Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many things?
I learned this late in life, but I came to realize that for anything you buy from a small business or from someone on commission, you can negotiate.
After reading about it on Reddit, I‘ve shown up to hotels and gotten 40% off initial price.
At Guitar Center, you can negotiate the price of guitars.
I’ve seen people negotiate a round of shots in NYC.
The world exists out there at a discount if you’re willing to ask for it.
372 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 257 ms ] threadI have custom DNS setup, that didn't seem to improve it much.
BTW traffic being faster in a VPN is pretty common for ISP throttling, for whatever reason.
But like you said, it's not useful to us as a customer of an ISP because we can't alter the routing table used by the ISP even if we identified a problematic routes/peers. You can try to complain to their customer support, and might get lucky if the customer support has technical authority to debug peering issues.
https://www.levels.fyi/services/
buying a car or getting a hotel room? not much harm can be done there
References to episodes at:
* https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
* https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...
* https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...
Clips of all of them being said:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-7aw6vurY
I wish I could memorized them more readily, but I have to real practical reason to keep them stored in my head, but I wish I could have them handy for funsies just because.
Don't ask for a "deal", "discount", "best price", etc, ask, "Can you do X at $Y?"
Consumer Reports has a good chart you should scroll down and look at:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/08/how-to-...
Sounds like this is a perfect example
Mattress sales where all mattresses are half price happen pretty frequently.
The others say they can only do 10% or that I can't negotiate. The later, I just laughed and walked out the door as he was trying to get me to stay. I didn't want to reward that behavior. The rest, I just thank them for their time and wish them a good day as I leave.
This is also true of tvs and a lot of electronics.
But if you need a mattress and can't wait for a sale, then you do have to negotiate if you don't want to leave money on the table.
Depending on the debt, getting most of the difference between the legal expenses and the debt itself is in reach, given a creditor who is a rational actor.
(probability of recovery) * (1 - profit margin) * (amount owed)
today, for the right to sue on you behalf?
Note: I think the current debt collection system in the US is terrible, especially for medical debt. I suggest looking at the charity "RIP Medical Debt" if you do too.
At the very least, when selling a debt to a collections agency, the (re)seller of the debt should be obligated to first offer the same price to the person that owes money.
That seems reasonable at first glance, but it would lead to an explosion of people simply refusing to pay and waiting for the 'debt collector price' offer to arrive.
Suing people who don't pay their bills is a losing proposition. You will be paying lawyers and getting very little to nothing in return.
In the "of course that exists" category, there are services that give a score about somebody's ability to pay.
I really hate how every business process can be (and frequently is) optimized to the nth degree at the cost of privacy.
https://www.equifax.com/business/product/ability-to-pay/
How much of a discount that's worth depends on the likelyhood of collecting after the legal process as well as how much of a reputational hit going through the process would be.
I wouldn't negotiate with most things after the service was performed (unless it wasn't to my satisfaction), but most services will have a firm quote before the service (sometimes that's legally required). A mechanic can keep your car until you've paid, but a hospital can't refuse to discharge you until you've paid, so they don't have the leverage to get immediate payment.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220318005244/en/Equ...
> Effective July 1, 2022, paid medical collection debt will no longer be included on consumer credit reports.
In addition, the time period before unpaid medical collection debt would appear on a consumer’s report will be increased from 6 months to one year, giving consumers more time to work with insurance and/or healthcare providers to address their debt before it is reported on their credit file.
In the first half of 2023, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion will also no longer include medical collection debt under at least $500 on credit reports.
What about before you undergo the medical services? Why is it so damn uncommon to ask for a price before seeing the doctor?
The main reason is that, often, the doctor is choosing the specific procedures after you show up, not before. There's not a price for "stomache ache".
For the elective procedures where it is known what is involved up-front, there is some price shopping that does happen.
Imagine choosing doctors like plumbers. Do you go with the one with the low initial exam fee? How about the one your family member recommended? Or the one with good reviews on the internet? Then, when they tell you the plan, do you go to another one and pay their exam fee to find out their plan?
