a design flaw.

In my opinion, a phone should be small enough that it can fit in the palm of one hand, with every part of the screen reachable with the thumb of that hand. Unfortunately, screen sizes have been creeping up with each generation, and it's impossible to find reasonably sized phones anymore.

bbarnett
I don't think so. Otherwise, 15+ years ago, Android phones wouldn't have started out as small as they did. And they're so much smaller (components) now.

If you open a modern phone, there's actually loads of space. And the smaller the screen, the less battery you need too.

Rzor
Screen panels were more expensive.
mimentum
Component cost was a barrier to larger size. Just like DSLRs started out with APS-C sized sensors, handsets started out with smaller screens.
dahfizz
> And the smaller the screen, the less battery you need too.

Sure, but the larger the screen the larger the battery that can fit. Apple themselves report that the iPhone 13 pro max will last longer than the pro, and the regular 13 will last longer than the mini.

Third party testing confirms for Samsung as well, with the s21 ultra lasting much longer than its smaller brothers.

Someone
> If you open a modern phone, there's actually loads of space.

Can you give an example? I thought that at least the high-end ones are designed to fill up every corner.

vladvasiliu
While it wouldn't surprise me that marketing would try to sell a product's shortcomings as actual features, in this particular situation, I don't think that's the case.

The main reason being that it seems to go against the fashion of ultra-slim devices.

What seems more plausible to me is that more and more people seem to use the phone for more and more tasks, so a bigger screen is more comfortable. Up to a point, of course.

herbst
But why not also serve the market that doesn't use their phone for anything useful.

My phone is way to huge to confirm banking logins, what essentially is it's only real job

vladvasiliu
Maybe they figured that market isn't big enough for the cost it would take to produce the smaller model.
tomc1985
More of that moronic "let's serve our primary customer segment and fuck everyone else" aka "You can have any color you want, as long as it's black"

Modern capitalism... thanks, Henry Ford

kec
Alternatively the calculus could be that a smaller sized phone would not be profitable once you account for the fixed cost of setting up production lines and expected sales numbers.
jamiek88
What’s the alternative? Let’s make a loss on purpose cos a tiny niche of people want smaller devices?
tshaddox
I doubt it has very little to do with that, and mostly to do with smartphones replacing people’s primary “non-work media devices” like laptops and desktops.
Beltalowda
Most likely it's a combination of factors: "big screens" look good on spec sheets and in stores, some people use smartphones are their primary computers, and probably cheaper/easier to manufacture too.
Ekaros
Yeah, people always think big numbers are better. And here on display are phones are tethered due to theft so you can't even try to properly handle one. So bigger screen looks better compared to smaller one. Entirely forgetting usability with single hand.
R0b0t1
This started with the Note2. Poor eyesight and the desire to watch media on phones is the driving factor, there's some marketing analysis that ended up concluding this.
aftergibson
There's terrific small Android Phones.

The Jelly 2: https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2

  Dimensions:  95*49.4*16.5mm
  Weight:   110g (with battery)
  CPU:      Helio P60 Octa-Core, 2.0GHz
  Operating System:  Android 10
  Memory:   6GB+128GB UFS 2.1
skykooler
The Jelly really highlights some aspects of Android that are no longer designed to work on small screens - some apps, such as Lyft, are unusable because they position an important button offscreen.
Wildgoose
That happens with Apple as well. I have a 2016 iPhone SE, and one of my apps (for the ZiiLock bicycle lock) is unusable on my phone, I have to use my iPad mini instead.

Great lock, worthless (to me) software:

https://ziilock.com/

vanilla_nut
Spotify frequently commits this sin, too. At one point I literally couldn’t play any albums because a popup obscured my screen whenever I loaded the app. The app quality for a still supported Apple phone certainly made my decision to leave easier.
haunter
Samsung Galaxy S10e, 142 mm high, 6 or 8 gigs of RAM.

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/specs/

And LineageOS is offically supported https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/beyond0lte/

ihateolives
It's okay-ish phone, but battery life is not stellar by any means. If I had to choose between a bigger phone with better battery that gets me through the day and a smaller one which needs power bank in the afternoon I'd opt for the former.
grujicd
S10e is great, except for battery life. But it’s not sold any more. New S22 is just slightly larger but it lacks audio out and memory expansion slot, which could be a problem since only 128GB model is available for preorder in my country.
avtolik
I have 10e, and is a good size for me. Why would you put a LineageOS on it, what are the benefits? Samsung has updated the phone to the latest Android version. Also are the banking apps working after you replace the OS?
f1refly
> what are the benefits?

