Ask HN: Has anybody here ever successfully started a videogame company?
After seven years of doing much less interesting varieties of programming at work while making silly JS games at home - my urge to actually make videogames is stronger now than ever. So, I took action. I downloaded the XNA Toolkit and banged out a basic pong clone in an hour to start off with and moved forward from there. Coincidentally I happen to be friends with an amazing musician who was more than happy to provide me with music and a great artist to provide me with graphics. Fast forward to today and I've got a game that I can feasibly see myself releasing this week.
I want to keep doing this and would love if I could start doing it full time; it's been a blast. I'd like to do this full time but like most people, I'm not independently wealthy quite yet. I still have to feed myself. So, all of that is to say, has anyone here tackled the same endeavor and succeeded? Are there people who fund games other than the big successful videogame companies perpetuating themselves or does everyone find success on the side then keep going? Certain platforms sell better than others (I've heard Steam's much better than the Xbox 360 market)? Any hurdles to watch out for?
53 comments
[ 4.7 ms ] story [ 124 ms ] threadMobile games are the easiest to get into (since you can rely on the app distribution models from Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and you don't need to think too much about cramming your software into a box.
Our game is called Bouncy Mouse, and we're about to release our first major update with new content and new game modes. We've got over 1 million downloads on Android, but fewer on iOS since discoverability on iTunes is difficult due to major companies buying their way into the top spots through ads and promotions. Competing on iOS is hard primarily due to this reason, though Apple did feature us for a week or two, which was great.
The classic gaming market is still huge and healthy. I would like to branch out into that market once we have some more resources (e.g. once we're larger than two people and have a little cash to finance bigger budget art, music, design, etc.)
You can check out our website here. :) http://www.bouncymousegame.com/
Great for two people. Not enough for much more. Let's see what happens after we release additional content, in-app purchases, and another game! We have some tricks up our sleeves and we love making our players happy.
We have an ad in the free Android version that users can remove by completing an in-app purchase for 99 cents. So we make a little bit of money from each Android user.
I hope we keep pleasing our users and making more money so we can build more great games.
Also, what avenues of marketing are you using?
For marketing – not much. Relying on blogs, forums, word of mouth, featured promotions in the App Store and in Android Market (and in Windows Phone 7). We bought a few ads, but they weren't super effective. Focusing on marketing is something we will do for our next game, but since we're strapped for cash it's hard to compete with the social farming gaming behemoths in terms of climbing the ranks through advertising.
Recommendation: Contract iPhone development or Android development. Get a decent but minimal app in the App Store using Unity or Cocos2d, and recruiters / devs will be falling over themselves to hire you.
Consoles are a really crappy market. The CEO of the console company I used to work for really wanted to get into mobile. That was before the company tanked due to publisher shenanigans.
I met someone this weekend that works for a small game studio that's exiting the Wii market. He said it's just becoming impossible unless you're one of the big guys. They've already exited XBox and PS3 so Wii was the last console left for them. They're now mostly targeting PC and Mac.
Steam certainly makes it easier to sell an indie game right now. Notch (of Minecraft fame) has a breakdown on why they don't use it though: http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9550850116/why-no-steam-notch
Mobile seems easy to break into but it's a crowded market. You've got big budget games crushing you from above and a flood of crappy clones on the low end. I'm still awefully tempted and I'm trying to pull together a couple mobile game concepts myself.
Most devs and artists hate marketing, but it's actually THE most important part of your business. If people don't know about you, they can't buy from you.
The key is to do something that makes you stand out. For the big players, it's easy enough to do by throwing your weight around. For the small players, you have to look for a hack; something that nobody else is doing. Something crazy that makes people look up from their humdrum lives and take notice and say "hey, cool!".
Marketing is a continual task that never ends. Unless you manage to capture the mythical "virality" (which 99.9% of products don't), your sales will always be tied to your continued marketing effort.
That's another angle to go for directly, though; try to find some blogs covering areas where your game seems relevant, and see if they're interested in reviewing it.
Different platforms have different customers, demand different games, and have different challenges. For a small project, I highly suggest using a sophisticated and cheap multiplatform middleware engine like Unity3D. It allows you to quickly and easily iterate without worrying about coding new technology.
If you are looking for funding on a small project, I suggest something like Kickstarter. Heads up, unless your project has a sophisticated online component the biggest money sink is going to be your art. If you can a) get users to generate the assets, b) generate the assets programmatically, or c) use an aesthetic that revels in its own lo-fi chic you will have cut your costs dramatically.
The biggest hurdle will be your own enthusiasm. For a small project, keep the scope small. Check out flOw and World Of Goo to get an idea of what I mean by "small."
The best way to find something that is both new and fun is to experiment. Come up with wacky ideas for mechanics and build really ugly prototypes. When you have an ugly piece of unstable software that manages to enthrall its players despite itself THAT'S when you move forward.
I've got a few plans and visions, but my only true design decision is to keep it fun and accessible. There's no design doc, but there are two lists; one for bugs, and one for features I want to add but think I might forget.