I have some experience at this from the veterinary side. Some people do treat us like plumbers. They know there are several points of leverage in the pricing. However, it is a two edged sword. If you decline the plan and renegotiate it, the vet is liable to stop recommending the expensive options because you are more focused on money than health. This happens unconsciously. If you decline a $20 diagnostic after a half hour of haggling I won't have time or energy to try to convince you to spring for a $100 monthly treatment when an inferior but acceptable treatment is available for less. I'll present both options and you will probably choose the inferior one as part of your haggling strategy.
Haggling makes lots of sense when the quality of the commodity is not under control of the salesperson, it is easy to determine, and the salesperson pads your price with lots of margin. In medicine, everything is opaque and haggling is rarely able to take a broad cut on price without sacrificing quality.
Need a hip replaced? Having a child? These things can negotiated in advance at a substantial discount.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...
The price i pay for not dealing with the stress of haggling is well worth it for most things (salaries an exception where it may be worth it)
I don't view negotiating as something stressful.
They sometimes actually do, but they aren't meant for haggling purposes, and are often only allowed up to a small amount (like say $20). They're meant for things like price-matching or resolving pricing discrepancies.
I used to be a cashier at a sporting goods chain store. No one ever told me, but I discovered I could give 5% discounts without an override. My team lead could give 10%. No one ever asked for a discount, but I would have probably given them if the customer asked nicely. Of course I could also adjust the price if the tag showed something different, and the computer did not request an override unless it was a large discrepancy.
don't try to haggle with retail staff.
There was no slot for the cue anymore, and no sticker on it
Asked the guy in Sporting Goods how much it was
He looked at it for a minute and said, "how's $5.97 sound?" (that was the price of the marked-down solid maple stick, this was a two-piece fiberglass jobbie (probably a $40-50 cue at the time))
I told him, "sounds great"
He printed-out a "replacement" price tag, and went to check out
I also have a suspicion that people even find haggling rude. I also think others are confused by it, like the choosing beggar subbredit seems to often just be bad attempts at haggling
But you are tangibly hurt by systemic discrimination. Otherwise qualified people give up their career choice to avoid harassment or because of inequitable salary. Then we are left with less qualified and motivated people staffed in important positions. Your work, health, or other aspect of your life are affected, just not in ways you can easily see or measure.
Of course in this era of ultra-sensitivity to racist issues, your seller's phrasing seems problematic. But the ability to recognize the difference in cultures is an asset, not a liability.
I get a lot of low effort people who want you to drive everything to them and pay bottom dollar (even though I’m very centrally located). Super annoying.
So you most likely are getting those responses because a large chunk of the CL buyers are in the market for prices at that level. A 20% discount feels like something you can get from the retailer if you just wait for a sale. But I guess, CL is popular enough where if you have the time to wait it out, you might eventually find a a buyer. But still seems insane to me that anyone would take that deal considering the risks.
Also, FWIW, there is no reason you can't counter offer in those cases. Considering the amount of time and effort it takes to meet in person, it is probably better that the price be pre-negotiated via e-mail before meeting in person. I certainly would never show up in person and try to get a lower price on the spot. The few times I have lowballed via e-mail (I was/am looking for a really niche item, and the only suitable listing has been sitting on CL for weeks) I got counter offered. It was still too high for my tastes, but the listing is still there so I might try again in a few weeks!
"$800 firm" means something. The alternative to "sell at a fair price on both sides" is "no sale", not "sell at a stupid price." I kept the camera and still use it instead. I was getting rid of it because it wasn't 100% what I wanted in my studio space, but it's fine (just not delightful) as a B or a C camera; 80% of what I could optimally do with a different model is worth way more than taking an extra $300 bath. Eventually I'll sell on eBay and get what I'm looking for that way--I didn't want to bother with shipping, but wasting my time with unserious offers makes that a lot more appealing.
(And we aren't even getting into the significant mental effort of engaging with the ridiculous set of scammers trying to get you to fall for their fake-Zelle-notification stuff.)
I do. Or used to. Then I kinda learned how it all works. If I had an item that could sell for say, 100 on ebay, I'd list it for 80 to get a quick sale without shipping. Then people offering 50 seem rude or crazy to me.
Then I learned to just price it high. So now, that item I'll list for 120, and 'fine, final offer' it to 80 and that works way, way better.
I think people just want to feel like they won, more than about values of items.
Another protip: Never list anything for free. You'll find the worst in society. List it for 5 or 10 dollars, then just tell the buyer it's free when they come.