No google and no samsung spyware integration into the system is a major upside. Lots of people also prefer the normal android distribution instead of the version Samsung designers agreed on.

Jiejeing
S10e is great (my current phone), but not manufactured anymore, but the firmware is buggy (needs a hard reboot once a month at least otherwise at some points it will refuse charging), and the battery life is not ideal, to say the least.
mpnordland
If you decide to go this route, please note that only one variant of the s10e is supported by Lineage OS. The US variant (with a Qualcomm CPU) is not supported and cannot be unlocked.
AlchemistCamp
There are. Xiaomi makes smaller phones of high quality. Check out the Mi 9 SE or the upcoming small Redmi for examples.
dvh
Smallest I could find is this: https://www.alza.sk/cubot-king-kong-mini-2-cerveny-d6482813....

Cubot King Kong Mini 2 - 1080x540 IPS, 3GB, 120GB flash, dual sim, 119mm x 58mm x 12mm, 123g, Mediatek MT6761, 3000 mAh, USB-C, Android 10, 100€

jaclaz
I bought one of these a few months ago (nearly, the "old" mini, not the mini2) and though it isn't one of the 8th wonders of the world, it does the little things I bought it for.

It is actually very (possibly even too) small, and using the virtual keyboard is an issue due to the minimal size of keys, but otherwise it's not too bad.

vijaybritto
It simply doesn't sell. While I like smaller phones, I'm forced to buy a larger phone because the specs in a smaller phone are quite low and doesn't perform well and so larger phones outsell smaller ones by a factor of 20.
Pedrit0
Personnaly I love small phones and I am stuck with a Samsung Galaxy A3... released in 2017. It is 135.4 x 66.2 x 7.9 mm and has a super-AMOLED screen, 3GB RAM and Knox layer for secure corporate enrollment. You cannot find smaller or as small devices with such specs since 2017. The downsides ? It has a 16GB Rom (it has a SD card but less and less apps can be moved on the SD card) and the battery will not last forever (even if until now it resists very well). The smallest and modern device I have spotted since then is the Asus Zenfone 8 but it is bigger than the Galaxy A3 2017: 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm
mg
I maintain this chart of small Android phones, maybe it helps:

https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...

You can move the "RAM" slider to 3GB which will show the phones that have 3GB or more. And the screen slider to your desired size. A height of 140mm means the phone would have a display size of roughly 5 or 6 inches.

For the USA, it gives me 90 phones with 3GB and up to 6 inches.

montroser
Cool. On what counts as "small" it's really not so much about screen size -- I don't want a small screen, I want a small phone. So it would be great to be able to filter by outright product dimensions.

Also would love to be able to filter to usb-c, headphone jack, and Android version.

BadOakOx
+ this, that Unihertz Titan in the list is a chunky one, because of the qwerty keyboard but small screen with 153.6x 92.5x 16.65 mm dimensions...
mg
I could implement the filtering by Android version. I already research that info. You can see it when you click on the phone. I did not add a filter for it as it might be somewhat misleading. Because it might be possible to upgrade the phone to a newer version.

As for phyiscal size, usb-c and headphone jack - I would have to research that data. All data on Product Chart is reasearched manually. So it takes quite some work to add another parameter.

hutrdvnj
I think Android version is very important, this is often the first filter that I use in order to filter out older devices. Yes, I know there are older devices e.g. 3 year old Smartphones that can be upgraded to the latest Android, but I'm not interested in such a device, because it's very likely that the support will end very soon and that the phone might lack some newer features of recent years, like Quick Charge 5.

If it's available I would use launch date to filter out older devices.

techdragon
Rather than android version, it might be better to filter by the release year and cpu manufacture since Qualcomm is the primary offender in terms of arbitrarily short support windows.
antifarben
Lineage compatibility would also be useful since it enables to use modern Android on post market phones.
throwawayboise
I want a phone I can operate one-handed. I.e. while holding it in my hand, my thumb can reach any point on the screen without changing my grip on the phone. Roughly a 3" screen. I don't need a camera at all. I don't think such a phone exists.
abruzzi
The Palm phone comes close. I'm not sure if they're still current though.
throwawayboise
I hadn't heard of that one. Yeah that definitely hits a lot of my criteria. Says it doesn't work on AT&T which would mean I would need to change carriers. Still, something I will keep in mind. Thanks for the tip.
OmahaBoy69
> I don't want a small screen, I want a small phone

It's definitely not what I'd call an "HN-friendly device", but check out the Galaxy Z Flip 3. I thought I'd hate it at first (no 3.5mm jack or IR blaster), but the whole system of having a tiny device that folds open into a giant screen is surprisingly awesome.

