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Ask HN: What companies hire with upfront salary ranges?

24 points by xrigau ↗ HN
I'm trying to do a bit of research on compensation in software engineering, and I have seen some companies being open about their compensation. For example Monzo have their salary bands in their job descriptions (https://boards.greenhouse.io/monzo/jobs/2578108). Others seem to take the transparent salaries approach (see Buffer: https://buffer.com/salaries).

I'm curious to know what other companies are doing something similar, do people have more examples of this? Thanks!

26 comments

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gamechangr
I wouldn't put much confidence in that. I know of a friend that applied for a job with a $100k-$149k total compensation stated. He ended with a total comp of $360k. When he asked about it, the company said "we could never advertise above a range seen as normal, but we pay above our states ranges pretty regularly ". '
pc86
This seems pretty silly. There are plenty of people who will outright rule out anything below 200, or 250, or 300. None of them will apply in this scenario.
igetspam
I do. I flat out ignore comp in postings and negotiate based on my own perceived value. I've always ended up above the posted ranges. Have for the last 15 years or so. It's why I hesitate to publish them in job descriptions. I worry about weeding out top talent because my standard comp is below their range. I hire a lot of mid/senior and the range is based on them. If a truly unique person shows up that we think could really elevate the team, we'll pay for that but I can't advertise that and set incorrect expectations for everyone.
teh_klev
I'm the opposite and maybe it's impostor syndrome but I'd never apply for a role that has a way out of the ordinary salary. I usually have a range in mind for what I consider fair and decent compensation for my skillset and if I get an offer that's a bit higher then it comes as a nice surprise.

So I can kinda see how not advertising above the normal probably allows them to attract decently skilled folks who might not normally apply for a 200k+ job, and they might actually be better. And of course for the applicant when they get that healthy offer they didn't expect everyone wins.

Oras
That's weird. Compensation is one of the most important factors to attract talent. I'm sure they miss a lot of qualified candidates with this strategy.
throwawayninja
My anecdata is I moved jobs several times because the problems we were solving became less technical and more political; I'll take a salary decrease to enjoy my work, thank you very much. As long as it covers regular life expenses, I'm personally much more attracted to an interesting problem to nibble on.
xyzzy21
Yeah but do YOU think you'd be work $360K or would your expectations for what you'd be obligated to scare you from even applying?

If you see range that's in a normal range, you'll apply.

Also for higher end salaries, the hiring is done differently and the expectations are generally different on both sides of the negotiation. You pretty much NEVER hire a $360K-$2M by putting out a req. You may do that as a formality but there's zero expectation of getting anything useful.

I once worked for a company that round-filed every Job Board and mailed resume application as a matter of SOP - they ONLY hired if an employee or trusted collaboration partner recommended the person. They created an EEOC-compliant process for legal appearances but they never hired through that.

Higher salary positions are more the same only more so.

Edit: the other factor - most jobs (I've seen claims of 80%) don't exist before the "right candidate" has already been found. I.e. the position is created for that person and not vice versa.

xrigau
Was this a US-based company? I do wonder if this happens more common than we think, although as others have mentioned, it feels a bit counterproductive
jstx1
Many companies do in the sense that you can often find out a range from the recruiter although the information isn't usually published in the ad. There's some push in certain states and countries to change this but I'm not that convinced that it's a significant/positive change. I guess we'll see.

If you need it for research, just about any dataset you collect will be biased in some way - you just need to be aware of how it's biased for your analysis.

pc86
I work with recruiters often, and they're typically very open about salary ranges. I would say 60-70% of the time you can get a range in the second message - either they reach out, you ask for the range, and they give it, or you reach and ask for the range in the first message, and they give it. You get a couple old school folks who really want "a 5 minute chat" before disclosing, and they're easy to block and report.
xrigau
Good call, this is not something I typically do, but I'll definitely start doing it. Thanks!
soared
Starting in April, job posting for NYC will require posting compensation in the ad. The same law exists for Colorado.

Likely starting in April you’ll start to see more and more salaries being posted.

xrigau
Interesting! I didn't know this is becoming a requirement in the States, too. Thanks!
Viliam1234
Is it legal to publish a range? Is it legal if that range is something like "between zero and infinity"?

A similar law exists in Slovakia, and most companies already shamelessly use this loophole. If everyone puts in small print that their salary is "€1 or more, depending on your skills", people soon learn to ignore it, and everything is just like it was before.

soared
There are stipulations to ensure employers are doing it in good faith and not skirting their system.
mymllnthaccount
My experience has been that a lot (approaching half?) Of all CO job postings for data science have laughably large ranges. Like 100-200k
soared
It’s a start at least, and better than nothing! I believe the goal is to push employees towards posting, have other states make similar laws and get to a point where they are more accurate and useable.
sparrish
Every company in Colorado at this point. It's required by law.
eduardb
You can add Wave Mobile Money (https://www.wave.com/en/careers/) to the list, all engineering job descriptions contain the (real!) salary range. Also, everyone knows everyone’s salary inside the company :)
xrigau
Nice, thanks for sharing! :)