So I could see a situation where most buyers with actual intent to purchase are only searching in the "Furniture" section. And the chairs in question might not have been nice enough to attract interest from the "flippers" in the free section.
Underpricing something is as bad (or worse) than overpricing it
If I think that chair is worth $50, and you're giving it away ... I think there's something wrong
If I think it's worth $50, and you ask $20 ... I think "he must not want it - this is a great deal!"
It is insane how true this is. If I put something on Craigslist for $10 that I was thinking about throwing away, someone polite will buy it within a week and show up on time. The first time I put something in the "free" section instead, someone sent me a legit hate email because they didn't like the item I was giving away for free... wtf?
Maybe we just set the initial price differently?
Do you consider that to be good faith negotiating?
And maybe you work with them on that and they’re like, “ok but I actually have a commitment tomorrow and can only meet at 3:30am and if there’s a waning crescent moon hovering above us…”
The demands get longer. It’s clear they’re not actually interested. They’re just testing their own waters and are time wasters.
I used to sell bicycles where everyone expects a discount. Not being weak I would risk them walking away. Typically I would explain that we don't have much mark up on actual bikes and would also point out that I had spent a half hour or so on them so they can get the perfect machine. I would also explain to them that next week they would forget the price and that in ten years time they would see the price paid as a bargain.
I would then say that everyone likes a deal and that I could do them lights or a D lock or a helmet. I would explain that he brackets for the lights or the lock can be a faff to get right, and that if they took my deal, then we would get the chosen extras fitted properly and now. Usually this was enough for them to get the free lights, paying for the helmet and D-lock. So, by not being weak and being honest about 'my boss killing me for discounting', I would get full retail plus the upsells and a loysl customer. Nobody walked off with this stance which was great.
Naturally we had mountains of the accessories offered so it would cost $10 - $20 in parts that cost less than trade price.
South Korea has thousands of traditional markets which have been slowly dying for decades - lack of transparent prices is frequently cited as a major reason. Few people want to spend time haggling just to buy a mackerel.
I am NOT a strong negotiator, I'll usually only ask if I'm buying a few things or my checkout price will be greater than ~$200, but just asking will usually be enough. "Can I get a discount" or "can you throw in some of this stuff for free." But even with that, I've been able to get plenty of discounts.
And that expands a TON if you add floor model/open box/dent and ding items. Almost any store will give you a minimum of 10% off on AT LEAST those items.
Places you can negotiate:
* Any car dealership
* Buying houses or real estate
* Renting apartments/houses not managed by multi-city corporations
* Music stores, excluding Guitar Center
* Guitar Center (somewhat)
* Mattress stores
* Furniture stores (that are at least on the level of Ashley furniture) or independent (so no Ikea).
* SaaSes that have sales teams [email them and ask, they often will give discounts if you have a better reason than "I want a discount" which is a pretty low bar. Like student (real student, not I still have my college address 10 years later), military, I'm a poor startup founder and can't afford the full price. <- I've used this a few times pre-revenue]
* Smaller software companies that aren't selling games (email them and ask, they often will give discounts if you have a better reason than "I want a discount" which is a pretty low bar)
* ANY place that sells anything used from slightly used to antiques
* Farmer's markets
* Boutique food stores (this one is kinda iffy unless spending a fair bit)
* Flea markets
* Dentist offices (the approach is different here usually appealing to loyalty discounts, personal hardships, or extra cosmetic type services)
* Mall kiosk vendors oftentimes
* Outside of the US any kind of vendor in a shop that is in a specialized mall (ex. In Seoul in the electronics district, there are malls full of small vendors that have similar inventory as everyone else, you can haggle a ton)
* Any independently owned shop that has most items retailing for >~$50 or average ticket price >~$100.
* Non-chain Restaurants (but I'd generally avoid it unless going high end because margins are usually tiny)
* Pretty much ANY store that hasn't "standardized" itself to death.
* Rental cars
* I could keep going.
Places you can't:
* National chains where the sales staff is minimum wage. Walmart, Best Buy, Target
* Stores selling small-ticket items (average purchase is under $100)
* Online retailers (outside of standard coupons, etc)
* Grocery stores
* Regional/nationally managed rentals.