na85
Wait. Phones have IR blasters?
josephcsible
It's not common, and these days it's basically exclusively Chinese brands that offer it, but yes, some do.
fifthace
If you select 5.5in (iPhone 13 Mini is 5.4in), 3GB and launch year 2021 you get zero phones. So the poster's question is pertinent!
odiroot
From latest phones of known brands I pretty much only get Google Pixel 4A (144 mm) and Asus Zenfone 8 (148 mm). I wouldn't consider these small phones.
KaoruAoiShiho
Hey maybe you can help, been looking for a new android tablet (current tablet S5E) for media consumption, primarily manga, that's lightweight and has a large screen. This combo seems really hard to find. Every tablet i've looked at is significantly heavier than my S5E. Does your website help me with this.
freddex
You can switch that site to tablets, here's a direct link: https://www.productchart.com/tablets/

At a glance, you can filter by both screen size and weight, so that should work for your purpose.

mg
Yup, what Freddex said. Plus you can also tick the Android filter.

Additionally, if you see the non-mobile view of the site (Which should be the case on a desktop or tablet) you can hover/tap the axis and switch to "Inches per ounce" which will sort the tablets by how much size you get per ounce of weight.

KaoruAoiShiho
Oh nice! In/ounce is awesome... though sadly my S5E is at the top lmao.
sydd
How about getting an eink tablet? Boox note air has a 10" display and is 420grams, and runs Android. The downside of eink is that you cannot watch videos and is black and white. Also boox devices are kinda in asive to your privacy I'd not login to then with my real Google account.

Otherwise I had only very disappointing experiences with Android tablets (mainly due to the lack of support, apps, updates), if you need one get an iPad.

KaoruAoiShiho
It's an interesting idea but that would mean giving up colored webtoons and visual novels which I also want to read though less frequently. My manga app tachiyomi only exists on Android.

I have an ipad for apps and stuff, this device would be exclusively for media consumption. It's a consideration... hmm esp the weight is really appealing.

Though of the 15 apps I use they're all available on android, and of them 5 are android exclusives. Android tablets are the way to go for me I think.

cweagans
You might check out the Boox Nova3 Color. Color e-ink, but it's somewhat small for a tablet.
HWR_14
Does anyone know when eInk patents will expire and it becomes far less expensive?
robinsoh
What eInk patents? You think patents are what dominates pricing?
HWR_14
Yeah. ePaper/eInk has a monopoly on epaper screen production because of a bunch of patents they have exclusive rights to.
robinsoh
> Yeah. ePaper/eInk has a monopoly on epaper screen production because of a bunch of patents they have exclusive rights to.

Your comment lacks any effort at accuracy. ePaper is a generic term and tonnes of manufacturers make ePaper displays, even huge companies like Sharp. Even startups like ClearInk that I've interacted with make electrophoretic displays which are the same underlying technology as E-Ink. And I bet if I ask you for evidence of "bunch of patents they have exclusive rights to", you'll just patent search for E-Ink and pretend that's evidence. Look at my comment history. It is pretty clear HN posters like above know nothing about the display industry and yet make extraordinary claims with such confidence and inability to provide any evidence for their faith in those claims.

freddex
Great site! The visualization style is very nice to get a feel for the distribution of the market, so to say. I noticed you can even switch axes, for example changing the y axis from screen size to storage.
leephillips
Wow. This site is great, really. Fantastic job.
tcmb
Really useful site, thanks! The Pixel 4a seems to be in there twice, once with screen size 5.8" and once with 5.81".
karmakaze
Oh yeah, love this site. I was looking for small android tablets and there are woefully few of those as well.

Curiously though there's something that sort-of fits both small-phone/small-tablet.

Surface Duo

  8.1 inches (2700 x 1800, 2x 1350x1800)
  6 GB RAM (128GB or 256GB storage)
  145 x 93 x 9.9 mm (folded)
  8.8 ounces (250g)
Surface Duo 2

  8.3 inches (2688x1892, 2x 1344x1892)
  8 GB RAM (256GB storage)
  145 x 92 x 11 mm (folded)
  10.02 ounces (284g)
There's also the Samsung Z phones, but the Surface Duo with 3:2 display seems more suited as a portable terminal.
razemio
Make sure you view the reviews of the surface duo 1/2. They are horrible.

The Pinephone Pro with the Pine Hardware Keyboard might be what you are looking for. Also LG has dual screen phones which are very usable as a portable terminal and less expensive.