I make sure to play the game a lot, and I've built my share of towers, and flooded my share of caves. If something ever doesn't feel fun, I'll remove it. I believe that I can combine enough fun, accessibility and building blocks for this game to be a huge melting pot of emergent gameplay.
I hope things work out for you. Keep us posted!
maybe try getting your game into the next humble bundle to get more exposure
* Make sure you focus on the company aspect of things. Why are you making games? If the answer isn't 'to make money' you're doing it wrong - make them as a hobby instead. Starting a video game company because you have great game ideas, or because making games is something you love to do is a bad, bad idea. The reason for this is that at the end of the day, if you don't focus on the financial aspect of things, your company.will.fail. Most game companies fail because they're living month to month off of publisher's paychecks without trying to establish revenue streams of their own (other than royalties).
* Speaking of royalties. If you're getting funding through a video game publisher, make sure you understand how the payout will happen, how your advance is being payed off, etc. You probably won't have much negotiating power here, and this isn't really a route I'd recommend unless you _really_ need the funding.
* Start small, don't try to make a game engine right out of the gate. Put something simple together and iterate on it. If it turns out you're making a lot of the same type of game over and over, then think about abstracting an engine out of it.
* Reconcile the awesome game that's in your head, with the awesome game you can make given the time and resources available. Don't overcommit, you'll just end up implicitly cutting features instead of explicitly cutting them, and the game will suffer.
* Don't forget about the importance of marketing and timing. Great games fail _all the time_ because they weren't marketed well, or because they released and then got buried by the latest AAA or hyped up title.
to see if people actually want to play the game, you need to test the waters. Ghetto-like testing (Zynga's much publicized way of using FB game ads to gauge user interest ) is one option.
Fun = addicting game mechanic.
They were not pleased with XBLA. Their game, Space Giraffe, got hammered by a particularly bad reviewer (employed at the official Xbox Mag, no less). The game is actually quite good, albeit extremely hard, and has been praised by the creator of Braid. Microsoft did't seem to care about them at all (at least that's what I think happened), so they went elsewhere.
What they've done is focused on a niche. Most of Llamasoft's games are mash-ups of games from the 1980's, usually with lots of crazy graphical effects, and lots of goats, sheep, llama's, oxen, and various other beasties. Gameplay design is among the best I've ever experienced in twitch-based games. There's a loyal following of customers who love their games and support them, helping Llamasoft sustain themselves.
They're not super-rich, but have been chugging along for a while. I think they're excited about iOS because they're indie, and it's very easy for them to release games on it. Marketing and getting the word out is definitely their biggest challenge. Currently, it seems their goal is to release a new iOS game every 2-3 months, and build up a catalog of games. Once one of them is a hit, it'll bring in more customers, who will be interested in their back-catelog.
GoatUp, which just released to great reviews, might be that ticket (check it out: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/goatup/id462286820?mt=8).
You can always ask them directly about their experiences. They've been on XBLA, Steam, iTunes, and a lot of other platforms in the past. Sign up at www.yakyak.org, and ask Yak or gilesgoat a question.
30 years ago a C64 was My First Computer, a birthday present. Llamasoft's Attack of the Mutant Camels was my first game, swiftly followed by the insanely fast Gridrunner.
I cut my teeth on Commodore v2 BASIC and 6502 assembler. I turned down an early teens New Year's party (girls and everything...) to hack on an assembler monitor from Y64 magazine.
And I don't regret it.
Recognizing by chance something better in a local computer store I bought a copy of the Zeus assembler. The proprietor warned me "You know this isn't a game, right?".
I welded dodgy hardware into the underpowered expansion port, using telco engineer Dad's overpowered soldering gear. Despite the cost of the thing, nobody questioned that I might break it. A gift truly given.
I still have my copy of the C64 Programmer's Reference Guide (on the shelf behind me, next to Dad's copy of the KDF9 Algol Reference). I still have the 6502 opcodes in my head (LDA $A9). I'm saddened by the fact that I stupidly gave away my C64 many years ago. I'd love to see again the awful software that I wrote (transliterated from "Numerical Recipes") to help me with my high school physics homework :)
And I'd really like to see some pro code from that time.
> Sign up at www.yakyak.org
Done! Hard to quantify how much effect these guys' work has had on my life but it's certainly non-negligible. Hack on :)
/now playing: Rat's Monty Mole theme tune
Oh, and check out some of their new stuff I mentioned. Especially the iOS stuff as it's modeled after many games from the C64-era (you'll like them I bet): http://minotaurproject.co.uk/Minotaur/minotaurprj.php
A while ago, I kept hearing a lot about Unity3D while talking with teams around the DC-NY area. So I looked into it, and made a small game mayself, just research - non-commercial, to see if it was as useful as everyone claimed. Everything they said was true, I was able to get a simple game done in a weekend. BUT, that was without leaderboards, or even scoring, or social tie-ins or ANYTHING other than the simple mechanic and even simpler graphics.
Haven't touched it since...
I would be curious to know, from anyone who uses Unity to make real games, how long does it take you to put out a game with Unity? And once you are using it...isn't it a little difficult to switch to something else if you want to produce a larger project? Or does it work fine for larger projects as well?
Basically just wondering what are people's impressions of using Unity?