* I'm having trouble thinking of other places you can't negotiate at least a little at...
The moral of the story is any place with a physical presence MUST charge a considerable markup (40% markup would be in the discount store range of markups) in order to stay in business, so if it is worth their while to make a sale they will haggle.
If they are selling commodity goods or small ticket items it's difficult to make it worth their while to even talk to someone wanting to haggle.
Despite the fact that the store in question usually has pretty crappy service and I avoid them, the customer focus in that interaction increased the chances that I'll go there again in the future.
(Why did I try if I normally don't? It actually started when I misheard the price they said, and I figured why not just roll with it and see what happens?)
We ended up with over 35% off a mower last year because the engine meter had more than .1h (6m) on it, along with some dirt and grass clippings in the mower deck
Brand new (minus 20 minutes of run time and some dirt) with all the warranties intact
in fact I'm so bad at this that it extends to the inability to see prices on items.
If I walk into a shop and notice that it doesn't have prices on items I'll walk out. I do NOT want to be talked into buying something.
The last thing you want to do with a customer like that is remind them they are spending money.
Unless it is something I really need/want, in which case I might have to step out of that comfort zone. But retailers might be surprised by how much I'm willing to do without in order to avoid that!
Negotiating for price still feels very weird to me in most circumstances though.
I reguarly will buy the last of something and end up taking the floor/display model. Usually for a 10-25% discount (very occasionally more on things most people wouldn't touch the floor model on and have a healthy mark up) on the price they have listed.
That and buying a bunch of things and asking for a discount are the best ways to haggle that I've found. If buying 10 things from a shop (not small ticket items or at chain stores with minimum wage employees) it's usally easy for them to throw in the lowest priced items as "freebies".
I saved and saved to get mine in my early 20s, and assumed it's just the price you pay like anywhere else.
About 8 years later, went to same place for my wife and between age and experience I just said 'ah, sounds like too much we'll go elsewhere' and they nearly halved the price. Wish I knew that the first time!
However, don't overdo it. You're highly unlikely to get anywhere trying to negotiate at big box or grocery stores on typical items and likely just annoy the cashier. My brother used to get driven up the wall by people wasting time doing this - noting they were usually foreign people and that may have been how things worked in their native country.
My manager though would always be ready to wheel and deal on big items. He told me eventually they get bonuses based on monthly sales, so would do anything to get them.
Weird dynamic really. So basically you only might get a discount on non busy days when the store manager was in. This is probably why the whole 'Let me talk to the manager' stuff came about in the first place.
If a dealership sells an agreed on number of cars they get a % back on each car purchased, I've heard 5% quoted.
At the end of the financial year, they quite possibly might only be a few cars away from this, and it's a big deal. I was buying a new car, and they were adamant about sticking to the list price, so I walked. A few days later they phoned up offering a STEEP discount (25%), sadly, the one they had in stock wasn't the colour or spec I wanted, and I managed to get another dealership to cut almost as much off. But it goes to show - knowing who you're buying from, knowing how they make their money, and when they need sales quick, and crucially, being ready to walk away, are important.
During those first years they would have paid off all the equipment and sold the treatment to the vast portion of eligible patients.
Congrats for asking! I should try that!
They generally have a discount budget they can use on small items if you buy big items.
E.g, I got my carrying case for free because I bought a switch _and_ two games.
Got delivery and installation free because we bought a stovetop _and_ a fridge.
But it had to be negotiated.
The surgery was super quick, and I could see amazing right away. Then it all went away. I probably slept for 2 or 3 days straight... waking only to take a pain pill and sleep again. I remember looking at the ceiling fan each day and it looking clearer and clearer before my eyes hurt and said pills.
I could finally work but my eyes were super light sensitive and my resolution was trash. I was sitting in a room with no lights, sunglasses, and my laptop screen zoomed way in when I started back at work, and even then kept confusing minus for equals.
In short time it healed and like most things, I forgot the bad and am completely happy.
My wife got Lasik and could see perfectly a few hours later with no side effects.
I guess she doesn't mind that gross eye flap I kept reading about, lol.
In the end, we are both happy with our choices and would do it again in a heartbeat.