Also checkout GPD Laptops, if you are looking for something portable with ALOT of power.

andrew_
If they'd make those dang things waterproof I'd be all over them. My phones get a dip in the Gulf of Mexico from time to time.
karmakaze
Yeah, my current phone is IP-whatever waterproof because I cared. I've never actually lost a phone to water damage though and haven't got this one wet more than raindrops. It is peace of mind. Statistically I'm more likely to lose it, break the screen, or brick it if I get too experimental. Most likely, outgrow its performance or need/want OS upgrades. The one phone I swam in the ocean with, a Nokia 3390 was fine after I thoroughly rinsed and let it dry.
karmakaze
The horrible reviews point out a few things that don't much matter to me:

  - Terrible camera
  - Terrible speaker
  - Software too buggy
  - Price
The 'software too buggy' does matter, but I suspect that was earlier reviewed versions or related to specific aspects like the camera, certain soft-keyboard modes, or non-tablet-optimized apps as specifically called out by some of the reviews. My usage of a phone is largely not for many entertainment/consumption/apps but more general informational websites like HN, reddit, or for work (github, etc).
karmakaze
The LG G8X brings up a very interesting alternative I hadn't considered.

Simply get an external battery-powered USB-C display with included (or Bluetooth) keyboard+trackpad/mouse. This device category must exist by now.

indymike
A lot of the small tablets in Androidland are marketed as phablets (really big phones). If you get a phablet instead of a traditional tablet, it will come with an 4G or 5G chipset, so you can connect it to a phone carrier in addition to WiFi. Try setting screen size to 6" to 9" in the phone category.
capableweb
That's a great site!

And it really highlights the problem OP is highlighting. I've had Motorola Moto G's in the past, until they also got large, then I bought an iPhone 12 Mini. Not too happy with that purchase, I want to go back to Android (mainly because CarPlay's UX is so much worse than Android Auto), but unable to find any phone.

If on that website I put "Screen: 4 - 5.5 inch" and "Released: 2019 - 2021" it shows me a whopping amount of 4 phones, none of them by established brands but instead by random companies I never heard of (or AT&T ???), so the quest continues.

There simply seems to be no manufacturers interested in creating smaller Android phones as of today, still.

Hasnep
If you're willing to increase the screen size to 5.6 inches you can get the Pixel 3a, although it's not actually a small phone, it just feels like one in comparison to everything else.
danieldk
And it's from 2019 and will probably and only guaranteed to get updates until May this year. In the meanwhile, the original iPhone SE from 2016 is still getting major updates.

If you care about a small phone with reliable updates for a longer period, there is only the iPhone.

opan
You could put LineageOS on that Pixel, though.
accountofme
tbh Calyxos is much better than lineage imho.
capableweb
It's so sad that the choice is between a Giant Douche and A Turd Sandwich. Why can't someone make a good phone?!
JamesAdir
you've got several discontinued models there and it's a problem cause you cant' get an updated android version and sometime it's hard to get them an alternative. Also in 2020-2021 the only phones launched were the Pixel 4a and the Asus Zenphone 8.
guenthert
Well done. I wished though, it would list battery endurance (stand-by time / max. call duration) instead of capacity.
AdrianB1
Capacity is a relatively precise measurement compared to the endurance.
guenthert
Capacity is an useful measurement for producers of batteries and their consumers, i.e. devices running on batteries. It's utterly useless for consumers of those devices though.
obarthelemy
phones are ranked by screen diagonal size not body size, which isn't super helpful because bezels.
BadOakOx
I asked this question so many times. For a long a time I was a big fan of the Xperia Z Compact line... Now, Sony also stopped making these smaller phones...

I switched to Pixel 5 recently. I am happy with it, the main reason I wanted/liked the smaller phones so I could reach everything with my thumb and I could use the phone with one hand.

The advantage of Pixel 5 (and other newer phones) is that they are very thin, so it is easier to hold in one hand. The other thing that just got introduced with Android 12 is the one-handed mode, that I use a lot. With these two things in mind I have to say, I don't mind the size of the phone.

littlecranky67
In fall 2019 I had the same issue, needing a new, small phone. On Android, there was only the Pixel 3a which fit the criteria, and two Samsungs. Since I despise Samsung mostly for their buggy firmware/bad integration of non-google Bloatware, I only considered the Pixel and the iPhone 8. At that point of time, the iPhone 10 series was just introduces and the iPhone 8 almost a year on the market. I went with the iPhone (even though I never had iOS before) and do not regret it. Fast forward 2022, the Pixel 3 has fallen out of support, while my iPhone 8 still is supported, and I don't see any upgrade happening to a new phone unless Apple stops support or I lose/break it.