It is not that convenient to work with larger teams on the same project and documentation on how to do that is sparse.
It has been done however, even EA has adopted the engine for a few projects (Tiger Woods Online) and there are whole MMOs built with it.
As more and more larger companys start to use it, the focus of the developers behind Unity will shift to all those Team issues.
The pricing and license agreement is VERY competitive and they are having sales every few month.
Qualcomm even released their Augmented Reality Platform as a Unity Package which I currently use to do some projects with.
Overall i think its the best middleware package for indies and mid-size companys today.
You should take another look at Unity when v3.5 launches - they have made some advancements and fixes that are targeted for larger projects[2]. I can't wait for a better gui system and native lod support!
As for the negatives, so far I have only found the documentation to be lacking on some fronts (specifically regarding the terrain engine).
[1] http://trailsgame.com/
[2] http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Unite-11-Unity-35-De...
I think there are more and more one/three people company making indie games and living off it partly from Steam and iPhone development. I hope you will be successful in your projects!
From what I've read it's pretty easy to get up on Steam. Terraria and Magicka are good examples of games from unknown teams making it big. I think Terraria was put together in something like 4 months, made a couple million dollars too.
In particular, figure out how many sales you'd need to cover your costs; then do some market size estimates to figure out whether it's realistic to hope for that many sales. Don't forget about cash-flow either because it may take a while for your game to start selling, sales may tail off quicker than you anticipate, etc. Use that info to help decide whether it's a risk you should take.
Good luck!
Now, it's possible to do something similar on the web, or with a cheap mobile game, but in console gaming (PS3, 360 etc) the games all run in the 8 digits (over $10,000,000!) and involve big teams, often over 100 people.
First company that comes to mind: http://www.vlambeer.com/ (they created super crate box; a free game) Check out their talk on it: http://vimeo.com/29423887
Generally:
* Keep things small and focused.
* Make games, not game engines.
* Keep control of your revenue streams early on. Sell the game yourself and consider platforms such as Steam or XBLA bonuses. If you can't sustain yourself without those platforms you probably won't make it. Use that extra revenue for expansion of your studio or your ambition.
* Marketing and PR should be a primary focus, alongside game development.
* Scope scope scope. If you're first product is an MMO you'll fail. If you think your first few products will be able to compete with anything on a store shelf you'll fail. A good game with personality is not dependent on your underlying tech nor does it require novels of content. That's why many of the successful indies start with 2D games drenched with style. A good game is a good game.
The main reason is that it is such a hit driven industry, which means that most companies live from hit to hit, until the moment they have a failure. At that point, most companies close down, as they can't afford a new production and may not be lucky enough to get a publisher deal early on.
The problem is that it is hit driven industry, and this is true no matter if you make AAA games like Gears of War or Halo, or if you make small iphone games or middle-sized games on Steam or XBLA. The sales numbers drop sharply as you move away from the top selling games and it is extremely hard to stay in the top for very long.
Publishers are essentially the VCs of the games industry, and have enough money to spread their risk, as they know 80% of their projects will fail.
Another problem with game production, is that you don't really need that many people early on, when you are still figuring out what game you are making. Then slowly as you enter production, you ramp up the time. This is also the same reason, that so many people are often laid off after a game comes out. There is no longer a need for all those people in the company.
What I think really needs to happen, is for games companies to become more like movie production companies, where a team is assembled as needed and can be dispersed with no hard feelings after the production. The production of a game, also becomes a much more measured risk this way.
When you release a game immediately start working on either promotion, features to improve the current game, or your next game. Do not do what I did and sit around looking over all of the numbers, that will disappoint you. Start thinking about the next game you can develop and expand upon what you learned from the previous project.
Once the feedback and numbers start coming in for the released game start tweaking it and release updates every other week until you are happy with the numbers and players stop requesting changes.
- don't overscope
- don't limit yourself to a platform (language, console/pc/mobile)
- don't be afraid to aggressively cut features
- don't ever think that you really know what will work
- do try things (lots of things)
- do make a great game
- do spend time studying games that sell on your platforms (business development)
- do write terrible code (if you're someone who knows the difference)
- do it fast
- do things that keep your morale up
Have reserves to handle a few less-than-break-even projects.
Have more than one idea.
Start simple.
Remember that you have to release a product every 2 months to make a living at mobile.
Never go into debt and your company can survive forever, even if you don't make a dime.
Make a code base you can reuse. Know who is going to buy your product.
Don't underprice.
Make sure your contracts always handle things like your publisher going out-of-business.
Only make products you believe in.
Don't finalize your company name / product name until after you have successfully registered the web domain.
Keep your fans talking with forums.
"Lore" is a super cheap way to make your game more interesting.
Be extra kind to the folks who aren't getting paid... yet.
Don't burn bridges... you never know.
What is hot today will be dead tomorrow, no exceptions.
Be sure to have a bloody good screenshot or nobody will buy it.
Find "movements", join them, take them over, make them yours.
Always innovate, never follow.
Notice targets of opportunity.
Polish, polish, polish.
Eventually, you have to ship or die.
Somebody has to be "the last word".
Better yet, don't do it.