My vague understanding of the subject is that everyone just pulls giant numbers out of thin air to start the professional haggling conversation with (presumably) the recipient's insurance adjustment team - who will promptly bring things into the realm of reality they work within. IIUC if insurance is held hostage for a full amount (eg, workplace injury) it might end up a lot lower, while if there's an opportunity for recipient copay (eg, elective surgery) the insurer will punt and say "ok we'll just do $X" - even though the recipient may not realize they can adjust the cost down just as easily as the insurer can.
(I faintly recall reading about someone getting some random procedure done, getting quoted $10k by a doctor in a medical center, following up and going "?!?!?!" and being told by the receptionist or similar that the procedure was really just $300 or so (or similarly less). Something like that. The doctor simply had no idea so pulled a number out of rand().)
I think things started out trying to manage liability and lawsuit funding (and legal can generally be a giant price guide watermark hot air balloon...), but sort of accidentally got permanently associated with "oh that'll be expensive" to the point the whole thing just a self-fulfilling-prophecy-powered perpetual motion machine - and not just that, but one with an ever-widening margin between expectation and reality... that the powers that be are distinctly disincentivized to disentangle in any way shape or form.
So being able to assertively question medical fees, and do it Correctly™, is a definitely-useful skill, albeit one that is categorically tricky to learn (caveat emptor :/)...
But part of it is probably also that I'm very easy going; I'm happy to take whatever it is he's trying to move, and happy to grab chunky ends or other pieces that would be annoying to cut, etc.
Feels like a lesson every gamer with a Steam Sale backlog could stand to learn.
The solution of course is to actively keep in touch with changing market dynamics. The last couple of years have had rapid changes through the shortages and inflation, so you need to consider todays value not yesterdays.
* https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
* https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisi...
https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Iron_price
I prefer shops where they have already offered stock at their best price and refuse to price it lower. One less thing to worry about.
I'm not a Business Major or anything, but I'm guessing the median mark-up on items is 100% (50% profit). Thus if I get a 40% discount on something (like a mattress), the seller is still most likely making a 20% profit.
Well, there's your first problem. A 100% markup will only yield 50% profit if you have no operating costs at all.
India is on a path to digitizing everything from all the mom-pop stores to the random tea-sellers on the corner of every street to even the beggars accepting payments digitally. Yes, India does have a financial infrastructure far better than many developed countries.
I have been on the back-end side of one such digitization effort and have seen the data. Everything that we do, or anyone in the ecosystem does to optimize profit -- end target/product are always those small businesses and the mom-pop stores run by the neighborhood uncle and aunties.
When I buy from the local stores, the small businesses, I try not to negotiate, even when I know I could have and everyone else does. I know they make a tiny more profit, and I'm happy with my decision. If your help (maid, errand boys, others)[1] bought something and might keep the change. You know they kept the difference, but you just ignore it. It is a tiny sum for you but might just be dinner or different snacks for their kids.
I had my experience, and I don't want to be on the other end and be that smart-ass negotiator. My aunt helped me sell edibles during the Indian festival of Holi. In my first year (when I was 6-8 years), I was out-negotiated to reduce price and/or add more that I lost money in the transaction. I believe I cried, and ever since, wherever I can, I try never to take advantage of someone smaller/weaker on the other end of the negotiation.
1. India has a surplus of cheap labor. It is prevalent, affordable (and thus generate employment) for middle-class households to have maids around.
100% this. Sure, you CAN negotiate with the roadside vendors. But please, don't.
On the other hand, did you know you CAN negotiate the room rates at 5-star hotel chains? You definitely should :)
The one situation where I have had a lot of luck "negotiating" with 5-star hotel chains is when I'm already staying there and need to extend. In this case walking up to the front desk is more easier and far more likely to get you a good rate then enduring the hell that is trying to change your reservation online (Marriott, I'm looking at you).
This, just booked an hotel in NYC and on Booking.com was like 20% cheaper than the offer on the hotel website itself (where you had to pay in advance, while in Booking.com you would just pay at the hotel!!). I guess I could negotiate the full hotel price with the hotel, they are adding a ludicrous margin, but not with Booking.com (even if they are adding their good margin anyway).
I'm assuming "edibles" means something different in Indian English... Or you guys are very liberal when it comes to 6 year old drug dealers!
Edit: You got me thinking, what else was I selling. I kinda remember when weed not yet deemed illegal to grow locally (in India) or was I in a neighborhood with lots of them growing around. Seriously, I need to talk to my aunty.
However, at the Farmer's market, there is a lot of price flexibility on products.
It is an excellent life skill to be able to distinguish between markets where prices are fixed and markets where they are flexible.
It frustrates me to no end when someone doesn't understand the word "no".
> Oh, really, you're a small business owner too? Then you should know better.
Honestly I don't mind this. If a video card costs $100 and you're selling at $110 and someone says "I'll give you $50" and makes you devote an hour to the sale, they aren't worth it.
I wondered what I would do if they asked to search my backpack on the way out. My imaginary response was, "No problem. I charge a ten dollar search fee, which of course if fully refundable if you find I've stolen something. If you question my fee, it goes up to twenty bucks, non-refundable."
Alas, I never got a chance to follow through on this, but it was a fun thought experiment!
I just walk by and usually they don't say anything, or if they do, I just reply "No thank you," as I am walking. Only one time a receipt checker actually (literally) yelled out, "That's not fair!" Everyone else just turns their attention to the next customer.
But if a few people were in line, I would just nod and smile and walk on by.
I never had an exit checker question this (they were trained not to!) but I did get a few dirty looks from other customers.
Sorry friends, it's not my fault if you don't know the rules. ;-)
Even Costco couldn't detain me if I didn't let them inspect my cart. But as you noted, they could refuse to let me shop there again.
Of course it would be my loss. Even if nothing else, the membership is worth it for the olive oil!
Did you happen to score any of the 2020 organic Val di Mazara? I've been a huge fan of their Toscana year after year, but the Val di Mazara is something else. Such a delightful peppery oil. I hope they get it again in the next harvest.
https://kfor.com/news/man-suing-costco-for-670000-after-refu...
The fact that you think they don't have the right, even if you are correct, does not mean it won't happen.
If an exit checker ever did say "Wait! Stop!" of course I would be friendly and let them check my receipt.
This would be the simplest solution, as my goal was not to prove a point about my rights, but simply to exit the store in an expeditious way with the merchandise I paid for.
But they never did question me, so it was never a situation I had to worry about.
This doesn't happen very often but as far as I can remember I've never been challenged when I do it.
But what I find really interesting is: based on what I've written above, isn't it trivially easy to guess my skin color?
Those security devices are generally there to scare potential thieves not actually detain or prevent them from leaving, so your anecdote doesn’t actually show anything interesting.
Nope. Maybe it would be if I the reader were in a country where people are stopped exiting a store based on race, but thankfully the vast majority of the world isn't like that.
But many of the comments on here have been anti-haggling, which is another way to say "Anti-negotiation". The problem I see isn't negotiation but instead how the negotiation takes place.
Let's take this computer store as an example. If you're one customer and you're making a single purchase- this is a simple transactional relationship and it behooves the store to optimize against such customers.
But if you are a customer who has been buying from this store for 10 years and using them for all the computer needs of a small business, presumably they've built a relationship up, in which case the computer store should know that they're gaining a loyal high-volume customer- a valuable asset indeed.
This means they can negotiate on many things, price being only one. They could negotiate on a barter of services, or they could negotiate on a personal relationship that's built up, or they could negotiate on service.
A good negotiation rarely happens in a single transaction.
I for one won't even touch this shop unless absolutely necessary. There are tons of alternatives online/offline. Good luck with your business.
They have seen me before, and they will often give me a little discount or throw some new thing into my bag to try.
Maybe I could get an extra buck or two off, but I have it pretty easy as a software developer working from home.
Farming and selling at farmer's markets is hard work. If I don't get the very best price, I figure that's a little tip for them.
Of course if I were buying in quantity I might see it differently. But for the bit of produce I buy, I'm happy to pay for quality.
And I bet that if I needed a larger quantity, they would offer me a good deal.
Part of negotiating is building relationships.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I really enjoyed that strange grocery story. Just offering a related perspective.
In a farmer's market, they probably throw away half the produce, the margin is more in the quantity of goods than in the price, so it would always be better to try to get more goods for free than to put price down!
I don't think that any modern farm can sustain itself on farmers markets alone except when it's a hobby farm.
Everything not sold there will be sold to supermarkets in bulk. Farmer's markets are just a nice cherry on top where the margins are higher.
Put into that context, there is absolutely a bottom to the price it is worth selling at. If you are offering less than its value as chicken food, we won't sell. Admittedly, that is still pretty cheap.
Also, a box of veg that was made well and truly unsaleable by a day at market would be thrown in the compost to be turned into next year's fertilizer.
The place I worked had ~10 acres in cultivation and grossed $200 - 300k. Their kids have college funds.
The produce has already been picked; it's not like they can take it back and re-plant it. They will most probably just sell it in bulk to some mom-n-pop grocery store and head back to their farms. So you can score some really nice deals.
I did this when I was tight on cash for a month or two and needed to survive on the more bare minimum budget.
That is such an insightful comment; thank you!
And it's the best kind of negotiating. Not only do you get a good deal, it's a win for the farmer too.
I know many and they all complain about that rich assholes that do this thinking the food is just going to get thrown away.
Unless they invented some time-travel machine, it's impossible. Most farmers markets around these parts have similar hours: 9AM to 2PM or so.
So, if the farmer leaves the market at 2PM, where will they go? No farmers market is open after 2PM.
There goes your little theory.
Pro-tip: stop treating farmers like children who don't know what they're doing. You city people think you know it all, when in reality, you don't.
Can you please leave out the insults and adversarial style?
We try for respectful and polite conversation here, even when we disagree on something. That way we can learn from each other.
From the site guidelines:
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Thanks, and I look forward to reading more of your insights!
Even if there is no price flexibility, the employee will often agree to sell you a cake for full price then give you a cake of similar value he was about to put in the trash for free. If they know you always tip and can convince themselves that their employer is also winning, they are highly incentivised to agree.
Sometimes people in a job like this will take the un-eaten cakes home, but in the end they can only find a home for so much free cake.
You clearly don’t know anything about how they operate.
You do know the vendors go to multiple farmers markets, right? You’re not saving anything from waste. Unless your particular farmers market is the last stop for that vendor, you’ll piss them off.
You are ASSUMING that I offered them less money.
You are ASSUMING that I somehow forced them to do something they wouldn't do otherwise.
Reality is, they themselves offer great deals on whatever is left. No coercion required.
And last time I checked, it was a free world: I'm free to take their deal or not, and they're free to offer me one, or not.
And by the way: I learnt of this trick from farmers themselves.
And the price flexibility increases as closing time nears!
As you can learn from @SarahTaber_bww, they're also the most likely to use slave labor because small businesses can't afford HR departments.
Also, "millionaire" seems a bit misleading here. A family farm that's passed down might have a million in assets, but that gets eaten up quickly when you count land, vehicles, livestock, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean someone is living like a king with dispensable income.
However, I'm definitely ignorant about the data when it comes to this, so I'll take a closer look!
My hypothesis is that if they’re big enough they don’t need to deal with the small quantities at farmers markets.
And car dealerships, especially the chains are absolutely not in the same bucket.
I've always assumed prices at retail shops are fixed, because, for the brief (and horrible) period of time _I_ worked retail, prices are set by corporate...
Any suggestions? Advice? Links? Primers?
I've negotiated my whole life for salary and consulting rate, but never negotiated anything else.
Additionally, for anyone reading this that doesn't know it, you CAN negotiate AirBNB rates, and often do it in a way where you AND the host are happier. I didn't know this until being with someone who runs several top-tier AirBNB houses.
Some AirBNB hosts would be happier letting you stay for a few days "officially" (to make sure you're not crazy or a jerk), and then extend the reservation in cash. Or book the reservation for a long duration, then shorten it once you check in.
It varies from location to location but we sometimes offered guests a 15% off discount if paid in cash, frequently it worked out that we got the same amount.
It's too much mental effort and I don't find there's any mental reward to the process. It doesn't feel like I got "a deal" it feels like the business or individual I negotiated with is probably trying to rip me off, and probably succeeded.
I'll get the best price by businesses competing with each other for my custom. Or I won't. Either way 'haggling' is alien to me and I prefer the world to be more straightforward.
Turns out if I bought a minimum amount they were willing to give me a significant discount - much better than the sale pirce, and the minimum amount wasn't that much.
I may start doing this a lot - just email and ask for a coupon.